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View Full Version : Ask Us Anything about WoT. There Are No Dumb Questions. No, Really. Part II


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Ishara
11-08-2011, 11:05 AM
You can ask any question about anything and someone helpful person will be along to answer it shortly. We know lots of stuff, and we enjoy showing off our knowledge, as anyone who was at JordanCon 2010 knows well.

Basic Rules (as described throughout the Part I Thread):
- Egwene bashing will bemoved to the Egwene Bashing thread
- questions that develop into discussion will eventually be moved into their own thread - this is at the discretion of mods

Hugoye
11-08-2011, 05:05 PM
1) Is there any guide dictating the rules for pronunciation of WoT personal names? The one that stimulated this question is, "Naeff." At first I thought "Nah-eff," then I thought perhaps "Nife" (as in "knife" - the "ae" working like the "ae" in Aes Sedai). I don't know if either of these are right. Is there any official word on this?

2) I asked once before how it would be possible for the Dragon to have ever gone over to the DO (as Ishamael claims has happened) without the Pattern being destroyed. I was told that the result wouldn't necessarily be destruction of the Pattern, although it would indeed be pretty bad. But if that's true, then why does Ishamael feel so confident that the DO actually CAN win? If even turning the Dragon can't work, then what can? I guess I'm asking because the books portray Ishamael's position as purely mathematical in it's reasoning: the DO can actually win, while the Dragon can - at best - push off destruction for a while longer. But is this so?

Khoram
11-08-2011, 05:39 PM
1) Is there any guide dictating the rules for pronunciation of WoT personal names? The one that stimulated this question is, "Naeff." At first I thought "Nah-eff," then I thought perhaps "Nife" (as in "knife" - the "ae" working like the "ae" in Aes Sedai). I don't know if either of these are right. Is there any official word on this?

2) I asked once before how it would be possible for the Dragon to have ever gone over to the DO (as Ishamael claims has happened) without the Pattern being destroyed. I was told that the result wouldn't necessarily be destruction of the Pattern, although it would indeed be pretty bad. But if that's true, then why does Ishamael feel so confident that the DO actually CAN win? If even turning the Dragon can't work, then what can? I guess I'm asking because the books portray Ishamael's position as purely mathematical in it's reasoning: the DO can actually win, while the Dragon can - at best - push off destruction for a while longer. But is this so?

To question 1: There's the glossary at the back of the books that helps with pronunciation of certain words. Also, encyclopaedia-wot.org has the entire list of characters with pronunciation guides (for most of them - Naeff doesn't, for example, have a pronunciation guide - I'd assume that you pronounce it as it sounds, then. I always pronounced it Nay-eff. :D)

To question 2: Ishamael feels that the DO can win because, unlike the other turnings, where the Dragon wasn't the DR (in other words, LTT was reborn as another person, but wasn't reborn to be the Dragon) the DO could very well have turned him. The soul of LTT is prominent in the group of HotH, and having him on your side is quite the advantage - so, while not destructive to the entire Pattern, it certainly is "pretty bad".

Hope this helps a bit. :)

JOS
11-09-2011, 11:52 AM
1) I asked once before how it would be possible for the Dragon to have ever gone over to the DO (as Ishamael claims has happened) without the Pattern being destroyed. I was told that the result wouldn't necessarily be destruction of the Pattern, although it would indeed be pretty bad. But if that's true, then why does Ishamael feel so confident that the DO actually CAN win? If even turning the Dragon can't work, then what can? I guess I'm asking because the books portray Ishamael's position as purely mathematical in it's reasoning: the DO can actually win, while the Dragon can - at best - push off destruction for a while longer. But is this so?

I don't think it is so. Here is why:

Ishamael talks a big game and acts like a know it all. I think he is full of crap. First, it is almost certain that he doesn't actually remember his past lives in which he faced the Dragon. He has no problem lying about this. Second, he only has what the DO tells him and what he can reason out for his theories (which he takes as fact, because he has such a high opinion of his reasoning abilities). His logic may be very good and thorough, but his assumptions and the info that he gets from the DO are most likely falsehoods and half-truths. He was turned to shadow by his own reasoning after all. I don't think he actually knows much at all about the turnings of the wheel. The DO just gives him enough to make him serve his purposes.

Ishara
11-09-2011, 03:17 PM
A thought that hasn't left me since the clue about Tam having his first POV in AMOL, is: Did Tam know what Rand might become?

What I really wonder; Is Tam educated enough (well traveled enough to hear about the prophesy), or is the prophesy of the Dragon known enough in the general population that he would have suspected that the child he found at the Dragonmount slope, could become the Dragon Reborn?

Perhaps its a silly question; not many study the karaethon cycle (as I have understood it), but... well, it made me curious. Could Tam suspected? Was it well known that the Dragon would be born where he died?

*shrugs*

Excellent question, which I am moving to the CotW Thread for Tam!

Cenire Telamon
11-09-2011, 05:16 PM
Hello Everyone!

I have a question about the poem at the end of tFoH entitled 'Glory of the Dragon'. Written in the Fourth Age.

There is one line that I'm having trouble understanding and placing which is..

'Yet the shards of hearts did give wounds. And what was once did come again - in fire and in storm
splitting all in twain.'

I have had an explanation on Facebook saying that it was the affect of Rand's balefire on Rahvin bringing Matt and Aviendha back to life. This doesn't really seem to fit with the rest of the passage, as this seems to fall after 'the binding nations to him. Making one of many' as the nations definatley haven't unified at that point in the time line and seems to allure to the prophesy of 'East and West' etc.. Making me feel that this heart business happens after Merrilor.

So what I am getting at is can anyone remember or have they seen any other reference to hearts being used in WoT?

