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sythmaster
12-08-2010, 11:50 AM
This idea came to me while reading a section of ToM. It's more of a thought experiment than a full blown question, because the issue is set aside in the book (i.e. I'm not expecting this to be of use to the last book in series, but it's a cool idea).

Tower of Midnight Ch. 40 A Making p.612
"Wise Ones, I need a circle," Neald said urgently. "Now. Don't argue! I need it!"

Here's the Asha'man calls for the Wise Ones to link with him, assumedly because he needed access to more power. The part that made me think was that what if that was a group of Aes Sedai? (Masuri actually is present in the scene, however I will not assume she decided to link with the Wise Ones - even though she was one of the ones practicing linking earlier in the book)


from WoT Wiki
The Three Oaths are as follows:
1. To speak no word that is not true
2. To make no weapon with which one man may kill another
3. Never to use the One Power as a weapon except against Shadowspawn, or in the last extreme defense of her life, the life of her Warder or another Aes Sedai

The scene with Perrin obviously breaks Oath 2. (He made a war hammer with the help of a linked group of saidin/saidar users)

This, to me, leads to 3 explanations of how it might work:


That Aes Sedai is/are of the Black.

This could easily be the best and simplest explanation.

This scene would be a special circumstance due to the fact that no one (including Perrin) knew what was being made at that point in time.

This would seem plausible given the original scenario, however once they 'figure out' what their channeling is being used for, they'd fall into sputtering fits since they can't stop. (Like the time the Aes Sedai were questioning one of the Salidar spies and conflicting oaths (not lying and the added one of obedience) caused her to stop breathing.

That by letting the Asha'man (or some other non-bound channeller) lead the circle, those bound are no longer in control of the weaves and therefore, can participate in an activity that could break Oath 2 or 3.

Here is the interesting scenario. And the 2nd explanation can be placed here as well with some caveats, like the Aes Sedai in the group turn around or become blind-folded.

One might argue against this and go "Aha! But that's just like how the a'dam's work and the Seanchan can't do anything productive with the Aes Sedai they have leased!"

The counter to that, is that in the vast majority of PoV's of a damane chanelling, the sul'dam virtually always has the damane herself create the weaves. While some sul'dam will claim they can 'sense' what their damane is doing, they don't actively modify it (to my recollection).

As to why this is interesting, this loop hole can lead to things such as - powerwrought blade factory for Tar Valon (given an Asha'man Warder leads) so that all their Warder (and possibly Tower Guards) are properly equipped again, captured Aes Sedai becoming useful in War for the Seanchan, 'First Strike' or 'Retribution' capabilities for the Aes Sedai. I'm sure there might be a few other uses or examples as well.

Davian93
12-08-2010, 12:13 PM
RJ stated that AS can't break thet Oaths even in a Circle...thus, it wouldn't work. Clearly, Masuri was thus unable to participate in the Circle for Perrin's Hammer.

sythmaster
12-08-2010, 12:25 PM
Ah, that makes sense.

It still seems odd though since the 'lying' part is relative to what that Aes Sedai perceives as 'truth'.

Seems that that idea can be extrapolated to the other Oaths. (i.e. An Aes Sedai can make a pencil. The pencil can kill another man, but the Aes Sedai did not intend it to be a weapon).


But if it came straight from RJ, then that's that.

Squocka
12-11-2010, 10:45 PM
Hmm Interesting, I didn't know about the RJ quote but does that mean that her section of the power wouldn't be used.

Pencil yes they could make as i think it is still perceived does the Aes Sedai conside it a weapon exactly like the lying oath.

They could also make a smithy hammer if they believed it not a weapon used to kill as it is used in a forge.

GonzoTheGreat
12-12-2010, 05:15 AM
Interesting question: would an Aiel AS be able to fashion a Power wrought spear?
Their aversion against swords is that they are "weapons to kill other people", which is precisely what that Oath prohibits making. But spears can be used for other purposes (hunting food, picking flowers, whatever it is an Aiel does with it when she's not fighting).

Squocka
12-12-2010, 05:55 AM
Interesting question: would an Aiel AS be able to fashion a Power wrought spear?
Their aversion against swords is that they are "weapons to kill other people", which is precisely what that Oath prohibits making. But spears can be used for other purposes (hunting food, picking flowers, whatever it is an Aiel does with it when she's not fighting).

Maiden's Kiss

That's a great thought though, i guess it depends on their mindset and justification