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Ishara
08-05-2011, 10:05 PM
To recap the concept:

First, pop over here (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=5669) for the main thread, to see our list of upcoming characters.

I’d like discussions to link back to any existing theories, threads and ideas, but let’s try and integrate them into new theories, thoughts and ideas okay? This is less to do with whether we “like” characters – we are Theorylanders, and we are not vapid. If you want to be a Theorylander, practice thinking critically and objectively. Don’t worry, we’ll help!

(And remember: a new character of the week does preclude continuing discussion on past topics!)

This week, we'll be discussing: Lord Dobraine of House Taborwin.

Dobraine is the highest ranking lord in Cairhien, and High Seat of House Taborwin. He's a seasoned veteran of both the Sun Court's intrigues and battles in the field.

We know that after Colavere was left alone to contemplate her future, Dobraine was left alone with her at the last. I wonder what he said to her, and if that had any impact on her decision to kill herself? What we do know for sure is that he lead the Cairhienin nobles in swearing fealty to Rand in the Sun Palace, thus handing him his first nation.

When Rand was kidnapped, Dobraine not only lead the Cairhienin army in the battle at Dumai's Wells, but he was also integral in the rescue planning. Duty? Obligation? Prudence?

Rand (as he does) flip flops between thinking that Dobraine is the only one of the nobles that might actually be loyal to him and thinking that he's insincere and insisting that he not gain too much power in any one place.

Since his introduction, no other noble has worked for Rand as much or as successfully as Dobraine. First he was made Steward, and then Regent in Cairhien, then he was assigned the impossible task of securing Bandar Eban, and then perhaps a victim of his own success, Rand sent him to Tear.

Admittedly, I don't see much intrigue to Dobraine. Aside from his place of birth, he strikes me a steadfast, loyal and acutely intelligent leader who is willing to do what must be done to effect his Lord's commands. He seems to be faithful, and in fact I would argue that he's never given us a reason to consider him not to be. While clearly frustrated that he's not allowed to complete a task, or do a job to his best efforts (namely rebuild and command Cairhien), he accedes to Rand's commands.

The one issue worth discussing that I can think of is the attack on Dobraine in the Prologue of Crown of Thorns. We assume the Shadow? But conspirators? Why? It is linked to the attack on Bashere's tent. For the Seals?

Just a reminder, these are my own musings on the character - you're free to bring up your own, these are simply meant to get the discussion rolling.

The Unreasoner
08-06-2011, 01:20 AM
NOTE: I was logged out while posting, and only managed to get a portion of my original post from notepad
RJ: The first inspiration was the thought of what it was really like to be tapped as the savior of mankind. In a lot of books that have somebody who is the "chosen one" if you will, it seems that the world quickly divides into allies who are strongly behind the "chosen one" and the evil guys. It seemed to me that if somebody is chosen to be the savior, there is going to be a good bit of resistance, both "Let this cup pass from me," and a lot of people who aren't going to be that happy to have a savior show up, even if they are on his side nominally. That established, I began to think about the world.

A recurring theme of the books is that no one character, however powerful, can do it all. Dobraine's importance is confirmed by Min:
“You have to do something,” Min muttered, folding her arms beneath her breasts. “Logain’s aura still speaks of glory, stronger than ever. Maybe he still thinks he’s the real Dragon Reborn. And there’s something . . . dark . . . in the images I saw around Lord Davram. If he turns against you, or dies . . . I heard one of the soldiers say Lord Dobraine might die. Losing even one of them would be a blow. Lose all three, and it might take you a year to recover.”
His loyalty is shown time and time again, and is reinforced with his con.
Consider:
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100211193147/wot/images/thumb/0/0d/Dobraine_Taborwin_con.jpg/100px-Dobraine_Taborwin_con.jpg
The white represents purity, peace, and sincerity, while the blue represents truth and loyalty. Fitting, considering Dobraine's nature. Absolutely loyal, and almost free of ambition. It even calls to mind Perrin's thoughts on leadership. He is the ideal leader of the Fourth Age: approved by the Dragon, just, and noble.

Consider the following from heraldry:
http://www.fleurdelis.com/graphics/scales2.gif
These scales, representing justice, are remarkably similar to the con of Dobraine.

Rand has already begun to cede power to Dobraine. He had final say over Darlin's appointment, and grants Idrien Tarsin the means to provide a legacy of the Dragon.