Doesn't Iturald wear a heart on his cheek at one point? But it also makes me align it to Aviendha's vision in the ter'angreal about her children breaking the dragons peace. Can anyone help me with any quotes from the books about this?

Thanks. P.S this was my first Theoryland post so I hope it follows some kind of logic!

Terez
11-09-2011, 05:40 PM
I posited in one of my FAQ articles that 'shards of hearts' refers to shards of the seals, which are made of heartstone.

Cenire Telamon
11-09-2011, 05:45 PM
Whereabouts can I find this Terez?

Terez
11-09-2011, 06:18 PM
hmm...try Ideal Seek. It's in the reference library in my sig - just search it.

ghostwreck
11-10-2011, 11:35 PM
In chapter one of TGS,what is the story with the sword that Rand is wearing? It sounds like something I should know but I'm drawling a blank.

Terez
11-10-2011, 11:48 PM
In chapter one of TGS,what is the story with the sword that Rand is wearing? It sounds like something I should know but I'm drawling a blank.
Rand's New Sword (https://docs.google.com/View?docID=0ARw8aVNqPsL5ZGNqc3BqcWdfMTAxMGZrYmp3bW c0&revision=_latest)

ghostwreck
11-11-2011, 01:04 AM
My deepest thanks.

Rand al'Fain
11-11-2011, 11:49 PM
Are the s'redit based off of Indian or African elephants? I want to say Indian, as those are the ones most often used in warfare, work, etc. Or are they some elephant look a likes?

GonzoTheGreat
11-12-2011, 03:50 AM
What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen s'redit?

Oden
11-12-2011, 08:10 AM
Is it a Sharan s'redit or a Seanchan s'redit?

Khoram
11-12-2011, 08:57 AM
What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen s'redit?

If it were a raken, I'd be able to answer. ;)

Landro
11-12-2011, 09:08 AM
What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen s'redit?

Are you using a Trebuchet or a catapult?

GonzoTheGreat
11-12-2011, 10:19 AM
Are you using a Trebuchet or a catapult?Huh? I... I don't know that.

Hugoye
11-17-2011, 10:42 PM
Two quick questions:

1) I came across the following quote in ToM
Jonneth looked at his shot critically, then drew again - fletching to cheek - and loosed. The shaft fell true and hit the very same tree. Androl would guess that the shafts were less than two handspans apart.

Canler whistled again.

"My father trained on one of those," Nalaam noted. "Learned the art from a Two Rivers man whom he rescued from drowning in Illian. Has the bowstring as a memento.

The rest of Nalaam's stories sound unbelievable, but does anyone know if this is a reference to Tam al'Thor? Not that it matters (at least I don't think it does), just curious if anyone's thought about this.

2) I know we don't know much about the Book of Translation. My question: do we know if it would have any effect on the Seanchan Ogier?

In general, has there been any talk of how the Seanchan Ogier relate to the Randland Ogier (and vice-versa). Are there any indications that they are even aware of each other?

Ishara
11-18-2011, 06:10 AM
Two quick questions:

1) I came across the following quote in ToM


The rest of Nalaam's stories sound unbelievable, but does anyone know if this is a reference to Tam al'Thor? Not that it matters (at least I don't think it does), just curious if anyone's thought about this.



I'd say so, personally. We don't know many other Two Rivers men who were in Illian 20+ years ago, do we? Good catch!

Hugoye
11-18-2011, 08:06 AM
Another quick question (and I'm sure this has been dealt with elsewhere, but still - any question, right!): what is the "Pact of the Griffin" that Aviendha's vision references?

I guessed that it was Andor (Lion) plus the Two Rivers (Eagle [of Manetheren]), but have no idea other than that.

Terez
11-18-2011, 08:29 AM
Another quick question (and I'm sure this has been dealt with elsewhere, but still - any question, right!): what is the "Pact of the Griffin" that Aviendha's vision references?

I guessed that it was Andor (Lion) plus the Two Rivers (Eagle [of Manetheren]), but have no idea other than that.That's all we know about it - it seems to represent the agreement made between Perrin and Elayne in TOM. I have reason to suspect that's not the end of it, though. That future will undoubtedly change, and there's something a little off about it. Very anticlimactic after an entire series of Perrin saying that the Two Rivers doesn't have a queen.

Hugoye
11-19-2011, 05:50 PM
I know there's been some discussion about the "halls of mourning" in the Shadow Prophecy, and I was wondering if perhaps some evidence for its identification as the Tower of Ghenjei might be in the Eelfin woman's (vixen's?) exclamation "We are the near ancient, the warriors of final regret, the knowers of secrets."

"Warriors of final regret" made me think of "halls of mourning." Does this make sense? If not, what else have theorists suggested for identifying the "halls of mourning"?

Also, aside from the "halls of mourning" issue, what is the Eelfin talking about? What exactly does she mean by "near ancient" and "warriors of final regret"?

Terez
11-19-2011, 05:55 PM
I know there's been some discussion about the "halls of mourning" in the Shadow Prophecy, and I was wondering if perhaps some evidence for its identification as the Tower of Ghenjei might be in the Eelfin woman's (vixen's?) exclamation "We are the near ancient, the warriors of final regret, the knowers of secrets."That is the general assumption (see my FAQ (https://docs.google.com/View?docID=dcjspjqg_993c9jzmgdv&revision=_latest#The_TOM_Prophecy) on that prophecy), though I haven't seen any good ideas on why they call themselves that.

eht slat meit
11-19-2011, 08:36 PM
I know there's been some discussion about the "halls of mourning" in the Shadow Prophecy, and I was wondering if perhaps some evidence for its identification as the Tower of Ghenjei might be in the Eelfin woman's (vixen's?) exclamation "We are the near ancient, the warriors of final regret, the knowers of secrets."

