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klye
06-22-2011, 12:37 AM
I'm trying to find the interview BS talks about the "metro problem" of waygates. But I simply cant find it. Or... more to the point... I'm so tired I've become frustrated with Terez's massive library.

Can anyone through me a bone and help me out with a linky?

The Unreasoner
06-22-2011, 12:45 AM
I'm trying to find the interview BS talks about the "metro problem" of waygates. But I simply cant find it. Or... more to the point... I'm so tired I've become frustrated with Terez's massive library.

Can anyone through me a bone and help me out with a linky?

http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=129071#poststop

Have fun

Terez
06-22-2011, 04:27 AM
It's in the One Power category, and the Errors one too I think:

Towers of Midnight book tour 16 November 2010 WH Smith, Paris, France - Jonathan B. reporting (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=129071#poststop)

I asked about why Grady didn't tie off the gateways to move Perrin's troops if he was too tired to keep them open. Brandon says that this was part of the instructions he had, so he didn't want to change it (my speculation is that I think that means it was probably in the notes themselves but I don't know that for sure). He said that it makes sense for tying off gateways to have a cost for the channeller to maintain because if it were so easy to create gateways and tie them off, it could be very breaking for the logistics of the world. If this were possible in the Age of Legends for example, why would anyone need a horse or a wagon or to develop any other kind of technology to transport anything? There could just be tied off gateways from everywhere to everywhere else.

Zombie Sammael
06-22-2011, 06:44 AM
Surely "the cost" or reason why there aren't tied off gateways is obvious: we know that weaves tied off degenerate over time, and that an unravelling gateway can cause tremendous damage. Surely that would be why there wouldn't just be tied off gateways to everywhere?

Weird Harold
06-22-2011, 12:04 PM
Surely "the cost" or reason why there aren't tied off gateways is obvious: we know that weaves tied off degenerate over time, and that an unravelling gateway can cause tremendous damage. Surely that would be why there wouldn't just be tied off gateways to everywhere?
Becoming untied isn't the same thing as an unweaving gone bad. Sammael tied off the gateways he created to disperse the Shaido and then let them unravel on their own.

The Unreasoner
06-22-2011, 12:59 PM
According to RJ a channeler determines how long a tied off weave will last.
And I found the link to the interview requested actually in Perrin's database. I had remembered the question regarded Grady.

Related question, could source be used up by tying off enough webs? Or would it require something more on the order of a CK made patch on the Bore?

Jokeslayer
06-22-2011, 01:56 PM
Related question, could source be used up by tying off enough webs? Or would it require something more on the order of a CK made patch on the Bore?

In theory, but it's not really possible for us to determine how practical it would be - too many unknowns.

The Unreasoner
06-22-2011, 03:12 PM
Maybe a "perfect" patch uses all of saidin and saidar, so an age succeeding would begin to forget both the op and the do. It wouldn't make the sealer very popular though.

Maybe the bore could eventually heal though under such a patch, and then the source would be available again. And definitely fewer problems with the seanchan, cant have damane without saidar.

Zombie Sammael
06-22-2011, 03:31 PM
Becoming untied isn't the same thing as an unweaving gone bad. Sammael tied off the gateways he created to disperse the Shaido and then let them unravel on their own.

Maybe Sammael just didn't care if the unraveling gateways he'd tied off went boom. It'd certainly be in character. And it solves the metro problem.

Weird Harold
06-22-2011, 03:35 PM
Maybe a "perfect" patch uses all of saidin and saidar, so an age succeeding would begin to forget both the op and the do. It wouldn't make the sealer very popular though.

Maybe the bore could eventually heal though under such a patch, and then the source would be available again. And definitely fewer problems with the seanchan, cant have damane without saidar.
It wouldn't take a weave that tied up all the One Power in a single huge gulp. All it would (will) take is a weave that grows or expands like a plant (a Kudzu weave?) to consume enough OP to affect the ability to Channel.

The Bowl of the Winds is an example of the kind of effect I'm talking about. The circle that activated the Bowl didn't provide the raw power the Bowl consumed -- since it drew Saidin on it's own as wellas additional Saidar -- and for weeks afterward the OP was difficult to touch and to channel. A weave that that starts a substantial flow of OP into Healing the Bore and Pattern might have similar consequences on the ability to use the OP for other weaves and expand worldwide.

