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themattreborn
05-31-2011, 11:29 AM
Seriously inquiry, not trying to be pervy.

NO SPOILERS PLEASE, I On "The Dragon Reborn" and there's this whole sections where Naynaeve, Egwene and Elayne run into Aviendha and other Aiel Maidens of the spear.

Aviendha then describes their lifestyle, and about how men can not be with one without being with the other and how Egwene and Elayne should become "first sisters"

They claim they do not hate men, but that they're bonded together...whats ppls opinion on this?

As, I said, as of book 3, any insight/references beyond this book, please exclude.

themattreborn
05-31-2011, 11:35 AM
Oh, and I didn't mean "bonded" like a Warden.
What they say is they make a promise to stick to one another and the spear...which seems almost like a marriage between the Maidens.

Terez
05-31-2011, 11:39 AM
You must have missed this:

Elayne looked startled. "I thought you said the Maidens of the Spear were not allowed to have children. I am sure I was taught that." Bain and Chiad exchanged those looks again, as if Elayne had come near truth and yet missed it once more.

"If a Maiden bears a child," Aviendha explained carefully, "she gives the child to the Wise Ones of her sept, and they pass the child to another woman in such a way that none knows whose child it is." She, too, sounded as if she were explaining that stone is hard. "Every woman wants to foster such a child in the hope she may raise He Who Comes With the Dawn."

"Or she may give up the spear and wed the man," Chiad said, and Bain added, "There are sometimes reasons one must give up the spear."
Some of them might be lesbians, but we're given no indication of any throughout the books.

finnssss
05-31-2011, 11:46 AM
Oh, and I didn't mean "bonded" like a Warden.
What they say is they make a promise to stick to one another and the spear...which seems almost like a marriage between the Maidens.


Some do actually become bonded to each other similar to the Warder Bond just like what was performed on Elayne and Avi in WH.

(Still doesn't make them lesbians though.)

themattreborn
05-31-2011, 11:48 AM
yeah, but I mean, they mention that a man can not be with one without being with the other...and then

"Egwene did not know whether to laugh or blush. She kept having an image of her and Elayne sharing the same man." -pg 436.

They're at least bi-sexual but may absolve their "marriage" for a child or love or "other" reasons.

themattreborn
05-31-2011, 11:49 AM
Some do actually become bonded to each other similar to the Warder Bond just like what was performed on Elayne and Avi in WH.

(Still doesn't make them lesbians though.)

Ugh, I haven't reached that part yet!!!!!!!!! lol it's all good tho.

GonzoTheGreat
05-31-2011, 11:51 AM
yeah, but I mean, they mention that a man can not be with one without being with the other...and then

"Egwene did not know whether to laugh or blush. She kept having an image of her and Elayne sharing the same man." -pg 436.

They're at least bi-sexual but may absolve their "marriage" for a child or love or "other" reasons.That is a peculiarity some Aiel women have, not something which is specific to Maidens of the Spear.
Or, in other words: Read And Find Out.

finnssss
05-31-2011, 11:56 AM
Ugh, I haven't reached that part yet!!!!!!!!! lol it's all good tho.


Sorry :(

Terez
05-31-2011, 12:08 PM
There's an implication of possible bisexuality with first-sisters like Bain and Chiad, but it is implication only. There is no evidence that first-sisters or sister-wives are bisexual in any of the books.

In other words, it's possible to have a threesome with two people who do not touch each other. I have done it, with brothers.

David Selig
05-31-2011, 12:14 PM
Some of them might be lesbians, but we're given no indication of any throughout the books.

Minor KoD Spoilers:
One of the Shaido Maidens apparently was a lesbian or at least bi since she had sex with Arrela;
KoD, Ch.5

" Lacile had found her own protector by climbing into the blankets of the Mera’din who had made her gai’shain, and Arrela had done the same with one of the Maidens who had captured her,"

Terez
05-31-2011, 12:25 PM
Ah yeah, I forgot about that. Still, I think that's the only concrete example.

nameless
05-31-2011, 12:43 PM
Seriously inquiry, not trying to be pervy.

