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Ishara
06-24-2011, 09:09 PM
Okay new kids: here’s the name of the Game. We’re resurrecting an old idea for new discussion and thoughts. Every week we’ll have a "Character of the Week" and discuss the merits, foibles, and plot devices that this particular character serves. We’ll be avoiding the “Mains” for several reasons: First, too easy; Second, too much information; Third, well, they’re my discussions and I say no Mains. ;)

Are there characters that just confuse you? Make you rethink your opinion of them every time you re-read? Ones you feel are only there to serve a purpose and not as a true character of the cast with real thoughts and rationale behind their actions?

I’d like to link back to any existing theories, threads and ideas, but let’s try and integrate them into new theories, thoughts and ideas okay? This is less to do with whether we “like” characters – we are Theorylanders, and we are not vapid. If you want to be a Theorylander, practice thinking critically and objectively. Don’t worry, we’ll help!

Here’s the list for the next five weeks – suggestions welcome! PM me and/ or post here and we’ll consider it for sure! This thread will be used to keep track of our Characters of the Week – not for discussion of said Characters. Got it? Good!

Week One: June 24, 2011 – Tigraine Mantear Damodred
(http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=5670)
Week Two: July 1, 2011 – Tam al’Thor (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=5693)

Week Three: July 8, 2011 – Elmindreda Farshaw (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=154419#post154419)

Week Four: July 15, 2011 – Shaidar Haran (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=154938#post154938)

Week Five: July 22, 2011 – Moiraine Damodred (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/editpost.php?do=editpost&postid=155453)

Week Six: July 29, 2011 – Fortuona Athaem Kore Paendrag (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=156079#post156079)

Week Seven: August 5, 2011 - Lord Dobraine, High Seat of House Taborwin (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=156939#post156939)

Week Eight: August 12, 2011 - Moghedien (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=158675#post158675)

Week Nine: August 19, 2011 - Berelain Sur Paendrag (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=159692#post159692)

Week Ten: August 26, 2011 - Graendal (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=160325#post160325)

Week Eleven: September 2, 2011 - Mazrim Taim (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=161685#post161685)

Week Twelve: September 9, 2011 - Alanna Mosvani (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=162512#post162512)

Week Thirteen: September 16, 2011 - Alviarin Friedhen (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=163165#post163165)

Week Fourteen: September 23, 2011 - al'Lan Mandragoran (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=163718#post163718)

Week Fifteen: September 30, 2011 - Aviendha (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=164328#post164328)

Week Sixteen: October 7, 2011 - Thom Merrilin (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=165121#post165121)

Week Seventeen: October 14, 2011 - Padan Fain (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=165610#post165610)

Week Eighteen: October 21, 2011 - Cadsuane Melaidhrin (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=167081#post167081)

Week Nineteen: October 28, 2011 - Olver (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=167479#post167479)

Week Twenty: November 4, 2011 - Leilwin Shipless (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=168465#post168465)

Week Twenty-One: November 11, 2011 - Valan Luca (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=169193#post169193)

Week Twenty-Two: November 18, 2011 - Logain Ablar (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=169761#post169761)
So: go start discussing!

Frenzy
06-24-2011, 10:20 PM
Woo-hoo! I remember those Great Debate threads. i Maybe i should go hunt them down & link them here...

Terez
06-24-2011, 10:25 PM
I think they are on the KOD board at Yuku. They were around that time anyway.

The Unreasoner
06-24-2011, 10:31 PM
Love the idea, especially the bit about no mains.
Great choices too.
Although if I could request some to add to the queue...
Idrien (the headmistress)
Dain bornhald
Bethamin

And while I see him as a main, he's about on the level of Tuon, one of my personal favorites-dobraine.

Rand al'Fain
06-25-2011, 04:44 AM
How about that, we do Min's discussion on my birthday.

looqas
06-27-2011, 04:34 AM
I feel week is too little time to discuss. Why not make it 2 weeks or as long as the discussion is still fruitful and interesting?

The Unreasoner
06-27-2011, 04:40 AM
There needs to be some turnover, and if the conversation is interesting, we can post in the older ones. It's not like the threads will get closed after a week.

