PDA

View Full Version : Lews Therin and Ishamael prologue


padfoot89
07-24-2011, 10:08 AM
How come Lews Therin didn't seem bothered to see Ishamael standing there ? I understand that he had a lot on his mind (Ilyena being dead, him killing everyone etc) but he didn't think it odd at all that Ishamael was standing there in front of him when he was supposed to be sealed at the Bore.

Ishara
07-24-2011, 11:22 AM
Well, he was insane. It wasn't so much that he had a lot on his mind, as much as it was that his mind was broken by that point. He didn't see any of his friends, or family dead in the palace - just didn't register them. The normal rules of what would shock him or surprise him did not apply in that scenario.

FelixPax
07-24-2011, 12:35 PM
How come Lews Therin didn't seem bothered to see Ishamael standing there ? I understand that he had a lot on his mind (Ilyena being dead, him killing everyone etc) but he didn't think it odd at all that Ishamael was standing there in front of him when he was supposed to be sealed at the Bore.


Who's to say the Prologue in tEotW book, was the actually event live?

He remembered, a cloudy memory like a dream of a dream , but he knew it true.


Was this a 'Mirror World of Flesh' reflection of Lews Therin, as seen from Ishamael? A Dream created, sought by Ishamael, seeking to learn what occurred during his prisonment in the Bore?


Odd isn't how a 'Mirror World of Flesh' is less truthful than one without People?


“Mirrors of the Wheel,” Loial said.

She gave him a look, then nodded. “Yes. Exactly. Those worlds truly are mirrors in a way, especially the ones where there are no people. Some of them reflect only great events in the true world, but some have a shadow of that reflection even before the event occurs.


The Great Hunt, Chapter 17 "Choices" -- Rand al'Thor point of view; with Loial, Hurin, Selene/Mierin/Lanfear/Else Grinwell

Lews Therin's Prologue was in the Flesh, not a Dream state. Lews Therin seems to be a Mirror World reflection, set in the past, during an attempt by Ishamael to learn what's occurred while he's been struck in the Bore.

The eyes pursued him through the endless caverns of his mind.

A clue that Ishamael was L.T.T.'s mind in tEotW book, just as later hints exist that Moridin was in Rand's mind in ToM book too.


Sammael did mention that extensive efforts were made to turn L.T.T. to the Shadow, getting into L.T.T. mind should be the least of it. Ishamael/Moridin did the same thing with Rand al'Thor too.

jana
07-24-2011, 12:35 PM
because they're both Chosen, obviously. They probably had dinner parties all the time.

padfoot89
07-24-2011, 01:43 PM
Well, he was insane. It wasn't so much that he had a lot on his mind, as much as it was that his mind was broken by that point. He didn't see any of his friends, or family dead in the palace - just didn't register them. The normal rules of what would shock him or surprise him did not apply in that scenario.

I meant after he was healed by Ishamael. Ishamael even reminded him about the attempt to seal the Bore. Yet, Lews Therin didn't wonder even for a bit how and why Ishamael was not trapped. IMO it should have atleast surprised him.

Enigma
07-24-2011, 02:53 PM
Did LTT know that the 13 top forsaken were sealed away? My understanding is that the sealing of the bore (which trapped the forsaken or at least the 13 we call the forsaken) and the tainting of Saidan happened virtually at the same moment. He may not have even been involved in fighting any of the forsaken who were either retreating back to the pit or trying to fight their way up to the surface. Normally I would expect LTT as the light's big gun to be there but given the serious world ending risks of messing up placing the seals would LTT leave that to any of the surviving companions who were all I believe relativly young male channelers and as such would lack his experience. Not even LTT could lead the fight against the forsaken and place the seals at the same time.

If that is the case LTT went mad before he knew that Ishamael & co were sealed away. I've always wondered who reported back the success of the raid to the rest of the forces of the light if all the channelers were mad, but that's another quesion.