NO SPOILERS PLEASE, I On "The Dragon Reborn" and there's this whole sections where Naynaeve, Egwene and Elayne run into Aviendha and other Aiel Maidens of the spear.

Aviendha then describes their lifestyle, and about how men can not be with one without being with the other and how Egwene and Elayne should become "first sisters"

They claim they do not hate men, but that they're bonded together...whats ppls opinion on this?

As, I said, as of book 3, any insight/references beyond this book, please exclude.

A lot of people have a cartoonish idea of lesbians as man-hating Amazons. To his credit, RJ did not depict them as such. Many of his man-hating female characters are straight and most of his lesbian characters get along with men just fine as long as they keep their clothes on. The sister-wife arrangement does not imply bisexuality. They share the man, but that doesn't mean they have to share him at the exact same time. It's probably comparable to real-world polygamist situations, except that in this case it's the womens' prerogative to decide whether or not to have a sister wife.

Egwene blushed because Two Rivers is a prude backwater area, not because anyone was implying a threesome. She blushes at anything remotely naughty at this point in the story.

themattreborn
05-31-2011, 01:08 PM
A lot of people have a cartoonish idea of lesbians as man-hating Amazons.

Egwene blushed because Two Rivers is a prude backwater area, not because anyone was implying a threesome. She blushes at anything remotely naughty at this point in the story.

I wasn't saying lesbians are man haters.
At one point Elayne asks the maidens if they hate men and they say no. I was merely referencing that.
I think Elayne was referencing the Ajah that literally do hate men (is it the Red?).

Egwene is really prudish. Everyone from the Two Rivers is...

It was funny when Mat was w/ Tinkers and losing his mind over their dancing. At this stage in the books, oddly, Mat is seasoned enough where has no problem killing a man (later turns out it's a grayman) but still gets squemish around women.

Rand is in the Dragon Reborn camp, and has a seperate tent to himself...which makes me think he never hooked up with Min. Though she's cuddling w/ him naked at end of Great Hunt.
Yet, he goes off and murders a trader and all her bodyguards for the ride...but too prude for contact lol.

themattreborn
05-31-2011, 01:16 PM
Once again, please no spoilers. Only on page 456 of Dragon Reborn.

Is it just me or do Matt, Perrin and Rand treat Loial like crap?
I can think of several scenes where they're rude to him or cut him off and his eyes-widen and he gets butt-hurt. Maybe it's because he's an Olgier and talks a lot but acts slow. Yet still it seems like everyone else shows him respect cept the 3 Rivers crew.

themattreborn
05-31-2011, 01:25 PM
Not only that, but when they're in the Stedding in Teh Great Hunt, Loial falls smitten with this Olgier girl and Mat laughs about it, saying, "oh ya she's hot man, right"

It's pretty messed up...are Two-Rivers Folk racist against Olgiers?

themattreborn
05-31-2011, 01:30 PM
In other words, it's possible to have a threesome with two people who do not touch each other. I have done it, with brothers.

Um, hope you don't mean, actual brothers. That would be weird even if no contact.

The part in the book suprised me. It seems to me everyone from the Two-Rivers is a virgin, there is absolutely no sexual contact, or behavior. Or kissing. It's all very innocent and suddenly we're talking about threeways lol.

finnssss
05-31-2011, 01:33 PM
I wasn't saying lesbians are man haters.
At one point Elayne asks the maidens if they hate men and they say no. I was merely referencing that.
I think Elayne was referencing the Ajah that literally do hate men (is it the Red?).

Egwene is really prudish. Everyone from the Two Rivers is...

It was funny when Mat was w/ Tinkers and losing his mind over their dancing. At this stage in the books, oddly, Mat is seasoned enough where has no problem killing a man (later turns out it's a grayman) but still gets squemish around women.

Rand is in the Dragon Reborn camp, and has a seperate tent to himself...which makes me think he never hooked up with Min. Though she's cuddling w/ him naked at end of Great Hunt.
Yet, he goes off and murders a trader and all her bodyguards for the ride...but too prude for contact lol.