Of course, I could be biased, as i want Dobraine and idrien added to the queue.

Ishara
06-27-2011, 10:37 AM
I feel week is too little time to discuss. Why not make it 2 weeks or as long as the discussion is still fruitful and interesting?

Not a bad point, but we can continue to post in threads after the week. The idea is to get some discussion going, so we're cross-posting all the better!

yks 6nnetu hing
07-04-2011, 09:59 AM
I might have been awol the first time these were around. Are we avoiding the ones already done? is Moghedien already done? how about Berelain? I'd like a discussion on those 2 if possible... even though I know how you feel about Berelain, Ish!

Ishara
07-04-2011, 12:45 PM
LOL - nope, I checked and these were all we did, so let's add Berelain and Moghedien to the list. I'd also like to discuss Graendal and all her juxtspositional glory.

The Unreasoner
07-04-2011, 08:28 PM
No Bethamin or Dobraine?

Ishara
07-05-2011, 07:10 AM
Bethamin and Dobraine are 4th and 3rd league-type characters respectively. Not enough to create a solid foundation for reasonable speculation, and in Bethamin's case, not really that interesting beyond her plot-forwarding actions. I feel that bethamin falls under the "Ones you feel are only there to serve a purpose and not as a true character of the cast with real thoughts and rationale behind their actions?" category.

Generally speaking, we're looking for characters with more than one-liners and less than the Big Three (although, we could spread out Mains to more thanjust the Boys, I suppose).

But if you'd like to start a seperate thread to discuss them both, by all means, go ahead!

the_collective
07-06-2011, 01:09 PM
"Not enough to create a solid foundation for reasonable speculation"

"Generally speaking, we're looking for characters with more than one-liners and less than the Big Three (although, we could spread out Mains to more thanjust the Boys, I suppose)."

I assume this would also apply to the person I was going to suggest: Nicola...

Ishara
07-06-2011, 03:10 PM
Maybe. Prove it. ;)

Zombie Sammael
07-06-2011, 03:59 PM
I think Mazrim Taim would be a good choice, but he does get discussed a lot anyway.

David Selig
07-06-2011, 05:52 PM
Why not Faile? Too big of a possibility to turn into a bashing thread? ;)

Ishara
07-06-2011, 08:35 PM
Maybe - but also, she's transparent and honest, in both her conduct and her POVs. There isn't a whole lot of intrigue there - subtlety yes, intrigue no.

Davian93
07-06-2011, 08:48 PM
Maybe - but also, she's transparent and honest, in both her conduct and her POVs. There isn't a whole lot of intrigue there - subtlety yes, intrigue no.

I've never understood any of the Faile hate. Once you realize that Faile is simply a somewhat insecure 16-17 year old teenage girl, every single one of her actions makes sense. Overall, she's a very strong and smart young woman who learns from her mistakes. Of course Perrin doesn't make sense to her, she was raised in a completely different world. She even realizes this eventually. Even her game with Berelain makes sense when you realize 99% of it stems from pure insecurity over her own self-image when compared to a rich powerful "queen" who is considered one of the great beauties of Randland.

Yes, I'm a Faile Booster...I love Berelain too FWIW.

Haters gotta hate though.

yks 6nnetu hing
07-07-2011, 02:27 AM
I've never understood any of the Faile hate. Once you realize that Faile is simply a somewhat insecure 16-17 year old teenage girl, every single one of her actions makes sense. Overall, she's a very strong and smart young woman who learns from her mistakes. Of course Perrin doesn't make sense to her, she was raised in a completely different world. She even realizes this eventually. Even her game with Berelain makes sense when you realize 99% of it stems from pure insecurity over her own self-image when compared to a rich powerful "queen" who is considered one of the great beauties of Randland.

Yes, I'm a Faile Booster...I love Berelain too FWIW.

Haters gotta hate though.On all of that, we agree.

Ishara
07-07-2011, 09:32 AM
I like this new "homie" version of Dav. It's cool. LOL

Heinz
07-07-2011, 01:11 PM
I think Mazrim Taim would be a good choice, but he does get discussed a lot anyway.