GonzoTheGreat
07-24-2011, 03:20 PM
I meant after he was healed by Ishamael. Ishamael even reminded him about the attempt to seal the Bore. Yet, Lews Therin didn't wonder even for a bit how and why Ishamael was not trapped. IMO it should have atleast surprised him.I don't see why LTT should have expected any Forsaken to be trapped. I sort of doubt they'd done extensive tests with the weave they were using, so they wouldn't have known the effect it would have on humans inside it.

It is a good question how anyone at all knew about the 13 sealed Forsaken, though. Would they have been visible to curious sight seers who came by on a touristy trip?

Kimon
07-24-2011, 03:37 PM
I don't see why LTT should have expected any Forsaken to be trapped. I sort of doubt they'd done extensive tests with the weave they were using, so they wouldn't have known the effect it would have on humans inside it.

It is a good question how anyone at all knew about the 13 sealed Forsaken, though. Would they have been visible to curious sight seers who came by on a touristy trip?

Elan seemed surprised by how far gone into madness Lews Therin already was, and while he did mention that the Hundred Companions were already tearing the world to shreads, that might indicate that some of the Companions might have been lucid long enough to have brought back reports to the female Aes Sedai (and to non-Companion male Aes Sedai) about the success of the mission, along with the windfall of trapping the Forsaken. Beyond that, do we know if the Hundred were really alone? Wouldn't it have made sense for them to have brought some regular soldiers along to provide support and cover while they were weaving the seals into place. If so, they also could have reported on the outcome of the mission.

FelixPax
07-24-2011, 03:44 PM
I don't see why LTT should have expected any Forsaken to be trapped. I sort of doubt they'd done extensive tests with the weave they were using, so they wouldn't have known the effect it would have on humans inside it


Affinity.

Mierin and Lews Therin has an 'affinity' with each other. Each would literally know where the other was located.

L.T.T. would know when & where Mierin disappeared physically into the Bore, because of their 'mutual affinity'.

They each learned how to channel the power together, switching back and forth who leads a linked circle of two.


Of course, Beidomon possessed a similar 'affinity' with Mierin/Lanfear. Beidomon & Mierin after all were behind the originally drilling plan. Perhaps Beidomon was involved in re-sealing the Bore, too? Died in the act of re-sealing it?

padfoot89
07-25-2011, 01:21 PM
I don't see why LTT should have expected any Forsaken to be trapped. I sort of doubt they'd done extensive tests with the weave they were using, so they wouldn't have known the effect it would have on humans inside it.


I had a mental picture of all the Forsaken being shoved into a "hole" and LTT desperately trying to seal it.
I guess its possible that LTT was so focused on placing the seals that he was unaware of what was happening around him. Like Rand during the Cleansing at Shadar Logoth.

Elan seemed surprised by how far gone into madness Lews Therin already was, and while he did mention that the Hundred Companions were already tearing the world to shreads, that might indicate that some of the Companions might have been lucid long enough to have brought back reports to the female Aes Sedai (and to non-Companion male Aes Sedai) about the success of the mission, along with the windfall of trapping the Forsaken. Beyond that, do we know if the Hundred were really alone? Wouldn't it have made sense for them to have brought some regular soldiers along to provide support and cover while they were weaving the seals into place. If so, they also could have reported on the outcome of the mission.

None of the regular soldiers survived the sealing. Perhaps, they survived the sealing but was killed soon after by the mad channelers. If so, they may have had time for a quick phone call.
I also think it likely that not all the 100 companions went insane immediately. I think only the ones who were directly involved with the sealing went mad instantly. The ones who were doing some other role (protecting the others etc) may have been lucid for a while.

