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Terez
08-16-2011, 04:03 PM
Today is a good day to start a thread in which we can comment on the AMOL writing process as it goes on.

[/URL][URL="http://twitter.com/#%21/BrandSanderson/status/103566081611927552"]Brandon on Twitter - 16 August 2011 (http://twitter.com/#%21/BrandSanderson/status/101768478335320064)
Working on a big climactic scene. Was going to tweet that, then realized, pretty much all of them in this book fit that description...
Terez (http://twitter.com/#%21/Terez27/status/103566685461692416)
That's good to know. It makes more sense than something like TGS or TOM with long stretches of not-much-happening.
Terez (http://twitter.com/#%21/Terez27/status/103567934017900544)
In other words, I think it will reassure the fans who doubt you can pull it off in just one more book. ;)
Brandon (http://twitter.com/#%21/BrandSanderson/status/103569654630453250)
Yeah, it's really going to be one. I'm 125k or so in, and it feels right. I'll get it all in.

Brandon (http://twitter.com/#%21/BrandSanderson/status/103613569853161473)
I'm moving the #AMoL (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23AMoL) progress bar up 2%, to 40%. Should easily hit 50% by the end of the month.Good news.

Charlz Guybon
08-16-2011, 05:56 PM
Today is a good day to start a thread in which we can comment on the AMOL writing process as it goes on. Starting with his progress report from a few days ago:

Good news.

That projects to 328,947 words. I'm a little skeptical that it can be wrapped up well in that amount of space. I hope to be proven wrong, but I'd think it needs to be in the book 4-6 size range.

Terez
08-16-2011, 06:15 PM
Yeah, that's probably why Brandon is confident...he has some leeway. He's willing to expand the size of the book from the projected wordrange he uses for his percentages.

the_collective
08-16-2011, 06:29 PM
To those few of us that are incapable of checking Twitter feeds while sitting at work due to policies against any site that allows for social communication of a potentially-distracting level (and no inclination to spend free time scrolling endlessly down Twitter through hundreds of posts missed over the course of a given week), I wish to present a giant "Thank You" to Terez for graciously providing this much-sought-after information.

:)

THANK YOU!!

Terez
08-16-2011, 06:51 PM
No problem. I just updated the OP since he gave a new percentage report.

Davian93
08-16-2011, 07:27 PM
I second the thanks, T. No twitter feed at work for me either.

jana
08-16-2011, 11:19 PM
:mad:

I just can't avoid it. Oh wait, I'm the one who came to this site.

Terez
08-17-2011, 03:32 AM
Oh come on, we only have a year to wait.

kabkaba
08-17-2011, 09:22 AM
A year? I thought it was more like Feb-March 2012 release? Are you talking about something else? I would be really pissed if it is extended any further. It is already 7 to 10 years overdue in my opinion.

Davian93
08-17-2011, 09:24 AM
A year? I thought it was more like Feb-March 2012 release? Are you talking about something else? I would be really pissed if it is extended any further. It is already 7 to 10 years overdue in my opinion.

Considering the original author fell ill and died prematurely, you should be grateful we're getting it at all.

kabkaba
08-17-2011, 02:48 PM
Most of that anger is actually at RJ.

lord Mordeth
08-17-2011, 02:54 PM
So has the release date officially been moved back from next Spring? I hadn't heard that.

Weiramon
08-17-2011, 02:58 PM
By the light, I would rather have seen another dozen books by the Creator himself, no matter how many years it took.

AbbeyRoad
08-17-2011, 03:03 PM
By the light, I would rather have seen another dozen books by the Creator himself, no matter how many years it took.
Not I. Unfortunately, my patience is only finite. Another 12 books would not have sat well with me.

Davian93
08-17-2011, 03:22 PM
Not I. Unfortunately, my patience is only finite. Another 12 books would not have sat well with me.

Potential titles for Books 15-26:

The Bathhouse Rising
The Fires of the Bath Tubs
Lady of Bathing
The Crown of Bathing
The Path of Dress Choosing
Bather's Heart
Crossroads of Closets
The Knife of Seamstresses
etc
etc

Juan
08-17-2011, 04:01 PM
Potential titles for Books 15-26:

The Bathhouse Rising
The Fires of the Bath Tubs
Lady of Bathing
The Crown of Bathing
The Path of Dress Choosing
Bather's Heart
Crossroads of Closets
The Knife of Seamstresses
etc
etc

Lmao nice. Still angry? :P

Zombie Sammael
08-17-2011, 04:03 PM
Potential titles for Books 15-26:

The Bathhouse Rising
The Fires of the Bath Tubs
Lady of Bathing
The Crown of Bathing
The Path of Dress Choosing
Bather's Heart
Crossroads of Closets
The Knife of Seamstresses
etc
etc

What about The Eye of the Plug Hole, the Great Hunt For The Soap, and the Dragon Rebathed?

the_collective
08-17-2011, 04:41 PM
Not I. Unfortunately, my patience is only finite. Another 12 books would not have sat well with me.

Originally, I'd planned to respond to this quote by saying that I don't understand people that have this point of view with regard to a series of books, since - by definition - one must wait between issues of a given serial story.

Then I thought about it and determined that it seems to boil down to the individual's need for closure. Perhaps patience plays into it, too, a bit.

Anyway, this got me curious about others' feelings on the subject. We're obviously all willing to read at least 10,000 pages of a story that we enjoy, but is this enjoyment wholly dependent upon an assumption of closure? Is this closure expected within a certain time frame before any and all interest is lost? Is this closure to be metered throughout the individual pieces of a serial in order to capture and keep interest? Is it expected that the original author(s) be the only one(s) to contribute to a serial (including fan-fic)? Is there a certain point within a given serial when it begins to become increasingly difficult to give up on a story you've grown less interested in?

Ishara
08-17-2011, 07:38 PM
Well, I think that a lot of us Heroes have been reading them for nigh on 20 years now, if not more. So I know personally, I've waited 2 years between books almost since I started reading them. Another wait won't kill me, and frankly I'm damn grateful that RJ was kind enough to bequeath to us the end of the series when he spent so much of his illness adamant that he wouldn't have it finished by someone else - which I understand. So to call folks impatient is I think a bit of a leap. It's moreso tired of having been so patient over so many years. (I acknowledge that my logic may not make sense in your world.)

I very much ascribe to the Neil Gaiman philosophy of "authors are not your bitch (http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2009/05/entitlement-issues.html)" philosophy, and I think that Brandon has done an admirable job of trying to tie up the story with the tools he had left to his disposal. I recognize that as much as having detailed notes helped, it probably also made the project more difficult in some ways since his hands were tied about sequence or structure in a lot of cases.

So while I would have loved to see the series completed by RJ, and I'm deeply sorry that he wasn't able to see it through for his own satisfaction, as much as ours, before he died, I am glad to see it come to a close. Hopefully, a glorious one.