Yea, I was thinking of suggesting Laras, but figured she also was previously over-discussed.

JOS
07-07-2011, 02:17 PM
I would really like get an Alivia discussion going. It seems suspicious to me that that her name nearly spells "alive" and according to Min she will help Rand die. Is there a good discussion archived anywhere?

Zombie Sammael
07-07-2011, 03:43 PM
I would really like get an Alivia discussion going. It seems suspicious to me that that her name nearly spells "alive" and according to Min she will help Rand die. Is there a good discussion archived anywhere?

This board has a pretty reasonable search function, though I'm not so sure about the older Yuku boards. Theoryland has been around for a looooong time, I'm not sure if any of the older boards are stored.

The names in Randland are often significant but I'm not sure if anything quite as on the nose as what you're suggesting occurs elsewhere. Still, it's an interesting point and I do agree that Alivia might well be a good character to discuss. There are certainly enough unanswered questions around her, even aside from her involvement with Rand's death (or not).

Davian93
07-07-2011, 06:48 PM
This board has a pretty reasonable search function, though I'm not so sure about the older Yuku boards. Theoryland has been around for a looooong time, I'm not sure if any of the older boards are stored.

The names in Randland are often significant but I'm not sure if anything quite as on the nose as what you're suggesting occurs elsewhere. Still, it's an interesting point and I do agree that Alivia might well be a good character to discuss. There are certainly enough unanswered questions around her, even aside from her involvement with Rand's death (or not).

There's a link to the Yuku version on the top left...there is a comparable search function on that board as well. The Hamsters got into the wiring a bit on the Yuku boards so they're not as complete as we would like but they do go back to around 2000...plenty of good discussions on Alivia's role to be found on both.

Or just start a new thread if it suits your fancy. There is no prohibition against discussing things twice and/or starting new threads...as long as they're WoT relevant on the WoT board...that's pretty much the only rule.

Oh, and JOS, Welcome to Theoryland!

The Unreasoner
07-09-2011, 02:01 PM
You know, I get it's your thing, but bornhald and Bethamin have at least as much to work with as tigraine.
Although one of the things I like least about the series is how the main characters always get what they want, never die, and are somehow experts at everything they do.

Zombie Sammael
07-09-2011, 02:04 PM
I think a thread about the Bornhalds could yield a lot of interesting discussion. Less sure about Dobraine and Bethamin, I'm afraid.

The Unreasoner
07-09-2011, 04:11 PM
Maybe Dobraine has little to work with. but I think Dain's story is one of the most interesting in the series.

Weiramon
07-11-2011, 02:16 AM
Burn my soul, but that Alanna Mosvani is a . . . compelling . . . woman.

The Unreasoner
07-11-2011, 02:19 AM
Burn my soul, but that Alanna Mosvani is a . . . compelling . . . woman.

Seconded.

Ishara
07-11-2011, 06:30 AM
Maybe Dobraine has little to work with. but I think Dain's story is one of the most interesting in the series.

So start a thread. ;)

Zombie Sammael
07-11-2011, 07:25 AM
So start a thread. ;)

I think the point of all of those of us who are suggesting characters is that if there's going to be a character of the week "feature" as it were, here are a few good suggestions you could add to the end of the list. We could just all start threads about our favourite characters but it would seen get boring, whereas if you are doing this as a "feature" to stimulate discussion it would no doubt me productive to simply add names on to the list.

the_collective
07-11-2011, 02:19 PM
I think the point of all of those of us who are suggesting characters is that if there's going to be a character of the week "feature" as it were, here are a few good suggestions you could add to the end of the list.

Seconded. I think we were all under the impression (based on your first post and Tamyrlin's initial Tweet) that you'd be taking our best suggestions to add to the list of To-Be-Discussed Feature Characters. Is that not what you intended? I have yet to see you take a suggested name as such; you either rebuff the suggestion or tell us "That's great, honey - why don't you run along and play with that?" (though, not in so many words)...