"Warriors of final regret" made me think of "halls of mourning." Does this make sense? If not, what else have theorists suggested for identifying the "halls of mourning"?

Also, aside from the "halls of mourning" issue, what is the Eelfin talking about? What exactly does she mean by "near ancient" and "warriors of final regret"?

I expect it's about as straightforward a description of the Finns as they will give anyone, and the interpretation could be taken literally without assuming an untold story to explain it.

v

They are near ancient, not so old as to be gone into myth and legend nor forgotten, but old enough to be feared and respected for the strengths that such great age brings.

They are warriors of the final regret; they use their bargains as a weapon that surpasses even the Daes Da'mar and brings nothing but misery to those who deal with them. The Game of Snakes & Foxes is relevant here - everyone believes you only lose, and ultimately you regret playing.

They are the knowers of secrets, granted some sort power that allows them incredible knowledge and access to whatever powers are asked of them. This power is manifested in the bargains they make.

greatwolf
11-22-2011, 09:57 AM
There's a comment by RJ in an interview (Links don't seem to be working just now) where he says that Aginor was burned out in his struggle with Rand:

Suddenly he felt something, saw it, though he knew it was not there to see. A glowing rope ran off from Aginor, behind him, white like sunlight seen through the purest cloud, heavier than a blacksmith's arm, lighter than air, connecting the Forsaken to something distant beyond knowing, something within the touch of Rand's hand. The rope pulsed, and with every throb Aginor grew stronger, more fully fleshed, a man as tall and strong as himself, a man harder than the Warder, more deadly than the Blight. Yet beside that shining cord, the Forsaken seemed almost not to exist. The cord was all. It hummed. It sang. It called Rand's soul. One bright finger-strand lifted away, drifted, touched him, and he gasped. Light filled him, and heat that should have burned yet only warmed as if it took the chill of the grave from his bones. The strand thickened. I have to get away!
"No!" Aginor shouted. "You shall not have it! It is mine!"
Rand did not move, and neither did the Forsaken, yet they fought as surely as if they grappled in the dust. Sweat beaded on Aginor's face, no longer withered, no longer old, that of a strong man in his prime. Rand pulsed with the beating in the cord, like the heartbeat of the world. It filled his being. Light filled his mind, till only a corner was left for what was himself. He wrapped the void around that nook; sheltered in emptiness. Away!"Mine!" Aginor cried. "Mine!"
Warmth built in Rand, the warmth of the sun, the radiance of the sun, bursting, the awful radiance of light, of the Light. Away!
"Mine!" Flame shot from Aginor's mouth, broke through his eyes like spears of fire, and he screamed.
Away!

The problem is why didn't Rand overdraw? We know that when a channeler starts drawing, they gradually build in strength. Except when the forsaken are transmigrated. Yet its either Rand was stronger than Aginor/Dashiva here, or he knew enough to avoid overdraw which makes very little sense.

And of course, burn out proves that the eye wasn't a saangreal. Probably just a well.

Of course, LT might have been guiding, but we'll leave that as a diagnosis of exclusion. :)

Rand al'Fain
11-22-2011, 10:19 AM
There's a comment by RJ in an interview (Links don't seem to be working just now) where he says that Aginor was burned out in his struggle with Rand:



The problem is why didn't Rand overdraw? We know that when a channeler starts drawing, they gradually build in strength. Except when the forsaken are transmigrated. Yet its either Rand was stronger than Aginor/Dashiva here, or he knew enough to avoid overdraw which makes very little sense.

And of course, burn out proves that the eye wasn't a saangreal. Probably just a well.

Of course, LT might have been guiding, but we'll leave that as a diagnosis of exclusion. :)
Well, Rand has throughout the series, spontaneously knew things that no one else did except for the Forsaken, and they would come at random times. Like his battle with Ishamael in TAR Tear. He instinctively knew how to fix things.

Terez
11-22-2011, 10:22 AM
There's a comment by RJ in an interview (Links don't seem to be working just now) where he says that Aginor was burned out in his struggle with Rand:You had better get links working, since I'm pretty sure that one doesn't exist.

greatwolf
11-23-2011, 03:13 AM
You had better get links working, since I'm pretty sure that one doesn't exist.

Maybe this is what I was remembering but it seems to have been part of a longer explanation by RJ that Rand did not kill Aginor at the eye. But I'm uncertain. I could be mixing it up. Thanks though, the links are ok now.

1 I asked Robert to ask this one primarily because the Encyclopaedia states definitively that Aginor overdosed on the Power, which I always thought to be an unfounded assumption. But most of the time, when the Encyclopaedia states something as fact when it hasn't actually been proven yet, the Encyclopaedia is right. (For instance, it has said for years that Noal Charin=Jain Farstrider, which no one with any sense ever doubted.)

Terez
11-23-2011, 09:37 AM
Looks like my footnote on the one where Brandon said that Rand killed him.

greatwolf
11-23-2011, 02:36 PM
Looks like my footnote on the one where Brandon said that Rand killed him.

Rand destroyed Aginor – Brandon is 90% sure of this fact1.

Sounds like a MAFO. That's one reason I didn't quote it earlier, it muddles up things even more. How could Rand have killed him? He should have been far too strong and too skilled. And there's this:


Melbourne book signing 28 August 1999 - Mark Erikson reporting

I asked him about Aginor getting younger at the end of The Eye of the World, and he said 'no, he doesn't get younger, he dies'. So I actually looked up the reference and read it to him. He said 'oh, that,' and then went on to explain that it is actually the True Power, not the saidin from the Eye, that rejuvenates him. He did describe the saidin in the Eye as a 'mother-load', however, I didn't think to ask him what he meant by that until I was in the car going home. I instead asked him whether the True Power was the source of the Forsaken's immortality. He said: yes.2

Even more muddled. Did he have access to the TP at the eye? During the struggle with Rand? Is that what killed him?

