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The Unreasoner
10-27-2011, 06:57 PM
Turns out I'm not British after all.

A few days old, but interesting nonetheless. No clue how things would be different if the verdict went the other way.
Was the Declaration of Independence Legal? (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15345511)

Bryan Blaire
10-27-2011, 07:36 PM
It doesn't make a difference either way. Legal or not, it happened.

:D

Res_Ipsa
10-27-2011, 07:43 PM
It doesn't make a difference either way. Legal or not, it happened.

:D

Agreed. Considering humanity spread out from a single place through an ever expanding process of conquering and settling, it makes no sense to argue over who had it first as no government system is based on that criteria. Therefore, these arguments are inherently silly.

Zombie Sammael
10-28-2011, 04:25 AM
It doesn't make a difference either way. Legal or not, it happened.

:D

Agreed. Considering humanity spread out from a single place through an ever expanding process of conquering and settling, it makes no sense to argue over who had it first as no government system is based on that criteria. Therefore, these arguments are inherently silly.

The only reason you two colonials say this is because you're scared of what will happen when Her Maj rescinds your so-called "independence" and takes proper charge again. :p

GonzoTheGreat
10-28-2011, 05:22 AM
The only reason you two colonials say this is because you're scared of what will happen when Her Maj rescinds your so-called "independence" and takes proper charge again. :pIf they were colonials, they wouldn't be breaking the law, would they? But they are insurgents.
Of course, they'll probably have to wait until queen Camilla wants her territories returned to her. The current queen is too much of a hippie.

Zombie Sammael
10-28-2011, 05:34 AM
The only surprise is that the British government has communicated on such good terms with the US for so long. I had thought it was our policy not to negotiate with terrorists.

Zombie Sammael
10-28-2011, 05:37 AM
I am put in mind of this:

Dear Citizens of America,

In view of your failure to elect a competent President and thus to govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your independence, effective immediately.

Her Sovereign Majesty, Queen Elizabeth II, will resume monarchical duties over all states, commonwealths and other territories (except Kansas, which she does not fancy), as from Monday next.

Your new prime minister, Gordon Brown, will appoint a governor for America without the need for further elections. Congress and the Senate will be disbanded. A questionnaire may be circulated next year to determine whether any of you noticed.

To aid in the transition to a British Crown Dependency, the following rules are introduced with immediate effect:

1. You should look up “revocation” in the Oxford English Dictionary. Then look up “aluminium,” and check the pronunciation guide. You will be amazed at just how wrongly you have been pronouncing it.

2. The letter ‘U’ will be reinstated in words such as ‘colour’, ‘favour’ and ‘neighbour.’ Likewise, you will learn to spell ‘doughnut’ without skipping half the letters, and the suffix “ize” will be replaced by the suffix “ise.”

3. You will learn that the suffix ‘burgh’ is pronounced ‘burra’; you may elect to spell Pittsburgh as ‘Pittsberg’ if you find you simply can’t cope with correct pronunciation.

4. Generally, you will be expected to raise your vocabulary to acceptable levels (look up “vocabulary”). Using the same twenty-seven words interspersed with filler noises such as “like” and “you know” is an unacceptable and inefficient form of communication.

5. There is no such thing as “US English.” We will let Microsoft know on your behalf. The Microsoft spell-checker will be adjusted to take account of the reinstated letter ‘u’ and the elimination of “-ize.”

6. You will relearn your original national anthem, “God Save The Queen”,
but only after fully carrying out Task #1 (see above).

7. July 4th will no longer be celebrated as a holiday. November 2nd will
be a new national holiday, but to be celebrated only in England. It will be called “Come-Uppance Day.”

8. You will learn to resolve personal issues without using guns, lawyers or therapists. The fact that you need so many lawyers and therapists shows that you’re not adult enough to be independent. Guns should only be handled by adults. If you’re not adult enough to sort things out without suing someone or speaking to a therapist then you’re not grown up enough to handle a gun.

9. Therefore, you will no longer be allowed to own or carry anything more dangerous than a vegetable peeler. A permit will be required if you wish to carry a vegetable peeler in public.

