PDA

View Full Version : End of the series - A memory of Light, literally.


nishantjn
08-03-2011, 12:00 AM
First off, I'm a new user. I just signed up. I don't know what took me so long. I've been reading the books since I was 15 years old. Anyway, here I am ... and here goes.

My theory about how the series will end struck me quite randomly, but (without any pretensions attached) I do believe its a VERY likely possibility and would be an awesome (AWESOME!) end to this epic series.

I'm not as hardcore a fan as some of you guys. I wont make citations the same way (I'm also lazy). But none of what I'm saying is too wacky. It's quite possible and quite cool. It agrees with everything that's been happening. And is as bloody unexpected as RJ himself liked things.

In a nutshell, it fits in well with something I read a long time ago about how RJ had his vision of the Last Battle even before he completed the first book.

Enough dillydallying! Here it is.

The idea of the end of the series rises mainly from these facts. Feel free to dispute/discuss them. I'd love to hear everyone's views. The facts are:


1. Rand's school has people discovering electricity and people are working on steam engines. Technology is happening.


2. The world is primarily a single large land mass. Well, two including the Seanchan. I'm not counting the little islands like Tremalking etc.


3. The final book is called A Memory of Light.


4. The One Power and the True Power are at odds with one another. Rand himself is channeling both. As is Moridin (referred in a lot of fan theories as another form of Rand).



Based on this, I conclude that:

At the end of the Last Battle, the One Power shall be wiped out entirely. The world will Break again. There will be no more channelers.


(At this point, this (http://www.nooooooooooooooo.com/) may be appropriate.)

These are very strong words, considering how much we love the One Power and the concept of Aes Sedai and this entire fantasy world of WOT. But I believe it is what will happen.

What will be the aftermath then, you ask?

The result will be a world like ours, running on technology and science. Electricity is already being worked upon. As is medicine. And the steam engine has been made in a rudimentary form.

By destroying the Powers and making it a real world at the end, the series will achieve the greatest union no other series has dreamed of doing - uniting fantasy with reality.

Thus, WOT will become a true myth and legend, not just fantasy fiction.

In the Fourth Age thus, myths will abide of how in previous ages, men and women of mighty Power tore the earth with their minds and raised fires and waters to wage long wars. Stories will be told of how once Gods fought in the skies with arrows of mighty strength and superhuman qualities. They were healed by magic. They could appear wherever they liked. They flew on heavenly chariots. They lived for hundreds of years.

More things that will happen at the end of the book, linking fantasy to our history:

1. The Breaking of the World will be the breaking of RJ's current Pangaea into realistic continents like ours today.

2. Rand's children with something different about them will be the great ancestors/forerunners of the new races of men.

My final concluding point in my theory's favour is that name of the final book itself - A Memory of Light. All that will remain at the end is a memory of the One Power and all the legends associated with it.

It could make WOT the absolute undisputed greatest fantasy series in everyone's eyes, because it shows the balls to make the absolute coolest link that no other series has made, between fantasy fiction and true mythology.

I'm an Indian and I have read our own mythological epics. This future I am predicting for the Fourth Age resembles to a large extent the same kind of lives that a lot of Indians live now. Greeks may feel similarly. We read of heroes who had blessings from the Gods to fight great wars and use superhuman magical powers. Such stories are mythologies for most of us but also considered actual history by a lot of people, because I think ours is the only country left where prehistoric myth is linked to an actively practiced religion as well. Also, these mythologies (the Indian as well as the Greek) have been obvious inspiration to the works of JRR Tolkien as well as RJ. JRR never made this sort of union of the two worlds because he never explained magical powers the way RJ did.

Anyway, this above is not the deciding factor in my theory. The other points before were.

I really feel RJ would be likely to plan something like this for the end. A Memory of Light seems such an apt title.

I'm sorry I haven't gone on and on with more and more data. It's an old forum discussion law that the longer the post, the more serious the contributor. But I'm not the kind to make constant references to text and I haven't sat down and worked this out as much as I would have liked. But I have shared with some fellow WOT-addicts and we didn't find any obvious flaws. I hope you guys will find this interesting and more facts will be shared for (or against) this theory!