Anyone got answers? Ok, clues?

Terez
11-23-2011, 03:10 PM
1. The BWB also says Rand killed him.

2. We don't know exactly how Rand killed him because it's in Rand's POV and he hasn't even admitted to himself that he's channeling yet, so all his thoughts about it are vague. Either he did something to Aginor with the Power or he killed him by taking the Power of the Eye away from him. Aginor might have saved himself if he hadn't tried so hard to hang on, so in that way he's also complicit, but Rand still effectively killed him.


3. None of those quotes suggest that RJ said Aginor overdosed. I'm not really interested in arguing the point, particularly not in this thread. So long as we're clear that said quote doesn't actually exist, we should either move on or move these posts to another thread (which seems pointless since I doubt anyone will want to discuss it...again).

Oden
11-26-2011, 06:24 AM
I can't remember if we ever found out why the Ajah's heads were meeting. I do, however, remember the white Sitter (Saerin?) mentioning that she suspected that they were picking the new Sitters together. If that was true, why did they do it? They would only have 5 or 6 out of 18 Sitters under their control and I can't understand why they would do that without getting a majority.

Davian93
11-26-2011, 04:10 PM
I can't remember if we ever found out why the Ajah's heads were meeting. I do, however, remember the white Sitter (Saerin?) mentioning that she suspected that they were picking the new Sitters together. If that was true, why did they do it? They would only have 5 or 6 out of 18 Sitters under their control and I can't understand why they would do that without getting a majority.

They were meeting together because they had it in their minds that they would be the true power within the Tower instead of the Amyrlin. They based this on Saerin's research in the 13th depository where this same arrangement had occurred several times in the Tower's history during times of a weak or ineffective Amyrlin.

Oden
11-29-2011, 03:28 PM
New question: What happened in the first battle of Emond's field?
We got to know that Luhhan's place was wrecked as well as Aybara's house. How come we don't hear about it from Perrin?
Cauthon's farm was attacked as well. The farm was empty for the festival, therefore I suspect that Mat was in the village at the time of the attack. Why didn't Mat talk about it? He seemed to like adventures in the beginning but he didn't make a big deal of his first contact with real fighting.
Does anyone know how the battle transpired?

Terez
11-29-2011, 04:19 PM
Well, we don't get many POVs in TEOTW from people who were actually there, and by the time we do, it's old news and there's no reason for them to be really thinking much about it any more. Especially seeing as how they'd rather think about other things. From what I gather it was over pretty quickly because of Moiraine and Lan.

Sarevok
11-29-2011, 04:33 PM
Also, I believe you're confusing the battle from TEOTW with the raids happening off-screen in tSR. It's in tSR that Perrin's farm gets burned down. During the attack in TEOTW, Perrin and his family were probably staying somewhere in Emond's Field (remember Rand complaining that he and Tam are practically the only ones that are NOT in the village.) Also, any attack that may have happened on Perrin's farm (not sure if there was any, but it's probable), Perrin and his family woulnd't have found out about untill after they got home from the village the day after the attack.

Terez
11-29-2011, 04:49 PM
"Two farms were attacked," Lan went on. "Yours and one other. Because of Bel Tine everyone who lived at the second farm was already in the village. Many people were saved because the Myrddraal was ignorant of Two Rivers customs. Festival and Winternight made its task all but impossible, but it did not know that."

Rand looked at Moiraine, leaning back in the chair, but she said nothing, only watched him, a finger laid across her lips. "Our farm, and who else's?" he asked finally.

"The Aybara farm," Lan replied. "Here in Emond's Field, they struck first at the forge, and the blacksmith's house, and Master Cauthon's house."Apparently some people coming into the village from outlying areas notified the townspeople that the farm had been attacked.

Oden
11-30-2011, 08:09 AM
Thank you for not making a deal out of that I confused the Aybara's farm with the Cauthon's house!
But if his house was burned, shouldn't Mat have made some sort of remark?
And IIRC, Perrin lived with the Luhhans and Alsbet killed a trolloc with her frying pan. Wouldn't that mean that Perrin had some action, or did he simply flee and didn't talk about it?

Oden
12-01-2011, 04:19 AM
I'm re-reading CoT and yesterday I read the passage with Kadere and Mor. "It began among the local people , as near as we can tell, though we have not yet found the original source. Supposedly, a girl with a Seandar accent has been extorting gold and jewelry from merchants here in Ebou Dar. The title Daughter of the Nine Moons was mentioned," Almurat said to Furyk. After a bunch of talking he says: "... You may wonder how the girl extorted anything from these merchants. It seems two or three soldiers soldiers accompanied her. The description of the armor was also very precise." [gestures to Furyk's robe] "Most people call that black..."
My quessings are that Almurat Mor came to Furyk Kadere because of the black clothes of the soldiers and he tried to make it fit with his 'Thom Merrilin, secret agent of the White Tower' theory. My question is: what was really going on? Who was the girl and the soldiers and what did they plan?
I can't recall anything about any such thing beeing mentioned elsewhere and I would really appreciate an explanation, preferably a long one, please!

GonzoTheGreat
12-01-2011, 04:27 AM
The general idea is that it was intended to get Tuon killed by spreading the idea that there was an imposter around, and then having people hunt down and kill this "imposter".
I don't think the Seanchan ever really got to the bottom of this, so it may be that something else was going on entirely.