10. All American cars are hereby banned. They are crap and this is for your own good. When we show you German cars, you will understand what we mean.

11. All intersections will be replaced with roundabouts, and you will start driving on the left with immediate effect. At the same time, you will go metric immediately and without the benefit of conversion tables… Both roundabouts and metrification will help you understand the British sense of humour.

12. The Former USA will adopt UK prices on petrol (which you have been calling “gasoline”) – roughly $8/US per gallon. Get used to it.

13. You will learn to make real chips. Those things you call french fries are not real chips, and those things you insist on calling potato chips are properly called “crisps.” Real chips are thick cut, fried in animal fat, and dressed not with catsup but with malt vinegar.

14. Waiters and waitresses will be trained to be more aggressive with customers.

15. The cold tasteless stuff you insist on calling beer is not actually beer at all. Henceforth, only proper British Bitter will be referred to as “beer,” and European brews of known and accepted provenance will be referred to as “Lager.” American brands will be referred to as “Near-Frozen Gnat’s Urine,” so that all can be sold without risk of further confusion.

16. Hollywood will be required occasionally to cast English actors as good guys. Hollywood will also be required to cast English actors as English characters. Watching Andie MacDowell attempt English dialogue in “Four Weddings and a Funeral” was an experience akin to having one’s ear removed with a cheese grater.

17. You will cease playing American “football.” There is only one kind of proper football; you call it “soccer”. Those of you brave enough, in time, will be allowed to play rugby (which has some similarities to American “football”, but does not involve stopping for a rest every twenty seconds or wearing full kevlar body armour like a
bunch of Jessies – English slang for “Big Girls Blouse”).

18. Further, you will stop playing baseball. It is not reasonable to host an event called the “World Series” for a game which is not played outside of America. Since only 2.1% of you are aware that there is a world beyond your borders, your error is understandable and forgiven.

19. You must tell us who killed JFK. It’s been driving us mad.

20. An internal revenue agent (i.e. tax collector) from Her Majesty’s Government will be with you shortly to ensure the acquisition of all monies due, backdated to 1776.

Thank you for your co-operation.
John Cleese

maacaroni
10-28-2011, 05:57 AM
Two people called 'terrorists' by the British Government:

George Washington and Nelson Mandela.

Being of Irish stock, myself, it always tickles me how much the word 'terrorist' is banded about. Terrorism is a tactic and a very subjective interpretation of a tactic, at that.

Tiocfeagh ár la!

GonzoTheGreat
10-28-2011, 06:02 AM
Frankly, I doubt George Washington was ever called a terrorist by the British Government. After all, the term originates in the French Revolution, and it didn't come into existence until the end of Washington's first term as president. And for almost a century after that, it was only used for state terror, not for amateur terrorists.

Of course, you are entirely right about Mandela.

yks 6nnetu hing
10-28-2011, 06:49 AM
Frankly, I doubt George Washington was ever called a terrorist by the British Government. After all, the term originates in the French Revolution, and it didn't come into existence until the end of Washington's first term as president. And for almost a century after that, it was only used for state terror, not for amateur terrorists.

Of course, you are entirely right about Mandela.

amateur terrorists, in turn, were first self-identified in the end of 1800s in Russia. By the 1905 revolution they already had an organization.

Bryan Blaire
10-28-2011, 10:57 AM
ZS, you and the United Kingdom are welcome to rescind our independence. The flags "Come and Take It" and "Don't Tread On Me" come to mind. ;) After all, American independence was obviously not thought legal in the first place, since there was a war fought over it and all. Unless that was just an issue over tea, in which case you British Nancies really are tracked in the melon...

Davian93
10-28-2011, 10:59 AM
ZS, you and the United Kingdom are welcome to rescind our independence. The flags "Come and Take It" and "Don't Tread On Me" come to mind. ;)

I didn't know we had a king...I thought we were an autonomous collective.

Bryan Blaire
10-28-2011, 11:30 AM
He grabbed a watery tart's shiny sword...

Davian93
10-28-2011, 11:36 AM
He grabbed a watery tart's shiny sword...

Listen pal, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power is derived from a mandate from the masses, not some farcical aquatic ceremony.

