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looqas
05-25-2011, 04:17 AM
I've been thinking about this during the recent days. Bonding business that is. Female bonding non-channel males is extensively covered in the books. And there is one example of female channeler bonding a female non-channeler etc...


a short list how it affects

- female channeler -> male (Warder gig) = rather normal relations, but aware of the emotions more plus stamina bonuses

- female channeler -> female (Elayne & Birgitte) = feedback kind of emotions.

- female channeler -> channeler male (AS & ashaman) = similar to warder bond, but can't control the actions of the bonded one, but has Rand gained the Warder perks? I haven't noticed.

- channeler male -> female channeler (Ashaman & AS) = control part better than the vice versa? Not really explained IIRC

- channeler male -> female (ashaman bonds his wife) = similar to warder bond

- channeler male -> channeler male = The only one missing in the series. Maybe Rand bonds Logain. Yeeew! :p

- channeler male -> male, well this is missing too.

- the special bond is Min actually holds Rands bond. The only case to my knowledge where bond holder is a non-channeler.

I wonder if one could bond an Ogier...

and what if, say ashaman bonds a sister who bonds another one. Who controls who, could it even be done, how long a bonding chain you can do?

Terez
05-25-2011, 04:34 AM
female channeler -> male (Warder gig) = rather normal relations, but aware of the emotions more plus stamina bonuses
Also, the female can use the bond to Compel, to degrees.

female channeler -> female (Elayne & Birgitte) = feedback kind of emotions.This is pretty strong, to the point that Elayne acts giddy when Birgitte is drunk.

female channeler -> channeler male (AS & ashaman) = similar to warder bond, but can't control the actions of the bonded one, but has Rand gained the Warder perks? I haven't noticed.Alanna couldn't control Rand, but we're not so sure about the rest of them, like Merise and Narishma, etc. Merise treats Narishma, for example, like any Aes Sedai would treat her Warder, and he accepts it. But we don't know the details of it. Also, Narishma, Flinn, and Manfor were bonded because Cadsuane somehow blackmailed them, so that adds to the confusion.

channeler male -> female channeler (Ashaman & AS) = control part better than the vice versa? Not really explained IIRCIt was explained. Logain and Co. added an 'extra bit' to the wife bond, which was probably much like the Aes Sedai Warder bond. He apologized to Toveine for the 'extra bit' (which on first read I assumed referred to the kiss, but in retrospect it's clear), which automatically compels the Aes Sedai to do what her Asha'man tells her to do. Logain tells Toveine to go have some tea with Gabrelle, and she goes and makes tea even though she doesn't really want any tea, almost without thinking of it. She automatically keeps herself out of Elayne's sight when she and Birgitte visit the Black Tower, because she was ordered not to reveal herself in any way.

It's a huge difference from the Aes Sedai Warder bond because, like Lan said, some Aes Sedai never use the bond to compel. Though it could be that Moiraine did in fact use the bond to compel him from time to time and he just wasn't aware of it; when he first comes to Myrelle, she uses the bond to compel him, and she thinks that she has to use a delicate touch so that he won't be aware of it. Advice from Moiraine, or just common wisdom? But in any case, Logain's 'extra bit' is in some ways more compelling than the Mindtrap.

channeler male -> female (ashaman bonds his wife) = similar to warder bondYeah, and they probably can also use it to compel if they so choose; it's just not automatic. That's assumption, but probably logical.

channeler male -> channeler male = The only one missing in the series. Maybe Rand bonds Logain. Yeeew! :p

- channeler male -> male, well this is missing too.Yeah, I'd like to see it too. Maybe Androl will bond someone. :D

the special bond is Min actually holds Rands bond. The only case to my knowledge where bond holder is a non-channeler.This one is definitely special, but the part that included Min came from the sister-bonding ceremony, which is often used to join non-channelers in a bond (like Bain and Chiad). Elayne took the Warder bond and mixed it with the weaves from the sister-bonding to include Min in the mesh that would be bonded to Rand. The three threads from each of them became one as Elayne changed it into the Warder bond and laid it on Rand.

