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MoridrintheShadow
10-28-2011, 04:38 PM
I'm hoping that this sparks discussion, and I would like to see what other people say and think. I was wondering if there is any Forsaken/Chosen (depending on your point of view) in Shara, as it seems like there's one just abut every else.

GonzoTheGreat
10-29-2011, 04:42 AM
The general idea is that Demandred might be there.
Of course, the general idea is that Demandred might be anywhere, so him maybe being in Shara is not really all that exceptional. Still, if there is a Forsaken there, then Demandred seems the best choice by far.

MoridrintheShadow
10-29-2011, 10:28 AM
That is a possibility, this could very well be proven or disproven in the concluduing book of the series, though. And, seeing as how I have terrible memory, I have forgotten where Ishamael is hiding, Moridin would probably be best to call him, I assume. But if it's not known exactly where he's hiding, I'm thinking maybe he's in Shara.

Zombie Sammael
10-29-2011, 10:45 AM
The idea that Demandred might be there is, to my mind, excluded by the fact that Graendal had some significant involvement; she kidnapped the rulers and plunged Shara into chaos. Since Shara is essentially isolationist and, according to Graendal, "too far from the centre to be of any use", it simply being in chaos is probably all the Shadow needs or desires from Shara to further its aims.

However, Gonzo's comment about Demandred being "everywhere" gave me a nice looney theory: what if there are, in fact, multiple Demandreds? One could be in Shara, one could be posing as King Roedran of Murandy, one could even be Mazrim Taim (since if there were multiple Demandred's, RJ's quote that Taim is not Demandred would still hold true - he's just *a* Demandred). It's utterly looney but somehow I'd like it to be true.

MoridrintheShadow
10-29-2011, 10:57 AM
How can there possibly be multiple Demandreds? As far as we know, in WoT it's impossible to be multiple of a single person existing in a world, so unless he went to the other worlds and gathered Demandreds there is no way there is more than one, also if he decides this then it's likely another Demandred decides something similar but could instead end up gathering other Chosen, this would be a fantastic idea but sounds like something Moridin would do.

Zombie Sammael
10-29-2011, 11:01 AM
How can there possibly be multiple Demandreds? As far as we know, in WoT it's impossible to be multiple of a single person existing in a world, so unless he went to the other worlds and gathered Demandreds there is no way there is more than one, also if he decides this then it's likely another Demandred decides something similar but could instead end up gathering other Chosen, this would be a fantastic idea but sounds like something Moridin would do.

Maybe Demandred has been travelling through mirror worlds, gathering up Demandreds to suit his plans. This would be what he meant when he asked the DO if he'd done well at the end of LOC.

I'm not seriously going to be expected to defend this, am I? I fully accept it's a stupid idea, if anyone was wondering.

GonzoTheGreat
10-29-2011, 11:20 AM
I don't think Demandred would trust Demandred enough to do this, to be honest. He would know himself too well.
However, Moridin may be behind the scheme. He's mad, so rationality is optional for him. And having a whole bunch of relatively competent Chosen to order around would significantly enhance his chances of doing his master's bidding.

Zombie Sammael
10-29-2011, 11:26 AM
I don't think Demandred would trust Demandred enough to do this, to be honest. He would know himself too well.
However, Moridin may be behind the scheme. He's mad, so rationality is optional for him. And having a whole bunch of relatively competent Chosen to order around would significantly enhance his chances of doing his master's bidding.

On the other hand, the only person I would trust to do this if I were Demandred would be Demandred.

This is damn silly, I regret ever suggesting it.

MoridrintheShadow
10-29-2011, 11:40 AM
I would think that in some other worlds, the Chosen are more obedient to Moridin and/or accepting. Also, if Demandred were to choose anybody to do something hugely important he would choose himself because he would be able to manipulate himself because he knows what he wants and thinks, and he wouldn't want another person to accomplish this because then he wouldn't get credit.

padfoot89
10-29-2011, 12:24 PM
I like this wacky idea. Maybe Moridin has his own set of multiple mind trapped Chosen.

MoridrintheShadow
10-29-2011, 01:38 PM
That is possible, and if Moridin does have a 'secret' set then I wouldn't be surprised, also there are probably some mirror worlds where all the Chosen are still alive and Rand hasn't reached the realization of why people are born again if they're just going to die. Perhaps there's even one where Rand joins the Chosen and before that they're all working in unity (Chosen) to capture and kill Rand, Channelers not of the Black Ajah and the BA are sent to hunt Egwene, Elayne and the other 'main' characters.

Zombie Sammael
10-29-2011, 02:02 PM
That is possible, and if Moridin does have a 'secret' set then I wouldn't be surprised, also there are probably some mirror worlds where all the Chosen are still alive and Rand hasn't reached the realization of why people are born again if they're just going to die. Perhaps there's even one where Rand joins the Chosen and before that they're all working in unity (Chosen) to capture and kill Rand, Channelers not of the Black Ajah and the BA are sent to hunt Egwene, Elayne and the other 'main' characters.

I think that if the Shadow could just "warp in" reinforcements from Mirror Worlds, they would have done so long ago. It's probable that travelling between Mirrors has the same effect on Shadowspawn as travelling, and I wouldn't be surprised to learn that it's impossible to coexist with your own mirrors; I'd say that if you try to visit a mirror world where you exist, you get a Cairhien Effect where you live out your life in that world (named for the Waygate used to travel between Cairhien and Arad Doman were this effect was first observed).