A major issue is that the later - longer - books were in effect giant pauses in the rollicking story that we had enjoyed for the first 5-6 books. So to some it felt, with all the bath scenes etc., that the story was being dragged out for the sake of ... something. I don't like the idea that Brandon is doing the same thing - I think he is taking the time and the space he needs to finish the story properly.

Does my interest in the series wane? I wouldn't say that, but I would say that since I started it oh so many moons ago, I have developed other, as encompassing, interests that compete with WoT. I have come to put it in a place that has perspective and context within my life. And that doesn't make it less important, but it does mean that it doesn't have the priority it once did. Not a wholly articulate (or even cogent) explanation, but there it is.

Ultimately, if Brandon wanted to stop writing right now? I'd be sad, but I wouldn't feel entitled to an ending. Besides, just think of the theorizing! ;)

Terez
08-17-2011, 08:16 PM
Yeah, with the hurdles that have been overcome already to this point, I don't see how six more months is something to complain about, or even another year. Look at GRRM...six years wait for a book where not much happened, when the previous book was much the same. RJ died in 2007, and 5 years later, his series will be complete - 3 books in a shorter time than not only the space between GRRM's last two, but also the span of RJ's last three. And keep in mind, they're trying to avoid a repeat of the craptastic editing job of TOM.

Davian93
08-17-2011, 08:22 PM
Yeah, with the hurdles that have been overcome already to this point, I don't see how six more months is something to complain about, or even another year. Look at GRRM...six years wait for a book where not much happened, when the previous book was much the same. RJ died in 2007, and 5 years later, his series will be complete - 3 books in a shorter time than not only the space between GRRM's last two, but also the span of RJ's last three. And keep in mind, they're trying to avoid a repeat of the craptastic editing job of TOM.

It honestly doesnt even feel like a long wait to me. By the time I get around to a reread, I'll be pushing to get it done in time.

jacee
08-17-2011, 08:55 PM
I was in my late forties when I began the books. Still young and healthy. Well, I'm not any more. At the rate Sanderson is going, I will die before he is done. He virtually had the completed story when he began. In my opinion, he is sucking as much out of the process as he can. A process begun by Jordanson, BTW. I am seriously ill, and I do not have years or months to wait patiently for the book. Enough already! And lets not forget that I have hundreds of dollars sunk into those books already.

Terez
08-17-2011, 09:14 PM
I was in my late forties when I began the books. Still young and healthy. Well, I'm not any more. At the rate Sanderson is going, I will die before he is done.
Are you terminally ill? If you are, then Brandon might be nice enough to let you read it early if you asked nicely. If you aren't, then don't exaggerate. ;)

He virtually had the completed story when he began.This is far from the truth.

In my opinion, he is sucking as much out of the process as he can.Sucking what out of it? Time away from his own books? He's not going to get any more benefit from stretching out the process as long as he can, other than the satisfaction of knowing he made it as good as it could be.

AbbeyRoad
08-17-2011, 10:11 PM
I could wait another year two for the conclusion. I've been reading the series for ~15 years, and a couple more wouldn't kill me as long as the finished product is polished.

In response to Weiramon's post, however, I certainly stand by what I said. If I had to wait another >10 years, I wouldn't get mad at RJ or BS; I would have simply stopped buying the new releases.

Weiramon
08-17-2011, 11:37 PM
By the light, a "dozen" is a poor choice of words. Rather about ten, of which two would be prequels, three would be outriggers, three (TGS, ToM, and AMoL) written in full by the Creator, one more in the series proper to do the Black Tower justice. The time between simply whets the appetite, and there are other feasts to attend.

the_collective
08-19-2011, 02:00 PM
I very much ascribe to the Neil Gaiman philosophy of "authors are not your bitch (http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2009/05/entitlement-issues.html)"

I really enjoyed reading this little blog post of Mr. Gaiman's , Ishara, and I find it's relevant to all forms of creative media that is offered up for the consumption of others. I thank you for the link, as I'll be sharing it with others.

Daekyras
08-20-2011, 03:59 AM
I was in my late forties when I began the books. Still young and healthy. Well, I'm not any more. At the rate Sanderson is going, I will die before he is done. He virtually had the completed story when he began. In my opinion, he is sucking as much out of the process as he can. A process begun by Jordanson, BTW. I am seriously ill, and I do not have years or months to wait patiently for the book. Enough already! And lets not forget that I have hundreds of dollars sunk into those books already.
hmmmm, i was young when i started reading these books so maybe i'm in a different place than you jacee, but i cannot understand the impatience of people for the end to just "appear".
ToM felt rushed to me. A book full of, admittedly small, niggly errors that take you out of the world it is creating/perpetuating. I remember when it came out and there were lists by people suggesting it was one of the top three books in the series but even after my first read it was almost, almost a letdown.
If we have to wait a little longer to get a properly completed book and more importantly a properly completed story than i'm ok with that.
Oh, and i'm not a sanderson hater or defender. He has done what he has done. I think he has tried his best with a nearly impossible task. Oh, and this is just something for ish- i once went to a neil gaiman signing. The guy about 4 spaces in front of me handed his book over and said "mr gaiman, i love your books. You're like an american terry pratchett"
to which he replied:
"call me neil, now f**k off" and handed him back the unsigned book! It was hilarious on so many levels. The rest of the line just burst out laughing!

Davian93
08-20-2011, 11:23 AM
At least he didn't call him Terry Goodkind or Terry Brooks...

Terez
08-20-2011, 04:31 PM
Does Gaiman dislike Pratchett? I figured he was most upset about being called an American.

Daekyras
08-20-2011, 05:56 PM
Does Gaiman dislike Pratchett? I figured he was most upset about being called an American.

thats what i took it to be anyway. As for pratchett they collaberated on a book and i've never heard of a rift between them. In fact, i think they're good mates.

I imagine he was annoyed at the fact the guy showed up and said that at all when a)he's not american and b) his books are decidedly non-pratchetty.

What was most funny was the way he said it "call me neil, naow fack aoff" in a real heavy english accent...if you've ever seen the film "closer" just imagine clive owen saying that and you'd be bang on how he did it. No malice, or annoyance, just pure dismissal...

Daekyras
08-20-2011, 06:02 PM
also, @ T, kudos on 14,000 posts. Thats impressive considering that almost all of them are a cut above the average. Impressive, little lady. :)

Terez
08-20-2011, 06:25 PM
thats what i took it to be anyway. As for pratchett they collaberated on a book and i've never heard of a rift between them. In fact, i think they're good mates.
Oh yeah, I read that book. It was good, too. (This is what I get for posting pre-caffeine.)

I imagine he was annoyed at the fact the guy showed up and said that at all when a)he's not american and b) his books are decidedly non-pratchetty.This is true. People say dumb things all the time at signings; sometimes I'm amazed at how RJ just rolled with it (he had some hilarious stock answers). Brandon does too; very rarely does he get snippy with anyone.

