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GonzoTheGreat
01-11-2011, 09:01 AM
Was he Graendaled?
Perrin Aybara had escaped. She felt stunned. Plan after perfect plan had fallen in place. And then . . . he'd escaped. How? The prophecy . . . it had said . . .

That fool Isam, Graendal thought, stuffing the papers in her pack. And that idiot Whitecloak! She was sweating. She shouldn't be sweating.The Whitecloak could be Galad, but I doubt it. I think that it refers to Byar, who ran into Graendal when he was on his way from Falme, to report on what he had seen there.

Daekyras
01-11-2011, 09:10 AM
I've always read it as such. I think there is another quote later on where moridin refers to her putting her hope in a "mad darkfriend" or something to that effect.

I just assume that refers to Byar too.

Enigma
01-11-2011, 09:43 AM
Graendal's darkfriend seems to have been her last fall back in her scheme to kill Perrin so the only Whitecloak that activly tried to kill Perrin was Byar.

Was he a darkfriend from the very begining though or was he turned later? He seeemed to be setting Perrin & co up to be killed while trying to escape in TEotW and at that stage darkfriends were not been run by individual darkfriends and Ishamael who wanted the Dragon alive was not sure if it was Rand, Mat or Perrin so it seems odd that a darkfriend would try to kill Ishamael's prize.

Mort
01-11-2011, 09:54 AM
This has been discussed some before. The opinion I got out of it was that Byar was being used by Graendal. Not necessarily being a DF though, since it's stated somewhere that Graendal like to use compulsion on her evil-doers to have them do stuff. Don't have to be darkfriends for that.

If anyone should be suspected of having a forced will upon them, it would be Byar. His Perrin fascination is clearly in the madness department, of which Compulsion can bring upon most likely.

finn
01-12-2011, 08:11 AM
If anyone should be suspected of having a forced will upon them, it would be Byar. His Perrin fascination is clearly in the madness department, of which Compulsion can bring upon most likely.

I'd say compulsion is the most likely too but Byar was obsessed with Perrin and displayed manic symptoms from the start. Since EotW or TDR at the latest. It's a discrepancy I can't explain.

Fie
01-12-2011, 11:08 AM
Me too. Id say it is highly improbable that he was a darkfriend in the beginning, because in EotW we are repeatedly told, that the creatures of the DO do like killing and inflicting pain and we are repeatedly told, as well, that Byar always talks about killing Perrin/Egwene matter-of-factly, like "it has to be done, hasnt it", not "I want to do it and spit on their graves". Im with the Lord Captain and would just mildly reprimand him for being overzealous (nice new word for my english vocabulary, thanks, Bornhald) but darkfriend I do think not. Im going to watch for signs of a possible change throughout my reread.

Juan
01-12-2011, 11:39 PM
I totally missed that on Byar. I just always assumed he was a crazy overzealous dude.

As I'm looking and thinking this over, my own conclusion is that Byar was neither a Darkfriend, nor did Graendal use compulsion on him. I do think Graendal used him. Byar was so... crazy and filled with hate toward Perrin, that if someone offered him the chance and possibility to kill him, he would. I think this made him very easy to manipulate. But a real manipulation, not the compulsion kind. So yeah I don't think he was a darkfriend, from what we've been told about his zealousness.

@Fie
What's up man?!

Terez
01-13-2011, 12:13 AM
Was he Graendaled?
The Whitecloak could be Galad, but I doubt it. I think that it refers to Byar, who ran into Graendal when he was on his way from Falme, to report on what he had seen there.
Bit slow, are we?

Fie
01-13-2011, 03:43 AM
@Fie
What's up man?!
Hey, Juan.All's smooth, just have to work so much before/around/after christmas so I didn't have much time for recreation on this lovely board... I'm a little bit devastated though as on my reread of EotW I noticed that not only the wolves but Egwene, Perrin, Elyas ate squirrels, not that I'd blame them, it's just, like, you know, if I was in WoTworld, I'd be something like Perrin, just with squirrels, squirrelbrother, tehe. ;) Hope you're doing fine


I think there's still more argument for Byar not being a darkfriend, his relation to Bornhald. He cares very much for people to act around him like they are supposed to, Perrin goes as far as thinking he would stop breathing if Bornhald told him so. Doesn't seem very darkfriendy to me, if he was he wouldn't give a damn and rather manipulate or kill Bornhald and try to take his position than to put him on a pedestal.


Nice quote for the argumentation in previous posts:
"He (Perrin) was sure Egwene still did not believe what Byar told them in that flat voice...But Byar did not really threaten; as if he were talking about getting a drink of water he talked about hot irons and pincers...He did not appear to be trying to frighten them. There was never even a touch of gloating in his eyes. He just did not care if they were frightened or not, if they were tortured or not, if they were alive or not......Byar said emotionlessly...Byar give no sign of dissapointment at not being able to kick her awake; he never did...Byar said dispassionatelessly..."
Ad that goes on and on. In fact, now reading the EotW Byar chapters it goes on SO much that it seems a bit overdone just to prove the point that he is no darkfriend...
Most interestingly I find the following quote from Perrin:
"All the whitecloaks hated him, but that was a human emotion.Byar felt nothing beyond that he should die; there was no hate in it, no emotion at all." (Never mind that just a page before it says "For a change there was something besides disdain or hatred on his face" !)
I'm not quite sure we have yet fully worked out all there is, or was, to Byar, I'll surely give him more than due attention during my reread now :)