Tamyrlin
07-11-2011, 02:54 PM
Seconded. I think we were all under the impression (based on your first post and Tamyrlin's initial Tweet) that you'd be taking our best suggestions to add to the list of To-Be-Discussed Feature Characters. Is that not what you intended? I have yet to see you take a suggested name as such; you either rebuff the suggestion or tell us "That's great, honey - why don't you run along and play with that?" (though, not in so many words)...

And Ishara has that "run along and play" kind of thing going on (much love Ish!), but I'm sure the list will get updated. I can't say much for timing as I'm infamously known for "eventually" getting to things, but we have many weeks to go before the next book is released.

Davian93
07-12-2011, 07:03 AM
Part of being a Hero is being crotchety...its part of what defines us.

That, and laziness....and beer. And occasionally chipping on on subjects regardless of our current knowledge base.

And the ESC couch...and inside jokes...also crotchetyness...did I mention the crotchety factor of being a Hero?


Where was I?

yks 6nnetu hing
07-12-2011, 07:08 AM
Part of being a Hero is being crotchety...its part of what defines us.

That, and laziness....and beer. And occasionally chipping on on subjects regardless of our current knowledge base.

And the ESC couch...and inside jokes...also crotchetyness...did I mention the crotchety factor of being a Hero?


Where was I?

inside jokes? what inside jokes?

*throws a toeshoe at Dav*

Ishara
07-12-2011, 11:02 AM
Partly, the fact that you (the figurative you) feel like it's good topic of dicsussion doesn't make it so for the purposes of this thread/ series. We're looking for secondary/ tertiary characters, and lots proposed simply don't make that cut. For example, Tigraine has the edge versus Bornhald since she you know, gave birth to the Dragon Reborn. That elevates her. Bornhald may be interesting, but his motivations are 100% clear. His actions, while having some impact are not what I'd call pivotal. They can be filled by someone else.

We're looking for fact-driven speculation on the reasons why people do what they do, not whether we agree or not, or whether they piss us off or not. These are the characters whose actions keep yo uup at night with questions. What meaningful questions do you have about Idrien? Or Dobraine (who I've added for the sake of argument at least)?

I'm sorry that you feel there's a degree of 'run along and play here,' but if we have meatier proposals there would be less of that. If I don't buy it and I suggest proving why X, Y, Z is a good subject, then throw me a bone. I'm not doing your work for you. And as has been said above, if you want to start a discussion on someone who interests you, these threads are not meant to preclude that from happening. Just because we have CotW threads doesn't mean those are the only characters we can talk about ever. That's just silly!

Weiramon
07-12-2011, 01:30 PM
If I don't buy it and I suggest proving why X, Y, Z is a good subject, then throw me a bone.

Burn my eyes, we'll not dance to your tune! I'll not point out that Alanna Mosvani has been involved in significant events dating back to the Aiel War, has some kind of bond with the Lord Dragon, has a mysterious point of view, and has recently fled the company of the Lord Dragon. I'll not mention how she has appeared with that blacksmith in the Two Rivers, as well as with the Lord Dragon in both Caemlyn and Cairhien, Far Madding and the Stone. Furthermore I will not draw attention to the fact that she is a close associate of a known Black Sister. Why, it would not be a surprise to hear (but not from me, as I will not have my strings pulled!) that she has received a missive from this Black Sister instructing her to work some mischief, thus her current whereabout being unknown, other than to speculate (by others, certainly not by me) she has returned to her native land in the North.

JOS
07-12-2011, 03:20 PM
Oh, and JOS, Welcome to Theoryland!

Thanks! I have been lurking for quite some time, I put off joining up for too long. With the release of aMoL coming up (soon, hopefully) I couldn't bear to stay on the sidelines. I am in the middle of a re-read of tGS, hoping to find something new.

The Unreasoner
07-12-2011, 03:49 PM
Lol. fair points about alanna. I just put her in the same camp as taim. A fairly major character who is talked about already. When I saw tigraine on the list though, to me it put all of my suggestions in the playable pile. But then I see min as a main. to me there was only one real question for tigraine: why? We went in knowing there was no answer to be found. But we came up with several well supported guesses.