Zombie Sammael
10-28-2011, 11:41 AM
All I really require from America is an acknowledgement that English (UK) is the superior form of English, and that therefore the UK releases of the WOT series are better. Of course, there is demonstrable proof (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Eye-World-Limited-Wheel-Time/dp/0356501523/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1319820092&sr=8-3) that this is true.

Gilshalos Sedai
10-28-2011, 11:58 AM
All I really require from America is an acknowledgement that English (UK) is the superior form of English, and that therefore the UK releases of the WOT series are better. Of course, there is demonstrable proof (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Eye-World-Limited-Wheel-Time/dp/0356501523/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1319820092&sr=8-3) that this is true.


American English is actually an older and purer form of English. All that time in isolation in the early 1800s. So, no, all those extra vowels can GTFO. ;)

Sukoto
10-28-2011, 12:05 PM
All I really require from America is an acknowledgement that English (UK) is the superior form of English, and that therefore the UK releases of the WOT series are better. Of course, there is demonstrable proof (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Eye-World-Limited-Wheel-Time/dp/0356501523/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1319820092&sr=8-3) that this is true.

Which version of UK English are you referring to? Because there are several: Liverpudlian, Midland, Londoner, Welsh, Scottish, etc. :)

Seriously though, I think most British people speak English much better than Americans do. Americans are so sloppy in that area. But when it comes to writing, there's not much difference. I'm sure we can go find some demonstrable evidence of that from this very forum, eh ZS?

I'm curious. Do they edit the UK WoT books for spelling (center/centre, organize/organise, etc.)?

Sei'taer
10-28-2011, 12:20 PM
Which version of UK English are you referring to? Because there are several: Liverpudlian, Midland, Londoner, Welsh, Scottish, etc. :)

Seriously though, I think most British people speak English much better than Americans do. Americans are so sloppy in that area. But when it comes to writing, there's not much difference. I'm sure we can go find some demonstrable evidence of that from this very forum, eh ZS?

I'm curious. Do they edit the UK WoT books for spelling (center/centre, organize/organise, etc.)?

Since y'all are fixing to get onto it anway, I reckon y'all over yonder talk different, but I don't figure it's better.

WinespringBrother
10-28-2011, 12:40 PM
The Declaration of Independence was not only illegal, but actually treasonable. There is no legal principle then or now to allow a group of citizens to establish their own laws because they want to. What if Texas decided today it wanted to secede from the Union?

Too bad we can't look back at the historical record to answer that question. Oh wait, we can! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War)

Zombie Sammael
10-28-2011, 12:54 PM
Which version of UK English are you referring to? Because there are several: Liverpudlian, Midland, Londoner, Welsh, Scottish, etc. :)

Seriously though, I think most British people speak English much better than Americans do. Americans are so sloppy in that area. But when it comes to writing, there's not much difference. I'm sure we can go find some demonstrable evidence of that from this very forum, eh ZS?

I'm curious. Do they edit the UK WoT books for spelling (center/centre, organize/organise, etc.)?

Britches is spelt correctly in the UK edition. I'll keep an eye out for the others, but an American spelling would ordinarily leap out at me, so I would think that they do change them. I believe that is the ordinary publishing practice, in fact. I know Neil Gaiman's books are written in both English and American.

As far as accents are concerned, being from the middle of England and having undergone both voice training and English language study, I am well aware that accent snobbery is little more than veiled class snobbery; those from lower-wealth backgrounds generally speak with stronger accents and are more likely to use dialect words than those from higher-wealth backgrounds. It's essentially a political issue. The idea that one way of speaking the language - be that British received pronunciation or whatever the US equivalent is (it might even have the same name) - is the correct or better way of talking is in fact completely ludicrous. Applying such a standard, it would be correct to say that all people from the South of England are speaking English with a French accent, and that only people from Yorkshire speak "true" English. Literally every accent is a distortion, there is no norm, and there is no such thing as speaking without an accent; so-called neutral accents are still accents. Teaching someone to "lose" their accent seems to me akin to travelling to a foreign country, oppressing the native culture, and telling the residents they are savages, another thing we the British have enjoyed doing for years and which America has just started to adopt as a national pastime.