Not a spoiler this time but that "Trader" was indeed a Darkfriend and the extra corpse he counted afterwards was a Gray Man.
I say it's not a spoiler because the only reason we know that for sure is because RJ confirmed it in one of his Q&A's.
You aren't the only one that found Rand's behavior in that scene a little weird ;)

themattreborn
05-31-2011, 01:36 PM
thanks for clearing that up!

nameless
05-31-2011, 01:39 PM
I wasn't saying lesbians are man haters.
At one point Elayne asks the maidens if they hate men and they say no. I was merely referencing that.
I think Elayne was referencing the Ajah that literally do hate men (is it the Red?).

Egwene is really prudish. Everyone from the Two Rivers is...

It was funny when Mat was w/ Tinkers and losing his mind over their dancing. At this stage in the books, oddly, Mat is seasoned enough where has no problem killing a man (later turns out it's a grayman) but still gets squemish around women.

Rand is in the Dragon Reborn camp, and has a seperate tent to himself...which makes me think he never hooked up with Min. Though she's cuddling w/ him naked at end of Great Hunt.
Yet, he goes off and murders a trader and all her bodyguards for the ride...but too prude for contact lol.

I didn't mean you specifically. It's a general attitude that RJ is going out of his way to discredit by having Elayne get laughed at for making that assumption.

themattreborn
05-31-2011, 01:42 PM
I didn't mean you specifically. It's a general attitude that RJ is going out of his way to discredit by having Elayne get laughed at for making that assumption.

You think so? I guess I could see that.
I read he was a Vietnam helicopter gunner, which was pretty bad-ass. That, and the general attiudes of the Two-Rivers characters kind of made me assume him a more small-town conservative type.

Terez
05-31-2011, 01:53 PM
Um, hope you don't mean, actual brothers.
I do. To each his own. ;)

Terez
05-31-2011, 02:03 PM
Please don't start a new thread for every random thought you have.

Edit: Thread merge. You can use this for all your random thoughts; I'll update the thread title as you read on if it becomes necessary. It's doubtful you'll come up with anything really worth discussing for the old-timers until you finish the books.

nameless
05-31-2011, 02:07 PM
You think so? I guess I could see that.
I read he was a Vietnam helicopter gunner, which was pretty bad-ass. That, and the general attiudes of the Two-Rivers characters kind of made me assume him a more small-town conservative type.

Bad-ass doesn't mean small-minded. If one character repeats a commonly held stereotype and the other characters tell her she's wrong and laugh at her, it's kind of a hint about what the author thinks of the stereotype.

The Unreasoner
05-31-2011, 02:28 PM
What the hell are the point of these threads? I'm beginning to understand why the mods lose their tempers all the time.
There is no evidence supporting the lesbian nature of the maidens. Some would say this means they are not. I do not. However there is evidence supporting at least some of their heterosexuality, and with that I do say they are not, at least as a group.

neurotopia
05-31-2011, 03:23 PM
I'm gonna be a total jerk and toss out a spoiler from Book 6.





Dumbledore dies at the end.

The Unreasoner
05-31-2011, 03:41 PM
.

Rand al'Fain
05-31-2011, 03:55 PM
And Narg becomes a hero of the Light.

Crispin's Crispian
05-31-2011, 05:14 PM
I'm gonna be a total jerk and toss out a spoiler from Book 6.





Dumbledore dies at the end.

WTF? Thanks a lot, asshole--I am about 100 pages to the end of that book! Why the hell would you do that?!






Just kidding. I finished it today.

Terez
05-31-2011, 07:05 PM
What the hell are the point of these threads? I'm beginning to understand why the mods lose their tempers all the time.
Because of annoying noobs like you? ;) Be nice; he's probably just a little over-excited since WoT is so awesome. Some noobs can be properly trained.

Davian93
05-31-2011, 08:03 PM
I do. To each his own. ;)

LOL...and Welcome to Theoryland!

themattreborn
06-02-2011, 01:23 PM
What the hell are the point of these threads? I'm beginning to understand why the mods lose their tempers all the time.
There is no evidence supporting the lesbian nature of the maidens. Some would say this means they are not. I do not. However there is evidence supporting at least some of their heterosexuality, and with that I do say they are not, at least as a group.