Dobraine is a necessary agent of the Will of the Pattern, he is essentially the shambayan of the world. His willingness to put his faith in the Pattern and its Champion set his path, and his (rare) competence allows him to walk it.

skaywalker
08-06-2011, 01:42 AM
Since his introduction, no other noble has worked for Rand as much or as successfully as Dobraine. First he was made Steward, and then Regent in Cairhien, then he was assigned the impossible task of securing Bandar Eban, and then perhaps a victim of his own success, Rand sent him to Tear.

Admittedly, I don't see much intrigue to Dobraine. Aside from his place of birth, he strikes me a steadfast, loyal and acutely intelligent leader who is willing to do what must be done to effect his Lord's commands. He seems to be faithful, and in fact I would argue that he's never given us a reason to consider him not to be. While clearly frustrated that he's not allowed to complete a task, or do a job to his best efforts (namely rebuild and command Cairhien), he accedes to Rand's commands.

This!
It's good for a change to see someone other than the Aiel and the main young heroes working for Rand. And doing that out of duty and loyalty, not for some complicated schemes(although Dobraine being from Caihrien you never know).



The one issue worth discussing that I can think of is the attack on Dobraine in the Prologue of Crown of Thorns. We assume the Shadow? But conspirators? Why? Is it linked to the attack on Bashere's tent later on in the series?

Just a reminder, these are my own musings on the character - you're free to bring up your own, these are simply meant to get the discussion rolling.

You got me confused or you're confusing the books. The only attack on Dobraine happened in the prologue of Crossroads of Twilight and it's definitely linked with the attack on Bashere's tent. They happen on the same day or within a few days of each other. The style is the same - the attackers have a note with a perfect copy of Bashere's and Dobraine's writing and sigil. And if the target really were the seals, that only proves Dobraine's loyalty. Even Rand's enemies think of him as a faithful and loyal follower.

The only concern is the style. If the targets were the seals and if a Forsaken is behind them why choosing some thugs? Why not Grey man who will be far more successful?

Ishara
08-06-2011, 03:56 PM
This!
You got me confused or you're confusing the books. The only attack on Dobraine happened in the prologue of Crossroads of Twilight and it's definitely linked with the attack on Bashere's tent. They happen on the same day or within a few days of each other. The style is the same - the attackers have a note with a perfect copy of Bashere's and Dobraine's writing and sigil. And if the target really were the seals, that only proves Dobraine's loyalty. Even Rand's enemies think of him as a faithful and loyal follower.

The only concern is the style. If the targets were the seals and if a Forsaken is behind them why choosing some thugs? Why not Grey man who will be far more successful?

Thanks for clarifying - I was writing this stuff up off the top of my head! But yeah, who? And for the Seals? Because if Rand is right, then the Shadow should want them safe and sound and hidden, no?

Terez
08-06-2011, 04:02 PM
Moridin's complacency about the seals in KOD suggests that he knows what Rand will do and supports it. The other Forsaken don't seem to share this view, so likely Moridin knows something they don't.

GonzoTheGreat
08-06-2011, 04:19 PM
There is also my theory that it depends on the time (and perhaps what precisely has or hasn't happened by then) whether the DO wants the seals broken yet, or would prefer to have that happen later.
I think that the DO can gain an advantage from having a seal break at the right time, so for him, having them break at another time is something to be avoided.

If I'm right, then shortly after the attacks on Bashere and Dobraine was such a "right time". While when Taim presented his seal to Rand was a wrong time for breaking it.

I also think that is why Rand will have to break the seals during or right after his meeting at the Field of Merrilor. If he waits too long, the DO will break them, and gain a big advantage from that. Testing this theory is a bit tricky, of course. How many control universes would I need, and where do I find 100 identical Dark Ones?

Terez
08-06-2011, 04:26 PM
Let's not forget about the guys who were after Domon in TGH.

Sei'taer
08-07-2011, 06:49 PM
The only thing that bothers me about Dobraine is that he is Cairheinian and the game makes them trustworthy until the decide not to be trustworthy anymore. I'm still undecided on him. Maybe as I get farther along in my re-read my feelings will change. For right now, I don't trust him.