Terez
12-01-2011, 04:48 AM
The general idea is that it was intended to get Tuon killed by spreading the idea that there was an imposter around, and then having people hunt down and kill this "imposter".
I don't think the Seanchan ever really got to the bottom of this, so it may be that something else was going on entirely.I have no doubt that the rumors had their roots in an actual appearance or three by Semirhage. As to the jewelry extortion, it may be that she was looking for an angreal, thereby killing two birds with one stone.

Iamherenow
12-05-2011, 01:35 AM
This has been bugging me for some time.

When Elayne and the Aes Sedai and the sea folk Windfinders were using the bowl of the winds, Elayne notes that the bowl was channeling Saidin as well as Saidar.

My question is...how is the bowl channeling saidin if there are no male channelers present? The resonance around ebou dar for both saidin and saidar definitely suggests that the bowl was in fact channeling saidin as well as saidar...But I don't understand how the bowl was able to channel saidin.

Weird Harold
12-05-2011, 02:00 AM
This has been bugging me for some time.

When Elayne and the Aes Sedai and the sea folk Windfinders were using the bowl of the winds, Elayne notes that the bowl was channeling Saidin as well as Saidar.

My question is...how is the bowl channeling saidin if there are no male channelers present? The resonance around ebou dar for both saidin and saidar definitely suggests that the bowl was in fact channeling saidin as well as saidar...But I don't understand how the bowl was able to channel saidin.
The Bowl of the Winds is a complicated ter'angreal, which, in part, is related to those ter'angtreal "useable by anyone."

IOW, there are numerous ter'angreal that can draw on the One Power without a channeler present for the particular flavor of OP required.

Iamherenow
12-05-2011, 02:06 AM
Then could the bowl be operated by a circle of men? Would it channel saidin like it channeled saidar? If it's possible then why do you need a circle at all if it's possible to channel an entire half of the power with no one channeling it? (dumb questions probably)

Terez
12-05-2011, 02:24 AM
Then could the bowl be operated by a circle of men? Would it channel saidin like it channeled saidar?Men can't form circles without women, and there always has to be one more woman than man except in cases of 1m1f, 2m2f, and 2m1f. But presumably a man could use it - just not to do anything spectacular.


If it's possible then why do you need a circle at all if it's possible to channel an entire half of the power with no one channeling it? (dumb questions probably)Presumably the strength of the channelers determines the amount of Power that can be used regardless of which power it is. Also, in the Age of Legends, even ter'angreal that required channeling could be used by non-channelers because of the 'standing flows' referenced by Mesaana. Apparently the breakdown of their technology caused the standing flows to dissipate, but apparently they can still be utilized via certain ter'angreal like the Bowl.

GonzoTheGreat
12-05-2011, 04:40 AM
Men can't form circles without women, and there always has to be one more woman than man except in cases of 1m1f, 2m2f, and 2m1f. But presumably a man could use it - just not to do anything spectacular.I think that if Rand had used it while drawing power through Callandor, then he could have more or less matched the power level that the circle of women achieved. In that case, the side effects probably would have been just as bad.

However, what with Rand not having all that much weather controlling experience, and Callandor being a tad unpredictable, I suspect that the main goal (improving the weather) would not have been as easily achieved.

But in general, yes, that ter'angreal uses both sides of the OP, and simply adds whichever one is not supplied by the user. It had been intended as a "single user item", and using it with a circle as they did now seriously overloaded it. Hence the side effects; they were a result of going way past the design specifications. Then again, I suspect that the warranty had run out long since anyway, so they didn't have to worry about that.

Enigma
12-05-2011, 05:09 AM
I was under the impression that it was not the amount of the OP that was used with the bowl but the fact that the Windfinders were highly skilled that enabled the bowl to be overclocked. I think that RJ said that in the AoL ter'angreal had to be used to get the same effects that Windfinders were capable of now without any assistance.

Landro
12-06-2011, 10:52 AM
When Rand came to the Tower, he recognised Siuan. How is that possible? He only met her once before in Fal Dara and right then, his mind was on other things than remembering the Amyrlin's face. In addition to that, Siuan's face changed a lot after being stilled (and freed from the oaths). Enough that the Salidar six had to ask a great many questions before they could be sure it was Siuan. (although Sheriam likely had other motives)

GonzoTheGreat
12-06-2011, 11:15 AM
Rand met her more than once in Fal Dara. First he watched her from a distance when she arrived. Then he almost ran her over when Padan Fain was sprung free. Following that he was formally introduced to her. And finally she was nice enough to catch an arrow for him, which would otherwise have been totally wasted.

And, of course, he does have a fairly good (though not perfect) Talent for recognising people. He recognised both Ishamael and Lanfear in bodies that were a lot less like their old ones than the one Siuan is using. I think he also recognised Moghedien after the fight with Rahvin, but that is somewhat uncertain.
I don't think he ever spotted Aginor, though.

Landro
12-06-2011, 12:51 PM
I'm not sold on your arguments, Gonzo.

Anyway, I have a second question for TL. There are a lot of people who think that Moiraine will kill Rand to prevent something bad from happening but how would she do that? She's still bound by the oath not to kill with the OP and I don't see her sticking a sword in Rand. The only way around that would be if Rand threatened her life but why would he?

GonzoTheGreat
12-06-2011, 01:18 PM
I'm not sold on your arguments, Gonzo.Neither am I, really. But I don't have anything better, so it'll have to do. :p

As for Moiraine killing Rand: if he helps the DO, then that is a clear and imminent threat to all of existence, and consequently a danger to her life which would allow her to kill him.
I don't think this scenario will come to pass, but it does not seem a real problem to me either. The Three Oaths are sufficiently flawed to provide a lot of loopholes.