What was most funny was the way he said it "call me neil, naow fack aoff" in a real heavy english accent...if you've ever seen the film "closer" just imagine clive owen saying that and you'd be bang on how he did it. No malice, or annoyance, just pure dismissal...I can see it. 'I'm not fucking kidding.' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7veM5_HGBFE)

Ishara
08-22-2011, 10:48 AM
I really enjoyed reading this little blog post of Mr. Gaiman's , Ishara, and I find it's relevant to all forms of creative media that is offered up for the consumption of others. I thank you for the link, as I'll be sharing it with others.

:)

"call me neil, now f**k off" and handed him back the unsigned book! It was hilarious on so many levels. The rest of the line just burst out laughing!

Ouch. But yeah, really funny.

Davian93
08-22-2011, 05:28 PM
also, @ T, kudos on 14,000 posts. Thats impressive considering that almost all of them are a cut above the average. Impressive, little lady. :)

You'd be surprised how hard it is to rack up 12,000 decidedly not above average posts...

Does Gaiman dislike Pratchett? I figured he was most upset about being called an American.

Well, that probably is the worse insult all things considered.

Terez
08-23-2011, 08:35 PM
Exciting news of the day:

Brandon (http://twitter.com/#%21/BrandSanderson/status/106123521532493824)
Blarg. This chapter and viewpoint isn't working. Going to try Thom for a bit instead. Need to be inspired by a storyteller.
First Thom POV since TSR! Woo!

alleluia_cone
08-23-2011, 11:35 PM
One has to be pretty impressed with Brandon if for nothing else than his sheer ability to grind away. As soon as he got back from Worldcon he started work on the book again. Compare this to GRRM who won't pick up on TWoW until 2012. An odd strategy in my opinion, since one of the (many) excuses he gave for the long delay for ADwD was that there was such a large gap of time between when AFfC was finished and when he picked up on ADwD again.

Enigma
08-24-2011, 07:14 AM
Brandon is certainly a hard worker to be able to churn out the last few books of the WOT and around the same time finish the first book in The Way of Kings. Not to mention I think he also has a new book in the mistborn series (havent read that series so I'm not certain).

I wonder will we remember when the book comes out that at least one pov from Thom was written by Brandon. Up till now team Jordan seemed intent on not telling which parts were RJ and which were BS.

Zombie Sammael
08-24-2011, 07:22 AM
Brandon is certainly a hard worker to be able to churn out the last few books of the WOT and around the same time finish the first book in The Way of Kings. Not to mention I think he also has a new book in the mistborn series (havent read that series so I'm not certain).

I wonder will we remember when the book comes out that at least one pov from Thom was written by Brandon. Up till now team Jordan seemed intent on not telling which parts were RJ and which were BS.

Presumably, Brandon is also editing the bits that were written by RJ to some extent when and where necessary, or finishing off outlines, so it might not be as simple as "Brandon writing a Thom POV". I think that's also probably why they are reluctant to say what is written by who.

Isabel
08-24-2011, 07:58 AM
One has to be pretty impressed with Brandon if for nothing else than his sheer ability to grind away. As soon as he got back from Worldcon he started work on the book again. Compare this to GRRM who won't pick up on TWoW until 2012. An odd strategy in my opinion, since one of the (many) excuses he gave for the long delay for ADwD was that there was such a large gap of time between when AFfC was finished and when he picked up on ADwD again.

If you remember Brandon also took a break from writing wot. Sometimes it's good and necessary for a writer to take a break.

Davian93
08-24-2011, 08:21 AM
If you remember Brandon also took a break from writing wot. Sometimes it's good and necessary for a writer to take a break.

Of course, GRRM's entire life has been one big break from his actual writing. 2 books in 10 years now...and both were not even close to the level of Storm of Swords.

alleluia_cone
08-24-2011, 01:00 PM
If you remember Brandon also took a break from writing wot. Sometimes it's good and necessary for a writer to take a break.

I acknowledge that but in the case of GRRM it might do more harm than good when the break in question is prolonged. And by prolonged I mean something in the order of six months since he finished ADwD sometime in April.

If I remember correctly, after finishing AFfC and then going on an extended campaign to promote the book, he came back to ADwD many months later and had almost unimaginable difficulty picking up on writing again. He ended up doing nothing for a year but editing what he already had and actually subtracted almost two hundred pages from the total he had started with.

Isabel
08-24-2011, 01:18 PM
If I remember correctly, after finishing AFfC and then going on an extended campaign to promote the book, he came back to ADwD many months later and had almost unimaginable difficulty picking up on writing again. He ended up doing nothing for a year but editing what he already had and actually subtracted almost two hundred pages from the total he had started with.

Well after that it also took a couple of years to finish the book :D
Perhaps his break wasn't long enough. I think he now has a break of 7 months or so.

sleepinghour
08-24-2011, 02:25 PM
Signing report from 17th Shard (http://www.17thshard.com/news/events/report-signing-with-brandon-and-peter-orullian-r52) with mentions of Theoryland. :)


How epic is the Last Battle?

Brandon Sanderson: I guess it depends on your definition of ‘epic’. I mean, it feels pretty epic to me. There’s a lot of stuff going on in this book. I hope people don’t get lost, is what I’m worried about. I mean, everything is kind of coming to a head. I can’t say much, but it’s pretty epic.

For the Last Battle how many points of view are you doing?

Brandon Sanderson: I’m using a lot of them. There’s going to be all the mainstays. Rand will get viewpoints again. Perrin, Mat, Egwene, Nynaeve, and Elayne. And there will be some Tuon, and then there will be some little shots from all over the place. The Great Captains will all be involved, so you’ll be seeing from them. You’ll be seeing from pretty much everybody. I’m trying to give at least one little scene from them if we’ve had a major perspective [from them], we’ll try to do some from them. But, you know, the core is going to be the main characters. So: the Two Rivers guys and the Wonder Girls, basically, if you follow the parlance from the websites.

Which main character is the most difficult for you to write or create?

In the Wheel of Time or my own?

In the Wheel of Time.

In the Wheel of Time, I would say getting Mat’s voice right was the hardest. Because, Mat is so distinctive, and so... yeah. It’s like he’s funny in a specific way, though. Getting him right was probably the hardest. Second would be Aviendha.

How will Bela be important at the end of Wheel of Time?

You know, Bela is either the Creator or the Dark One. We’re not, you know... (laughter). And so basically, Bela will be important in all aspects of the book, and none at the same time. Kind of like Vishnu.

I was actually wondering where to get a Mistborn shirt like the one you’re wearing.

Isaac: I don’t know if we actually sell these, but we do sell, my wife and I—

Brandon: Isaac does my t-shirts.

Isaac: —we have a t-shirt website called “InkWing.com” and we also do monthly contests too— my wife has set up a blog and she does a contest and she gives away around 3 t-shirts a month. So yeah, just go there and we have a bunch of different things. There will be some more t-shirts.