Ishara
08-07-2011, 10:26 PM
Exactly Taer. I like him, but I don't trust him. And I feel like a jerk for feeling that way since he's never given us any reason, behind his nationality, to feel that way. It's all a wait and see kind of game at this point...

Terez
08-08-2011, 01:49 AM
It's hard to distrust someone that Loial likes so much. Especially someone who is clearly not a Darkfriend (or else the attack wouldn't have been necessary). One thing interesting that I don't think has been mentioned...Dobraine's...sister? Cousin? Is Breane Taborwin, Morgase's lady-in-waiting and Lamgwin's girl. She was one of the ones who flirted with Rand at Barthanes' house, and specifically, she was the older, more experienced one who pushed all of the younger ones aside. Thom commented on her reputation.

Ishara
08-08-2011, 08:04 AM
LOL - I thought about mentioning that, but figured she's a pretty open book too. I don't think she'd be his sister though. He's far too loyal to just let his sister disappear and end up some penniless strongarm's gal.

Do we think she wanted to escape the confines of Cairhien society, or that she got caught up and lost everything? I favour the latter, given her attitude now.

Juan
08-08-2011, 08:35 AM
My take is that since Dobraine rhymes with Moiraine, he must be a good guy. :P

Really though, he sorta slipped my mind in that I really didn't find him that important. Although thinking back, I agree with sentiments here. I like guy but am a bit distrustful because he is from where he is. Then again, he could be the exception to the rule. Meaning he's the one guy who doesn't like all those house games for power etc.

finnssss
08-08-2011, 12:09 PM
My take is that since Dobraine rhymes with Moiraine, he must be a good guy. :P

Really though, he sorta slipped my mind in that I really didn't find him that important. Although thinking back, I agree with sentiments here. I like guy but am a bit distrustful because he is from where he is. Then again, he could be the exception to the rule. Meaning he's the one guy who doesn't like all those house games for power etc.

*Cough*Talmanes*Cough* ;)

Terez
08-08-2011, 12:14 PM
Do we think she wanted to escape the confines of Cairhien society, or that she got caught up and lost everything? I favour the latter, given her attitude now.
I suspect ta'veren had something to do with it, but that's not very helpful, is it? They could be siblings, with bad blood. Hard to say.

As for Talmanes, he's a pretty typical noble, despite being caught up with Mat. He was almost as bad as Nalesean in insisting that Mat have the proper frills, and in insisting that the commanders of the Band be nobles.

GonzoTheGreat
08-08-2011, 12:18 PM
As for Talmanes, he's a pretty typical noble, despite being caught up with Mat. He was almost as bad as Nalesean in insisting that Mat have the proper frills, and in insisting that the commanders of the Band be nobles.But he hasn't really been playing the Game of Houses, has he? Or perhaps he's a really subtle player.

Terez
08-08-2011, 12:22 PM
He hasn't had much opportunity, though I'm sure he held his own with Roedran, and he did pretty well with Egwene out on the ice.

PS - The subtle players are, after all, generally the best. The idiot Rand met in Tremonsien (Candevwin?) was far from a subtle player.

Sei'taer
08-08-2011, 12:32 PM
My take is that since Dobraine rhymes with Moiraine, he must be a good guy. :P

Really though, he sorta slipped my mind in that I really didn't find him that important. Although thinking back, I agree with sentiments here. I like guy but am a bit distrustful because he is from where he is. Then again, he could be the exception to the rule. Meaning he's the one guy who doesn't like all those house games for power etc.

He plays. All the nobles play to some extent or another. I think he's either very subtle (and therefore, very good) or he's just biding his time and waiting for opportunity and amazed at everything that Rand keeps handing him that he can just file away for use later.

GonzoTheGreat
08-08-2011, 12:34 PM
Oh, he can play the game, but as far as I know, he has not used his position in the Band to advance the prospects of his House at all.
Both with Roedran and with Egwene he was acting to benefit the Band, not his own House nor his own glory.

Compare his attitude to that of Weiramon, and the difference is fairly striking. Even discounting the fact that Weiramon is a bit less competent.

Terez
08-08-2011, 12:35 PM
Oh, he can play the game, but as far as I know, he has not used his position in the Band to advance the prospects of his House at all.
That's because he no longer cares about his House - he abandoned it to follow a ta'veren. Probably he was a minor member of the House and didn't stand to lose much, but there it is. He definitely played his cards right when Mat first gave him orders at the Battle of Cairhien. "I'll do it - if you lead half." Good move, that. It secured his position with the Band, which is all he cares about now.