I wonder if one could bond an Ogier.Check out the interview database (see sig link).

and what if, say ashaman bonds a sister who bonds another one. Who controls who, could it even be done, how long a bonding chain you can do?This is getting kinky.

Lightning
05-25-2011, 05:10 AM
Yeah, and they probably can also use it to compel if they so choose; it's just not automatic. That's assumption, but probably logical.


If I recall correctly this bond (ashaman & wife) was made with the express initial intention of compelling the bonded party.

I remember Grady telling Perrin about it, and saying how some wives and girlfriends were leaving so someone came up with the idea of a bond that exerts control so that they could keep the women with them.

As for a male&male bond, I would imagine it's similar to a female female bond. Shared moods and stuff. Now if both parties are channellers then the issue becomes who is the controller? The logical answer is the one who creates the bond. Same goes for two female channellers.

The Aiel sister bond is balanced because the the bond is made by a third party who is impartial. And it's a weak bond any way. Just creating peripheral awareness.

Zombie Sammael
05-25-2011, 06:19 AM
I wonder if one could bond an Ogier...

and what if, say ashaman bonds a sister who bonds another one. Who controls who, could it even be done, how long a bonding chain you can do?

1. I did check out the interview database, and look what I found:

The Path of Daggers promotional Barnes & Noble Chat - 19 October 1998

Caleyna Sedai from Astoria, OR: Is it possible for an Ogier to be bonded as a Warder? I am not asking if it will happen, just if it is physically possible. We know that Ogier can be fierce warriors, so that shouldn't be a problem. Perhaps the bond could somehow reduce the Longing? An Ogier would make the perfect Warder for a Brown, if the bond were possible.
RJ: Such a bond would be possible, but an Ogier would find it a very strange thing to be asked to do. I can't think of an Ogier on this side of the Aryth Ocean who would be willing to accept.

2. Sounds like the Human Centipede. Only, you know, with warders.

Terez
05-25-2011, 06:30 AM
If I recall correctly this bond (ashaman & wife) was made with the express initial intention of compelling the bonded party.

I remember Grady telling Perrin about it, and saying how some wives and girlfriends were leaving so someone came up with the idea of a bond that exerts control so that they could keep the women with them.
I have no idea where you got this idea from.

Zombie Sammael
05-25-2011, 07:09 AM
I have no idea where you got this idea from.

I originally had the same misunderstanding, as I recall. The glossary is poorly worded were it talks about the bond. It says something along the lines that the bond was used on the WAGs and the same bond, altered to compel obedience, was used on the AS - making it sound like the bond had been altered in the first place to compel obedience, which isn't what it was meant to say - it's meant to say the bond on the AS has been altered from the WAG bond. I do remember the scene with Grady but I don't think he confirmed the misreading of the glossary, just said they were bonding the WAGs.

nameless
05-25-2011, 02:21 PM
Yikes... I don't think we were supposed to interpret Asha'man bonding their wives as a form of subjugation. Most of the women who left did so as soon as their men started channeling, before they had enough skill to weave the bond. Anyone who stayed long enough to be bonded had already decided to stay of their own free will.

hawkeye31
05-29-2011, 12:51 PM
If I recall correctly this bond (ashaman & wife) was made with the express initial intention of compelling the bonded party.

I remember Grady telling Perrin about it, and saying how some wives and girlfriends were leaving so someone came up with the idea of a bond that exerts control so that they could keep the women with them.

Actually, you misremember that quote. Here it is from ACoS, Chapter 27, To Be Alone:

“Her knee hurts,” Perrin said flatly. “Right this minute, it hurts.”

Grady seemed to realize he was staring, and Gaul was too. “It’s something a fellow named Canler worked out. The M’Hael doesn’t like us trying to figure out things on our own, but once it was done . . . ” His slight grimace said perhaps Taim had not been all that easy about it even then. “We think maybe it’s something like the bond between Warders and Aes Sedai. Maybe one in three of us is married; anyway, that’s how many wives stayed instead of running off when they learned what their husbands were. This way, when you’re apart from her, you know she’s all right, and she knows you are. A man likes to know his wife’s safe."

“That he does,” Perrin said. What was Faile up to with those fools?

So it was done to help spouses make sure the other was safe