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View Full Version : How Rand is going to get to Shayol Ghul?


looqas
01-04-2011, 01:59 AM
I've been wondering about this for a while. So instead of this (http://www.youtube.com/user/HISHEdotcom#p/search/0/1yqVD0swvWU), i.e. Traveling there directly does not work. I think the effects around the SG are somehow dreamspiky in a sense that DO has the key that allows Traveling there.

So how is Rand going to get there and how much people is he going to bring with him?

My personal opinion is that they Travel somewhere in the vicinity and then the Rand's forces clear a pathway for him to do whatever needs to be done. I would say he brings only channelers...

padfoot89
01-04-2011, 07:42 AM
He'll use whichever way Lews Therin used to get there the first time.

GonzoTheGreat
01-04-2011, 09:18 AM
He'll use whichever way Lews Therin used to get there the first time.Suddenly I have the A-team music in my head, and a vision of Rand, Mat and Perrin diving into a shed in order to fit one of those steam engines onto a Tinker wagon.

FelixPax
01-04-2011, 09:28 AM
Options:

Traveling -- Problem: Wards set-up every where. Once triggered Dreadlords nuke all locations.
Skimming -- Problem: Same as with Traveling.
Portal Stone -- Problem: Too few channelers are powerful to be able use them.
Flying -- Problem: Where are the large number of Birds? Who controls them?
Dreaming -- Problem: Can whole Aiel Clans Dream themselves to Shayol Ghul? Or can Rand, Egwene just re-create a big Dreaming Gateway and exit?


Out of the five options, Flying & Dreaming... are the most likely in some combination, I suspect.


Walking or Stream Wagoning is not a good option... unless one is the former creature known as Padan Fain Mordeth. He really does need a new name, like Prince once did. ;)

Juan
01-04-2011, 02:43 PM
Magic.

Herid Fel
01-04-2011, 07:15 PM
I would assume traveling. I don't really think that the DO wants to prevent the event. Its misguided captains wanted to cut Rand down, but not the DO (outside of the hours when Rand's cleansing of the taint was in process and still in question.)

Belazamon
01-05-2011, 12:45 AM
Bela, of course.

Much like Elza, she will ensure that Rand makes his appointment with destiny.

subwoofer
01-05-2011, 03:47 PM
he could always call a cab....

not sure how large the fare would be. Maybe he could get a "saving the world" discount. Or haggle for a flat rate.

Rand al'Fain
01-06-2011, 01:55 AM
He's going to go the Lord of the Rings route and travel with 8 other guys. Loial subs in for Legolas, etc. Though, Thom already did his "drop into the abyss like Gandolf and tell the others to run" thing with charging the Myrrdraal in the first book.

GonzoTheGreat
01-06-2011, 04:44 AM
Boromir is gonna get a bit of a surprise when he tries to grab the ring, I fear.

Belazamon
01-06-2011, 01:58 PM
Boromir is gonna get a bit of a surprise when he tries to grab the ring, I fear.
Min will kill him if he tries anything.

subwoofer
01-06-2011, 04:43 PM
He's going to go the Lord of the Rings route and travel with 8 other guys. Loial subs in for Legolas, etc.

Wait a tick- 400lb ogre type person = pointy eared elf with fair complexion and slight frame??

*rubs eyes*

I musta missed something here... I didn't know Legolas was keeping a journal.

Belazamon
01-06-2011, 09:28 PM
I musta missed something here... I didn't know Legolas was keeping a journal.
Oh, c'mon, they all were (http://www.ealasaid.com/misc/vsd/).

Juan
01-06-2011, 09:54 PM
@Bela
hahahah nice

alleluia_cone
01-06-2011, 11:20 PM
Suddenly I have the A-team music in my head, and a vision of Rand, Mat and Perrin diving into a shed in order to fit one of those steam engines onto a Tinker wagon.

I'm with Gonzo -- the steam engine invention has a greater purpose!

C'mon, Rand's school has to help the cause at some point.

Weird Harold
01-07-2011, 12:01 AM
I'm with Gonzo -- the steam engine invention has a greater purpose!

C'mon, Rand's school has to help the cause at some point.
Yes, it does:


He gathered Tai'daishar's reins, and abruptly a large wagon full of machinery came into sight, clanking and hissing, wide iron-studded wheels striking sparks from the gray paving stones as it moved along the street as fast as a man could trot. The machinery seemed to sweat steam; a heavy wooden shaft swung up and down pushing another, vertical shaft, and gray woodsmoke drifted from a metal chimney; but there was no sign of a horse, just an odd sort of tiller in the front to turn the wheels. One of the three men standing in the wagon pulled a long cord, and steam rushed in a shrill whistle out of a tube atop a huge iron cylinder. If the onlookers stared in awe and maybe covered their ears, the fork-bearded merchant's team was in no such mood.