Phew. I'm about ready for some spiced wine now.

The Unreasoner
08-03-2011, 12:08 AM
I think some variations of this have come up before.

How do you interpret Aviendha's visions of the future?

nishantjn
08-03-2011, 12:11 AM
Her visions show flying beasts and other weapons which CAN be easily explained by technology in my opinion. Also, a world without the One Power would be quite helpless in the face of such technology.

Every technologically crippled civilization would find magic in technology.

The Unreasoner
08-03-2011, 12:21 AM
We have evidence of people channeling after Tarmon Gaidon, if you accept the visions as a potential future:
She was Padra, daughter of the Dragon Reborn, proud Maiden of the Spear. She yanked her weapon from the neck of a dying Seanchan, then watched the rest flee through their gateway.
Light curse the one who taught the Seanchan Traveling, Padra thought. Even if their weaves aren't very elegant.

She was convinced that no living person understood the One Power as she and her siblings did. She'd been able to weave since she'd been a child, and her brothers and sister were the same. To them, it was natural, and all others who channeled seemed awkward by comparison.

She was careful not to speak that way. Aes Sedai and Wise Ones didn't like being reminded of their shortcomings. It was true nonetheless.

It depends on how you see the quote. There is use of technology too, but this potential world presumably is true except for any changes Aviendha is responsible for. Directly or indirectly.

nishantjn
08-03-2011, 12:26 AM
You're right. A lot, in my theory, depends on how accurate Aviendha's visions are in terms of being predictions of the future.

More thinking on this will definitely be useful!

The Unreasoner
08-03-2011, 12:33 AM
Not necessarily. There IS evidence for what you theorize. If you see Aviendha's visions as the equivalent of what the Oracle told Neo in the Matrix (not necessarily true, but what she needed to see), then your position is still strong.

Not sure about the second Breaking bit, seems like that bit goes against the theme of the books.

AbbeyRoad
08-03-2011, 01:53 AM
I've seen the theory come up many times before, and is certainly has credibility. It wouldn't be such a bad ending at all either, in my estimation. RJ has always tried to tie in his series into real world myths, and this outcome is not far-fetched by any means.

It could make WOT the absolute undisputed greatest fantasy series in everyone's eyes, because it shows the balls to make the absolute coolest link that no other series has made, between fantasy fiction and true mythology.
Let's hold our horses on this statement. I'm a huge WoT fan, but tying fantasy into reality has certainly been done many times before by many different authors, and this ending would in no way make WoT "the greatest fantasy series" in my eyes, despite how much I do enjoy the series.

Weiramon
08-03-2011, 01:54 AM
Burn my soul, you could call it the Linear Theory.

Ishara
08-03-2011, 08:35 AM
I think some variations of this have come up before.

How do you interpret Aviendha's visions of the future?

We have no evidentiary proof to consider that the visions were true or untrue. At this point they were simply visions and their veracity has yet to be determined, so your theory has merit.

How would you integrate the items from Ages past found in the Panarch's Palace (for example), such as the elephant skeleton and the Mercedes hood ornament?

The Unreasoner
08-03-2011, 10:55 AM
Burn my soul, you could call it the Linear Theory.

I still think a beginning of linear time would be the best end for the series, and I'm hoping against hope for it.

(also, love the triple italics, only visible when quoting lol)

@Ishara
Not sure why you quoted me there...I never claimed as fact that there was any truth to the visions.

Ishara
08-03-2011, 12:24 PM
@Ishara
Not sure why you quoted me there...I never claimed as fact that there was any truth to the visions.

Because your post referenced interpreting the visions? Don't be defensive, being quoted isn't a bad thing. ;)

JOS
08-03-2011, 12:57 PM
We have no evidentiary proof to consider that the visions were true or untrue. At this point they were simply visions and their veracity has yet to be determined, so your theory has merit.