I actually found the discussion most interesting when it branched off from an observation, rather than with the observation itself.

Idrien-what is her role after the last battle, why did rand choose her to oversee his legacy, what does her pragmatism being set over Tovere's optimism say about creation and utility?

Dobraine-a perfectly loyal follower, powerful yet seemingly without personal ambition. Why does he follow so meekly? And the absence of double dealing, standing up to cadsuane...most unusual for a cairhienin. Where does this loyalty come from? Faith in the dragon, like Bashere? Or something more sinister? Might he be compelled, or even a darkfriend in service to Demandred?

Bethamin - sul'dam turned marathdamane is remarkable enough. But she chooses to go to the Aes Sedai, and in the process must abandon her faith in the empire or acknowledge herself as an abomination. She was saved at the last moment by mat, giving her a purpose greater than he knew, and sanctioning her mission. Will she find a way to consolidate being a servant of all with her imperial duties? Or will Egwene or Tuon order her execution?

Alanna has more to work with than all of the above, and is clearly less of a main than min and has more discussion material than tigraine.

As does Taim, Logain, galad, suroth, Beslan, teslyn, and a few others I lack names for at the moment.

The Unreasoner
07-12-2011, 05:15 PM
I must thank you for adding Dobraine. I feel he is under discussed.

Ishara
07-14-2011, 07:57 AM
Burn my eyes, we'll not dance to your tune! I'll not point out that Alanna Mosvani has been involved in significant events dating back to the Aiel War, has some kind of bond with the Lord Dragon, has a mysterious point of view, and has recently fled the company of the Lord Dragon. I'll not mention how she has appeared with that blacksmith in the Two Rivers, as well as with the Lord Dragon in both Caemlyn and Cairhien, Far Madding and the Stone. Furthermore I will not draw attention to the fact that she is a close associate of a known Black Sister. Why, it would not be a surprise to hear (but not from me, as I will not have my strings pulled!) that she has received a missive from this Black Sister instructing her to work some mischief, thus her current whereabout being unknown, other than to speculate (by others, certainly not by me) she has returned to her native land in the North.

LOL

Okay, consider her the next one on the list.

Davian93
07-14-2011, 08:10 AM
Thanks! I have been lurking for quite some time, I put off joining up for too long. With the release of aMoL coming up (soon, hopefully) I couldn't bear to stay on the sidelines. I am in the middle of a re-read of tGS, hoping to find something new.

I've read the books dozens of times and I still find something new everytime I do a reread. Or perhaps I'm just finding things that I had forgotten. Considering the sheer volume of books I read, that's a distinct possibility. I have a great memory (near photographic actually) but its still a ton to retain.

hawkeye31
07-23-2011, 09:22 AM
Sorry, don't mean to sound rude or impatient but why isn't the next topic open for discussion yet?

Ishara
07-23-2011, 11:08 AM
Sorry - have a wedding this weekend that I'm in and things have been *mental*. Will be up in 10 minutes. :)

ETA: Up now!

The Unreasoner
07-23-2011, 12:21 PM
Wot before weddings, lol.
congrats to the (presumably) happy couple

The Unreasoner
07-25-2011, 11:39 PM
I generally don't like spambots agreeing with me.

GonzoTheGreat
08-14-2011, 07:39 AM
Suggestion: use an abbreviation in the titles of the threads. Using "CotW: Narg" would be enough to inform us what the thread is about. As it is, all I can see from the level of the main board is that there's a change in the thread "Character of the Week -...", which is not especially informative at the moment.

Zombie Sammael
08-14-2011, 09:10 AM
Alternative to Gonzo's suggestion: reverse the title. So instead of "Character of the Week - Moghedien" make it "Moghedien - Character of the Week" or even "Moghedien - COTW". That way those of us who are too lazy to actually click into the board will be able to see who we're talking about.

Ishara
08-16-2011, 09:31 AM
Suggestion: use an abbreviation in the titles of the threads. Using "CotW: Narg" would be enough to inform us what the thread is about. As it is, all I can see from the level of the main board is that there's a change in the thread "Character of the Week -...", which is not especially informative at the moment.

Done!