May not have read the entire series, but am pretty knowledgeable on lit theory. And, often what is implied, especially subconsciously, is more important than "direct evidence"

themattreborn
06-02-2011, 01:25 PM
Because of annoying noobs like you? ;) Be nice; he's probably just a little over-excited since WoT is so awesome. Some noobs can be properly trained.

hm...kind of sad, i can only lurk in this thread. afraid of spoilers elsewhere. in 6 or so months perhaps!

themattreborn
06-02-2011, 01:29 PM
Some noobs can be properly trained.

You sound like the Amarlyin Seat

themattreborn
06-02-2011, 01:35 PM
Me and my buddy are reading WoT. Other than that, I have no exposure to fans and don't know how to find them in my town. So I git curious what constitutes the typical fan?

What are you guys like?

To break the ice, I'll start by describing myself...

I'm 6'0" and look like a mix of Brad Pitt and Johnny Depp, but more attractive. I'm 27 and have slept wit thousands of women. Money and success seem to just naturally follow me and there is not a single sport I do not accelerate in.

what are you guys like? Or describe the av fan

The Unreasoner
06-02-2011, 02:05 PM
.

Weiramon
06-02-2011, 02:38 PM
And, often what is implied, especially subconsciously, is more important than "direct evidence"

Burn me, that's right! And not just often - always!

Zombie Sammael
06-02-2011, 02:57 PM
You sound like the Amarlyin Seat

As far as this board is concerned, she is the Amyrlin Seat. But she was raised from the red, so watch your step. ;)

BTW, we have a re-read thread/board where your thoughts as a first time reader might be more illuminating. Many of us have forgotten what experiencing these books for the first time is like, and sometimes there are insights in innocence that are overlooked by experience: http://theoryland.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=58

I am presently only one book ahead of you in my own re-read. Welcome to the board.

Terez
06-02-2011, 03:05 PM
As far as this board is concerned, she is the Amyrlin Seat. But she was raised from the red, so watch your step. ;)
I am far from the boss at Theoryland. Tam can squash me at any time if he so chooses. I take the responsibility of keeping things organized and sane in WoT discussion since no one else will do it, and Tam tries to keep me from being overly dictatorial. Half-heartedly, I admit.

Technically, Gonzo or WH or other regulars could step up and do the same, but they don't. Maybe because they don't feel like fighting with me? I don't know; no one tells me anything.

Davian93
06-02-2011, 03:06 PM
I am far from the boss at Theoryland. Tam can squash me at any time if he so chooses. I take the responsibility of keeping things organized and sane in WoT discussion since no one else will do it, and Tam tries to keep me from being overly dictatorial. Half-heartedly, I admit.

Technically, Gonzo or WH or other regulars could step up and do the same, but they don't. Maybe because they don't feel like fighting with me? I don't know; no one tells me anything.

Well, if you ever came to the staff meetings, you'd be in the loop on more stuff...

Jeez.

Terez
06-02-2011, 03:13 PM
Well, if you ever came to the staff meetings, you'd be in the loop on more stuff...

Jeez.
Sometimes I wonder if there is yet another secret forum where the real secret business of Theoryland is conducted.

Zombie Sammael
06-02-2011, 03:34 PM
I am far from the boss at Theoryland. Tam can squash me at any time if he so chooses. I take the responsibility of keeping things organized and sane in WoT discussion since no one else will do it, and Tam tries to keep me from being overly dictatorial. Half-heartedly, I admit.

Technically, Gonzo or WH or other regulars could step up and do the same, but they don't. Maybe because they don't feel like fighting with me? I don't know; no one tells me anything.

I know. And Frenzy would be so upset if she heard me refer to you as the Amyrlin. Tam could squash all like bugs, but you may have noticed that the bugs round here tend to come back when you least expect it.

Sometimes I wonder if there is yet another secret forum where the real secret business of Theoryland is conducted.

There is, I've been trying to find a way in for years.

GonzoTheGreat
06-02-2011, 03:42 PM
Technically, Gonzo or WH or other regulars could step up and do the same, but they don't. Maybe because they don't feel like fighting with me? I don't know; no one tells me anything.I'm like, you know, like, peace, man.
I'm far too lazy to even try to tidy up other people's clutter.

I do burn away quite a fair amount of spam, though.