Whinnying wildly, they bolted, scattering people as they ran and nearly pitching the man out on his head. Curses pursued them, and several braying mules that galloped off with their drivers in bouncing carts sawing at the reins. Even a few oxen began to lumber along more quickly. Min's astonishment filled the bond.

Controlling the black with his knees-trained as a warhorse, Tai'-daishar responded immediately, though he still snorted-Rand stared in amazement, too. It seemed Master Poel actually had made his steamwagon work. "But how did the thing get to Tear?" he asked the air. The last he had seen, it had been at the Academy of Cairhien. and seizing up every few paces.

"It's called a steamhorse. my Lord," a barefoot, dirty-faced urchin in a ragged shirt said, bouncing on the pavement. Even the sash holding up his baggy breeches seemed as much holes as cloth. "I've seen it nine times! Com here's only seen it seven."

"A steamwagon, Doni," his equally ragged companion put in. "A steamwagon." Neither of them could have been more than ten, and they were gaunt rather than skinny. Their muddy feet, torn shirts and holed breeches meant they came from outside the walls, where the poorest folk lived. Rand had changed a number of laws in Tear, especially those that weighed heavily on the poor, but he had been unable to change everything. He had not even known how to begin. Lews Therin began to maunder on about taxes and money creating jobs, but he might as well have been spilling out words at random for all the sense he made. Rand muted the voice to a buzz, a fly on the other side of a room.

"Four of them hitched together, one behind the other, pulled a hundred wagons all the way from Cairhien," Doni went on, ignoring the other boy. "They covered near a hundred miles every day. my Lord. A hundred miles!"

Com sighed heavily. "There were six of them, Doni, and they only pulled fifty wagons, but they covered more than a hundred miles every day. A hundred and twenty some days, I heard, and it was one of the steam-men said it." Doni turned to scowl at him. the pair of them balling up fists.

"Either way, it's a remarkable achievement," Rand told them quickly, before they could begin trading blows. "Here."

Rand al'Fain
01-08-2011, 02:46 AM
Wait a tick- 400lb ogre type person = pointy eared elf with fair complexion and slight frame??

*rubs eyes*

I musta missed something here... I didn't know Legolas was keeping a journal.

Loial has pointy ears and is a good character that doesn't get as much screen time as he should.

knightofround
01-27-2011, 02:47 AM
It's possible that this could be Cyndane/Lanfear/Mierien's ultimate purpose. Other than Moridin and (maybe) LTT/Mesanna, she's the only person living who might have a clue about how to seal the bore. Now that Rand is in full ta'veran mode and has his LTT memories, it wouldn't surprise me to see her turn away from the shadow.

Even if she can't turn back to the light, it's possible she could play up the whole "evil always turns against itself" motif like Fain. (She's clearly not happy with her post-resurection treatment)

Gareth Tomlinson
01-29-2011, 10:23 PM
I too have been wondering how Rand will get there for some time. I think Demandred thought to himself (or possibly another Forsaken?) in LOC that channeling near Shayol Ghul was insanity. Has anyoneone else discussed why they think this is?

Juan
01-29-2011, 11:19 PM
Well on the True Power used at Shayol Ghul.

RJ
Access to the True Power is a matter of wanting it and the Dark One letting you. NOT black cords. In Prologue to The Eye of the World, we saw Ishamael use the True Power to Heal insanity. The One Power can not be used to Heal insanity. True Power used at Shayol Ghul will fry you instantly.

I'm not sure about the One Power, but we know Lews Therin and the Hundred Companions were able to channel effectively at Shayol Gul.. So it can't be deadly like the True Power at Shayol Ghul is. However, from what I understand/remember the OP at Shayol Ghul is detectable by the DO. So I guess that's not too good of a thing.

GonzoTheGreat
01-30-2011, 04:39 AM
Demandred quote:
He released the One Power immediately, and with the vanished sweetness went the heightened senses that made everything sharper, clearer. The absence of saidinleft him hollow, yet here only a fool would even appear ready to channel. Besides, here only a fool would want to see or smell or feel too clearly.This strongly implies that it would be possible to channel there, even though it does not explicitly say so.

Moghedien quote:
The ledge on which she lay projected above a black-mottled red lake of molten rock where flames the size of men danced and died and reappeared. Overhead, the cavern rose roofless through the mountain to a sky where wild clouds raced, striated red and yellow and black, as if on the winds of time themselves. It was not the dark-clouded sky seen outside on Shayol Ghul. None of that earned a second glance, and not just because she had seen it many times. The Bore into the Great Lord’s place of imprisonment was no closer here than anywhere else in the world, but here she could feel it, here she could bathe in the radiant glory of the Great Lord. The True Power washed around her, so strong here that attempting to channel it would fry her to a cinder. Not that she had any desire to pay the price elsewhere either.This does confirm that channeling the True Power in the Pit of Doom would be quickly lethal. Which means that if they do fight there, then Rand and Moridin will have to use the OP for it.