Oden
12-07-2011, 07:02 AM
I've been thinking for a while. English is not my mother's tounge so I might be missing on that, but I wonder what it means to box someones ears? Is it a double ear slap, which would hurt a lot, or is it something less violent?

ETA: I didn't add anything, just changed Englich to English

Ishara
12-07-2011, 08:53 AM
LOL - that *would* hurt a lot! I've always felt that boxing ears meant a sort of slap upside the head.

The idiom dictionary says: to hit someone, usually as a punishment. Which is not at all helpful.

Wikipedia tells me that "box" is also a word for "blow" or "hit", generally involving the fist.

The urban disctionary favours your painful instinct, indicating that boxing ears means "To strike someone on one or both their ears with the flat of your palm,this totally destroys their balance and usually destroys their eardrums if done right."

Given that women are usually doing it to their husbands and/ or male friends, I'd favour my own interpretation or wikipedia's.

yks 6nnetu hing
12-07-2011, 09:12 AM
Wikipedia tells me that "box" is also a word for "blow" or "hit", generally involving the fist.

hence, I believe, the sport known as "boxing". So to box someone's ear is to hit them in the general vicinity of the ear.

KChan
12-07-2011, 11:50 AM
hence, I believe, the sport known as "boxing". So to box someone's ear is to hit them in the general vicinity of the ear.

Typically directly on the ear, yes. This is is not a threat to be taken lightly: depending on the position of the hand when contact is made, large amounts of air can be forced into the ear, and the resulting pressure can cause some serious damage. People have gone deaf because of it. Don't try this one at home, kids!

Crispin's Crispian
12-07-2011, 12:13 PM
Typically directly on the ear, yes. This is is not a threat to be taken lightly: depending on the position of the hand when contact is made, large amounts of air can be forced into the ear, and the resulting pressure can cause some serious damage. People have gone deaf because of it. Don't try this one at home, kids!

Indeed. Which is why it is ridiculous to box someone's ear because s/he didn't listen to you. It's like suspending a kid from school because he cut class.

Skyye
12-07-2011, 04:22 PM
1) One of the Amyrlin Seats titles is " keeper of the seals " how did she get that title? I thought only the male Aes Sedai patched the bore and applied the seals ? How would a female Aes Sedai know how to keep or defend them ?

2) Why does Ishamael get to be Nae' Blis ? He lost to Rand every time he has faced him. Even when Rand had no training at all ( end of EOTW )As Moridin, he is just moody and angsty..

I have not seen much from him that deserves getting to be 2nd in command. What did I miss that justified it?

yks 6nnetu hing
12-08-2011, 01:41 AM
Typically directly on the ear, yes.

well... in theory you're right. Knowing my own aim though, it's best to put in the little caveat.

Landro
12-08-2011, 01:41 AM
1) One of the Amyrlin Seats titles is " keeper of the seals " how did she get that title? I thought only the male Aes Sedai patched the bore and applied the seals ? How would a female Aes Sedai know how to keep or defend them ?

2) Why does Ishamael get to be Nae' Blis ? He lost to Rand every time he has faced him. Even when Rand had no training at all ( end of EOTW )As Moridin, he is just moody and angsty..

I have not seen much from him that deserves getting to be 2nd in command. What did I miss that justified it?

1. Sometimes people just give them selves names to make them seem more important. This is also very common in the southlands.

2. Ishy was behind the Trolloc wars and the shattering of the compact of the ten nations. He also broke up Hawkwing's empire and formed the Black Ajah. Then there are probably lots of things that happened off screen. He's also the only forsaken to truly support the DO's plans but the DO might not be aware of that.

GonzoTheGreat
12-08-2011, 04:39 AM
All the other Forsaken were only trying to improve their own standing, to gain more power for themselves. That was quite useful for the DO at first, which is why he let them do so for a long time. But it was not the right attitude for preparing for the LB, so none of them was really qualified for the Nae'blis position.
Ishamael lost each time, yes, but then, we're not sure the DO ever wanted him to win at all.

Terez
12-08-2011, 06:10 AM
1) One of the Amyrlin Seats titles is " keeper of the seals " how did she get that title? I thought only the male Aes Sedai patched the bore and applied the seals ? How would a female Aes Sedai know how to keep or defend them ?The men placed them but they started going crazy pretty soon after. No telling how they got the seals, but they don't require any special oversight, so I'm not sure why you think the women should have been totally incapable of it. Presumably they needed to be guarded because the True Power can destroy cuendillar. They were lost during the Trolloc Wars.

2) Why does Ishamael get to be Nae' Blis ? He lost to Rand every time he has faced him. Even when Rand had no training at all ( end of EOTW )As Moridin, he is just moody and angsty.
Ishamael is the only one of the Forsaken who isn't dumb enough to believe that the Dark One will grant him immortality. That's why he's the Dark One's most trusted servant - he's not going to balk when he figures out the real game plan. He already knows, and he has embraced it. Furthermore, he seems to be continually reborn to play this role - Brandon says that his soul is often intertwined with Rand's soul, much like Birgitte and Gaidal.

Skyye
12-08-2011, 06:10 PM
Thank you,

Terez, your answer about Nae' Blis makes sense. I tend to agree.
About the "keeper of the seals" title though. I guess that since they are they manifestation of the locks on the barn so to speak, some special knowledge would be required to keep the very essence and purpose of evil locked up?
If no special knowledge was required, why need a "keeper of the seals" at all? Just let the heart stones fall where they may.. yes ?

Terez
12-08-2011, 07:18 PM
I think I explained that already. They don't need help to function, but if they fall into the wrong hands, they can be destroyed by the True Power.

Zombie Sammael
12-09-2011, 04:53 AM
I think I explained that already. They don't need help to function, but if they fall into the wrong hands, they can be destroyed by the True Power.