Brandon: And we link them all on my website, right?

Isaac: I think so, yeah.

Brandon: The store button on my website. We’ll eventually do a rebuild of my website where I’ll make it easier to find things. But that’s on the list, way down the list. We’re all wearing kind of official swag t-shirts today. That’s kind of cool. I’m wearing the Wheel of Time one and he’s wearing a Theoryland one— you can’t buy those because you have to be crazy to get one (laughter). Theoryland’s a Wheel of Time website.

That was all the WoT-related bits, but the rest of the interview is also an interesting read.

Jonai
08-25-2011, 12:55 AM
Personally, 26 books would have been just fine by me. And you unbelievers might not want to acknowledge it but, Crossroads of Closets would have been a damn fine novel. I can feel the header prophecy coming to me now...

In the days when dark fashion glides, when the left shawl sways, and the right bodice frays, the Wardrobe of the Pattern will come to a CROSSROADS OF CLOSETS.

May the cream-slashed silks of the Dragon once more ride on the winds of thyme.

GonzoTheGreat
08-25-2011, 04:53 AM
Are we going to get a Bela point of view?

Zombie Sammael
08-25-2011, 05:06 AM
Are we going to get a Bela point of view?

It's all Bela's POV.

maacaroni
08-25-2011, 05:07 AM
The one impression you get from Brandon is that he's a grafter. That's his writing style, he writes, writes and then writes some more...I would imagine he's got a story arc already mapped out.

GRRM is probably more organic. Nothing wrong with that, Tolkien was the same...but there's a danger of 'mission creep' and the tale growing in the telling. People forget the years between Tolkien books!

Different writers have different creative styles. Nowt wrong with that.

FelixPax
08-25-2011, 06:28 AM
Thanks for sharing Brandon's recent interview with all us TL'ers.


Biggest take away from it, I took is, Brandon's comparison of Bela to Vishnu.


Which reminds me, of this saying:


(O Lord Ganapati!) You are (the Trinity) Brahma, Vishnu, and Mahesa. You are Indra. You are fire [Agni] and air [Vāyu]. You are the sun [Sūrya] and the moon [Chandrama]. You are Brahman. You are (the three worlds) Bhuloka [earth], Antariksha-loka [space], and Swargaloka [heaven]. You are Om. (That is to say, You are all this).

In WoT terms then, who is Brahma, Mahesa, Indra, Agni, Vayu, Surya, Chandrama?


Which then brings up the questions of, who in WoT terms is:

Shiva (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiva), who is the father of Ganesha.


In WoT terms, I've thought Ganesha is Valan Luca... thus, a Show Folk man's true biological father is a 'destroyer' and 'transformer'--(Shiva).

Is one part of Slayer, the father of Valan Luca? Or are both parts, the father of Valan Luca? Knowing or unknowingly a father?

What are the two parts of Slayer, you ask? Luc Mantear, Isam Mandragoran.


How odd if true. If so, that would make Valan Luca blood relatives to:


Galad (Luc's sister was Tigraine; Grandmother was Mordrellen)
Rand (Luc's sister was Tigraine; Grandmother was Mordrellen)
Mordrellen Mantear (Luc's mother; unknown who's Luc's father is/was)
Lan Mandragoran (Isam's 1st cousin)
Lain Mandragoran (Isam's father)
Breyan Mandragoran(Isam's mother)
al’Akir Mandragoran (Isam's uncle, Lan's father)
ek'Leanna Mandragoran (Isam's aunt, Lan's mother)




Who's Valan Luca's birth mother most likely?

Ila




Who is Brahma?

Chuckles, I have no solid evidence... but if I had to hedge a guess... Lan.


A man in real life, whom I have heard Robert Jordan created partially in his father's own image. I've also read Lan's character was created out of RJ's own Vietnam experiences, which he called the 'Iceman' (on his Dragonmount blog years ago).

In WoT terms, Lan's Brahma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahma) ties seem to parallel what Lan tells Nynaeve in her Accept Test; and one of Nynaeve's later thoughts:

She wanted to sleep for a month, a year, to forget worries until Lan wakened her with a kiss like the Sun King with Talia.

A Crown of Swords, Chapter 21 "Swovan Night" -- Nynaeve al'Meara point of view


Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva are the Trimurti.

However, the Panchayatana puja includes: Shiva, Vishnu, Devi, Surya and Ganesha (I've read).

Other Devis and Devas include:


Saraswati
Lakshmi
Parvati
Shakti
Durga
Kali
Ganesha
Subrahmanya
Ayyappa
Rama
Krishna
Hanuman
Prajapati
Rudra
Indra
Agni
Dyaus
Bhumi
Varuna
Vayu


Who knows if Robert Jordan drew from some or all of these gods?



Two lessor written about WoT character's on the forums, in my view, do have mythical roots through, I'm fairly certain:



Agni Neres
Nemaris, and her horse Nightlily

Davian93
08-25-2011, 07:40 AM
The one impression you get from Brandon is that he's a grafter. That's his writing style, he writes, writes and then writes some more...I would imagine he's got a story arc already mapped out.

GRRM is probably more organic. Nothing wrong with that, Tolkien was the same...but there's a danger of 'mission creep' and the tale growing in the telling. People forget the years between Tolkien books!

Different writers have different creative styles. Nowt wrong with that.


We forget because most of us weren't alive when LotR was written.

The problem that GRRM is running into, at least IMHO, is that he's having more fun just telling stories about his characters than making progress on the story arc. If I KNEW he was gonna finish it before he dies, I'd have no issue with that. I suspect that I'll be sad when aMoL is finished as that will mean no more WoT stories. Personally, if GRRM was 30 years old, he could tell me the story would be 15 books just as long as SoS or aDwD and I'd be totally content. Likewise, if RJ were still with us and he was a young healthy man, he could tell me that WoT was really a serialized series of 50+ books and I'd enjoy each one. I get that immense love of the characters that they created...I completely do. I respect it. You should love the universe you've created and you should want to tell us every little detail about everything in that universe. It'll piss casual fans off but the hard-core nuts (like idiots that spend hours a day on a fansite discussing said books) won't mind.

Zombie Sammael
08-25-2011, 07:46 AM
The thing is that Martin is 63 years old, which even allowing for his recent health problems isn't that old. A lot of fans seem to think he's practically on his deathbed and there's no chance of him finishing on the meandering path he's on, but the way I see it, he's still got at least ten years of writing at very minimum. It's not like he's RJ, with a terminal illness, or Terry Pratchett, with Alzheimer's.

Davian93
08-25-2011, 09:07 AM
The thing is that Martin is 63 years old, which even allowing for his recent health problems isn't that old. A lot of fans seem to think he's practically on his deathbed and there's no chance of him finishing on the meandering path he's on, but the way I see it, he's still got at least ten years of writing at very minimum. It's not like he's RJ, with a terminal illness, or Terry Pratchett, with Alzheimer's.