Weird Harold
01-30-2011, 06:35 AM
I too have been wondering how Rand will get there for some time. I think Demandred thought to himself (or possibly another Forsaken?) in LOC that channeling near Shayol Ghul was insanity. Has anyoneone else discussed why they think this is?

... The Bore into the Great Lordís place of imprisonment was no closer here than anywhere else in the world, but here she could feel it, here she could bathe in the radiant glory of the Great Lord. The True Power washed around her, so strong here that attempting to channel it would fry her to a cinder. Not that she had any desire to pay the price elsewhere either.

I think the mistaken impression that Channeling Saidin or Saidar at Shayol Ghul comes from misreading Moggy's in the scene Gonzo thoughfully posted. That and the perennial confusion between the True Power and True Source.

Demandred's quote is more about being ready to Channel anything in the DO's 'presence.'

Sudbury
01-30-2011, 09:41 AM
My theory of the final battle has people channelling both Saidin and Saidar plus Rand with the True Power through Callandor to make the Bore non-existent. Clearly to do it means Rand is not destroyed as soon as he touches the True Power near the Bore. I am unsure how this fits in with what has been said in this thread.

padfoot89
01-30-2011, 10:40 AM
I don't think Rand will use the TP to seal the Bore. The DO controls access to the TP, why would he give access to someone who is trying to stop him ?
Unless, Rand just needs a quick burst of it and tricks the DO into giving it. I can see a Frodo like situation for Rand where the DO tries to convince him to turn to him.

Marie Curie 7
01-30-2011, 11:38 AM
Demandred's quote is more about being ready to Channel anything in the DO's 'presence.'

Yeah, because the Dark One gets a bit perturbed about that sort of thing. According to RJ:

TOR Questions of the Week, February 2005-July 2005 (http://13depository.blogspot.com/2009/03/tor-questions-of-week.html)

Week 9 Question: We've read in the Forsaken's points of view that channeling in the Pit of Doom would have some...unpleasant...effects. Is this related to the nature of the opposition of the One Power to the True Power or is it the Dark One consciously acting against the channeler? If so, why should the Dark One care?

Robert Jordan Answers: It is a matter of the Dark One consciously acting, though interactions between the One Power and him, the source of the True Power, can be unpredictable. The Dark One is not pleasant. He is also highly distrustful. He...dislikes...things that happen outside his control or not at his order. Call him the ur-control freak. Combine these two facts, and anyone channeling in the Pit of Doom without permission can expect swift punishment on the assumption that failure to ask permission means you intend to do something he won't like. It isn't that he believes anyone can harm him, just that he is in charge, and your failure to ask permission, your presumed intention to do something he wouldn't like, means that your faithfulness quotient has just suffered a severe downturn. Myself, I'd sell you short in a skinny minute.

GonzoTheGreat
01-30-2011, 12:15 PM
Yeah, because the Dark One gets a bit perturbed about that sort of thing. According to RJ:That quote suggests that if Rand channels there without asking (and getting) permission first, he might have a fight on his hands.

Enigma
01-31-2011, 12:51 PM
That quote suggests that if Rand channels there without asking (and getting) permission first, he might have a fight on his hands.

I would have thought that if the Dragon Reborn shows up without immediatly waving a white flag and proclaiming his loyalt to the Shadow he will have a fight on his hands.

It is possible for people to channel near SG. LTT and the hundred companions fought a battle there after all and the Source was only tainted when the seals were put in place so channeling on its own is not dangerous but the forces defending SG probably make the place lethal.

GonzoTheGreat
01-31-2011, 03:04 PM
I would have thought that if the Dragon Reborn shows up without immediatly waving a white flag and proclaiming his loyalt to the Shadow he will have a fight on his hands.Rand could go, disguised as Asmodean. :p

Cor Shan
01-31-2011, 10:23 PM
I don't think Rand will use the TP to seal the Bore. The DO controls access to the TP, why would he give access to someone who is trying to stop him ?
Unless, Rand just needs a quick burst of it and tricks the DO into giving it. I can see a Frodo like situation for Rand where the DO tries to convince him to turn to him.

It's possible because Rand gets his access through Moridin, so it could be possible. Currently, its the only solution left aside from the "Aiel as Living Seal" thing, because just using Saidin/dar you'd end with double tainted source. As it is Rand is probably going to go insane instantly once the Pattern drops Rand's protection once he's done sealing the bore (I mean, LTT didn't get protection post-LB, why should Rand?)