The ter'angreal used for the Accepted test at the White Tower, the Three Rings at Rhuidean, and even the portal stones seem to show possible and probable futures. What does this mean about Aviendha's vision in the columns? Probably was a similar mechanism. No evidence that I have found shows that it was less like the other ter'angral and more like Min "reading" of the pattern. I think the columns show the most probable outcome if she and the Aiel fail to embrace the Way of the Leaf. Does this leave the door open for the coming age to be without channeling? I think it is possible. Myself, I doubt the Fourth Age is a time without channeling. We can be fairly certain that there is at least one age without channeling or knowledge of the True Source (First Age), but how many ages are there without the knowledge and/or ability?

How would you integrate the items from Ages past found in the Panarch's Palace (for example), such as the elephant skeleton and the Mercedes hood ornament?

Can they be from the past and the future? Probably not. Our "Age" will come again if it is really in the cycle, but the hood ornament seems to imply that our current age or turn of the wheel occurred prior to the Age depicted in the books. Which would mean that we are part of circular time already. If Mercedes is reinvented every seven ages or so, I guess we could still be part of a future Age. Since we aleady seem to be included in the cycles, I would say the linear time theory is unlikely.

Zombie Sammael
08-03-2011, 03:31 PM
I've said it before, I'll say it again: Avi's vision is the Chekov's Gun of prophecies. You don't put a vision of doom in the first act unless the future gets changed by the fifth. Of course, in this case Avi's vision would be completely altered by OP use disappearing entirely; in any case, I don't think it's a very good guide to anything we can expect for after the LB.

However, I also don't think it's very likely that the OP will disappear at the end of TG for a similar reason; too much has been set up regarding structures surrounding the OP and the effects on channelers of losing the ability to channel for it to be a satisfying conclusion to the story. The appearance of the Asha'man, Egwene's gathering in of the channelers, the cleansing of Saidin, and even the behaviour of the Seanchan all seem to imply that what will come again, as a result of the schools and a resurgence in use of the OP, is an age of enlightenment. Whether that will be under the Seanchan or free under the Dragon's Peace is another question entirely.

Regarding the necessity of there eventually coming an age when the power is lost, I think this will come when, at the end of the seventh age, humanity is also either wiped out or almost wiped out, reducing humans to a primitive stage in their development. Eventually they would rediscover how to channel, possibly as a response to some greater threat. I'm actually working on something that deals with this very idea right now!

Ishara
08-03-2011, 08:30 PM
The answer to that question is in my sig. ;)

Lupusdeusest
08-03-2011, 10:51 PM
I'm going to be that person who brings up that RJ said there was nothing special about this Turning of the Wheel.
(Although how this gels with his comments about Fain sidestepping the Pattern I am not sure.)

There needs to be a pokerface icon.

Zombie Sammael
08-04-2011, 04:48 AM
It could make WOT the absolute undisputed greatest fantasy series in everyone's eyes, because it shows the balls to make the absolute coolest link that no other series has made, between fantasy fiction and true mythology.

Actually, Tolkien set out with exactly this goal when he started on The Silmarillion in 1917. That book does have the majesty and wonder of true mythology, you should really check it out if you haven't already.

JOS
08-04-2011, 10:23 AM
Actually, Tolkien set out with exactly this goal when he started on The Silmarillion in 1917. That book does have the majesty and wonder of true mythology, you should really check it out if you haven't already.

The Silmarillion is not exactly exciting narrative though ... I had to listen to it on tape while commuting to get through the whole thing. Felt more like background research on tLotR, which I was happy to do, but not on par with reading Fellowship or The Hobbit.

GonzoTheGreat
08-04-2011, 10:49 AM
It could make WOT the absolute undisputed greatest fantasy series in everyone's eyes, because it shows the balls to make the absolute coolest link that no other series has made, between fantasy fiction and true mythology.Well, there is Robert Silverberg's Gilgamesh the King from 1984. That's not a series, admittedly.

Then there is the Discworld series by Terry Pratchett, which would probably count as "even cooler" by any standard you would care to set. I do not think it is possible to decide which is better, Discworld or WoT, but the Librarian is cooler than Herid Fel, and the Patrician is way cooler than Elaida.

