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Eclipse
08-05-2008, 01:09 PM
NOW i'm pissed.

i just spent the past half hour typing, and when i submitted, it told me i wasn't logged in, and it ATE my post. i couldn't go back to cut and past to save my typing.

grrrrr!!

just GETTING to this point on the new boards has taken most of my morning :mad:

alright, i'm leaving....heh

i may be back. i gotta question anyway.

Weird Harold
08-05-2008, 01:15 PM
i couldn't go back to cut and past to save my typing.

A trick to save those lost hours of typing -- sometimes.

Before clicking the BACK button to try and retrieve your typing, click File/Work Offline. That will keep your browser from refreshing the page and erasing your typing.

If you aren't on a shared computer where your login could be misused, check "Remeber Me" to automatically log you back in when you let your session time out while typing.

Mort
08-05-2008, 02:00 PM
Ever since Fuku I usually copy (Ctrl + A and Ctrl + C pwns) all my written posts that are larger than a few sentences before I try pushing the submit button. If I am writing a post that is gonna take up like a normal page of text or the like, I usually write it in notepad first and paste it here and then submit.

I rather do that than die a little everytime either the messageboard gets a hickup or I in a spark of pure genious goes and close down the browser window that I am writing the post in :)

And yes, I copied this text too!

ShadowbaneX
08-05-2008, 02:26 PM
Welcome back Eclipse!

Nice to see you've made it to the new boards! Hope that things go better from now on. :D

Sarevok
08-05-2008, 02:51 PM
Welcome back, Eclipse!

Can I post the convo we had in chat a few hours back? :D:D

Eclipse
08-05-2008, 03:32 PM
Why was gollum still alive at the time of the Fellowship?
bilbo was one foot in the grave, what, 16 years? after he left the ring to frodo, yet gollum had been without the ring for over 70 years iirc, and the bounce in his step was rather a point of envy. navy SEALs could wish for that kind of stamina and tenacity. not to mention, he'd already lived hundreds of years past his Check Out date. bilbo was only 111.

Gonzo suggested it had to do with how long smeagol had had the ring and used it compared to bilbo. i suppose that's possible, but if he'd been using it, what kept the necromancer from finding him over the centuries? compared to the LotR trilogy and the distances covered, sauron the necro was practically on gollum's doorstep for centuries.

any ideas? or do we just chalk this one up to a Pattern Level Even? :D

edit: also, after the shift, and the hacking and slashing, from the darkest depths to the frostiest mountain top, and slaying the Balr- er... Theoryland Enrollment Mystery, i needed a new incarnation. Eclipse the Red is now... Eclipse the Blue :)

ShadowbaneX
08-05-2008, 03:34 PM
something about mack truck humping one another or something...I'd just chalk it up to poetic license.

GonzoTheGreat
08-05-2008, 03:52 PM
As I already said on the old board (where Eclipse tried to keep up a discussion on his own), Sauron wasn't all that powerful during most of the time that Gollum had the Ring. Only at the end did Sauron start to extend his influence. Then the Greenwood changed into the Mirkwood, the orcs started running around bothering travellers, and the Ring woke up and found transportation out of the caves.

Sei'taer
08-05-2008, 04:58 PM
There's only one return....


Wb, Eclipse. Y'know, manual dexterity and reasoning and deduction are all traits pilots need. Hope no one was watching.

irerancincpkc
08-05-2008, 05:45 PM
If I could compare Gollum to Nicholas Flamel from Harry Potter, maybe it is something similar? Flamel had stored up enough of the exilar to live (I think) a month after the stone was destroyed. Maybe Gollum had stored up enough in the reserves to live for so long without the ring.

Maybe that does not makes sense, but it did to me. :D

Eclipse
08-05-2008, 09:30 PM
Tolkien Trivia Answers:

1. What does the "J" stand for in J.R.R.?
B. John

2. What is the correct pronunciation of "Tolkien"?
D. TOLL-KEEN

3. Of what ethnic origin is the name Tolkien?
C. German

i was ignorant, at the time, of the spelling and thought the vowels reversed due to common pronunciation. now, because it IS germanic, as i suspected, and it IS written TolkIEn, then of course it IS pronounced TOLL-KEEN.

man, i was kicking BUTT at the HoHties Fellowship random trivia last weekend :lol and fwiw, Semirhage ends with a HARD "g," not soft ;)

Eclipse
08-05-2008, 10:03 PM
Another topic of the HoHties Fellowship. honestly, keeping away from the Asmodean vortex is like denying sex maintains sanity.

