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Terez
01-03-2011, 05:28 PM
We've been looking forward to Jan. 1 for some time because Brandon promised that was when he would put his WoT head back on. First task is a re-read; Brandon hasn't done one since he first started working on WoT three years ago. Of course, you can just follow @BrandonSandrson to see his tweets, but you could also join in his re-read using the #wotrr hashtag. Because we all probably need one, right? :)

Davian93
01-03-2011, 07:17 PM
We've been looking forward to Jan. 1 for some time because Brandon promised that was when he would put his WoT head back on. First task is a re-read; Brandon hasn't done one since he first started working on WoT three years ago. Of course, you can just follow @BrandonSandrson to see his tweets, but you could also join in his re-read using the #wotrr hashtag. Because we all probably need one, right? :)

Nope...I've committed all 14 books to memory.

Yeah, its probably time for a reread. I did read about half of tEotW maybe a month ago before moving on to other books.

jana
01-03-2011, 08:14 PM
I'm not sure if or how this is related, but this thread depressed me because I remembered again that we have one book left.

klye
01-03-2011, 11:30 PM
I'm not a HCFF. I thought I was. But brandons post that their is an extra person on the cover of EoTW (an inside jacket) as forced me to proclaim by ignorance.


So.... WHO is this extra person? Why is it an easter egg??

Terez
01-03-2011, 11:46 PM
Here's the full exchange:

Brandon (http://twitter.com/#%21/BrandonSandrson/status/22044325193981952)
Reading the start of EOTW reminds me that there's an extra person in the cover art. (More obvious in the secondary, inside piece, I think.)
Brandon (http://twitter.com/#%21/BrandonSandrson/status/22045173202558976)
HCFFs already know who that person is, but it's a fun easter egg to know that there's a story behind that extra figure.
Brandon (http://twitter.com/#%21/BrandonSandrson/status/22047050354925568)
Mr. Jordan wrote a large chunk of EotW with a fourth Two Rivers lad going along with Perrin, Mat, and Rand. Was to be a major character.
Brandon (http://twitter.com/#%21/BrandonSandrson/status/22047626132197376)
Harriet talked him out of it, pointing out that the 4th lad never did anything useful. @theoryland (http://twitter.com/theoryland), do you guys have a good thread on him?
Terez (http://twitter.com/#%21/Terez27/status/22055137044336640)
Nah, nothing to talk about really. But here is RJ saying that: http://bit.ly/RJ-BN2000
Brandon (http://twitter.com/#%21/BrandonSandrson/status/22055914840260608)
I've asked Harriet if she could dig up any of the old manuscript with the Fourth ta'veren in it, but she's not certain they have any.
Brandon (http://twitter.com/#%21/BrandonSandrson/status/22056380286369792)
She said she thinks he was Dannil, but couldn't remember for certain. Many think he was Ewin--a good guess and a possibility.
Brandon (http://twitter.com/#%21/BrandonSandrson/status/22057457454948352)
Cover art was commissioned when he was still a main character, and it was too late to change it when he was removed.
Brandon (http://twitter.com/#%21/BrandonSandrson/status/22061585581219840)
Looks like the Fourth ta'veren was Dannil, in another form: http://bit.ly/h0iDIO (Look for Liandra's question.) [I find it amusing that Brandon went to the trouble to change my link to something Hoid-related.]

kasper11
01-04-2011, 02:51 PM
So....we have this from Brandon today...
"WoT Easter Egg: there's an easily overlooked line in the EotW prologue which gives huge foreshadowing of things Rand can do in TofM."

Could it have to do with the song? When Ishy first shows up, LTT asks if he has the Voice and will participate in the Singing. Does Rand have the Voice?

Crispin's Crispian
01-04-2011, 03:43 PM
So....we have this from Brandon today...
"WoT Easter Egg: there's an easily overlooked line in the EotW prologue which gives huge foreshadowing of things Rand can do in TofM."

Could it have to do with the song? When Ishy first shows up, LTT asks if he has the Voice and will participate in the Singing. Does Rand have the Voice?

I don't recall much singing in ToM. Unless his regrowing the orchard's fruit is related to that.