He's also significantly overweight...I expect his life expectancy is a bit lower than the average with that in mind.

kabkaba
08-25-2011, 10:19 AM
Luc's father was Taringail Damodred

Taringail is actually Luc's brother in-law. He is married to Tigraine, not her mother.

Terez
08-25-2011, 10:23 AM
Felix probably actually believes that. He believes stranger things.

Davian93
08-25-2011, 10:25 AM
I love that we have an Ignore function on vBulletin.

Zombie Sammael
08-25-2011, 10:27 AM
He's also significantly overweight...I expect his life expectancy is a bit lower than the average with that in mind.

I think the beard makes him look fatter.

Figbiscuit
08-25-2011, 10:37 AM
Anyone else share my depressed suspicion that GRRM doesn't actually know where he's taking his story? I worry that he has literally lost the plot...

Zombie Sammael
08-25-2011, 10:55 AM
Anyone else share my depressed suspicion that GRRM doesn't actually know where he's taking his story? I worry that he has literally lost the plot...

I haven't read Dance yet so I don't know.

GonzoTheGreat
08-25-2011, 11:37 AM
Anyone else share my depressed suspicion that GRRM doesn't actually know where he's taking his story? I worry that he has literally lost the plot...I would expect him to run out of main characters (or any characters, for that matter) sooner.

Davian93
08-25-2011, 12:33 PM
Anyone else share my depressed suspicion that GRRM doesn't actually know where he's taking his story? I worry that he has literally lost the plot...

That's pretty much how I feel...I think he's just having fun telling a story with no real clue on how to end it or what the overall plot arc should/will be.

jana
08-25-2011, 02:29 PM
The thing is that Martin is 63 years old, which even allowing for his recent health problems isn't that old. A lot of fans seem to think he's practically on his deathbed and there's no chance of him finishing on the meandering path he's on, but the way I see it, he's still got at least ten years of writing at very minimum. It's not like he's RJ, with a terminal illness, or Terry Pratchett, with Alzheimer's.

Dude, he's like 300 pounds. There aren't a lot of people as big as him that make it past 70.

The Unreasoner
08-25-2011, 02:42 PM
Dude, he's like 300 pounds. There aren't a lot of people as big as him that make it past 70.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/__faI83aSYiQ/S8xmFvgez3I/AAAAAAAAAss/CyQuxLN4FNM/s1600/013.jpg


Looks healthy enough.
Are the books worth starting, or do you really feel that the series will fizz out?

Davian93
08-25-2011, 02:45 PM
Are they worth starting?


Um...maybe? And this is coming from a huge fan of them.

Zombie Sammael
08-25-2011, 02:52 PM
Looks healthy enough.
Are the books worth starting, or do you really feel that the series will fizz out?

Having not read Dance: yes. The story up to this point is entertaining enough that you will be glad you read it even if GRRM falls over and dies tomorrow (but let's hope he doesn't).

jana
08-25-2011, 03:14 PM
Looks healthy enough.
Are the books worth starting, or do you really feel that the series will fizz out?

What about that photo makes him look healthy enough? The fact that he's smiling? I'm not saying he looks unhealthy other than the weight, but the statement is confusing.

Anyhow, I didn't get past the first book, but I'll probably try reading it again once it's finished.

The Unreasoner
08-25-2011, 03:22 PM
The smile doesn't hurt.

...
I picked it in sarcasm.
Although he really doesn't look like he's on the way out.

jana
08-25-2011, 03:59 PM
Although he really doesn't look like he's on the way out.

Ya, I agree. I just completely understand why people are nervous.

Zombie Sammael
08-25-2011, 04:05 PM
Ya, I agree. I just completely understand why people are nervous.

The illness at Christmas doesn't help, and the white straggly beard makes him look about 20 years older than he is.

alleluia_cone
08-25-2011, 04:41 PM
There is some reason to be concerned. In my mind, ADwD basically assures that it will be at least an eight book series instead of the planned seven. The fact that two large sequences were dropped from the book only seems to confirm this point. A lot is ridding on the next book. AFfC and ADwD were all set-up (and in all honesty, they read as one big book), now it's time for events to move rapidly again. I am somewhat heartened by the recent preview chapter of TWoW that GRRM read -- that one indicated a faster pace.

the_collective
08-25-2011, 06:19 PM
I don't mean to derail your efforts to discuss the George R. R. Martin series, but this thread was originally about Brandon and the WoT books and can be found on the WoT Board reserved specifically for WoT-speak.

Now we have not only half of this thread about Mr. Martin, but on this page alone there are 3 (count 'em 3) copies of the same giant picture of the man in question to scroll down through just to see if someone happened to meander back to the topic at hand.

This thread has been thoroughly Theorylanded.....

jana
08-25-2011, 06:34 PM
on this page alone there are 3 (count 'em 3) copies of the same giant picture of the man in question to scroll down through just to see if someone happened to meander back to the topic at hand.

Oh, put your scrolling finger on ice and quit crying. Plus the beard is hot. Who wouldn't want to see it 3 times?

Crispin's Crispian
08-25-2011, 06:35 PM
Oh, put your scrolling finger on ice and quit crying. Plus the beard is hot. Who wouldn't want to see it 3 times?

Sorry. Only once for you. But you can scroll down and back up a couple times if it gets you going.

FelixPax
08-25-2011, 06:57 PM
Felix probably actually believes that. He believes stranger things.

Actually no, those were late night typos. Shrug.

Davian93
08-25-2011, 08:34 PM
I don't mean to derail your efforts to discuss the George R. R. Martin series, but this thread was originally about Brandon and the WoT books and can be found on the WoT Board reserved specifically for WoT-speak.

Now we have not only half of this thread about Mr. Martin, but on this page alone there are 3 (count 'em 3) copies of the same giant picture of the man in question to scroll down through just to see if someone happened to meander back to the topic at hand.

This thread has been thoroughly Theorylanded.....

http://www.boomtron.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/brandon_sanderson.jpg

I agree on whoever said it would be 8 books instead of 7...I just dont see how it could possibly be finished in 2 more books. Aegon's sub-arc alone should probably be another half book...add in Jaime, Brienne, Jon, Stannis, Dany, Cersei, Dorne, Bran, Arya, Sansa, Littlefinger, etc etc and you've easily got 3 more books.

Charlz Guybon
08-26-2011, 01:01 AM
43% done

jana
08-26-2011, 02:02 AM
you can scroll down and back up a couple times if it gets you going.
oh, it does. But not as much as

http://www.toyvault.com/wheeloftime/Images/Trolloc_Plush_Front.jpg

Zombie Sammael
08-26-2011, 04:01 AM
oh, it does. But not as much as

<image deleted>

Is that - what is that, a plush Trolloc? But why would someone do such a thing?

Figbiscuit
08-26-2011, 04:21 AM
I haven't read Dance yet so I don't know.