GonzoTheGreat
07-25-2011, 02:44 PM
I also think it likely that not all the 100 companions went insane immediately. I think only the ones who were directly involved with the sealing went mad instantly. The ones who were doing some other role (protecting the others etc) may have been lucid for a while.Maybe you are right, but that idea is directly contradicted by a number of (seemingly relevant) passages in the actual books.
This one seems pertinent:
But that was not the only result, of course. Instead, there was the counterstroke from the Dark One at the moment of sealing, and saidin itself was tainted. Lews Therin and the sixty-eight survivors of the Hundred Companions went insane on the instant. Within days they were leaving trails of death and destruction in their paths. By the time the taint on saidin was discovered, hundreds more male Aes Sedai had been driven mad, and what remained of civilization after the war itself had fallen into chaos. Even informing all the remaining sane male Aes Sedai of the danger was now impossible. That fateful day at Shayol Ghul ended the war, and began the Breaking of the World.

Weiramon
07-25-2011, 03:00 PM
Perhaps Beidomon was involved in re-sealing the Bore, too? Died in the act of re-sealing it?


Burn me, that would be suicide.

FelixPax
07-25-2011, 05:49 PM
Burn me, that would be suicide.

Burn me, bad surprises occur in war.

Marie Curie 7
07-25-2011, 06:46 PM
Of course, Beidomon possessed a similar 'affinity' with Mierin/Lanfear. Beidomon & Mierin after all were behind the originally drilling plan. Perhaps Beidomon was involved in re-sealing the Bore, too? Died in the act of re-sealing it?

Burn me, that would be suicide.


Burn me, bad surprises occur in war.


Read and find out:

TOR Questions of the Week, February 2005-July 2005 (http://13depository.blogspot.com/2009/03/tor-questions-of-week.html)

Week 12 Question: Who was Beidomon, who helped Lanfear with the project that lead to the drilling of the Bore? Did he figure in the later events at the end of the Age of Legends?

Robert Jordan Answers: Beidomon was a male Aes Sedai, and a research genius, who believed that they were onto something great. The drilling of the Bore itself caused great damage, and Beidomon, Lanfear and others involved were blamed for that. Once it became clear what had actually happened, the opprobrium increased, and Beidomon sought obscurity, finally committing suicide when he was unable to achieve it. Everyone knew his name, and what he had done. He had nowhere to hide.

padfoot89
07-26-2011, 03:47 AM
Maybe you are right, but that idea is directly contradicted by a number of (seemingly relevant) passages in the actual books.
This one seems pertinent:

I'm aware of that quote but I wonder how anyone could possibly know that for sure. Perhaps, a soldier was alive long enough to give a report on what happened.

FelixPax
07-26-2011, 07:31 PM
Read and find out:

Yes, I'm aware of RJ's open-ended and vague Beidomon background explanation.


A Mystery


Beidomon sought obscurity

Where would a person like Beidomon seek obscurity? A place few humans seek to go to, or stay at? A distant Ogier Stedding perhaps?

Would any Ogier society possess knowledge of who Beidomon truly was? Or not? Be it, Seanchan Gardeners, Westlander, Malkeri Ogier refugees, Sharan Ogiers, or Ogier from another Parallel World?
Would any Ogier society know the events surrounding how Beidomon truly died?

If Lews Therin Telamon was one of those who sealed the Bore, why did he not go insane immediately? The majority of the Companions went insane, after all, on the spot. Whereas, a madness overtook L.T.T.

Why is L.T.T. found in the Prologue of 'The Eye of the World' during the Breaking of the World period? Why was L.T.T. found by Ishamael insane at one of his mansions, rather than at the location of Shayol Ghul?





Is it suicide to stop the Dark One?


For all readers know, Beidomon was ta'veren and re-sealed the Bore himself alone using saidin? A mission no one in their right mind would expect to survive. A suicide mission, to clean up the mess he helped create in the first place?

Or perhaps Beidomon survived late into 'The Breaking of the World'? Aided by an Ogier sanctuary?