JWB, this one, i think, is yours ;)

[LOC: 6, Threads Woven of Shadow, 133]:

"You [Sammael] know as much as I do," Graendal said blithely, pausing for a sip from her goblet. "Myself, I think Lews Therin killed them [Asmodean, Lanfear, Moghedien]. [...] There are rumors out of Cairhien about Lanfear dying at Lews Therin's hands the same day he killed Rahvin."
[LOC: 6, Threads Woven of Shadow, 134]:

[Graendal speaking] "So many of us have died confronting him. [...] And Lanfear and Asmodean, whatever you believe. Possibly Moghedien."
[LOC: 23, To Understand a Message, 348]:

"Asmodean and Lanfear are dead, and I [Graendal] am sure Moghedien must be, too." She was surprised to hear her own voice, hoarse and unsteady.

Tamyrlin - am i stirring the pot enough :D ?

Birgitte
08-05-2008, 11:21 PM
Welcome Back, Eclipse.

And RJ killed Asmodean. I think he just got sick of having him around.

Ozymandias
08-06-2008, 07:48 AM
Gonzo suggested it had to do with how long smeagol had had the ring and used it compared to bilbo. i suppose that's possible, but if he'd been using it, what kept the necromancer from finding him over the centuries? compared to the LotR trilogy and the distances covered, sauron the necro was practically on gollum's doorstep for centuries.


Gonzo is right... the effects of the Ring still remained, though he didn't have it at the end. I've also heard people say that because he had such an obsessive goal in mind, getting the ring back, his ultimate purpose gave him extra strength and stamina in not succumbing.

As for Sauron, not only was he weaker in those years, but even if he found the Ring he would have a hard time getting to it. His Nazgul were as yet weak and far south in Mordor, with two kingdoms and wilderness in between, and those are the only servants he can trust to bring him the Ring. He also had to contend with Saruman searching, fighting off the Sindar, and the investigations of the Council. In short, he had a lot on his plate and not enough resources to protect himself and go about searching for the Ring, which in any case was far away.

I mean... distance clearly plays a part in his ability to detect its use. He couldn't find Bilbo, despite Bilbo's constant use of the Ring (he only found out from Smeagol), and only nabbed Frodo, or almost did, at Amon Hen, and not in Bree at all.

So Gollum being buried under thousands of tons of mountains may have distorted his ability to detect the Ring.

GonzoTheGreat
08-06-2008, 08:50 AM
It's been a while since my least reread, and then I didn't include (most of) the appendices anyway. So my knowledge of the precise timing was a bit rusty. However, I did brush up on it, and I'll give a summary with some added comments. All dates are Third Age, of course.

c. 1050 - The Wizards arrive, the Hobbits are first mentioned and a shadow falls on the Greenwood, which then gets the name Mirkwood.
I'm not sure the Hobbits are responsible, but it does seem suspicious in hindsight, doesn't it?

c. 1100 - Sauron settles at Dol Guldur, but is taken for one of the Nazgul.
Sauron apparently does not know the Ring still exists.

2063 - Gandalf goes to Dol Guldur, Sauron runs away.

2460 - Sauron sneaks back to Dol Guldur.

c. 2463 - Deagol find the ring and is strangled by Smeagol.
Sauron is too weak still to notice that his Ring is reactivated.

c. 2470 - Smeagol hides in the Misty Mountains.
This is farther away from Sauron, and shielded by lots of rock.

2850 - Gandalf goes to Dol Guldur again, and now discovers that it is Sauron who sits there.

2851 - Saruman starts searching near Gladden Fields.
Smeagol has taken the Ring away, but no one knows that, yet.

2939 - Saruman discovers that Sauron has sent searchers to Gladden Fields.
This means that Sauron now knows that the Ring was not distroyed, and where it was lost by Isildur.

2941 - Bilbo takes the Ring. Saruman agrees to drive Sauron from Dol Guldur, to prevent him access to the River. Sauron isn't bothered, since he had foreseen this.
This shows that both Saruman and (probably) Sauron still thought the Ring was undiscovered somewhere.