Sometimes I wonder if there is yet another secret forum where the real secret business of Theoryland is conducted.We have a special thread for that, which we vigorously move out of your way whenever you come close to seeing it.

yks 6nnetu hing
06-03-2011, 04:51 AM
I'm 6'0" and look like a mix of Brad Pitt and Johnny Depp, but more attractive. I'm 27 and have slept wit thousands of women. Money and success seem to just naturally follow me and there is not a single sport I do not accelerate in.

what are you guys like? Or describe the av fan

how about a staring competition? the game of who can stay quiet the longest? Balancing on one wheel of the bike longest?

we have a few resident grammar nazis, that's possibly the first thing you should know. you'll be made merciless fun of if you misuse words or do (Freudean) typos.

The typical TL'er is not exactly the same as a typical WoT fan, you know. we're known as the Hard Core Fan Freaks. People at Dragonmount scare their children with a TL'er coming to quiz them on WoT if they misbehave. Overall TL'ers don't get vitriolic at particular characters in WoT (and it's not very well tolerated if people get excessive in their... expressions on certain characters. Live and let live is the policy here, but by far not in all of the fandom) but you should hold on to your hat and dodge the balefire in any discussion on whether LTT is imaginary or real in Rand's head. or the nature of the Bore, or the metaphysics of the One Power

if you're looking to get more involved with the board but are afraid of spoilers, check out the Non-WoT board - I'll just warn you ahead of time that things can get heated there too. We've got a very diverse group here, so heated fights can start on any topic - starting from Religion and politics and ending with shoes, chickens and cucumbers. Generally it's safest to just... never mention cucumbers. Just in case.

crap, Frenzy's coming. I've got to go.

Davian93
06-03-2011, 03:05 PM
we have a few resident grammar nazis, that's possibly the first thing you should know. you'll be made merciless fun of if you misuse words or do (Freudean) typos.

Irregardless of all that, for all intensive purposes, were a pretty normal group.

Terez
06-03-2011, 03:11 PM
You are such a troll, Dav.

GonzoTheGreat
06-04-2011, 03:52 AM
You are such a troll, Dav.You may misunderestimate him.

The Unreasoner
06-04-2011, 02:06 PM
What the hell does that mean? He's worse than thought, but in a different way?

themattreborn
06-06-2011, 01:21 PM
Burn me, that's right! And not just often - always!

Lol. It's like Hopper tells Perrin in a dream,

"What is real is not real. What is not real is real. Flesh is a dream and dreams have flesh."

There is entire academics who have made prosperous careers and published papers on what an author implies and subtexts.

themattreborn
06-06-2011, 01:23 PM
As far as this board is concerned, she is the Amyrlin Seat. But she was raised from the red, so watch your step. ;)



Oh, Terez is a she...didn't even look at teh profile lol!

Hope she doesn't box my ears for being a stubborn mule!!

themattreborn
06-06-2011, 01:31 PM
As far as this board is concerned, she is the Amyrlin Seat. But she was raised from the red, so watch your step. ;)

BTW, we have a re-read thread/board where your thoughts as a first time reader might be more illuminating. Many of us have forgotten what experiencing these books for the first time is like, and sometimes there are insights in innocence that are overlooked by experience: http://theoryland.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=58

I am presently only one book ahead of you in my own re-read. Welcome to the board.

Thanks I'll check it out. TDR seems really lacking in action. I'm on pg 505 and there's BEEN NO TROLLOCK ATTACKS. Three Halfmen sure, but they were disposed of rather quickly.

A lot of Notdead but they boring.

Weiramon
06-06-2011, 02:03 PM
Burn my soul, man! Trollocs attacking would be like nightmares walking.

Zombie Sammael
06-06-2011, 02:23 PM
Thanks I'll check it out. TDR seems really lacking in action. I'm on pg 505 and there's BEEN NO TROLLOCK ATTACKS. Three Halfmen sure, but they were disposed of rather quickly.

A lot of Notdead but they boring.

As far as I can remember there is a surprising lack of Trolloc attacks in TDR. Stick with it though, TSR is where the series starts to kick into high gear.