Me neither, I'm waiting for it to come out in paperback. And as much as I'm reserving judgement until I do, the little that I have seen online so far suggests that the story is not advanced much.

And Dav, I agree.

Not that I am dragging this thread away from topic again. Ahem. As you were.

Crispin's Crispian
08-26-2011, 10:17 AM
Is that - what is that, a plush Trolloc? But why would someone do such a thing?

Somehow pink armor just makes them less frightening, no? It's like when Narg started talking.

jana
08-26-2011, 11:45 AM
Is that - what is that, a plush Trolloc? But why would someone do such a thing?

I'm pretty sure it's Narg. They were going to be released officially but, for some reason I can't put my finger on, it didn't end up happening.

Ishara
08-26-2011, 03:10 PM
Is that - what is that, a plush Trolloc? But why would someone do such a thing?

Narg!

DUDE. Whatever happened to dancing Narg? Was that a Bela creation?

JOS
08-26-2011, 03:28 PM
I'm pretty sure it's Narg. They were going to be released officially but, for some reason I can't put my finger on, it didn't end up happening.

But Narg had a wolf head, not a ram head! Though the pink may be the bigger issue for marketing...

Terez
08-31-2011, 06:39 PM
Another interesting teaser from Twitter, and today's reddit interview:

Brandon on Twitter (http://twitter.com/#%21/BrandSanderson/status/108816705609932800)
Dang. I just pulled off something in #AMoL (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23AMoL) that is GRRM-esque. I'm not certain if I should apologize, feel awesome, or go take a shower.
Brandon (http://twitter.com/#%21/BrandSanderson/status/108820084524457984)
Also, the Minas Tirith theme is playing on Pandora. Perfect.
Terez (http://twitter.com/#%21/Terez27/status/108824272935452673)
Gah, now you've got me thinking Boromir/Gawyn.
Brandon (http://twitter.com/#%21/BrandSanderson/status/108826819414863872)
Some good mythological underpinnings and references in this scene, as I believe RJ would have done.
Brandon (http://twitter.com/#%21/BrandSanderson/status/108827773128282112)
If I ever get to write the annotations for this book as I plan, this scene will be a nice one to talk about.
Brandon (http://twitter.com/#%21/BrandSanderson/status/108828101785554944)
One of the challenges in writing these books is to get mythology right. Not too overt, with careful references. RJ left help, fortunately.

Axelkappa (http://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/k0fp8/iama_professional_fantasy_novelist_named_brandon/c2gk8ic): You previously mentioned on twitter a GRRM-esque moment in AMoL. Any more on that? In the end are you going to apologize or feel awesome?

Brandon: When the book is out, ask me about this. I'll tell you which one it was. It's something I was struggling with, trying different takes on. Finally, some things came together. I'll say more, but I'll put it in spoiler text. (It's not very spoilery, but some people don't want to know anything.) LionofLannister (http://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/k0fp8/iama_professional_fantasy_novelist_named_brandon/c2gk8nm):[/B] What was your opinion of [I]A Dance with Dragons?

Brandon: I think GRRM is a genius, and I read Game of Thrones specifically to try to learn from his wonderful use of character. However, the brutality of it (Daenerys specifically) while beautiful on one hand, was just too much for me. Perhaps some day I'll read the rest.

Charlz Guybon
08-31-2011, 07:19 PM
GRRMesque indicates betrayal was involved. Hmm...who is in the best (or worst if you will) position to go down to betrayal?

Dewairah
08-31-2011, 07:32 PM
FWIW Tam, Terez, Theorylanders: thanks for keeping theoryland ticking over and community support for WOT. Its great to see people still taking such pleasure (and displeasure!) from a world and set of stories which I found so engrossing myself. I'm recommencing my re-read of WoT and re-trawl of the forum.

I think many of you have actually done the WoT a great service by linking together some of the more obscure parts of the story that RJ only gave us hints about and providng a place where the more inquisitive reader could come and discover some of those links and more subtle points of the WoT world and plots.

:) Peace

Matoyak
08-31-2011, 11:28 PM
I was in my late forties when I began the books. Still young and healthy. Well, I'm not any more. At the rate Sanderson is going, I will die before he is done. He virtually had the completed story when he began. In my opinion, he is sucking as much out of the process as he can. A process begun by Jordanson, BTW. I am seriously ill, and I do not have years or months to wait patiently for the book. Enough already! And lets not forget that I have hundreds of dollars sunk into those books already.He's put out 4 or 5 books (Was Warbreaker before or after?) since he took over the series, of which two were massive WoT books, and another was equally doorstopper size. Most of that was done in the time frame it took RJ to release one or two books, at best... The sheer volume and speed of his releases is ridiculous and you think he's intentionally going slow? :confused:Anyone else share my depressed suspicion that GRRM doesn't actually know where he's taking his story? I worry that he has literally lost the plot...I stopped reading after book 2 (and halfway through book 3) because he'd already shown signs of losing the plot. I can only imagine it's gotten worse.

Dewairah
08-31-2011, 11:43 PM
I started reading ASOIAF but i'm of two minds about it. From almost the get go it just seemd to be...... stuff happening to people...... and so many and diverse people that I didnt really develop any true attachment to any of them (with the possiblity of Arya as an exception and maybe

Ned stark who doesnt make it thorugh the first book with his head).
At least with WoT you get to know these basic few characters and empathise with them as they get swept up into a collosal epic journey (before they all get spread out and all the other extra characters join in). You want rand to get powerful and sort out his enemies, you want mat to make it through his next caper alive, etc.

I like his style of writing though, I just cant be made to care too much for the characters.

maacaroni
09-01-2011, 08:39 AM
I started reading ASOIAF but i'm of two minds about it. From almost the get go it just seemd to be...... stuff happening to people...... and so many and diverse people that I didnt really develop any true attachment to any of them (with the possiblity of Arya as an exception and maybe

Ned stark who doesnt make it thorugh the first book with his head).
At least with WoT you get to know these basic few characters and empathise with them as they get swept up into a collosal epic journey (before they all get spread out and all the other extra characters join in). You want rand to get powerful and sort out his enemies, you want mat to make it through his next caper alive, etc.

I like his style of writing though, I just cant be made to care too much for the characters.

hahaha love it. Spoilerifying something that's now been on television!!!

Anyway, GRRM mentioned that he disliked writing 'comfort fiction'...ie fiction where you know the main characters will make it. Perhaps that is what WoT is???

Anyway, I get impression with ASOIAF that this book was an attempt to fix the problems associated with his original five-year gap.

The original plan was

A>B>C>D......H>I>J>K

But now it is:

A>B>C>D>efg>H>I>J>K

The problem being thatin the last two books, many character arcs felt static because of the abandoned hiatus (Dany especially) while others moved along fine.

I still think Dance was a good book, just that it had some problems. I have faith in the author, though. He is just too talented to balls this all up. I say again, this may be his crossroads of twlight - the book that fixes plot snarls at the expense of individual quality but sets up the rest of the series excellently.