2951 - Sauron openly proclaims himself in Mordor. Gollum goes to have a look.
Gollum doesn't seem to have made it into Mordor, at this time.

3009-3016 - Sometime in this period, Gollum is caught by Sauron.
Only now does Sauron learn what happened to his Ring after Isildur dropped it.

3017 - Gollum is released.
Almost seems like Sauron is more merciful than Bush, who wouldn't let someone like that go free.

PS That last comment can not be fully backed up with LotR quotes.

jason wolfbrother
08-06-2008, 07:55 PM
Yup that was what I was thinking of Eclipse. As I said Graendal is the only one that makes the declaration of Asmodean's death. Everyone else is unsure of his situation, whether they think he is MIA, undercover for the DO, hiding like Moghedien, or a POW. Graendal states he is dead.

tworiverswoman
08-06-2008, 08:15 PM
Yep -- her flat statement that Asmodean was dead, when EVERYONE else merely speculates, was the clincher for me. Seemed obvious...

Eclipse
08-06-2008, 09:59 PM
first - so sauron, after over 1300 years of existence as the necro before the ring is found, and the next FOUR HUNDRED years of being the necro while smeagol uses the ring, he STILL is not powerful enough (to sense it or whatever), yet all of about 100 years after that first 1700 years, he is powerful enough to proclaim himself in mordor again, and have the giant eye that sees all, etc etc. fortunate timing for his long weakness and the loss/find rotation for gollum/bilbo, considering if he'd only gotten a little bit more powerful in that teensy bitsy hiccup of time (what's a century compared to the 17 prior that just flew by waiting?), he'd have found it right quickly.

anyhoo, it still becomes supposition on how much smeagol used the ring over the 500 years and how its "taint" affects its host. what we have is 500 years of ownership gets you a good extra... century? and 60 years gets you a decade or two. stranger things DID occur in middle earth, i'll give it that.

JWB - now i lean more towards Slayer at the behest of Mesaana. her task was to send slayer after fain, we learn that he was sent that way in tSR. easy to follow he was also sent to remove asmodean for similar reasons. they all knew he was with rand and training him (too much training; nip it in the bud), and he shows up in caemlyn and kills two forsaken. but if everyone sticks to the balefire (and slayer's thoughts in WH), then possibly mesaana hereself, as that seemed to be one of her secondary taskings; remove the traitors. course, we don't know that was her task for several books.

TRW - anyone who believes in telekinesis, raise my hand.

Davian93
08-06-2008, 10:17 PM
Which is why it was clearly Greandal that killed Asmo...

Sei'taer
08-06-2008, 11:04 PM
Which is why it was clearly Greandal that killed Asmo...

Pshaw, I think we all know what happened, but I'll explain it again, since people seem to keep forgetting.


Moir went into the doorway she was beaten up a bit and almost killed, but in the end she was given her life back and returned as a child to the tower. This child became Cadsuane, the (false) dragon slayer. As she lived so long, her memories became mixed with her previous life and she began to have a hard time seperating the two, but she knew, generally, who the dragon was, so she had no fear of killing off the falsies. She knew that Asmodean was teaching Rand, and knew that if it went on for too long she wouldn't be needed, so she sneaked (snuck...sneakeded) in one day when there was much confusion and told Taim to take care of Asmo before he went to see Rand or she would destroy him as she had all the others. Taim, knowing which side his bread was buttered on, decided that discretion was the better part of valor and took Asmo out before he visited with Rand. Hoping that Rand would see that he needed Taim, Taim was also putting himself in a good position to be the second hand man by taking out Asmo. He got two for ones that day and is now in line to be he who comes after, which, in a shitter, is a bad thing, but in the case of the prophecies is a good thing...as far as Taim is concerned. Anyway, Caddie/Moir also gets an in with Rand because now Rand needs her because he has lost his only other good AS advisor (or so he thinks, not knowing Cad is Moir), so when Moir hits the doorway Cad knows that she only has to lay low for a bit and then step in as his new AS advisor. She also has several centuries of wisdom under belt by this time and knows a thing or two about how to handle people, so she goes at Rand just like she needs to, straight hard and to the point. She wants him to understand that he is a child compared to her, and she gets the point across very well. This also helps with the scenario that Thom will marry Moir...old man saggy sack goes much better with dusty old lady cooter, imo.