Just rereading the Prologue on Google. The only other thing I see is that right after Lews Therin travels away from his home, he senses that there are no people around for miles.

But I don't recall anything like that in ToM either.

Terez
01-04-2011, 03:46 PM
That was it. I will have to look through TOM again to be sure, but I always argued that it had to do with how Rand could Travel directly to Mat's tent without harming him, and the Chosen can do the same, but other people have to Travel to a specific spot set aside for Traveling to avoid harming people, or a hundred miles outside a city, etc.

Kimon
01-04-2011, 03:54 PM
So....we have this from Brandon today...
"WoT Easter Egg: there's an easily overlooked line in the EotW prologue which gives huge foreshadowing of things Rand can do in TofM."

Could it have to do with the song? When Ishy first shows up, LTT asks if he has the Voice and will participate in the Singing. Does Rand have the Voice?

Just to clarify, foreshadowing of ToM or of AMoL? If ToM, well Rand does fulfill the Fisher King, and the concept that the land and the king are one. Of course, he never really had to sing to the land, but it did cause the green things to grow, and while the valleys didn't exactly give forth lambs, it did at least give forth apples.

Not sure how that could be construed as easily overlooked though.

Edit: apparently I spent so much time re-writing this that Terez and Crispin beat me to the punch.

FelixPax
01-04-2011, 04:19 PM
The quotation of L.T.T. in the prologue of EotW book, directly tells readers that Tar Valon did not exist at the end of the 2nd Age--just before Dragonmount was created. When taken together with a quotation found in Lord of Chaos, tell reads that "Great Arvalon" will exist in the future, in the Fourth Age.

The lions sing and the hills take flight.
The moon by day and the sun by night.
Blind woman, deaf man, jackdaw fool.
Let the Lord of Chaos rule.

-chant from a children's game
heard in Great Arvalon,
The Fourth Age

Tar Valon is a new city, build in the Third Age.
Dragonmount is near Tar Valon, yet L.T.T. felt no people around.
Thus, Tar Valon did not exist yet.
(Birgitte also remembers the founding of the White Tower, but another source.)


Thus, every quotation with a 'Fourth Age' title is referring to the past.

Kimon
01-04-2011, 04:23 PM
The quotation of L.T.T. in the prologue of EotW book, directly tells readers that Tar Valon did not exist at the end of the 2nd Age--just before Dragonmount was created. When taken together with a quotation found in Lord of Chaos, tell reads that "Great Arvalon" will exist in the future, in the Fourth Age.



Tar Valon is a new city, build in the Third Age.
Dragonmount is near Tar Valon, yet L.T.T. felt no people around.
Thus, Tar Valon did not exist yet.
(Birgitte also remembers the founding of the White Tower, but another source.)


Thus, every quotation with a 'Fourth Age' title is referring to the past.

Yes, but all of that was also very well-known by the readers, or at least should have been. That certainly tells us nothing that was foreshadowing of ToM.

Terez
01-04-2011, 04:26 PM
Brandon (http://twitter.com/#%21/BrandonSandrson/status/22391871980445696)
WoT Easter Egg: there's an easily overlooked line in the EotW prologue which gives huge foreshadowing of things Rand can do in TofM.
Terez (http://twitter.com/#%21/Terez27/status/22392144475979776)
I always thought the fact that Lews Therin could sense that there were no people around for miles was interesting.
Brandon (http://twitter.com/#%21/BrandonSandrson/status/22400729759092737)
I should have guessed that you'd be the only one who would pick out the right line, Terez.
Brandon (http://twitter.com/#%21/BrandonSandrson/status/22406440786329600)
The Easter egg in the prologue has to do with Lews Therin sensing the lack of people around him for miles and miles.

FelixPax
01-04-2011, 05:21 PM
Yes, but all of that was also very well-known by the readers, or at least should have been. That certainly tells us nothing that was foreshadowing of ToM.

You might be surprised at the number of individuals, who disagree with that claim, around this Board.

Robert Jordan hinted at events in the last book in the series, in the very Prologue of EotW.