Matryoshka Dolls stories

Robert Jordan enjoyed making his stories akin to Russian Matryoshka Dolls (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matryoshka_doll), one story in yet another deeper more complex story. RJ enjoys vexing, creating confusion, and making readers retain a seed of doubt. A given story isn't the whole truth, let alone explain motivations.


Take RJ's use of the phrases "City" and "Tower". If he writes "City", it could mean anyone of the Capital Cities found in Tear, Illian or Cairhien. (tPoD, Chapter 21)

If he writes "Tower", it could mean anyone of these institutions or buildings: "White Tower" in Tar Valon, "Tower of Ravens", "Towers of Midnight" in Seanchan, "Tower of Morning" in Tanchico, "Tower of Morning" in Cairhien, "Tower guards", "Black Tower" near Caemlyn et al.


. So, Mesaana was inside the White Tower. Mesaana in the Tower, and Graendal in Arad Doman.

Lord of Chaos, Chapter "To Understand a Message" -- Sammael point of view; his thoughts

RJ did a similar turn of phrase with the word "Wind" too, if far more complex still. That word the "Wind" is tied to among others the Dragon... Windfinders, Olver's Horse, Valan Luca and Nynaeve al'Meara's special Talent of 'Listening to the Wind'. Really this topic worth a separate thread.

Ditto for RJ's turn of phrase with the word "Collar". It's a complex topic worth a whole separate thread.

Beidomon's past doings is akin to a tiny Matryoshka Doll--the ninth and smallest doll. The greatest mystery.



Changing Outcomes


The Watcher/Moridin is not the only individual who can alter history and outcomes.


But today’s truth need not be tomorrow’s. The watcher had seen truth change a hundred times between a single sunrise and sunset. More than once he had changed it himself.


A Crown of Swords, Patterns Within Patterns" - Moridin/The Watcher point of view

Beidomon changed outcomes, without question. Beidomon drilled the Bore. One important question is did Beidomon re-seal the Bore?

Or did Lew Theron Telamon and the Companions truly re-seal the Bore?




Questions of Knowing, Perception, Misdirection, Memory, Understanding


How would the 13 Forsaken know, or learn of who actually re-sealed the Bore? Considering they were within the Bore itself, outside of Time and the Pattern itself?

“I was buried deeply, in a dreamless sleep where time did not flow. The turnings of the Wheel passed me by.--Mierin (TSR, Ch.9 "Decision")


“For the rest . . . think back, Sammael. We used to plot against one another almost as hard as we fought Lews Therin, yet we were winning before he caught us all gathered at Shayol Ghul.” She shuddered, and for a moment her face looked haggard. Sammael did not want to remember that day either, or what came after, a dreamless sleep while the world changed past recognition and all he had wrought vanished.

Lord of Chaos, Chapter 6 "Threads Woven of Shadow" -- Sammael point of view; with Graendal

The 13 Forsaken would lack firsthand knowledge, they would have to have learned what occurred through second hand or third hand stories, books or Mirror Worlds reflections of Flesh or Dream set in the past. Even Ishamael was half-way caught in the Bore, so even he should not know who actually sealed the Bore from firsthand information. Yet Ishamael sought to destroy knowledge and alter historical tales during the limited times he was outside of the Bore. Libraries burned, invasions created, various characters subject to Compulsion. Thus, the 12 other Forsaken are all subject to Ishamael's and Other's second hand misinformation campaigns.


Even Rand al'Thor is subject to this bias, of second hand misinformation. Why? Rand relies on stories for truth and insight:

But if the herons “named him true,” what need for Dragons? For that matter, what was a Dragon ? The only Dragon he had ever heard of was Lews Therin Telamon. Lews Therin Kinslayer had been the Dragon; the Dragon was the Kinslayer. Except now there was himself. But he could not be marked with himself. Perhaps the figure on the banner was a Dragon; not even Aes Sedai seemed to know what that creature was.


The Shadow Rising, Chapter 9 "Decisions" -- Rand al'Thor point of view; his thoughts

Question remains what does the soul of Rand al'Thor truly recollect in 'A Memory of Light' book? Are many of L.T.T's memories missing because of the Taint on saidin?