SauceyBlueConfetti
08-16-2011, 09:47 AM
I am finding the number of responses and various topics within the responses interesting...obviously posting partially has to do with how much time folks have, etc, but the interest in certain characters over others is suprising to me. I would've thunk Moggy would have generated much more discourse.

Great idea, I am really enjoying reading everyone's take on each character.

WinespringBrother
08-22-2011, 09:11 AM
Started up the thread for Berelain :)

Zombie Sammael
09-04-2011, 07:00 AM
I'd like to make the case for Alviarin as a character about whom I think some worthwhile discussion can be had. There's much we don't know about her, from her background to the significance of the "Mark" upon her, so I think there's plenty of room for theorising and speculation, and also wider discussion of the workings of the Black Ajah, and what they'll do next having now been discovered.

WinespringBrother
09-06-2011, 09:22 AM
Mazrim Taim's thread is now open for business :D

WinespringBrother
09-06-2011, 10:31 AM
I'd like to make the case for Alviarin as a character about whom I think some worthwhile discussion can be had. There's much we don't know about her, from her background to the significance of the "Mark" upon her, so I think there's plenty of room for theorising and speculation, and also wider discussion of the workings of the Black Ajah, and what they'll do next having now been discovered.

Noted, and added to the queue

Zombie Sammael
09-06-2011, 11:14 AM
Noted, and added to the queue

Thanks. :D Now I feel pressure to have something worthwhile to say about her when it comes up....

The Unreasoner
09-06-2011, 06:16 PM
Thanks. :D Now I feel pressure to have something worthwhile to say about her when it comes up....

I know what you mean. I lobbied for Dobraine and completely dropped the ball when the time came. I still have some thoughts brewing, and I may get around to posting them later, but I have no attention span and an impulsive streak. Remember "Who Killed Asmodean: The Board Game"? While I was writing it in Maple I began to get more interested in designing a 'perfect' AI. And eventually the whole thing became me trying to program the AI to 'guess' what room a player was going to next by analyzing the changing distances between a player and room entrances. It fell apart when I started trying to teach myself Java (which fell apart when I moved on to BASIC).

Anyway, Alviarin though, pretty cool. I notice that you nominated Taim too. Lots of similarities between the two, and some of my favorite villains.

GonzoTheGreat
09-07-2011, 04:43 AM
It fell apart when I started trying to teach myself Java (which fell apart when I moved on to BASIC).Doesn't everyone know BASIC already? :confused:

The Unreasoner
09-07-2011, 09:25 PM
I should have said Visual BASIC. But no, I don't know either really. I write things out in pseudocode and either put it into Maple or use a custom Excell workbook to convert it into macros. How would I know it anyway? I never used it in high school, and don't study it now in college.

Enigma
09-19-2011, 06:10 PM
What about some discussins on Pedron Neill and Logain?

Crispin's Crispian
09-19-2011, 06:45 PM
What about Loial? He's not the most exciting character, and he hasn't done much, but we could speculate on his role on the Stump and as a friend of all the heroes at the Last Battle.

Maybe I should just start an Ogier discussion thread instead.

Rand al'Fain
09-19-2011, 07:35 PM
How about Bela? She could be the Dark One incarnate, or the Creator keeping an eye on things!

But seriously, Bela is practically one of the heroennes (I think I just butchered the spelling, having a brain fart right now) of the story. Been in there as long as Rand has for crying out loud.

GonzoTheGreat
09-20-2011, 03:10 AM
How about the wind that constantly rises and runs around, spying on all sorts of interesting things, yet never reveals on which side it actually is?

Ishara
11-24-2011, 08:46 AM
So, with enormous outrageous and copious amounts of credit to Winespring Brother for taking this series and really running with it while I was off getting married and settled into married life, I wonder if we need a bit of a break? I notice that participants are fewer and fewer with less and leass meaning ful discussion happening. Shall we regroup in the New Year with a new list, or would folks like to continue?

maleshub
01-21-2012, 10:40 PM
Anyone care to rejuvenate the discussion here? My suggestions are Elayne Tarkand or Tuon/Fortuona.