Weiramon
08-08-2011, 12:48 PM
Both with Roedran and with Egwene he was acting to benefit the Band, not his own House nor his own glory.



Burn my soul, this man is no Lord! Putting a band of commoners ahead of House and glory!

No doubt he will die alone on the field of battle, with only a single servant at his side. He can put some of that Two Rivers tabac in his pipe and smoke it.

Kimon
08-08-2011, 01:26 PM
He plays. All the nobles play to some extent or another. I think he's either very subtle (and therefore, very good) or he's just biding his time and waiting for opportunity and amazed at everything that Rand keeps handing him that he can just file away for use later.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if there was some element of self-serving pragmatism to his position to align himself with Rand, but it's difficult to fathom anything really suspicious about him. Min has had ample opportunity to view him, and has not only never seen anything suspicious, but seems to honestly like him. If it was just Rand, I'd be more willing to file it away as another possible case of bad judge of character (certainly Weiramon isn't the only case of a bad dude that Rand/Lews Therin liked, seeing as he was apparently once friends with, or at the very least trusting of, Be'lal and Sammael), but Min seems a more reliable stamp of approval. I'm still far more suspicious of Bashere. With him we have both the fact that Min's "something dark" has yet to be explained, and the attack on him actually ended up targeting his wife, not him, and much of the Saldaean nobility (basically everyone but Faile) seems suspect.

Terez
08-08-2011, 01:30 PM
It's hard to suspect Bashere when we got that scene in his POV, and it led him to taking Logain up on his offer to find Rand - a desperate move. (Logain apparently required Bashere's authority to approach Rand.) I expect the 'something dark' to have to do with the Legion of the Dragon, or his death.

FelixPax
08-08-2011, 01:33 PM
Burn my soul, this man is no Lord!

Weiramon weren't you and Dobraine bosom buddies in the Dragon's Spine Horse Academy of Military Strategy & Tactics? Charge!

Granted your far more smooth than Dobraine ever was, with words and women. ;)


Putting a band of commoners ahead of House and glory!

Oh, is not the Dragon a commoner too? Is that duck eggs on your goatee, I see?

No doubt he will die alone on the field of battle, with only a single servant at his side. He can put some of that Two Rivers tabac in his pipe and smoke it.

From noble to stone, like "one tall stone spike in the middle of a flat plain"? :eek:


Isn't hard to keep a straight face, when reading a Weiramon thread posting? Keep up your good work. :)



BTW: I'm about a 1/3 of the way through a write-up a Dobraine character analysis. I'm unsure whether to place it in this Thread or not. Length already is an issue. Perhaps a link to instead?

Terez
08-08-2011, 01:35 PM
No doubt he will die alone on the field of battle, with only a single servant at his side. He can put some of that Two Rivers tabac in his pipe and smoke it.
From noble to stone, like "one tall stone spike in the middle of a flat plain"? :eek:

Isn't hard to keep a straight face, when reading a Weiramon thread posting? Keep up your good work. :)
Agreed. I repped him for that post, which probably flew right over most people's heads.

Perhaps a link to instead?
A link would be nice.

Weiramon
08-08-2011, 01:42 PM
Oh, is not the Dragon a commoner too? Is that duck eggs on your goatee, I see?


Burn me, the Lord Dragon may be the son of a Queen of Andor for all we know. Illegitimate no doubt, but more than one Lord has taken that path to Nobility.

FelixPax
08-08-2011, 02:05 PM
Burn me, the Lord Dragon may be the son of a Queen of Andor for all we know. Illegitimate no doubt, but more than one Lord has taken that path to Nobility.

Chuckles, oh yes one acknowledged Lord Dragon is a son of a Daughter-Heir of Andor, Tigraine Mantear. Illegitimate, tis true.

Would you follow a minor Noble who in your words was 'a jumped up farmer', as Lord Dragon? Or a Tuatha'an cast out? One legitimate, another illegitimate.

Matrim Cauthon. Valan Luca.


That is if one believe's a hypothesis that Matrim Cauthon will publicly take on the Lord Dragon's identity in the near future--from Rand al'Thor. In addition to, Valan Luca is the true blind Dragon, born of a maid wed to no man.