Do you remember nothing, Lews Therin?”--Be'lal

(TDR, Chapter 55 "What Is Written in Prophecy)

Ishamael was indeed annoyed that L.T.T. lacked memories earlier (tEotW, Prologue).


Artur Hawkwing never did called Rand al'Thor "The Dragon". Hawkwing only called Rand, "Lews Therin". (TGH, Chapter 47)

Separately, there's a problem of Ishamael losing his own memories--from insanity and effects of using the True Power.

Curiously, male Forsaken granted the Dark One's protection from the Taint on saidin should fully retain their Second Age memories: Rahvin, Sammael, Demandred among others. Rahvin's comments about Sammael directly imply he never used the True Power. Sammael has his full memories before being imprisoned in the Bore, unlike Ishamael/Moridin who does not.



Where did Beidomon, Lews Therin Telamon each truly die at? Who's tomb is truly Dragonmount?


Dragonmount, where the Dragon had died—and with him, some said, the Age of Legends—where prophecy said he would be born again. Or had been.


The Shadow Rising, Chapter 1 "Seeds of Shadow"--Omni point of view

Sammael’s hand trembled with anger, nearly slopping punch from his goblet before he could still it. Rand al’Thor was not Lews Therin. He himself had outlived the great Lews Therin Telamon, handing out praise for victories he could not have won himself and expecting others to lap it up. His only regret was that the man had not left a grave for him to spit on.


Lord of Chaos, Chapter 6 "Threads Woven of Shadow" -- Sammael point of view; his thoughts
Dragonmount was where Lews Therin Kinslayer had died, so it was said; and other words had been spoken of the mountain, prophecy and warning. Rich reasons to stay away from its black slopes.


The Dragon Reborn, Chapter 10 "Secrets" -- Egwene al'Vere point of view; her thoughts

“He is Lews Therin Telamon reborn,” Lanfear said just as softly, “and Lews Therin was as strong as any.” Sammael absently rubbed the scar across his face; it had been Lews Therin who gave it to him. Three thousand years ago and more, well before the Breaking of the World, before the Great Lord was imprisoned, before so much, but Sammael never forgot.


The Fires of Heaven, Prologue "The First Spark Fall" -- Rahvin point of view; with Sammael, Lanfear, Graendal and Moghedien likely spying above them.

At least three current Ogier Steddings exist near the tomb marker that is Dragonmount: Stedding Feindu; Stedding Jentoine; Stedding Shajin.

However, considering Stedding locations literally moved during the 'Breaking of the World', the actual Stedding Beidomon may have last stayed in live, could be an entirely different Ogier Stedding than Feindu, Jentoine or Shajin.

There does exist a giant sa'angreal in the Black Hills curiously enough. Created by whom through?





Even Third Age era Great Captains like Pedron Niall are effected by stories which misinform... in part because of second hand information errors. Or significant information untold, destroyed, or perhaps purposefully altered to change who is later viewed as a villain or hero.

Three thousand years, but prophecy and legend helped men remember—the heart of it, at least, if the details were gone. Lews Therin Kinslayer. --Pedron Niall





Secret Plans, Secret Feelings

Lanfear had loved Lews Therin Telamon, but what had the Dragon felt for her?


What did Mierin/Lanfear feel for Beidomon?
What was Mierin/Lanfear secret plan with L.T.T. during the War of Power, known to few if any others?





A Working Hypothesis, not a Theory


Ironically enough, I'm in the midst of modifying one of my better known working Hypotheses:

Rand, Alivia, Lanfear are the "Three Who Shall Become One" with Callandor. They shall seal the Bore hole; and then die killing every Shadowspawn together

I'm now skeptical that Rand, Alivia, Lanfear shall re-seal the Bore hole successfully. Though I still do believe Rand, Alivia, Lanfear will die in the process of killing (or severing) every Shadowspawn together using Callandor--with a glaring major exception of Moghedien.

