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View Full Version : Terez vs a Random Troll Part MCXV


Daekyras
02-26-2011, 11:21 PM
hey finnssss,

i would be interested to read your androl theory. Have you stuck it on the sight somewhere?

Also, i always forget how much fun this particular thread is. Ha ha, people really hate egwene and elayne!

Jonai
02-27-2011, 04:42 PM
hey finnssss,

i would be interested to read your androl theory. Have you stuck it on the sight somewhere?

Also, i always forget how much fun this particular thread is. Ha ha, people really hate egwene and elayne!

Yes, Yes they dooooo. Welcome Finns, and other peoples. Is that where the f*ck is Demandred or what the f*ck is Demandred? lol Good times.

GonzoTheGreat
02-27-2011, 04:51 PM
Is that where the f*ck is Demandred or what the f*ck is Demandred?Could also be whose to f*ck is Demandred.

finnssss
02-27-2011, 05:09 PM
Yes, Yes they dooooo. Welcome Finns, and other peoples. Is that where the f*ck is Demandred or what the f*ck is Demandred? lol Good times.

Is it weird that I actually like Egwene though and it could be who the f*ck is Demandred too, take your pick I guess ;)

Thanks for the welcome but I'll prolly just go back to mostly lurking as I fear there's someone around here that's not going to let me enjoy posting very much.

Either way, great site with some great and maybe a lil crazy folk :D

Terez
02-27-2011, 05:51 PM
Thanks for the welcome but I'll prolly just go back to mostly lurking as I fear there's someone around here that's not going to let me enjoy posting very much.
And yet, knowing that full well, you started posting here again anyway. Must not be too smart. But I'll do my best at DM too. ;)

finnssss
02-27-2011, 06:00 PM
And yet, knowing that full well, you started posting here again anyway. Must not be too smart. But I'll do my best at DM too. ;)

Something to be proud of for sure.

Terez
02-27-2011, 06:11 PM
Oh, all it takes to annoy you is to argue with you, and you provide plenty of opportunity.

finnssss
02-27-2011, 06:28 PM
Hi

Terez
02-28-2011, 01:16 PM
I'm sure if anyone looks over at DM they'll see me having a problem with exactly one person. And why.

finnssss
02-28-2011, 04:44 PM
I'm sure if anyone looks over at DM they'll see me having a problem with exactly one person. And why.

C'mon Terez, I already made an attempt to bury the hatchet of sorts and it all started in discussing a theory I agreed with you on.
I simply thought that the part about Demandred either writing or influencing the writing of "Fog and Steel" might be a stretch and you went ballistic.
Maybe I caught you on a bad day or something but it just escalated from there.

Terez
02-28-2011, 05:08 PM
C'mon Terez, I already made an attempt to bury the hatchet of sorts
Not with the above post, you didn't. If you really wanted to bury the hatchet you should have deleted your post.

and it all started in discussing a theory I agreed with you on.
I simply thought that the part about Demandred either writing or influencing the writing of "Fog and Steel" might be a stretch and you went ballistic. I didn't go ballistic. I just questioned your arguments. And then your arguments got progressively more ridiculous as time went on. I'm still laughing about the one where you tried to use Ajimbura as evidence that all of Seanchan was tribal and therefore uneducated before Luthair invaded (despite evidence to the contrary). You're the only one on DM who has conflated a simple argument with some kind of personal attack.

Juan
02-28-2011, 05:20 PM
I thought there's no way she could be that bad, being a Mod over at TL and all....


Haahahahaha. :P

I love you too Terez.

Terez
02-28-2011, 05:29 PM
Finnssss has gotten pretty light treatment in comparison to you. If I linked you to the arguments we had, you'd probably wonder what the hell he was complaining about.

finnssss
02-28-2011, 05:51 PM
Not with the above post, you didn't. If you really wanted to bury the hatchet you should have deleted your post.

That's fair enough and done.