Somewhere back in the misty past of TL are several discussions about why or how the ability to Channel gets lost. My preference is some variant of the "Island Stedding" theory.

The Unreasoner
06-22-2011, 03:36 PM
Maybe Sammael just didn't care if the unraveling gateways he'd tied off went boom. It'd certainly be in character. And it solves the metro problem.
I think he would worry about being burned out, which is a real possibility. And from moridin's pov, the aol knew little about such things.

Weird Harold
06-22-2011, 03:38 PM
Maybe Sammael just didn't care if the unraveling gateways he'd tied off went boom. It'd certainly be in character. And it solves the metro problem.
He might not have cared except for the minor detail that it would have been counter-productive for large chunks of the chaos he was distrubiting throughout Randland to get blown up.

Zombie Sammael
06-22-2011, 03:42 PM
He might not have cared except for the minor detail that it would have been counter-productive for large chunks of the chaos he was distrubiting throughout Randland to get blown up.

It would only have mattered if they'd been in close proximity to the gate. Presumably it's a small explosion.

The Unreasoner
06-22-2011, 03:47 PM
If it is always an explosion. The aiel studied this phenomenon more thoroughly than those of the AOL.

Toss the dice
06-22-2011, 03:49 PM
I think he would worry about being burned out, which is a real possibility. And from moridin's pov, the aol knew little about such things.

Worry about being burned out from what? There's a big difference between simply tying off and letting them dissipate, and manually un-weaving them like what Aviendha did.

The AOL didn't think manually un-weaving webs was possible. As far as I know that is the only possible way you could burn yourself out, on this subject. Burning yourself out is a non-issue when it comes to tying off weaves and letting them dissipate.

Toss the dice
06-22-2011, 03:51 PM
If it is always an explosion. The aiel studied this phenomenon more thoroughly than those of the AOL.

You're thinking of the way Aiel practice this, with the tiny weave of air that "blows up." In reality, screwing up while un-weaving a web will turn into whatever the weave turns into. Theoretically could be anything, although dependent on the web you channeled to begin with.

The Unreasoner
06-22-2011, 03:53 PM
My point was more that unravelling is different than dissipation. So tying off gateways doesn't present the problems that zombie sammael feared. Sammael tied off those gateways knowing that nothing bad would happen.

Weird Harold
06-22-2011, 03:54 PM
I think he would worry about being burned out, which is a real possibility. And from moridin's pov, the aol knew little about such things.
At the bottom right of every post is this image: http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/images/buttons/quote.gif Clicking on that to reply to apost makes it much easier to know if you think Rand should be worried about being burnt out by Healing the Bore witha Kudzu weave or sammael should be worried about his weaves coming untied disastrously

The Unreasoner
06-22-2011, 04:00 PM
At the bottom right of every post is this image: http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/images/buttons/quote.gif Clicking on that to reply to apost makes it much easier to know if you think Rand should be worried about being burnt out by Healing the Bore witha Kudzu weave or sammael should be worried about his weaves coming untied disastrously

Fixed. I dislike quoting the post immediately before, but I suppose an issue arises if someone posts while I am writing.

Weird Harold
06-22-2011, 04:01 PM
It would only have mattered if they'd been in close proximity to the gate. Presumably it's a small explosion.

The only example we have of a gateway unraveling disastrously is Elayne's gateway from the Kin's farm to Andor; that was not what I would call a small explosion -- possibly a "small nuke," but not a small explosion.

But has has been stated a couple of times, a weave coming untied is not the same thing as a weave coming unraveled. The former is about exactly as dangerous as releasing a weave without tying it off and the latter is unpredictable any weave canproduce anything from a small nuke to a small disappointment or anything in between.

Weird Harold
06-22-2011, 04:07 PM
Fixed. I dislike quoting the post immediately before, but I suppose an issue arises if someone posts while I am writing.
On a busy thread like this, you can get as many as five posts between your reply and the point you're replying to. vBulletin's threaded display sucks, so it is prudent to assume there will be confusion in the linear display that almost everyone uses.