(Tangent: Yes, I suspect some Trollocs can be reformed and bought back to the Light. Hence severing their bonds to the Shadow. Trollocs can switch loyalties, choice exists. Creatures with Dreams, can be possibility bought to the Light.)


No, I am beginning to suspect someone else will help re-seal the Bore, separate from Rand, Alivia, Lanfear/Mierin efforts using Callandor.



Will the Soul of Beidomon, help to re-seal the Bore?
Will the Bore be re-sealed by using saidar, saidin together?
Or will the Bore be re-sealed by another mechanism, Dreaming?

Can a male and a female Dreamer together re-seal the Bore, and re-start the Wheel altogether? Perhaps Beidomon and Nynaeve?
Or is the beginning, created by a female Dreamer, a non-Dragon? Perhaps Nynaeve al'Meara alone?

The wind was not the beginning.

TSR, Chapter 1 "Seeds of Shadow" --Omni point of view.

Thus did it begin. Thus do we sing his Rebirth. Thus do we sing the beginning.

—from Do’in Toldara te, Songs of the Last Age,
Quarto Nine: The Legend of the Dragon.
Composed by Boanne,
Songmistress at Taralan,
the Fourth Age


The Dragon Reborn, Chapter "People of the Dragon" --Omni point of view endnote.


Master of the lightnings, rider on the storm, wearer of a crown of swords, spinner-out of fate. Who thinks he turns the Wheel of Time, may learn the truth too late.

—From a fragmentary translation of
The Prophecies of the Dragon,
attributed to Lord Mangore Kiramin,
Sword-bard of Aramaelle and Warder to
Caraighan Maconar,
into what was then called the vulgar tongue
(circa 300 AB).


A Crown of Swords, Chapter 41 "A Crown of Swords -- Omni point of view; endnote prophecy

Who's soul might have been the Sword-bard of Aramaelle & Warder to Caraighan Maconar?

Maybe Lan's or Valan Luca's soul? :confused:




Is this Pattern know as Earth, a creation of a female's Dream?


Might this be a possibly cause, for the known differences in Traveling methods between Females and Males?

Egwene moved closer to Moghedien. The other woman was taller, but she cowered back against the table, knocking over the winecups on their tray and rocking the pitcher. Egwene made her voice cold; it did not have far to go. “The day I detect one lie out of you is the day I execute you myself. Now. I have considered traveling from one place to another by boring a hole, so to speak, from here to there. A hole through the Pattern, so there’s no distance between one end and the other. How well will that work?”

“Not at all, for you or any woman,” Moghedien said, breathless and quick. The fear that boiled inside was plain on her face now. “That is how men Travel.” The capital was plain; she was speaking of one of the lost Talents. “If you try, you will be sucked into . . . I don’t know what it is. The space between the threads of the Pattern, maybe. I don’t think you would live very long. I know you would never come back.”

“Traveling,” Nynaeve muttered disgustedly. “We never thought of Traveling!”

“No, we didn’t.” Elayne sounded no more pleased with herself. “I wonder what else we never thought of.”

Egwene ignored them. “Then how?” she asked softly. A quiet voice was always better than shouting.

Moghedien flinched as though she had shouted anyway. “You make the two places in the Pattern identical. I can show you how. It takes a little effort, because of the . . . the necklace, but I can—”

“Like this?” Egwene said, embracing saidar, and wove flows of Spirit. This time she was not trying to touch the World of Dreams, but she expected something much the same if it worked. What she got was quite different.


Lord of Chaos, Chapter 37 "When Battle Begins" -- Egwene al'Vere point of view; with Moghedien, Nynaeve, Elayne at Salidar Aes Sedai village in Altara

Males bore through something, the Pattern, while Females "make the two places in the Pattern identical" for the Traveling Method?