GonzoTheGreat
06-06-2011, 03:08 PM
Thanks I'll check it out. TDR seems really lacking in action. I'm on pg 505 and there's BEEN NO TROLLOCK ATTACKS. Three Halfmen sure, but they were disposed of rather quickly.Peculiar, that. In my (paperback) version there's a Trolloc attack in chapter 5 (Nightmares Walking), which starts on page 74.
Then there's one on page 216 (chapter 19, Awakening), though admittedly that one is from Mat's *finn-begotten memories.
And there are Trollocs in one of Egwene's tests for Acceptance, though admittedly they do not attack her. I'll not speculate on why they decide that she's one of them, so as not to turn this into an Eb* thread.
Finally there are Trollocs in TAR when Rand chases Ishamael, though those evaporate when Rand does something#.

* Egwene bashing.

# He doesn't know what it is that he does.

themattreborn
06-06-2011, 03:43 PM
[QUOTE=Weiramon;151016]Burn my soul, man! Trollocs attacking would be like nightmares walking.[/QUOTE

HAHAHA!!!

themattreborn
06-06-2011, 03:56 PM
Peculiar, that. In my (paperback) version there's a Trolloc attack in chapter 5 (Nightmares Walking), which starts on page 74.
Then there's one on page 216 (chapter 19, Awakening), though admittedly that one is from Mat's *finn-begotten memories.
And there are Trollocs in one of Egwene's tests for Acceptance, though admittedly they do not attack her. I'll not speculate on why they decide that she's one of them, so as not to turn this into an Eb* thread.
Finally there are Trollocs in TAR when Rand chases Ishamael, though those evaporate when Rand does something#.

* Egwene bashing.

# He doesn't know what it is that he does.

Shoots, I did totally forget about the Trolloc ambush in the Dragon Reborn Camp (the camp reborn?).

The next I wouldn't count. You always know freaky things will happen in those accepted portal things. Although I guess it was the Black Ajah ambush, trying to get Egwene. As for Mat's flashbacks from his ancient times, I do like those sequences but they not really trolloc ambushes.

The last one I haven't gotten too yet.
Just finished the chapter where Hoppers flying around, and Perrins running away from the Falcon chick that wants his nuts.

You have to admit, overall it's a lot less exiciting (like I said so far) than the first 2.
#1 is like NONSTOP ambushes, suprises and suspense.
#2 has lots as well, and a beefy battle sequence.

looqas
06-07-2011, 01:46 AM
The Eye of The World and The Great Hunt are like pilots for a show. They lure you in. After that more and more characters are added to the story and it diversifies very, very, very much until the whole story gets so large that it almost grinds to complete standstill around books 8-10. Personally I found Crossroads of Twilight being the low point in the series in a sense that it's essentially catching up book.

BUT cheer up! It's not as bad it sounds. If you can manage to get there then you are already hooked and can't escape, so if you read it with good attitude then you can find enjoyment out of it. It's an essential part of the series and luckily things pick up in Knife of Dreams, which you don't need to wait for to be published. You can amuse yourself with the thought that some people have had to wait for KoD to be released and be in for ~year in that misery of waiting for CoT and then finding out that it was really not something you were hoping for. And when you get to read how Robert Jordan paints the whole picture of the scene and uses 2 pages to set up the canvas you are really feeling the frustration :)

Also about your question what people are like. 95% chance that most probably we all are fat people closing in on middle age crisis and we pretend to be the opposite gender on top of that just because it's the internetz. At least it makes me feel better when visiting these boards. ;)

And the are levels to fan hard core-ism. There are die hard fans with different takes on how to express their love (Terez, Tamyrlin and some others), then there are more casual fans that can be burning brightly in an on-off manner and then are the meh fans who actually just like the series a lot and enjoy the company. And then there are the plain crazy theory types like FelixPax, who people are not sure is getting ideas for his theories via a tooth radio from outer space. ;) But to Felix's, aka Valan Luca fan nr 1, credit his theories are enjoyable to read and totally out of the box kind thinking. The Pattern truly is unraveling with Felix :p

Daekyras
06-08-2011, 09:36 AM
In other words, it's possible to have a threesome with two people who do not touch each other. I have done it, with brothers.