I didn't go ballistic. I just questioned your arguments. And then your arguments got progressively more ridiculous as time went on. I'm still laughing about the one where you tried to use Ajimbura as evidence that all of Seanchan was tribal and therefore uneducated before Luthair invaded (despite evidence to the contrary). You're the only one on DM who has conflated a simple argument with some kind of personal attack.

I didn't really have an argument for the writing of "fog and Steel", I didn't need one as there was no evidence to suggest Demandred had anything to do with writing it. that really is all I said.

As far as Ajimbura and the tribes, it was just showing how fractured the continent was when HW's armies arrived.
That most people not ruled by channeler dictators were relegated to primitive tribes and that the whole situation didn't make for a very good environment for higher education.
Something I still don't think is an unreasonable conclusion and if you had of debated it instead of flinging insults, we prolly could of come to a reasonable conclusion.

I have no problem with debate but the personal attacks and insults can be left out, agreed?

Terez
02-28-2011, 06:08 PM
I didn't fling any insults until the Ajimbura argument, which went quite differently than you say, and was pretty worthy of an insult. That's just something you need to get used to about me. If you are being an idiot, I won't hesitate to tell you so.

Juan
02-28-2011, 06:09 PM
Lol it's cool. I tease you all the time I suppose it's fair for you to get a few shots in. You need that handicap anyway. :P

Terez
02-28-2011, 06:10 PM
If it makes you feel any better, I hadn't noticed you teasing me. I don't pay attention to you most of the time.

Juan
02-28-2011, 06:14 PM
It's ok. You'll get the hang of reading others' posts eventually. TL isn't that complicated.

Terez
02-28-2011, 10:14 PM
It's a lot less complicated when I ignore certain people's posts.

Jonai
03-01-2011, 12:56 AM
You three crack me up.

GonzoTheGreat
03-01-2011, 04:33 AM
That most people not ruled by channeler dictators were relegated to primitive tribes and that the whole situation didn't make for a very good environment for higher education.
Something I still don't think is an unreasonable conclusion and if you had of debated it instead of flinging insults, we prolly could of come to a reasonable conclusion.Want to debate it?
Fine: how about the Aiel as a counter-example, straight from the books?

They are relegated to primitive tribes that aren't ruled by channeler dictators, yet they still manage to have a level of education which seems better than that of the rural rustics in the Two Rivers.

Jonai
03-01-2011, 04:45 AM
I don't know Gonzo, if you really want to go that route, and I won't necessarily argue, the Two Rivers seems pretty good for the time period(s) the books were modeled after. Not a channeler in sight and everyone can read and write.

GonzoTheGreat
03-01-2011, 04:51 AM
Yes, they were indeed pretty good, yet when the Two Riverians went out into the Big World, they discovered that every one else was better educated. A good example of that is that everyone (including even the Seanchan, apparently) was reasonably familiar with Manetheren and its implications, while they themselves hadn't even heard about it until Moiraine started her speech.
My argument is not that the rustics were totally ignorant, but that the tribespeople were even better educated still.

Jonai
03-01-2011, 04:53 AM
The Aiel definitely have more books, which is pretty funny actually. I think the Two Rivers is definitely the more insular society, which is also funny.

Jonai
03-01-2011, 04:56 AM
Though, I don't know if the "everyone was better educated" moniker really fits. Were they associating with similar villages in other countries? Not really. More like warders, aes sedai, nobles, military officers, that sorta thing. I seem to remember them visiting a few villages and they didn't even have much info on the Aiel War, much less Manetheren.

GonzoTheGreat
03-01-2011, 05:11 AM
Oh, it is true that education was not entirely evenly spread.

But my point still stands that there isn't any actual support for tribal societies having a very low knowledge level in the Third Age. Some may have that, but others will be better educated. And, of course, since there were actually cities in Seanchan when Luthair landed there, at least part of the continent was significantly beyond the tribal stage anyways.

finnssss
03-01-2011, 11:13 AM
Good points but the Aiel and the TR folk haven't been at actual full on war for almost 2700 years straight.
Ajimbura, as an example of the tribes, is not a very educated dude and that's even after his people have been part of the Empire for the last few hundred or so years.