While a Male using the Skimming Method, leaves that Pattern altogether to a Void or Vacuole state or place, then returns to that Pattern in a different physical location?


Rand never did Travel to Dragonmount, Rand chose to Skim to Dragonmount--at the end of TGS book. Perhaps this distinction matters? :confused:


Jahar Narishma was never an Andoran name; Traveling had no limits that he knew, but it seemed Taim’s recruiting had ventured far afield.

Lord of Chaos, Chapter 28 "Letters" -- Rand al'Thor point of view; his thoughts

Perhaps Rand shall learn what real distinctions exists between Traveling and Skimming soon?

Is Skimming ultimately more powerful than Traveling?

Is Skimming a place where one can create a new Pattern, by Dreaming of it? Is Skimming simply another Robert Jordan phrase for a vacuole, chaos, or void?




Red Ajah and Severing Male Channelers


Who is to say, if one of the Red Ajah members secretly severed the re-born soul of Beidomon ability to channel saidin?
Might have one of the Red Ajah members ironically enough, saved Beidomon's re-born Flesh from being touched by the Dark One's taint in the first place?
No Taint, no direct knowledge of an individual's location? Hence a secret still?

Considering Beidomon sought obscurity, during the War of Power, would not his re-born soul seek the very same?
Why might the re-born Beidomon seeking refugee? To avoid the feeling of saidin, and the widely known dangers of the Taint on saidin, pre-cleansing (WH book).
Where is one known location safe?
Ogier Steddings.


Severing and World Exploration


Curiously a severed male channeler, could safely visit the Seanchan continent and return alive, in theory by ship. A ship sailing east towards Shara. Perhaps thrown off course by a storm to the Southern Seanchan Mainland? Sea Folk ships have survived meeting Seanchan ships to the East. Being severed has its advantages, if one ends up on Seanchan mainland, whether by accident or purpose.




Who is the Chosen One? Is Beidomon's soul re-born the Chosen One? Who is the Sun?


The wind died. The screams died. The earth was still. Dust and smoke swirled back down the pass to surround him.

“The Light blind you, Ba’alzamon! This has to end!”

IT IS NOT HERE.

It was not Rand’s thought, making his skull vibrate.

I WILL TAKE NO PART. ONLY THE CHOSEN ONE CAN DO WHAT MUST BE DONE, IF HE WILL.

“Where?” He did not want to say it, but he could not stop himself. “Where?”

The haze surrounding him parted, leaving a dome of clear, clean air ten spans high, walled by billowing smoke and dust. Steps rose before him, each standing alone and unsupported, stretching up into the murk that obscured the sun.

NOT HERE.


The Eye of the World, Chapter 51 "Against the Shadow" -- Rand al'Thor point of view

Weiramon
07-27-2011, 01:03 AM
Burn my soul, there are legends of 8 legged sea-creatures that spray an inky cloud as black as night when forced to retreat.

Juan
07-27-2011, 01:12 AM
That's a dirty lie Weiramon. There's no such thing. Next you'll b telling me damane are people too.

Enigma
07-27-2011, 04:13 PM
I'm aware of that quote but I wonder how anyone could possibly know that for sure. Perhaps, a soldier was alive long enough to give a report on what happened.

LTT and the companions did bring soldiers with them but SH was the very heart of the Shadow empire at the time. I'm guessing here but would it not be equally heavily guarded. Sort of like Berlin during WW 2 or Moscow during the cold war.

I am sure LTT and co took a heavy tole on the defenders and the Shadow who figured the forces of the light were on the ropes were probably as surprised by the strike as the allies were by the German advance at the battle of the bulge during WW 2

Even so, would the soldiers who were in the middle of a pitched battle and suddenly deprived of the support or at least the coordinated support of their channelers, have the time to give a detailed report?

If so it was probably a bit like that line in The Empire Stike's back "Imperial troups have entered the base, Imperial troups have ....." expect it might have been "the bore is sealed, we've trapped the general staff but something is ...." line goes dead.