And that, my friends, is what happened. Now you see why I never minded essay questions in school. I can drone on and on forever about anything. Sometimes I can even make a good sounding subject be so boring you would die a slow and horrible death of dry eyes and boredom before finishing the text and your last words would be "give him a B and tell him to go away and never bother me again!"

Eclipse
08-06-2008, 11:51 PM
hmmm, sounds as plausible as anything else whereas concerns asmo's killer. Moi/Cad by way of Taim.

Taim actually does follow, considering he's mentioned at the end of the book, and it allows him to get in close as rand's next bff male channeler. never mind that over a month passed before he actually showed himself to Rand in the beginning of the LoC. the bigger problem i see is the male forsaken teaching him balefire. but they taught him Traveling though, didn't they?

John Snow
08-07-2008, 10:42 AM
Yup that was what I was thinking of Eclipse. As I said Graendal is the only one that makes the declaration of Asmodean's death. Everyone else is unsure of his situation, whether they think he is MIA, undercover for the DO, hiding like Moghedien, or a POW. Graendal states he is dead.

about Moghedien - why would we think she's right about Asmodean? (Aviendha, Aviendha!)

Brita
08-07-2008, 11:18 AM
Pause for a post totally off topic-

Everytime I see the thread title I think "I've gotta grab some oxygen for Eclipse". I automatically read SOB as Shortness of Breath.

OK- back to main discussion.

JSUCamel
08-07-2008, 12:53 PM
Everytime I see the thread title I think "I've gotta grab some oxygen for Eclipse". I automatically read SOB as Shortness of Breath.

Funny, I always think "Son of a bitch".

Brita
08-07-2008, 12:57 PM
I think that is what it is meant to be- I just can't help thinking medically I use this short form so often at work.

GonzoTheGreat
08-08-2008, 05:33 AM
Doesn't that cause trouble, now and then?
I mean, I can imagine someone reacting a bit funny, when you say of a patient "he's SOB".

Terez
08-08-2008, 05:47 AM
As long as she didn't say "he's an SOB", then there shouldn't be any confusion. :)

GonzoTheGreat
08-08-2008, 06:21 AM
"Shouldn't". Isn't that the sort of word that usually sets red lights flashing in the minds of legal advisors?

Birgitte
08-08-2008, 12:15 PM
I would think that if they said it, it'd be "He's got SOB." But in all the hospital shows, they don't use any pronouns. They just list off the symptoms and everyone can figure out that its the guy right in front of them who has them.

GonzoTheGreat
08-08-2008, 12:57 PM
You mean that they would just look at the patient, say "SOB" and walk on?
I'm not sure that's gonna go over all that well, to be honest.

Birgitte
08-08-2008, 03:08 PM
lol... Gonzo... They only say it to each other. And they all think like Brita.

Terez
08-08-2008, 03:11 PM
No, there's always some weirdo like Gonzo in the group that likes to question everything. And then there's the legal advisers...

tanaww
08-08-2008, 03:40 PM
But in all the hospital shows, they don't use any pronouns. They just list off the symptoms and everyone can figure out that its the guy right in front of them who has them.

This reminds me of a conversation I had via Text with RS the other night. The next time someone asks who my Primary Care doc is I think I'm going to say Dr. Gregory House.


He won the toss with Dr. Cox.

Brita
08-09-2008, 05:12 PM
Actually, we write in (shorthand) but don't say the abbreviaton. When we are verbalizing the symptom we say "Shortness of breath". I never actually thought about it- but seeing SOB in written form makes me think of the medical term, but hearing SOB makes me thing of the curse.

I wonder if that ias a universal method in North American healthcare.

tworiverswoman
08-09-2008, 08:15 PM
You mean that they would just look at the patient, say "SOB" and walk on?
I'm not sure that's gonna go over all that well, to be honest.lol

I love ambiguous posts. :D

I can't tell if you mean the patient would be annoyed at being called a son of a bitch, or if there should be some dismay over the fact that they all note shortness of breath, but then just walk on....

4Alethinos
08-09-2008, 09:17 PM
Yo, Eclipse, I agree that it is supremely annoying to have to login again after a long time typing. However, do not go to the top of the page to use that login. Use the Login that shows up at the bottom of the screen. After this, your work will not be lost and you can just go read it as the last item in the thread.

Yes, Graendal did it and your quote demonstrates why this is so. RAFO, my good friend.

"No woe to the WO." :)