And the Shadow fell upon the Land, and the World was riven stone from stone. The oceans fled, and the mountains were swallowed up, and the nations were scattered to the eight corners of the World. The moon was as blood, and the sun was as ashes. The seas boiled, and the living envied the dead. All was scattered, and all but memory lost, and one memory above all others, of him who brought the Shadow and the Breaking of the World. And him they named Dragon.

-from Aleth nin Taerin alta Camora,
The Breaking of the World,
Author unknown, the Fourth Age.


Ocean fled
Mountain swallowed
Nations scattered
Moon bleeds
Sun turned to ashes
Seas boil


It directly implies that Egwene will fail to stop Rand from breaking the remaining Seals on the Bore.

But why is he "named Dragon"? Not the "Dragon Reborn"? ;)

More is going on than meets the eye....

Terez
01-04-2011, 07:20 PM
Yay for philosophical conversations with Brandon - you guys are really missing out. :D

Brandon (http://twitter.com/#%21/BrandonSandrson/status/22399171948453888)
Yes, early WoT is very Tolkien influenced. But several original things really stood out to me when I was younger.
Brandon (http://twitter.com/#%21/BrandonSandrson/status/22399656168263680)
1) The magic. 2) Strong female protagonists. 3) A woman 'wizard' figure who was far more human than others I'd seen. 4) Tam lives.
Brandon (http://twitter.com/#%21/BrandonSandrson/status/22400417505742848)
Though I like Gandalf, Dumbledore, Belgarath, & Allanon, I prefer Moiraine as a character. (Actually, Allanon always just annoyed me.)
Bryce Nielsen (http://twitter.com/#%21/shnar/status/22405803512172544)
What about Polgara? :P
Brandon (http://twitter.com/#%21/BrandonSandrson/status/22426430465908736)
Polgara was awesome. Belgarath was pretty cool too, but Moiraine always feels slightly more real than either one to me.
Brandon (http://twitter.com/#%21/BrandonSandrson/status/22426560942309377)
But that's modern Brandon. Teenage Brandon might have thought differently.
Chris Wood (http://twitter.com/#%21/taloncarde/status/22405993161822208)
But which of those early wizards was your favorite? I liked Belgarath, but Eddings was one of my first series.
Phil (http://twitter.com/#%21/monkeysandles/status/22380573649534976)
The WoT names always annoyed me because they're so close to real names. Any chance of dropping a Blixbop into AMOL?
Brandon (http://twitter.com/#%21/BrandonSandrson/status/22401289086312448)
Mr. Jordan did this intentionally, to hint that the WoT world was our world in the future (and the past.)
Brandon (http://twitter.com/#%21/BrandonSandrson/status/22401405872513024)
It's part of the 'feel' of the world. They are close to real names because they ARE real names, just many years removed.
John Stockton (http://twitter.com/#%21/johnnystock/status/22399999501402112)
I was thrown by your "when I was younger" remark until I remembered this series started 20 years ago. Wow.
Brandon (http://twitter.com/#%21/BrandonSandrson/status/22402665560408064)
I started when I was 14 or 15...
tadbo (http://twitter.com/#%21/tadbo/status/22400424703168513)
The females in The Wheel of Time are among the most two dimensional in the history of fantasy.
Brandon (http://twitter.com/#%21/BrandonSandrson/status/22402870649294849)
I disagree. Case in point: Tolkien's female protagonists. (Which was the comparison I was making.)
Brandon (http://twitter.com/#%21/BrandonSandrson/status/22403052635951104)
But even beyond that, you have to remember, this is a society with some skewed gender relationships because of the way magic works.
Brandon (http://twitter.com/#%21/BrandonSandrson/status/22403216335441921)
But Moiraine is hardly 2-d. Neither is Nynaeve. They can be annoying, yes, but that's not the same as 2-d.
tadbo (http://twitter.com/#%21/tadbo/status/22400794783391744)
They scheme, they argue, they tug on their skirts and stamp their feet, or they fall at Rand's feet. Really?
Brandon (http://twitter.com/#%21/BrandonSandrson/status/22405398677954560)
Aviendha is very distinctive. Tuon is very distinctive. Min is very distinctive. Many of the Aes Sedai act as you say, but...