FelixPax
07-27-2011, 04:51 PM
Burn my soul, there are legends of 8 legged sea-creatures that spray an inky cloud as black as night when forced to retreat.

Burn Moridin's soul, too many tentacles of the shadow?

Burn my soul, is Weiramon having reoccurring nightmares of shadow-sworn Asha'man still?

Blessings of the Pattern, the Creature gave what that shadow-sworn gagged devil goat Gedwyn was due! Death. (WH,Ch33)

Burn my soul, Weiramon will live forever.... :eek:

Burn Weiramon's soul, for his oily grinning and winking at 8 legged sea-creatures who have a job to do! :rolleyes:

Burn that giant 8 legged sea-creatures' soul, the Dark One is coming out of the deep... :eek:


It rolled over the Trollocs, moving quickly, like the tentacles of a leviathan in the Aryth Ocean.

Towers of Midnight, Prologue "Distinctions" -- The Creature point of view

Does Weiramon think of Ebou Dar's squid and octopus tentacles much lately?

If the High Lord Weiramon gives you Illian and asks Mayene in return, what will you say? If he gives you Murandy, and Altara, and everything clear to the Aryth Ocean?”

A Crown of Swords, Chapter 18 "As the Plow Breaks the Earth" -- Rand al'Thor point of view; Berelain speaking

And Weiramon was a fool. Left to his own devices, he might well try to gain the Lord Dragon’s favor by marching an army against the Seanchan, or Murandy, or the Light alone knew who or where.

The Path of Daggers, Chapter 21 "Answering the Summons" -- Rand al'Thor point of view

Does Weiramon miss Berelain's loving touch? ;)

Four peas in a pod; Berelain, Weiramon, Mierin, Matrim Cauthon. :o

Burn the Pattern, Weiramon like Verin! A double agent, who's wanted to leave the shadow. :eek:


You can’t know how it would pain me if you were injured.”

“I think I know,” Rand said dryly, and Weiramon blinked.


The Path of Daggers, Chapter 23 "Fog of War, Storm of Battle" -- Rand al'Thor point of view; Weiramon

FelixPax
07-27-2011, 04:59 PM
That's a dirty lie Weiramon. There's no such thing. Next you'll b telling me damane are people too.

Next you'll be telling me, Weiramon is really Brandon Sanderson's Theoryland alias too.

Weiramon
07-27-2011, 05:25 PM
Burn the Pattern, Weiramon like Verin! A double agent

Burn my soul, it would not be the first time the Lord Dragon has made a pretense of turning on a trusted ally, bloodying him in public and sending him away in apparent disgrace. To be alone, as it were, without anyone of unquestioning loyalty at his side.

FelixPax
07-27-2011, 06:25 PM
Burn my soul, it would not be the first time the Lord Dragon has made a pretense of turning on a trusted ally, bloodying him in public and sending him away in apparent disgrace. To be alone, as it were, without anyone of unquestioning loyalty at his side.

Burn the bloody plowman's soul, has High Lord Weiramon ever met a Mule or Woman he couldn't ride to glory? :confused:


“My Lord Dragon,” Weiramon intoned. “I cannot express how happy I am to see you guarded by Tairens, my Lord Dragon. Surely the world would weep if anything untoward happened .”


The Path of Daggers, Chapter 21 "Answering the Summons" -- Rand al'Thor point of view; Weiramon

“A great victory,” Weiramon intoned behind Rand, then muttered, “But small honor in it. The old ways are best.”


The Path of Daggers, Chapter 23 "Fog of War, Storm of Battle" -- Rand al'Thor point of view; Weiramon speaking

Like the Wind running it's fingers down to the small of a women's back. Seduction. :o

Oh my, the glorious joys of sweeping the mountains clean...

Juan
07-27-2011, 11:34 PM
Burn everything. Burn it all.