Where do you get the idea that the TP can destroy cuendillar? I get that the DO's touch is corrupting the seals, but the True Power isn't quite the same thing. I can see how you might draw an inference from that, but if you have something a bit stronger I'd be interested to read it.

GonzoTheGreat
12-09-2011, 04:59 AM
Where do you get the idea that the TP can destroy cuendillar? I get that the DO's touch is corrupting the seals, but the True Power isn't quite the same thing. I can see how you might draw an inference from that, but if you have something a bit stronger I'd be interested to read it.The E've (male A'dam) was made of a form of cuendillar. Yet Rand managed to destroy it with the TP. Which suggests rather strongly that it is possible to destroy cuendillar with the TP.

Terez
12-09-2011, 05:16 AM
And Brandon confirmed it.

Zombie Sammael
12-09-2011, 06:07 AM
The E've (male A'dam) was made of a form of cuendillar. Yet Rand managed to destroy it with the TP. Which suggests rather strongly that it is possible to destroy cuendillar with the TP.

And Brandon confirmed it.

Ah, that makes sense now. Thanks - also found the quote, T.

Davian93
12-09-2011, 07:58 AM
And Brandon confirmed it.

Which, of course, makes you wonder why it was used to make the Seals in the first place...considering its sealing in the very property that destroys it.

GonzoTheGreat
12-09-2011, 08:11 AM
Which, of course, makes you wonder why it was used to make the Seals in the first place...considering its sealing in the very property that destroys it.Maybe Brandon hadn't told LTT in time? :p

LTT obviously knew about the TP in theory, but he may not have been all that well versed on its precise possibilities and limitations.

Terez
12-09-2011, 08:19 AM
And in truth, they might have only 'guarded' the seals so that they could reassure themselves every now and then that they were still there.

Davian93
12-09-2011, 08:31 AM
And in truth, they might have only 'guarded' the seals so that they could reassure themselves every now and then that they were still there.

Little do we know but there was likely some list deep in the dark recesses of the 13th Depository with comments like:

"Gave one seal to obscure Saldean farmer family to guard"
"Gave one seal to Saldean shopkeeper living in Maradon"
"Hid one Seal in some abandoned city in Waste"
"Planted one Seal as a prop display at Panarch's Palace"
"Left one Seal at Eye last time I was there...said hi to Green Man"
"Dropped one Seal outside some weird redstone doorway in Tear...was dark so I couldn't find it. Should be fine though"
"Gave Seal to weird guy that slurs words and paints nails...should be trustworthy though"


Suian just never thought to go look for it is all.
etc
etc

Zombie Sammael
12-09-2011, 09:10 AM
Which, of course, makes you wonder why it was used to make the Seals in the first place...considering its sealing in the very property that destroys it.

The True Power =/= the Dark One. They are obviously very closely interconnected, but they're not the same. If the seals - as focus points - had been made of iron or cloth, the DO would have had just as much opportunity to corrupt them as cuendillar. It's possible that despite his unique ability to corrupt and destroy cuendillar, the DO still has a harder time doing it to that than to anything else.

The Immortal One
12-09-2011, 09:26 AM
The True Power =/= the Dark One. They are obviously very closely interconnected, but they're not the same. If the seals - as focus points - had been made of iron or cloth, the DO would have had just as much opportunity to corrupt them as cuendillar. It's possible that despite his unique ability to corrupt and destroy cuendillar, the DO still has a harder time doing it to that than to anything else.

Besides, what else would you make the seals from? Heartstone is the hardest, most unbreakable substance you know of. Perhaps it's not totally suitable, but it's the best there is.

nagarue
12-11-2011, 06:53 AM
Something I have wondered about in the past and has begun to itch again recently. There is little information about the Creator in the WoT series. The only reference I remember clearly is with Moraine. When she speculates that she would almost think the creator was taking a hand in events if she didn't know it was impossible.


So my question is, why is it impossible, I guess whatever has made it impossible to intervene is also general knowledge in WoT, but has it ever been reveal to the readers.

GonzoTheGreat
12-11-2011, 07:24 AM
It has not been officially revealed, as far as I know.

My own guess is fairly simple:
The Creator and the DO are comparable beings, with comparable abilities. If the Creator were to reach in then the result would be similar to what it would be if the DO were to escape: destruction of the Wheel. Maybe (probably) the Creator could make a "limited hole", but if that then gave the DO an opening too, the result would be total destruction anyway.

Zombie Sammael
12-11-2011, 08:11 AM
Something I have wondered about in the past and has begun to itch again recently. There is little information about the Creator in the WoT series. The only reference I remember clearly is with Moraine. When she speculates that she would almost think the creator was taking a hand in events if she didn't know it was impossible.


So my question is, why is it impossible, I guess whatever has made it impossible to intervene is also general knowledge in WoT, but has it ever been reveal to the readers.

EDITED TO ADD: It's also quite possible that Moiraine thinks it is impossible for the Creator to intervene simply because he never has. Given the various crises that have faced the world - such as the bore, the tainting of Saidin, and the Breaking - it stands to reason to believe that the supposedly benevolent being who created the world would intervene to save it if he could. He hasn't, and therefore it must be because it is impossible for him to do so. This answers your first question about impossibility, and below I explain some reasons why I think it might be impossible.

We have this, from Rand's thoughts:

Irritably, Rand pushed his sleeves down and dropped into a chair. What he had done made no matter to Logain. The man knew saidin was clean, but he could not believe Rand or any man had actually done the cleansing. Did he think the Creator had decided to stretch out a merciful hand after three thousand years of suffering? The Creator had made the world and then left humankind to make of it what they would, a heaven or the Pit of Doom by their choosing. The Creator had made many worlds, watched each flower or die, and gone on to make endless worlds beyond. A gardener did not weep for each blossom that fell.