Brandon (http://twitter.com/#%21/BrandonSandrson/status/22405505834029056)
...I see this as an intentional effect of the society they live in.
Zeerak Waseem (http://twitter.com/#%21/zeerakw/status/22401455298183169)
Don't you get annoyed with the females in WoT? The female lead I prefer is Aviendha, the rest are full of themselves.
Brandon (http://twitter.com/#%21/BrandonSandrson/status/22405786214862849)
Oh, I didn't say they didn't annoy me at times. I said they were strong, and I'll add that they are interesting.
Terez (http://twitter.com/#%21/Terez27/status/22416715371515904)
WoT females are caricaturish, sometimes stereotypical, but not 2-d. (This from a female.)
tadbo (http://twitter.com/#%21/tadbo/status/22417821027794945)
Yes, caricatures. A better description than 2-d.
Brandon (http://twitter.com/#%21/BrandonSandrson/status/22425807443988480)
@tadbo Well, different people read things differently. If WoT's women didn't work for you, I understand why, though I don't feel the same.
Brandon (http://twitter.com/#%21/BrandonSandrson/status/22425919993946112)
You're not the only one to feel that way.
Brandon (http://twitter.com/#%21/BrandonSandrson/status/22434274552582144)
@Terez I view them more of products of a society where social norms are different, and women have something 'machismo'-like.
Brandon (http://twitter.com/#%21/BrandonSandrson/status/22434444002463744)
It makes them act similar in places, even though when you see into their souls, there is something deeper.
Terez (http://twitter.com/#%21/Terez27/status/22436957187477504)
IMO this is also true, but the caricature part is an important aspect of accepting ALL WoT characters as they are.
Terez (http://twitter.com/#%21/Terez27/status/22437421492731904)
They, like the story itself, are ubertropes. There is more to them than that, just as there is more to the story.
Terez (http://twitter.com/#%21/Terez27/status/22438244872355840)
I mean, have you SEEN the map of Tar Valon (http://www.nucleus.com/%7Edalen/maps/tarvalonmap.gif)? It's supposed to be funny, people. And serious at the same time, of course.
Brandon (http://twitter.com/#%21/BrandonSandrson/status/22442519212072960)
I've wondered about the map for Tar Valon. That..well, that can't be an accident. I've never asked Team Jordan, though.
James Furlong (http://twitter.com/#%21/Lacobus/status/22443851507572736)
Haha! Just clicked on, never noticed THAT before. Hoho!
Brandon (http://twitter.com/#%21/BrandonSandrson/status/22445715808583680)
Needless to say, it wasn't something I noticed when I was a teen.
Terez (http://twitter.com/#%21/Terez27/status/22448502361563136)
Someone asked RJ about it. Sort of. His answer was hilarious. http://bit.ly/g9vV0O
KOD book tour, Jarrod reporting (http://bit.ly/g9vV0O%20):
Eventually Mr. Jordan turned to his quest of finding females that wanted some questions answered [RJ always said the females ask the dirty questions] and got a good one when a lady asked why the most powerful women in the world get their power in a pale, white shaft. The answer was “If you can’t grasp the symbolism, my dear… Because I thought about having them have their center of power be a hole in the ground and I thought it wasn’t really going to be as significant. It wasn’t going to stand out and have people say ‘Wow, Gee…look at that on the horizon’ You sorta have to walk to the edge and say ‘Welp, don’t wanna fall off into that, now do you?”
Richard Fife (http://twitter.com/#%21/RichardFife/status/22458042155016192)
Ya know, for some odd reason, I never really /saw/ the map of Tar Valon. Now I'll never unsee it...
Right after that I got email notifications that Brandon and Richard Fife are now following me on Twitter, lol.

Belazamon
01-05-2011, 12:52 AM
But why is he "named Dragon"? Not the "Dragon Reborn"? ;)

More is going on than meets the eye....
Because it's about the end of the Second Age, not the end of the Third Age. Hence why it's named "The Breaking Of The World."

Not that I expect you to grasp this any better than the last time I explained it to you, Felix.