Then the context of what I was arguing against in the first place, that being that the Essanik Cycle not only pre-dated Luthair Paendrag but possibly even the Karaethon Cycle.

All this despite the fact that BS flat out stated in a signing report that the Essanik Cycle is a collection of damane fortellings making it at most only about 1100 years old.
To which her only defense was that she believed BS "mis-stated" himself and I shouldn't put so much stock in signing reports.

I wasn't arguing over whether the people of the continent could read and write or know something of history, it was about their ability or lack thereof to maintain and add to a consolidated work of new foretellings pre-Luthair.

I just didn't feel that was very likely given what we know of the place and if I'm an idiot for those thoughts then so be it ;)

Terez
03-01-2011, 11:44 AM
Good points but the Aiel and the TR folk haven't been at actual full on war for almost 2700 years straight.
Ajimbura, as an example of the tribes, is not a very educated dude and that's even after his people have been part of the Empire for the last few hundred or so years.

Then the context of what I was arguing against in the first place, that being that the Essanik Cycle not only pre-dated Luthair Paendrag but possibly even the Karaethon Cycle.
Ah, but I never made that argument.

All this despite the fact that BS flat out stated in a signing report that the Essanik Cycle is a collection of damane fortellings making it at most only about 1100 years old.
To which her only defense was that she believed BS "mis-stated" himself and I shouldn't put so much stock in signing reports.
All I said was that it was unwise to extrapolate the age of the Essanik Cycle from what Brandon said because it was in excess to the point of the question, so it would be a very easy detail for him to mistake. No one asked how old it was; you just volunteered the information as if it were fact.

I'm an idiot for those thoughts then so be it ;)
You're an idiot for thinking that Ajimbura is evidence for the state of the entire continent pre-Luthair. Ajimbura is only representative of his particular tribe.

wrmusgro
03-01-2011, 01:18 PM
Ah, but I never made that argument.


All I said was that it was unwise to extrapolate the age of the Essanik Cycle from what Brandon said because it was in excess to the point of the question, so it would be a very easy detail for him to mistake. No one asked how old it was; you just volunteered the information as if it were fact.


You're an idiot for thinking that Ajimbura is evidence for the state of the entire continent pre-Luthair. Ajimbura is only representative of his particular tribe.

Nerd Fight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You guys need to do something else with your time other than trying to pwn each other on message boards. Try to get laid or something. :D

finnssss
03-01-2011, 02:47 PM
Ah, but I never made that argument.

Terez wrote:
"They had their own version of the Karaethon Cycle when Luthair showed up, and I wouldn't be surprised to find that the Essanik Cycle predates Luthair as well."

Yeah, I must of read that wrong :rolleyes:


All I said was that it was unwise to extrapolate the age of the Essanik Cycle from what Brandon said because it was in excess to the point of the question, so it would be a very easy detail for him to mistake. No one asked how old it was; you just volunteered the information as if it were fact.

God forbid someone on a theory board would use something from a signing report, that NEVER happens :eek:
I also added twice that you could be right, that BS over stated the context and maybe someone should try and get him to clarify it.


You're an idiot for thinking that Ajimbura is evidence for the state of the entire continent pre-Luthair. Ajimbura is only representative of his particular tribe.

I didn't say the entire continent either but IT IS evidence of at least some of it was below grade.
Then factor in the state of the rest of the continent being a complete mess of shifting Nations often ruled by marath'damane using the One Power whose constant scheming against each other kept most of the continent at War with each other.

Sorry if I'm stretching here but the co-operation needed to record and maintain a consolidated work of new prophecies in that environment seems highly doubtful pre-HW's armies.

Terez
03-01-2011, 09:08 PM
Terez wrote:


Yeah, I must of read that wrong :rolleyes:
You did. Go back and compare it to what you accused me of saying - it's totally different.

I didn't say the entire continent
You did - in fact, your argument depended on the implication.

either but IT IS evidence of at least some of it was below grade.
It is evidence of one tribe.

finnssss
03-01-2011, 09:44 PM
You did. Go back and compare it to what you accused me of saying - it's totally different.