Terez
09-01-2011, 01:09 PM
hahaha love it. Spoilerifying something that's now been on television!!!
You say that as if everyone watches television. :rolleyes:

alleluia_cone
09-01-2011, 02:25 PM
You say that as if everyone watches television. :rolleyes:

Not to mention, it's on HBO, which isn't even basic cable.

Unrelated, but I actually think ADwD makes it very clear where the story is going as opposed to making it seem as if GRRM has lost the plot. Just read the prologue, the Melisandre chapter, and the last Jon and Daenerys chapters. There's a pretty good guideline there.

That being said, I do think the series needs eight books as opposed to seven. Recent comments by GRRM about delaying scenes almost seems to confirm this.

Terez
09-01-2011, 02:31 PM
Not to mention, it's on HBO, which isn't even basic cable.

Unrelated, but I actually think ADwD makes it very clear where the story is going as opposed to making it seem as if GRRM has lost the plot. Just read the prologue, the Melisandre chapter, and the last Jon and Daenerys chapters. There's a pretty good guideline there.
Agreed, the Melisandre chapter was a big clue. However, there doesn't seem much point to the Daenerys plotline, other than 'insert conflict here'.

Davian93
09-01-2011, 02:52 PM
Agreed, the Melisandre chapter was a big clue. However, there doesn't seem much point to the Daenerys plotline, other than 'insert conflict here'.

But its not like the Daenerys plotline has been like 3 full books of the 5 or anything...oh wait.

alleluia_cone
09-01-2011, 06:28 PM
But its not like the Daenerys plotline has been like 3 full books of the 5 or anything...oh wait.

However, there doesn't seem much point to the Daenerys plotline, other than 'insert conflict here'.

The specifics of the Daenerys storyline are very much in question but her visions at the House of the Undying all the way back in the second book did give us a general framework for her story.

After all:

We've been waiting for the Mummer's dragon for years now, and, well, we finally got him.

As for concerns about her plotline and how it will ever proceed to its conclusion:

I'm starting to entertain the idea that "Aegon" will be the one to conquer Westeros only for Daenerys to arrive, reveal him as a fake, and take his kingdom from him. It might not be satisfying to all but it does provide a manner in which it's reasonable for the series to conclude in two or three more books.

---

Now, for a question more relevant to this thread, is anyone else concerned about the length of AWoL?

As far as I can tell, and correct me if I'm wrong, the book will be roughly three-hundred thousand words, which puts it on par with TEotW, ACoS, and TGS -- but nowhere near the size of, say, TSR, LoC, or even TFoH.

I don't know, that seems kind of short for a book that needs to deal with five Forsaken, Taim, the Seanchan, the Black Tower, the Aiel, etc.

Put more bluntly, for a series stretching some four million words and more than two decades of publishing time, that seems an awful lot to get done in such a short book.

And I have to say, ToM didn't exactly give me a whole lot of confidence about the matter either. Meaning, I expected the second-to-last book to deal with many more of the long-winding storylines of WoT, not spend half its time entangled with the Perrin and the Whitecloaks boondoggle (which, as these go, was one of the least crucial of these type of storylines).

I'm starting to wonder whether the entire conflict with the Seanchan, something started all the way back in TGH, and involving many of the principle characters throughout the series, will simply be resolved in a couple of pages of dialogue between Tuon and Mat. And the Aiel? Will the solution to their long simmering problems also be resolved in a couple of paragraphs, or perhaps a chapter?

Davian93
09-01-2011, 06:57 PM
I suspect it will be closer to 350 than 300...despite Brandon's thoughts on the matter at this point.

GonzoTheGreat
09-02-2011, 04:37 AM
Out of curiosity: has Brandon now taken over from GRRM too?
Might make that series go a lot faster, I'll admit. I do hope he will finish AMoL first, though.

DrZoidberg
09-02-2011, 04:47 AM
Brandon should read A Clash of Kings and A Storm of Swords. Those two books are kickass.

Davian93
09-02-2011, 07:31 AM
Brandon should read A Clash of Kings and A Storm of Swords. Those two books are kickass.

If he thought GoT was too dark, I highly doubt he'd enjoy SoS very much...particularly a certain nuptials scene.

Zombie Sammael
09-02-2011, 07:40 AM
If he thought GoT was too dark, I highly doubt he'd enjoy SoS very much...particularly a certain nuptials scene.

Oh come on... it's not like "the Red Wedding" particularly spoils anything more than what you said. There's a wedding and it's red. :eek:

maacaroni
09-02-2011, 09:53 AM
His recent tweets say he's read the series but found the Dany chapters too painful.

Anyhoo, I think it will take 350k too. And it'll be amezzin.

I have faith in Brandon Sanderson, yes sir, I do.

Davian93
09-02-2011, 10:33 AM
His recent tweets say he's read the series but found the Dany chapters too painful.

Anyhoo, I think it will take 350k too. And it'll be amezzin.

I have faith in Brandon Sanderson, yes sir, I do.

I find them painfully boring too...and they get worse as it goes along. She is the Egwene of Westeros...but without any of Egwene's redeeming qualities.

DrZoidberg
09-02-2011, 11:21 AM
Well, as he read the first book not mainly for pleasure, but to learn some writing techniques...

I think why A Storm of Swords is the most popular ASOIF book is that Martin uses a clever writing technique.
Everything important happens twice in that book!
An important technique as the reader would never suspect that the same thing happens again.
Alot of classic litterature uses this too. For example Madame Bovary.


Two weddings, two trials, two trial-by-combat-duels, two betrayals, two resurections...

alleluia_cone
09-02-2011, 12:47 PM
In all fairness, I may be somewhat overreacting to the length of the book if only because the same word count for Brandon and Jordan do not equal the same thing. What I mean by that is that Brandon rarely, if ever, spends a lot of time describing the minutiae of every scene where as Jordan is notorious for it. So even if they were to write the same chapter and Jordan's word count was much higher than Brandon's, it's still easily within the realm of possibility that Brandon actually included more substance in said chapter. As an example, I'd imagine that if Brandon wrote TSR under the same circumstances as TGS and ToM, the book would be 50,000 words shorter than Jordan's version of the book, without excluding anything.

That being the case, I'm still worried about how long running plotlines will be wrapped-up -- ToM seems a good indicator to me that I'll find the conclusion to the Black Tower, the Seanchan, and the Aiel storylines very much abrupt and unsatisfying. I also don't expect anything all that special where the Forsaken are concerned, absent perhaps Ishmael and -- hopefully -- Lanfear.

That's the inherent weakness of a long running series though. You spend twenty-years coming up with threads and threads of story and eventually it gets to be too much and the only way to wrap it up is to start snipping away.

Charlz Guybon
09-02-2011, 08:07 PM
I stopped reading after book 2 (and halfway through book 3) because he'd already shown signs of losing the plot. I can only imagine it's gotten worse.