Question for Dobraine's character, is what will he do when Rand al'Thor dies? Whom shall he follow? Why?

finnssss
08-08-2011, 02:06 PM
As for Talmanes, he's a pretty typical noble, despite being caught up with Mat. He was almost as bad as Nalesean in insisting that Mat have the proper frills, and in insisting that the commanders of the Band be nobles.

Again though, just because he is good at it or has a need to play the "Game", doesn't mean he likes it or wants to. That was the context I was referring to after all.
The shaving and powdering of his forehead in the soilder's fashion seems to belay where his true feelings lay IMO.


In addition to, Valan Luca is the true blind Dragon, born of a maid wed to no man.



Damn it Felix, I thought you said Luca was Fain's brother? :D

Terez
08-08-2011, 02:11 PM
Again though, just because he is good at it or has a need to play the "Game", doesn't mean he likes it or wants to.
You could say the same about Thom.

The shaving and powdering of his forehead in the soilder's fashion seems to belay where his true feelings lay IMO.
All that says is that he accepted the reality of the situation in Cairhien. They were at war, with no end in sight, and many of the nobility started shaving and powdering their heads during that time (that is, between the assassination of Galldrian and the Shaido invasion).

finnssss
08-08-2011, 02:20 PM
You could say the same about Thom.

Not sure I would say that though. I get the impression that Thom genuinely enjoys playing it more often than not.
Provided it's played for the right reasons, towards the proper ends, that's the key with Thom imo.


All that says is that he accepted the reality of the situation in Cairhien. They were at war, with no end in sight, and many of the nobility started shaving and powdering their heads during that time (that is, between the assassination of Galldrian and the Shaido invasion).

Fair enough, but I believe there's more to it than simply accepting the situation.
I would say that the men who relish in and enjoy the Game are not generally the ones leading charges on the field.
The wars/assaults provided an "escape" if you will, to those nobles who do not like the Game.

Terez
08-08-2011, 02:27 PM
I think most people play the Game because if you don't play it, you automatically lose. You can't just sit out - not in Cairhien. I don't think the ones who took a back seat on the battlefield necessarily enjoyed the Game more than others - they just didn't want to fight and die.

WinespringBrother
08-08-2011, 02:40 PM
Burn me, the Lord Dragon may be the son of a Queen of Andor for all we know. Illegitimate no doubt, but more than one Lord has taken that path to Nobility.

That brings up an interesting point that I don't recall having seen mentioned before... Rand was not born out of wedlock since IIRC, Tigraine aka Shaiel married Janduin. However, she never divorced Taringail. So she was married to 2 different people at the same time. And so was Taringail, since he married Morgase without divorcing Tigraine(or at least none was mentioned in the books afaik).

Terez
08-08-2011, 02:45 PM
I think in situations like that, the law probably calls for annulment or some such.

sleepinghour
08-08-2011, 03:00 PM
That brings up an interesting point that I don't recall having seen mentioned before... Rand was not born out of wedlock since IIRC, Tigraine aka Shaiel married Janduin. However, she never divorced Taringail. So she was married to 2 different people at the same time. And so was Taringail, since he married Morgase without divorcing Tigraine(or at least none was mentioned in the books afaik).

I don't think Tigraine ever married Janduin, otherwise she wouldn't have been allowed to remain a Maiden and fight in the Aiel War.

Kimon
08-08-2011, 03:09 PM
I don't think Tigraine ever married Janduin, otherwise she wouldn't have been allowed to remain a Maiden and fight in the Aiel War.

She wasn't. Here is Bain's explanation from TDR Ch 38:

When we wed the spear, we pledge to be bound to no man or child. Some do give up the spear, for a man or child...but once given up, the spear cannot be taken back.

Then from Amys (tSR Ch 34)

A Maiden is forbidden to carry the spear while she carries a child. But Janduin could forbid her nothing

If she had married him, she would have invalidated the prophecy, as she would then have no longer been wed to the spear, no longer been a "maiden".

So if anything her only polygamy was with the spear, not with Janduin...

Terez
08-08-2011, 03:12 PM
The Maidens apparently knew about her husband when allowing her to take the spear, too.

Kimon
08-08-2011, 03:19 PM
The Maidens apparently knew about her husband when allowing her to take the spear, too.