NO WAY!
Seriously?

themattreborn
06-08-2011, 08:08 PM
if darkhounds leave no prints cept stone, does their poopy also show up nowhere but rock? If so, that's a dog I want, burn me!

GonzoTheGreat
06-09-2011, 03:48 AM
if darkhounds leave no prints cept stone, does their poopy also show up nowhere but rock? If so, that's a dog I want, burn me!The fact that you can't see their tracks does not necessarily mean they are not there.

looqas
06-09-2011, 04:42 AM
Well when their saliva is like poisonous acid in lieu of Aliens I'd guess what kind of mines their droppings are.

GonzoTheGreat
06-09-2011, 05:30 AM
Maybe in the next book, we'll encounter whole regiments of Trollocs who have coated their arrowheads with Darkhound poo.
Then again, it might explain why wounds from Halfman weapons never heal well. :p

Zombie Sammael
06-09-2011, 08:37 AM
Maybe in the next book, we'll encounter whole regiments of Trollocs who have coated their arrowheads with Darkhound poo.
Then again, it might explain why wounds from Halfman weapons never heal well. :p

Halfman steel kills. Or did RJ retcon that? I prefer the explanation that Thom found a random channeler to save him, myself.

GonzoTheGreat
06-09-2011, 10:18 AM
Maybe Thom is a DF, and he had a rendez vous with Verin planned?

Toss the dice
06-12-2011, 05:16 AM
I've always assumed Thom just got scratched and was lucky to have lived. His permanent limp tells us it was a pretty serious injury anyway.

Moiraine had always seemed unsurprised that Thom lived. Her only regret was that there wasn't a sister around when it happened, to heal him and prevent the limp. It may be very uncommon or even extremely rare to live unaided after a Halfman blade draws blood, but apparently it's still possible.

Also, it's not as if there has been a big pool of people merely scratched or injured by Halfmen, to test this subject. Most people who get injured from a Halfman's blade are simply killed right then and there, and it has nothing to do with the taint of its blade.

GonzoTheGreat
06-12-2011, 07:30 AM
It may be that there was a local Wisdom or something like that in Whitebridge, who was also one of Moiraine's eyes and ears. In that case, Moiraine would have gotten the information from the one that saved Thom, and she would also have had a reason not to reveal how she knew that he had lived.

druidfire
06-12-2011, 08:02 AM
I always assumed that the fade never fully drew is sword to stick thom with it. There are several injuries that will cause a permenant limp without getting stuck with a sword.

Thom crashed into fade before it sword was half drawn and in TGH Thom tells Rand "That fade had no interest in me. It left me a little present of a stiff leg and ran off after you and Mat."

I've always pictured the fade wrestling with Thom a bit picking him up and throwing him away like a little kid. No need to be injured beyond a broken hip/leg that was set badly and being unconscious for a while.

GonzoTheGreat
06-12-2011, 09:16 AM
Well, there were the suspicious blue flashes too.

druidfire
06-12-2011, 10:36 AM
Well, there were the suspicious blue flashes too.

Yes there was. I can't recall any more information regarding what caused this does anyone have any information on it?

GonzoTheGreat
06-12-2011, 10:50 AM
The best there is, as far as I know, is the following interview report:
Malivar: Do Myrddraal blades flash blue lightning regardless of the blades they strike? Or does it require a power wrought blade? If so, why do the two Fades fighting in the Stone make the flashes?
RJ: Myrddraal blades produce the blue lightning only when they strike their own kind of blade or a blade wrought with the One Power, not simple steel.
Malivar: If a Fade's blade will not produce lightning except against other Thakan'dar wrought blades, and power-wrought blades, why do Thom's daggers produce it when he attacks the Fade at Whitebridge?
RJ: Thom's daggers did not produce the effect. It was produced before Thom reached the Fade.And that's not very enlightening, I'm afraid.

Rand al'Fain
06-12-2011, 11:15 AM
The best there is, as far as I know, is the following interview report:
And that's not very enlightening, I'm afraid.
Possible that Thom had some power-wrought knives that he threw at the Fade and the Fade blocked them with it's sword?

druidfire
06-12-2011, 11:47 AM
If Thoms daggers did not cause the effect, could it have been somthing Rand did? He has used the one power already by this point could this be something along those lines again trying to help Thom throught need or want?