Zombie Sammael
08-04-2011, 11:05 AM
The Silmarillion is not exactly exciting narrative though ... I had to listen to it on tape while commuting to get through the whole thing. Felt more like background research on tLotR, which I was happy to do, but not on par with reading Fellowship or The Hobbit.

I couldn't disagree more. It is difficult language used, but this is obviously intentional to give the language the sense of beauty and wonder it holds; a beauty which Tolkien's more well-known work only occasionally achieves, by design - it's the more Silmarillion-y bits of LOTR that have the prose of Silmarillion. As for the narrative, what is unexciting about WAR OF THE GODS?

JOS
08-04-2011, 12:07 PM
I couldn't disagree more. It is difficult language used, but this is obviously intentional to give the language the sense of beauty and wonder it holds; a beauty which Tolkien's more well-known work only occasionally achieves, by design - it's the more Silmarillion-y bits of LOTR that have the prose of Silmarillion. As for the narrative, what is unexciting about WAR OF THE GODS?

It felt like a matter of fact history as opposed to first hand accounts of heroism.

Another way of putting this, the subject matter of the Silmarillion is definitely in its own class of uber-awesomeness, but to me the language made it feel more like a textbook than a novel.

To a master of language like Tolkien, the Silmarillion was the "bee's knees", but I am far from a master of even one language, and prefer most of my reading to be more playful than wondrous.

I guess at the end of the day, I am more of a hobbit than an elf.

the_collective
08-04-2011, 12:27 PM
It is difficult language used, but this is obviously intentional to give the language the sense of beauty and wonder it holds; a beauty which Tolkien's more well-known work only occasionally achieves, by design - it's the more Silmarillion-y bits of LOTR that have the prose of Silmarillion.

I agree that the prose can be difficult to get through. It seemed to me that it was mostly written as if it were a history book recording actual events put down by an impartial scholar. I think what Zombie was referring to in the earlier post on the subject was that this style of writing served to create the same sense of realism in the reader's mind that you're saying RJ is going for here; as if the reader were learning about actual magical events of the real-world past.

I would be Brown Ajah if I were Aes Sedai, so the scholarly no-dialogue, just-the-facts approach didn't put me off to it any. I'm glad of this, as it allowed me to finish reading the entire book and it is possibly my favorite single book of all time. It's certainly the most sadness-inducing, yet beautiful book I've come across. For all its lack of putting the reader "into the action" so to speak, with dialogue and play-by-play points of view, it moved me a great deal.

Ishara
08-04-2011, 01:27 PM
The Silmarillion is not exactly exciting narrative though ... I had to listen to it on tape while commuting to get through the whole thing. Felt more like background research on tLotR, which I was happy to do, but not on par with reading Fellowship or The Hobbit.

Partly because it was. You have to remember that the Silmarillion was cobbled together from notes that were not left organized in a neat pile. Christopher Tolkien and Guy Gavriel Kay worked together on pulling together notes, drawings and extrapolating/ infering where there were gaps to create the Silmarillion. Even to this day, they both refuse to discuss just how of it they wrote and how much was found in JRRT's notes.

Then there is the Discworld series by Terry Pratchett, which would probably count as "even cooler" by any standard you would care to set. I do not think it is possible to decide which is better, Discworld or WoT, but the Librarian is cooler than Herid Fel, and the Patrician is way cooler than Elaida. Completely agreed. Just started them this year and they have been, with a few glaring exceptions, some of the best books I've read. Funny, topical, poignant...excellent reading and always good food for thought there.

Zombie Sammael
08-04-2011, 02:53 PM
Partly because it was. You have to remember that the Silmarillion was cobbled together from notes that were not left organized in a neat pile. Christopher Tolkien and Guy Gavriel Kay worked together on pulling together notes, drawings and extrapolating/ infering where there were gaps to create the Silmarillion. Even to this day, they both refuse to discuss just how of it they wrote and how much was found in JRRT's notes.

You can get a reasonable idea, I think, by reading the History of Middle Earth (HOME) series, but even then they picked and chose which bits were ready enough for publication.

nishantjn
08-11-2011, 08:02 AM
Guys, I agree that killing off the OP would be an incredibly cruel thing to do considering how fantastically the whole structure has been created by RJ.