Ivhon
10-28-2011, 01:45 PM
Well. The closest English to what Shakespeare used is found in Appalachia. However, who decided that Elizabethan is true English?

Languages are like primates - humans are no more evolved than are chimps or gibbons.

Ultimately, what they speak in England is truer English than what we speak in America because English is the language of England and therefore what is spoken in England is English and what is not spoken in England is not proper English. No amount of American, Canukian, South Efrican or Australian jingoism will change that.

If any of us non-English want to beat our chests, we must embrace the American (or Canukian, etc.) and demonstrate to the world (or in the case of America, our own satisfaction) the superiority of the newer language over English.

Davian93
10-28-2011, 01:51 PM
However, who decided that Elizabethan is true English?

Shakespeare...and the expansion and use of the printing press.

Sei'taer
10-28-2011, 01:53 PM
Well. The closest English to what Shakespeare used is found in Appalachia. However, who decided that Elizabethan is true English?

Languages are like primates - humans are no more evolved than are chimps or gibbons.

Ultimately, what they speak in England is truer English than what we speak in America because English is the language of England and therefore what is spoken in England is English and what is not spoken in England is not proper English. No amount of American, Canukian, South Efrican or Australian jingoism will change that.

If any of us non-English want to beat our chests, we must embrace the American (or Canukian, etc.) and demonstrate to the world (or in the case of America, our own satisfaction) the superiority of the newer language over English.

You can do all that...I'm just going to talk regular.

Bryan Blaire
10-28-2011, 01:55 PM
I thought that Appalachia was where they spoke Rock-Gobbler/Mush-Mouth?

Davian93
10-28-2011, 01:58 PM
What a native English speaker might look like:

http://www.tigernet.com/servlet/JiveServlet/download/1-1005448-11089879-92499/Banjo-Boy-Deliverance.jpg

Crispin's Crispian
10-28-2011, 02:03 PM
I thought that Appalachia was where they spoke Rock-Gobbler/Mush-Mouth?

Yes, and?

Bryan Blaire
10-28-2011, 02:05 PM
Yes, and?

Never thought of Shakey-boy's plays being spoken that way...

Ivhon
10-28-2011, 03:22 PM
If you look at the cultural parallels between Appalacia and Elizabethan England it makes perfect sense:
1. Age at first pregnancy 12-14. Check
2. Most people banging their cousins. Check.
3. 5% literacy rate. Check
4. Life expectancy 34.7 years. Check.
5. Bathing no more than 1-2 times per year. Check

Really, I can't see why anyone is at all surprised about this.

The Unreasoner
10-28-2011, 05:48 PM
18. Further, you will stop playing baseball. It is not reasonable to host an event called the “World Series” for a game which is not played outside of America. Since only 2.1% of you are aware that there is a world beyond your borders, your error is understandable and forgiven.

19. You must tell us who killed JFK. It’s been driving us mad.
I started to crack up here. Have some Youngling Rep

Davian93
10-29-2011, 08:04 AM
I started to crack up here. Have some Youngling Rep

Of course, baseball is played in Canada, Japan, Korea, Taiwan, throughout Latin America and the Caribbean, etc etc.

Res_Ipsa
10-29-2011, 10:08 AM
Of course, baseball is played in Canada, Japan, Korea, Taiwan, throughout Latin America and the Caribbean, etc etc.

Yep, the Japanese are much more obsessive about baseball than the United States. Although, one could not tell that by all the Cardinal death threats I awoke to on my Facebook this morning.

The Unreasoner
10-29-2011, 03:35 PM
Of course, baseball is played in Canada, Japan, Korea, Taiwan, throughout Latin America and the Caribbean, etc etc.
I was amused more by the reasons we were forgiven for the alleged crime, than the nature of the alleged crime itself.

Figbiscuit
11-01-2011, 10:59 AM
only people from Yorkshire speak "true" English.

True, that.

Also, yes, the WoT books in English have all vowels in their correct places.

:p

Figbiscuit
11-01-2011, 11:12 AM
In two pages of catching up on Non-Wot that was the best I can do?

*goes back to sit in corner*