Book 3 is the best book and has a definite ending. The plot is very straight forward, though I've heard it's since drifted.

I doubt I'll read on though, even though I own both books 4 & 5, it's just too soul crushing.

I suspect it will be closer to 350 than 300...despite Brandon's thoughts on the matter at this poin

When said he was 38% done he said he had 125k words IIRC, at that rate the book would be about 329k words.

Isabel
09-03-2011, 12:43 AM
In all fairness, I may be somewhat overreacting to the length of the book if only because the same word count for Brandon and Jordan do not equal the same thing. What I mean by that is that Brandon rarely, if ever, spends a lot of time describing the minutiae of every scene where as Jordan is notorious for it. So even if they were to write the same chapter and Jordan's word count was much higher than Brandon's, it's still easily within the realm of possibility that Brandon actually included more substance in said chapter. As an example, I'd imagine that if Brandon wrote TSR under the same circumstances as TGS and ToM, the book would be 50,000 words shorter than Jordan's version of the book, without excluding anything.
.

I am not quite sure about that. RJ could develop things real quickly. Remember the Ghengji scenes were mostly written by RJ.

Matoyak
09-03-2011, 03:13 AM
I am not quite sure about that. RJ could develop things real quickly. Remember the Ghengji scenes were mostly written by RJ.Yeah, I think RJ could do it in a smaller amount than what people are giving him credit for, but only because it is THE END, everything must move forward with a faster pace, it is required by the structure and the plot itself. That said, he wouldn't get nearly as straightforward as Sanderson would. Different writing styles and all that. (Not that I'm criticizing Brandon's writing (I prefer it over RJ's) or saying he's clear as a bell [have many friends who find Sanderson too wordy])

Book 3 is the best book and has a definite ending. The plot is very straight forward, though I've heard it's since drifted.Unrelated, but I actually think ADwD makes it very clear where the story is going as opposed to making it seem as if GRRM has lost the plot.So Winter's finally coming, then? Well I'll be...Book 2 made it seem like that'd be, I dunno, 8 books later? Like, after everyone was already dead, and he had to add in a whole new cast?

EDIT: Grammar. English be wut?

alleluia_cone
09-03-2011, 01:33 PM
I am not quite sure about that. RJ could develop things real quickly. Remember the Ghengji scenes were mostly written by RJ.

At times, certainly, but in general?

I'm reading the Ebou Dar portions of the story right now and it's rather surprising just how many words are used (or wasted if you prefer) on scenery and describing how every man, woman, and child is dressed.

I still suspect that had Jordan written the "final" book of the series, we'd have ended up with three books, each the size of TSR.

Isabel
09-03-2011, 01:37 PM
I still suspect that had Jordan written the "final" book of the series, we'd have ended up with three books, each the size of TSR.

We will never know. Remember, when he was writing aMoL he was in a different situation, so he might have made it more compact.

Terez
09-03-2011, 01:44 PM
RJ and deadlines...

He signed a six book contract for WoT. Apparently he was expected to put out a book a year. RJ said this nearly killed him, and he talked about how they had to shut him up in a hotel in NYC so that he could finish LOC. After that, he slowed his pace somewhat, and kind of gradually slowed it more until COT. The difference is huge, because the first six books are so packed with goodness, and he was putting a new one out every year. So it's easy to see why a lot of fans fell off the wagon during those years in retrospect. I'm glad I missed out on all that. (COT was the first book I had to wait for, and it was only about a year...maybe two because I do remember thinking when NS came out, 'Hey, I wanted the new book!'.)

alleluia_cone
09-03-2011, 02:01 PM
I was never particularly bothered with the wait for the books so much as the decline in quality, at least in my view. I just feel books 8, 9, and 10 are not worthy of the rest of the series.

I am impressed with the pace he set on the first six books though. That was rather remarkable, especially now, in comparison to GRRM.

maacaroni
09-05-2011, 06:23 AM
Writing is a combination of creativity and monotony. How many times is a chapter written and re-written? A person removed from a scene, or added. A different viewpoint? Is that prose necessary? Does the chapter seem lacking in descriptive elements? etc etc. I would imagine it has to be a long-winded process. And draining.

On a separate note, I am mindful of overcriticism of RJ (and indeed BS) for as much as I found CoT a drudge, it lead onto some amazing scenes in subsequent books. On a more visceral level, he wrote a series so good that any perceived drop in standards produced such an emotional response - something I was guilty of after CoT.
In my opinion, the wheel of time's quality is as much in its discourse between characters and the depth of world-building than the climactic one power scenes - perhaps this is why it has more female fans than most fantasy series???

GonzoTheGreat
09-05-2011, 06:32 AM
In my opinion, the wheel of time's quality is as much in its discourse between characters and the depth of world-building than the climactic one power scenes - perhaps this is why it has more female fans than most fantasy series???Or it could be because of all the discussions of dresses and such. Or maybe the bath scenes.

FelixPax
09-05-2011, 06:44 AM
Writing is a combination of creativity and monotony. How many times is a chapter written and re-written? A person removed from a scene, or added. A different viewpoint? Is that prose necessary? Does the chapter seem lacking in descriptive elements? etc etc. I would imagine it has to be a long-winded process. And draining.


Winter's Heart Prologue was re-written over 80 times, according to Robert Jordan in an interview years ago.

Every word, every description, every point of view is there for a reason.

Daekyras
09-05-2011, 06:52 AM
I was never particularly bothered with the wait for the books so much as the decline in quality, at least in my view. I just feel books 8, 9, and 10 are not worthy of the rest of the series.


I feel the almost the exact same.

One thing about that set of 3 though- As I read them they made me enjoy mats character more and more.

Book 8 was spent waiting to find out how he was.
Book 9- every chapter involving him is like a breath of fresh air compared to the dross around him.
Book 10-the worst part of the entire saga and yet his chapters still entertained me.

FelixPax
09-05-2011, 07:03 AM
I was never particularly bothered with the wait for the books so much as the decline in quality, at least in my view. I just feel books 8, 9, and 10 are not worthy of the rest of the series.

Curiously, I stopped reading the series after reading 'A Crown of Swords' when it was published. I only took up reading the series again, after a bunch of cousins mentioned how much better the story picked up in Crossroads of Twilight and Knife of Dreams books.

Simply put I did not enjoy who a major character was becoming. That character is Rand al'Thor.

Years ago, I didn't see how Robert Jordan was subtly crafting multiple parallel narratives within a broader set of story arcs. I didn't see how the Tuatha'an fit it. Nor did I see at the time how Rand al'Thor was a false dragon. I've changed over the years, similarly my point of view about this series have been altered.

I now see ACoS to KoD books as a continuum. Why? One reason is Ishamael has returned, and put into focus an alternate plan with the blessing of the Dark One. Rand isn't as much the focus, either. There's a set of good reasons for that too.