Gotcha, so all that arguing after about there being no proof of the ES only being 1100 years old was what exactly?
...and your argument against it being that BS mis-spoke....I read that all wrong too right :D
Just to get this straight, I was arguing based on what BS actually said and you were arguing against it based on your OPINION that what BS said was wrong.
As long as we have that clear ;)


You did - in fact, your argument depended on the implication.
No I really didn't, maybe you should re-read eh and it was only PART of my argument as I have more than laid out here.


It is evidence of one tribe.

Kadere was describing the Tribes as in plural not just Aj's tribe in the singular.


Nice thread title too, apparently you missed that I never mentioned your name and would of been content to go back to lurking and YOU actually trolled me :p

/hug

Terez
03-01-2011, 10:31 PM
Nice thread title too, apparently you missed that I never mentioned your name and would of been content to go back to lurking and YOU actually trolled me :p
Just because you didn't mention my name doesn't mean anything. You're a troll. And no one cares about you, so you might as well go away. You're too stupid to bother arguing with.

Daekyras
03-02-2011, 10:44 AM
I do not recall starting this thread.

Hmmm,guess i'm losing time again.....;)

Jonai
03-02-2011, 11:16 AM
A mod cut the last couple pages from the intro thread and spliced it into a new thread. So you started it by default. lol

Terez gets laid all the time.

Also...after Brandon tried to tell us that Cyndane was as weak as Siuan and Leane, I lost my confidence in his infallibility. (love you bs)

Terez
03-02-2011, 11:16 AM
Hey, I saw that movie.

nameless
03-02-2011, 12:22 PM
I don't know Gonzo, if you really want to go that route, and I won't necessarily argue, the Two Rivers seems pretty good for the time period(s) the books were modeled after. Not a channeler in sight and everyone can read and write.

Yeah, but any Two Rivers woman who survives the spark is an automatic shoe-in for Wisdom, a position with at least as much power as the mayor, who's the highest elected official. Just cause they don't realize they're putting the channelers in charge doesn't mean they aren't doing it.

Speaking of, why don't the Wisdoms who can listen to the wind ever Slow? Wouldn't the other villagers notice that their doctor was Dorian Grey?

Terez
03-02-2011, 12:26 PM
I've wondered the same thing. I'm guessing most join the Kin or some such - there was a wilder in New Spring, for example. No one cares about them if they don't claim to be Aes Sedai. But I'm guessing most with the spark in the Two Rivers have died? Nynaeve was already slowing when Moiraine found her - that was pointed out a few times. That's why she looked younger than she really was.

Jonai
03-02-2011, 12:38 PM
well 75% of them die at any rate.

Heinz
03-02-2011, 12:56 PM
It is a good point. Even if 75% of them die, it would make those that do live all that more remarkable when a tiny handful of people live to be 300+. I know not many Wisdoms are channelers. IIRC, Nynaeve makes a remark that 'not many Wisdoms can actually listen to the wind'. But even a couple over the span of 1000 years would be stuff of legends in that area.

Terez
03-02-2011, 05:06 PM
They might do like the Kin and move around so as to avoid notice.

finnssss
03-02-2011, 05:45 PM
They might do like the Kin and move around so as to avoid notice.

I vaguely recall mention of exactly this somewhere about Wisdom's (not the Kin) rotating their service between villages or maybe they were just proposing it.
Maybe I'm just thinking of Egwene's thoughts about becoming a Wisdom at another village because they prefer when the Wisdom's aren't actually from that village, I dunno.

I looked around a bit for but couldn't find anything but I'm sure you could find things faster than I could.

Terez
03-02-2011, 05:53 PM
I vaguely recall mention of exactly this somewhere about Wisdom's (not the Kin) rotating their service between villages or maybe they were just proposing it.
There was no mention of Two Rivers women having done it, though Egwene did mention in her first scene of the series (not counting Ravens) that villages Outside often chose women from away. After which Rand of course tells her that nobody ever leaves the Two Rivers. Egwene does not deny it. Of course, we know the history of most of the recent wilders who became Wisdoms or apprentices in the Two Rivers. It may not have happened in living memory, but it seems more likely that Egwene simply isn't old enough, and no one told her. Or maybe Nynaeve told her, but something that happened even only 50 years ago seems irrelevant to Egwene, who is 15-16 or so.