About Aviendha's visions, I think they were always meant to be possibilities and not actual exact foretellings.

I must say, after reading through this discussion, I am 100x more curious as to how RJ intended to marry both OP and technology in the 4th age. Because I don't think the invention of controlled electricity and the steam engine are things that are just to be allowed to fade away. They've been mentioned just once, in a not-entirely-relevant-to-the-immediate-narrative kinda way, which is RJ's signature style of telling us to watch out for major clues/hints!

As for the Silmarillion vs WoT vs Discworld discussion, I cant speak about Discworld, that is still a series I have to get into. But The Silmarillion did make for very difficult reading. :P I guess it being a collection of notes and ideas, as has been already mentioned here, would have something to do with it.

The Unreasoner
08-11-2011, 08:16 AM
Silmarillion was actually my 2nd favorite. It just conveyed a raw sense of awe for Tolkien's world. LotR was #1, and The Hobbit is meh.

It is interesting to wonder though...
If DO is essentially = TP (or at least would be neutered without it)
If TP and OP annihilate one another when...mixed?
If the Wheel would stop without the OP
If a stopped Wheel => Linear Time
Then...
Killing the Dark One is possible, but would permanently end channeling and circular time. In fact, maybe Time is a loop/wheel only because the Dark One exists, and the One Power is the means to destroy him. Humanity has the means to defeat the Dark One, but as long as it is content to reseal him instead, humanity is trapped in circular time.




I think I have to modify one of my 'theories in progress' now. Thanks nishantjn

nishantjn
08-11-2011, 08:20 AM
yeah that sounds interesting too.

this is turning out to be a conflict in my head though. circular time is something i wouldnt want to ruin. its too cool a concept.

The Unreasoner
08-11-2011, 08:23 AM
lol maybe it's why I like the idea of a plausible end to circular time so much- I feel suffocated by the notion.

Weiramon
08-11-2011, 10:01 AM
Because I don't think the invention of controlled electricity and the steam engine are things that are just to be allowed to fade away. They've been mentioned just once, in a not-entirely-relevant-to-the-immediate-narrative kinda way, which is RJ's signature style of telling us to watch out for major clues/hints!



It would not be a surprise to hear of these steam engines, or wagons if you will, roaming back and forth between Tear and Cairhien.

Burn my eyes, but these new-fangled ideas are an affront! Imagine trying to replace horses as our beasts of burden! What's next, having these steam wagons replace the peasants working the fields?

The Unreasoner
08-11-2011, 10:27 AM
You really should listen to Weiramon, those steam-engines have gotten more attention than you might think.

Lupusdeusest
08-11-2011, 05:53 PM
I actually found The Silmarillion the most bearable of Tolkein's works. My father gave me copies of all his works when I was 6, and, whilst the worldbuilding of LotR received some compliments, the writing received a rather stinging critique. TS, on the other had, was vastly enjoyed. (Spot the Aspie, methinks.) It would be another 4 years until I had my first WoT encounter - the PC game, would you believe it - and another 5 months after that before I read EotW for the first time. It only took 1.5 yrs before I had up to the newly-published WH, after the purchase of which my mother promptly confiscated and hid the lot of them as I was "too interested" in them.
As for the integration of Power and Tech - Have we seen any Healing techs?

The Unreasoner
08-11-2011, 06:13 PM
You read The Silmarillion at 6?
And I thought I was bright.

Davian93
08-11-2011, 07:24 PM
The Tolkien comments brought this theory/thread to mind from the Main Board (yes, there is another part to Theoryland)

http://www.theoryland.com/theories.php?func=5&rec=77&theo=1415

It was a fun discussion...that sadly has comments from me that are 8 years old.

~feels old now~

Lupusdeusest
08-12-2011, 07:38 AM
You read The Silmarillion at 6?
And I thought I was bright.

Mum said I was born holding a book and that is why she had to have a Caesarian.

The Unreasoner
08-12-2011, 02:25 PM
I did simple arithmetic w/algebra at six. And I could read. But The Silmarillion would have been well beyond my ability. Good for you!
*youngling rep*