Rand al'Fain
06-12-2011, 12:47 PM
If Thoms daggers did not cause the effect, could it have been somthing Rand did? He has used the one power already by this point could this be something along those lines again trying to help Thom throught need or want?
Rand had NO control of his powers at the time, not until the Dragon Reborn does he get some semblence of contol over them.

Zombie Sammael
06-12-2011, 01:02 PM
This is interesting. There must be some reason why the flashes were produced. Perhaps an AMOL reveal?

Marie Curie 7
06-12-2011, 05:49 PM
This is interesting. There must be some reason why the flashes were produced. Perhaps an AMOL reveal?

Most of the quotes in the section of the Interview Database for Thom involve questions about the blue flashes. However, the answers given at times appear to be contradictory.

For example, we have the quote Gonzo gave above, from 2001, which suggests Thom's daggers were not responsible for the blue flashes:

Netherlands tour, Dromen and Demonen chat - 6 April 2001

Malivar: Do Myrddraal blades flash blue lightning regardless of the blades they strike? Or does it require a power wrought blade? If so, why do the two Fades fighting in the Stone make the flashes?

RJ: Myrddraal blades produce the blue lightning only when they strike their own kind of blade or a blade wrought with the One Power, not simple steel.

Malivar: If a Fade's blade will not produce lightning except against other Thakan'dar wrought blades, and power-wrought blades, why do Thom's daggers produce it when he attacks the Fade at Whitebridge?

RJ: Thom's daggers did not produce the effect. It was produced before Thom reached the Fade.


But later, in 2004, RJ gave the following answer about the blue flashes:

USAToday Chat - 5 January 2004

NY, NY: Why was there a blue light flashing when Thom met the Fade in Whitebridge?

RJ: Because Thom's best knives are very special indeed.

So here it seems like RJ is implying that Thom's daggers/knives were responsible for the blue flashes. Some have tried to argue semantics with respect to the difference between daggers and knives to perhaps explain these comments.


To attempt to clear up the apparent contradiction, Emma asked about the blue flashes at DragonCon in 2005:

DragonCon, 3 September 2005 - Emma reporting

Emma: I started asking him about the two conflicting chats [i.e., the 2001 Netherlands tour chat and the 2004 USAToday chat quoted above]. The question was already sent to him, but he declined to answer it for the Q&A session. I was wondering about why he would do it, but as you might guess when reading his answer, it's because its a RAFO question.

Both answers on the chat are RIGHT!!!! He knows exactly how Thom managed to escape with only a limp and how he managed to survive that. But he might use it in the next book and doesn't want to give away anything. So we have to do it with the knowledge that both answers, although seemingly conflicting are both CORRECT.


And finally, Brandon has commented on the blue flashes on Twitter over the last year or so:

Matt Eitner on Twitter - 17 July 2010 4:03 am
Will we ever find out why there were blue flashes when Thom fought the Myrddraal at Whitebridge while Rand and Mat fled?

Brandon - 19 July 1:47 pm
I believe Robert Jordan said something along the lines of "Thom's knives are special."


Brandon on Twitter - 8 January 2011
Much has been made of the blue flash when Thom fights the Fade. I can't say what it was, but it's not what most seem to think.


So make of all that what you will.

Toss the dice
06-12-2011, 06:20 PM
Rand had NO control of his powers at the time, not until the Dragon Reborn does he get some semblence of contol over them.

He had no control over his powers when he was locked up with Mat in the storeroom. And yet, he was responsible for the blast of lightning that allowed them to escape. According to the quotes provided, Rand didn't cause the blue flash, but citing his lack of control at that time is in no way even remotely close to an argument that he COULDN'T have. Remember, he channeled to wash away Bela's tiredness when he was still in the Two Rivers. And he was far from in control when he defeated Aginor at the end of the book. He was "pulled" along.

I had always believed the blue flash had to be from the Halfman's blade, so Thom couldn't have been merely thrown down, etc. Now that I know the blue flash came from Thom's knives, it seems pretty obvious that the Halfman injured him bodily. Thanks for the quotes.