Elmindreada
10-29-2011, 02:41 PM
However, Gonzo's comment about Demandred being "everywhere" gave me a nice looney theory: what if there are, in fact, multiple Demandreds? One could be in Shara, one could be posing as King Roedran of Murandy, one could even be Mazrim Taim (since if there were multiple Demandred's, RJ's quote that Taim is not Demandred would still hold true - he's just *a* Demandred). It's utterly looney but somehow I'd like it to be true.

Maybe Demandred has been travelling through mirror worlds, gathering up Demandreds to suit his plans. This would be what he meant when he asked the DO if he'd done well at the end of LOC.

On the other hand, the only person I would trust to do this if I were Demandred would be Demandred.

This is damn silly, I regret ever suggesting it.

This gave me a very good chuckle. Attempted to rep you for it, but was unable....
I place the blame with you, as the reason must be that you have too much rep.:rolleyes:

On topic-wise, I don't think Shara's in need of any more chaos. Last I checked, Graendal had their Sh'botay and Sh'boan, which ruins their centuries old government/religious belief system.

MoridrintheShadow
10-29-2011, 02:45 PM
Definitely, and if Moridin were to get Chosen from other Worlds and didn't even reveal them to the other 'Real' Chosen then in a technicallity, or loophole, they aren't coexisting. If Moridin were somehow able to convince the other Chosen that their counterparts were dead then it'd practically be the same thing.

Zombie Sammael
10-29-2011, 03:27 PM
This gave me a very good chuckle. Attempted to rep you for it, but was unable....
I place the blame with you, as the reason must be that you have too much rep.:rolleyes:

On topic-wise, I don't think Shara's in need of any more chaos. Last I checked, Graendal had their Sh'botay and Sh'boan, which ruins their centuries old government/religious belief system.

Younglings are unable to give rep. You can give Youngling Rep though, because... er, we made it up.

Elmindreada
10-29-2011, 03:52 PM
Oh, I thought it was somehow worked into the system. Whoops. So we go around giving pretend rep, then?

I'll give it another try. Uh... Youngling rep!

The Unreasoner
10-29-2011, 04:15 PM
I'm not seriously going to be expected to defend this, am I?
Hahaha...
May I put this in my signature?
So we go around giving pretend rep, then?
It's not pretend rep. And you're allowed to give it, so it may be just as good, as far as you're concerned. It is as far as I am.

Zombie Sammael
10-29-2011, 04:28 PM
Oh, I thought it was somehow worked into the system. Whoops. So we go around giving pretend rep, then?

I'll give it another try. Uh... Youngling rep!

It's not "pretend" rep, it's better rep!*

Hahaha...
May I put this in my signature?


Well, somebody's probably going to. LOL. Of course you can.

*The real reason is quite a few of us have now been posting regularly for some time, but for whatever reason haven't yet advanced beyond Youngling status. We don't mind, but we wanted some way to reward the people who kept rewarding us, and each other.

Elmindreada
10-29-2011, 05:33 PM
It's not pretend rep. And you're allowed to give it, so it may be just as good, as far as you're concerned. It is as far as I am.

Don't mistake me for a rep snob. I don't mind pretending, especially if it means I can show some appreciation.:)

*The real reason is quite a few of us have now been posting regularly for some time, but for whatever reason haven't yet advanced beyond Youngling status. We don't mind, but we wanted some way to reward the people who kept rewarding us, and each other.

Well, it appears pretend wasn't the right word. Not-technically-the-same-as-that-other rep? I should probably just stick to Youngling Rep. It was coined for a reason.

Anyway, I wholeheartedly agree that it's a good system/solution as most, if not all, current Younglings will be stay that way. In my case and many cases, we did come a bit late to the party, so it's not that surprising.

*looks up at post*... Did I just contribute to a derailing? Drat.

GonzoTheGreat
10-30-2011, 05:41 AM
On topic-wise, I don't think Shara's in need of any more chaos. Last I checked, Graendal had their Sh'botay and Sh'boan, which ruins their centuries old government/religious belief system.Which will be a problem right until another pair of dupes is installed. I'm quite sure some (never admitted to, of course) procedure for this precise eventuality is already in place.


Well, it appears pretend wasn't the right word. Not-technically-the-same-as-that-other rep?The technical term you're looking for is probably "separate but equal".

greatwolf
11-02-2011, 07:46 AM
Shara remains shrouded in mystery up till now. I wonder about a lot of things concerning shara. Looking at the map of the continent, one could assume that the population of shara could be more than triple that of RL. Especially since they didn't have the devastation of the hundred years war.

Add to this their inbreeding program for channelers and you'll be looking at a lot of channelers coming from the continent. If RL holds up to 15k* channelers, then we're talking about 30k channelers and above. Controlled by a single authority.

Graendal's statements about the sharans seems to be obviously wrong. The shbotay and shbotan were only figure head rulers. So if she took them and left the real power brokers behind, then its no reason for shara to be in chaos. Something else is happening there.

A state that size with 15k+ channelrs shouldn't have a hard time quelling any riots. And if they have channelrs among them, then they'll have foretelling as well. And we don't what has been foretold to them about the LB and the DR.


However, Gonzo's comment about Demandred being "everywhere" gave me a nice looney theory: what if there are, in fact, multiple Demandreds?.

Where's the wacky rep button?