The only apparent problem with that is that there are so many channelers in the Two Rivers, but generally less than 1% are sparkers, and there has been a surge of various talents lately, so maybe it's not so unbelievable.

finnssss
03-02-2011, 05:59 PM
There was no mention of Two Rivers women having done it, though Egwene did mention in her first scene of the series (not counting Ravens) that villages Outside often chose women from away. After which Rand of course tells her that nobody ever leaves the Two Rivers. Egwene does not deny it. Of course, we know the history of most of the recent wilders who became Wisdoms or apprentices in the Two Rivers. It may not have happened in living memory, but it seems more likely that Egwene simply isn't old enough, and no one told her. Or maybe Nynaeve told her, but something that happened even only 50 years ago seems irrelevant to Egwene, who is 15-16 or so.

The only apparent problem with that is that there are so many channelers in the Two Rivers, but generally less than 1% are sparkers, and there has been a surge of various talents lately, so maybe it's not so unbelievable.

Yeah, that's a good point considering the apprentice Wisdom preceding Nynaeve died of what is believed to be channeling sickness.

Terez
03-02-2011, 06:01 PM
And she knew of another one in Deven Ride.

maacaroni
03-03-2011, 04:26 AM
I once got the ride in Devon.

A city called Exeter and a woman called Natasha.

Ahhh the freedom of youth.

Daekyras
03-03-2011, 04:40 AM
terrible mac!

Reminds me of a little ditty:

did you ever have a ride,
did you ever have a ride....
....in a tractor!

Did you ever get a feel,
did you ever get a feel....
....of a fiver!

Etc.

So, so bad.

GonzoTheGreat
03-03-2011, 05:56 AM
They might do like the Kin and move around so as to avoid notice.An idea which might seem to make some sense, if only they themselves had the vaguest idea that it might be needed.

As it is, Nynaeve does not know that there might be anything uncommon about her aging process until after Moiraine spells it out for her.

Which, of course, means that a sparkling Wisdom wouldn't even start to think about moving until people had already started noticing that she looked rather young for a woman celebrating her eleventy-first birthday.

Terez
03-03-2011, 12:37 PM
Right, I just saying that it might have happened to other Wisdoms before, and they might have noticed and decided to move. It should be noticeable no later than around age 40 that she's not aging.

GonzoTheGreat
03-04-2011, 03:51 AM
You have noticed their amazing powers of perception, haven't you?

Besides, in a society with only a few mirrors, other people are more likely to notice things like that before the Wisdom herself does. At which point there will already be a lot of talk on the subject, and moving to another village in the TR won't help all that much anyway.

Terez
03-04-2011, 11:43 AM
The suggestion was that she would move to a village outside the Two Rivers. After all, Nynaeve's knowledge about outside villages choosing Wisdoms from away has to have come from somewhere.

GonzoTheGreat
03-05-2011, 04:28 AM
It could come from the same source that told the Sea Folk that an Aiel woman must kill a man every day.

Spasmodean
03-07-2011, 05:38 PM
It is a good point. Even if 75% of them die, it would make those that do live all that more remarkable when a tiny handful of people live to be 300+. I know not many Wisdoms are channelers. IIRC, Nynaeve makes a remark that 'not many Wisdoms can actually listen to the wind'. But even a couple over the span of 1000 years would be stuff of legends in that area.

However Wisdoms by definition, spend their time around sick people.

Maybe they caught illnesses that killed them?

GonzoTheGreat
03-08-2011, 04:20 AM
However Wisdoms by definition, spend their time around sick people.

Maybe they caught illnesses that killed them?Unlikely, that:
"What's wrong with him?" Egwene asked, and Nynaeve added, "Is it catching? I can still treat him. I don't seem to catch sick, no matter what it is."