Res_Ipsa
01-05-2011, 01:28 AM
Brandon (http://twitter.com/#%21/BrandonSandrson/status/22391871980445696)
WoT Easter Egg: there's an easily overlooked line in the EotW prologue which gives huge foreshadowing of things Rand can do in TofM.
Terez (http://twitter.com/#%21/Terez27/status/22392144475979776)
I always thought the fact that Lews Therin could sense that there were no people around for miles was interesting.
Brandon (http://twitter.com/#%21/BrandonSandrson/status/22400729759092737)
I should have guessed that you'd be the only one who would pick out the right line, Terez.
Brandon (http://twitter.com/#%21/BrandonSandrson/status/22406440786329600)
The Easter egg in the prologue has to do with Lews Therin sensing the lack of people around him for miles and miles.

Well Brandon stated it was important but unless there is some sort of Deus Ex Machina for the WoT End I cannot imagine how it would significantly impact Rand, I do not mind being enlightened though.

jana
01-05-2011, 01:51 AM
I've done my part by spamming him about Moiraine.

and I requested that we dwell on the scene where Moiraine ate "as tidily as if they were not squatting on bare stone quite literally in the middle of nowhere."


I don't know why but that always made me laugh. She'll probably walk to Shayol Ghul "as if she's on a shopping trip to Target to find hand towels."

GonzoTheGreat
01-05-2011, 05:23 AM
[SIZE=2][FONT=verdana]Brandon (http://twitter.com/#%21/BrandonSandrson/status/22391871980445696)
WoT Easter Egg: there's an easily overlooked line in the EotW prologue which gives huge foreshadowing of things Rand can do in TofM.Found it:
Lews Therin raised his head, and the black-clad man took an involuntary step back from that gaze.Yes, it is indeed obvious, now that it's been pointed out. :D

Edited to correct fairly relevant typo.

Basel Gill
01-05-2011, 08:05 AM
I honestly never really thought about the map of Tar Valon...hmmm.

Crispin's Crispian
01-05-2011, 11:41 AM
Brandon (http://twitter.com/#%21/BrandonSandrson/status/22391871980445696)
WoT Easter Egg: there's an easily overlooked line in the EotW prologue which gives huge foreshadowing of things Rand can do in TofM.
Terez (http://twitter.com/#%21/Terez27/status/22392144475979776)
I always thought the fact that Lews Therin could sense that there were no people around for miles was interesting.
Brandon (http://twitter.com/#%21/BrandonSandrson/status/22400729759092737)
I should have guessed that you'd be the only one who would pick out the right line, Terez.
Brandon (http://twitter.com/#%21/BrandonSandrson/status/22406440786329600)
The Easter egg in the prologue has to do with Lews Therin sensing the lack of people around him for miles and miles.
Boo. I picked it out in two minutes of rereading the Prologue. So what was it foreshadowing in ToM? His trip to meet the Borderlanders?

FelixPax
01-05-2011, 12:48 PM
I honestly never really thought about the map of Tar Valon...hmmm.

Did you get the hint, about the Tar Valon map?
Perhaps this Brandon Sanderson twitter message will help! :eek:

@goldeneyez07 Hm. How to do this without going places I don't care to go... Maybe a link will suffice. http://bit.ly/gMSLt6

Source (http://twitter.com/#!/BrandonSandrson/status/22724412625129472)

Terez
01-05-2011, 01:40 PM
lol, yeah I just added that one. Great way to end the convo. :) Look Felix, I added you to the convo even though Brandon never responded to you!

torquemada
01-05-2011, 07:47 PM
Right after that I got email notifications that Brandon and http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/smile.gifRichard Fife are now following me on Twitter, lol.

Wait....wait..wait, let me get this straight. Terez posts many interesting theories and insights, not a twitter follower. Terez points out the Tar Valon map and *BAM* followed. I find this hugely comical. I never knew the sound of lost innocence was same sound a keyboard makes lol.

Well done T. For your next trick please explain to him what easing the badger means because by his use of the phrase in ToM I don't think he quite gets it. Either that or I don't which is possible.