Yeah, but taking the spear and becoming a Maiden was essentially a legal recognition of an annulment of her prior marriage, or at the very least of divorce. Taking Janduin as a lover is obviously fine, actually marrying him however would have forced her to have given up the spear. Speaking of which, I can't help but wonder if Bain and Chiad's hesitancy with Gaul is really more about trying to get him to love Bain as much as Chiad, or really just that neither of them are willing to give up the spear.

Terez
08-08-2011, 03:22 PM
I can't help but wonder if Bain and Chiad's hesitancy with Gaul is really more about trying to get him to love Bain as much as Chiad
haha, I totally got the impression it was the other way around. He was very hesitant about Chiad at first because she is Goshien, but because neither of them will accept a man without the other, he focused his attention on Chiad to show that he was willing to accept even a Goshien for Bain.

I imagine they're reluctant to give up the spear, but Gaul is a nice catch, seeing as how he'll supposedly be clan chief one day. If they weren't seriously considering it, it wouldn't have gone on so long. They let him know in some way that they were interested.

Kimon
08-08-2011, 03:45 PM
haha, I totally got the impression it was the other way around. He was very hesitant about Chiad at first because she is Goshien, but because neither of them will accept a man without the other, he focused his attention on Chiad to show that he was willing to accept even a Goshien for Bain.

I imagine they're reluctant to give up the spear, but Gaul is a nice catch, seeing as how he'll supposedly be clan chief one day. If they weren't seriously considering it, it wouldn't have gone on so long. They let him know in some way that they were interested.

Seriously? It certainly seems like it was Chiad who first initiated things, with her jokes about playing the Maiden's Kiss in TSR Ch 42, and then in ACoS Ch 3 Gaul says this to Perrin:

Chiad told me she would not lay a bridal wreath at my feet; she actually told me...She said she would take me for a lover, her and Bain, but no more...I do not like Bain, but I would marry her to make Chiad happy. If Chiad will not make a bridal wreath, she should stop trying to entice me. If I cannot catch her interest well enough for her to marry me, she should let me go.

Terez
08-08-2011, 03:51 PM
I'd forgotten about that. In any case, I still got the impression that it was more convoluted than it appears to be because everyone knows that you can't have one first-sister without the other, apparently (or that's what Bain and Chiad said in TDR). Even in the bit you quoted, Gaul makes it clear he thinks Chiad is breaking the rules of ji'e'toh because she's still trying to entice him after it's been made clear that their terms don't match up. But I suppose life wouldn't be any fun if you had to follow the rules all the time. And I guess they're meeting their toh now. :D

FelixPax
08-08-2011, 06:08 PM
That brings up an interesting point that I don't recall having seen mentioned before... Rand was not born out of wedlock since IIRC, Tigraine aka Shaiel married Janduin.


I mentioned that fact last month (http://theoryland.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=154160&postcount=1), in the 'Dragon Memories: Phallus Slope(s) & Essanik Cycle' thread. Remember now? If not, scroll down to Problem #2 section.


Rand al'Thor is not the Dragon.
Rand al'Thor is a False Dragon.

FelixPax
08-08-2011, 06:16 PM
I think in situations like that, the law probably calls for annulment or some such.

Incorrect.

Annulment would have created a war between Andor and Cairhien.
Tigraine was declared publicly dead.
Tigraine remained married to Taringail.
Morgase only married Taringail because of his previous marriage to Tigraine, and a link her son Galad.
Annulling Tigraine and Taringail marriage, would have transformed Galad from legitimate to an illegitimate child.

Rand al'Thor is a False Dragon. No question at all.

Sei'taer
08-08-2011, 08:54 PM
Incorrect.

Annulment would have created a war between Andor and Cairhien.
Tigraine was declared publicly dead.
Tigraine remained married to Taringail.
Morgase only married Taringail because of his previous marriage to Tigraine, and a link her son Galad.
Annulling Tigraine and Taringail marriage, would have transformed Galad from legitimate to an illegitimate child.

Rand al'Thor is a False Dragon. No question at all.

Lol, you make me laugh. You are a strange strange person.

Ishara
08-08-2011, 10:01 PM
BTW: I'm about a 1/3 of the way through a write-up a Dobraine character analysis. I'm unsure whether to place it in this Thread or not. Length already is an issue. Perhaps a link to instead?

Post it here! This is what these threads are for! :)