For an instant, he thought those must have been Lews Therin’s reflections. He had never gone on that way about the Creator or anything else that he recalled. But he could feel Lews Therin nodding in approval, a man listening to someone else. Still, it was not the kind of thing he would have considered before Lews Therin.

There are a few problems that mean, unfortunately, this isn't exactly authoritative: these are either Rand's own thoughts regarding the Creator, or Lews Therin's, or (more likely) thoughts and philosophies of Ishamael "transmitted" through the link between Rand and Moridin. Still, it's largely the best we've got, and it does seem to make sense.

Also, if you believe the voice at Tarwin's Gap was the Creator - and there's a pretty strong faction that favours it actually being the DO - the two align to at least some extent, although the very fact that the Creator cared enough to "intervene" by speaking to Rand also contradicts it.

Basically, however, it would appear the reason the Creator doesn't take part is because he's off creating other worlds. We know of at least three within the series itself, so it stands to reason that he didn't just make a few worlds and then stop. If his purpose is to create as the Dark One's is to corrupt and destroy, there is no way he could stop himself from doing that, and acting as a preserver is entirely outside his remit.

nagarue
12-11-2011, 12:47 PM
Good answers they do make sense, I had forgotten that bit from CoT.

Marie Curie 7
12-13-2011, 09:24 PM
Something I have wondered about in the past and has begun to itch again recently. There is little information about the Creator in the WoT series. The only reference I remember clearly is with Moraine. When she speculates that she would almost think the creator was taking a hand in events if she didn't know it was impossible.

So my question is, why is it impossible, I guess whatever has made it impossible to intervene is also general knowledge in WoT, but has it ever been reveal to the readers.

RJ revealed why the Creator does not interfere:

ACOS Signing Report - Michael Martin: October 12, 1996 (http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan/msg/4dbea41da9aa1c04)

Q: Having encountered a similar "theology" in Donaldson's Covenant series, I have been quite curious why the Creator can't act on His own world. It didn't seem to make sense, except as a plot device.

A: RJ answered this question. His thesis was this: A perfect Creator should create a perfect creation. To act, miraculously or no, on this world, would be tantamount to acknowledging imperfection in Himself. So, when humanity screwed things up, they've been left on their own to "patch" things up. :-)

Dajoran
12-14-2011, 05:52 AM
Which, of course, makes you wonder why it was used to make the Seals in the first place...considering its sealing in the very property that destroys it.

Wait wait - hold the phone - the True Power was used in creating the seals??

How'd I miss that?

EDIT: :o Sorry... I didn't realise we were talking about HeartStone

Enigma
12-14-2011, 04:00 PM
Which, of course, makes you wonder why it was used to make the Seals in the first place...considering its sealing in the very property that destroys it.

Firstly LTT did not have a lot of options at the time. It was either seal the DO away and use the strongest material they knew of to anchor the seals or go with Plan B and try to take the CK ter'angreal which LTT seemed to think would not work even if they got the ter'angreal or Plan C, kept fighting and lose.

Given that no one knew about the taint LTT probably figured that if they could seal the DO away his influence in the world would be reduced, it would give them a fighting chance against the Shadow armies and presuming that they could defeat said armies they would have a few hundred years at worst to figure out what to do about the DO.

confused at birth
12-20-2011, 10:02 PM
On the whole fade looking makes you scared thing,

Is it when they are looking at you or when you are looking at them because only one of those seems scary to me?


and how do they sleep wouldnt things always bug them since they dont have eyes to close?

Khoram
12-20-2011, 10:09 PM
On the whole fade looking makes you scared thing,

Is it when they are looking at you or when you are looking at them because only one of those seems scary to me?


and how do they sleep wouldnt things always bug them since they dont have eyes to close?

Fades aren't like normal beings (obviously) - so they have no need to sleep. Besides, they're creatures of the Shadow - what need would they have of sleep?

confused at birth
12-20-2011, 10:11 PM
Besides, they're creatures of the Shadow - what need would they have of sleep?

that might be why they are so evil


sleep makes mellow

always thought part of why they did that link thing with the trollocs so they could sleep without one of them cutting its head off

Khoram
12-20-2011, 10:18 PM
that might be why they are so evil


sleep makes mellow

always thought part of why they did that link thing with the trollocs so they could sleep without one of them cutting its head off

And I would think that the look of the Eyeless goes both ways - but when you look directly at them, it's more apparent.

Way back in EotW, when Rand was walking to Emond's Field with Tam, he felt like he was being watched; he had that prickling sensation at the back of his neck, which I would assume was specifically meant for Fades.

When he turned to look, and saw the Fade, he couldn't look away - it took his stumbling on a rock to break his gaze.

Here's the quote:

As Rand watched his side of the road, the feeling grew in him that he was being watched. For a while he tried to shrug it off. Nothing moved or made a sound among the trees, except the wind. But the feeling not only persisted, it grew stronger. The hairs on his arms stirred; his skin prickled as if it itched on the inside.

...

He glanced over his shoulder... and blinked. Not more than twenty spans back down the road a cloaked figure on horseback followed them, horse and rider alike black, dull and ungleaming...

Queasiness settled in his stomach. There was only shadow to see in the hood, but he felt hatred as sharply as if he could see a snarling face, hatred for everything that lived. Hatred for him most of all, for him above all things.

Abruptly a stone caught his heel and he stumbled, breaking his eyes away from the dark horseman...

confused at birth
12-20-2011, 10:24 PM
I would think that the look of the Eyeless goes both ways - but when you look directly at them, it's more apparent

guess that makes sense was just reading the part where Lan said

the look of the eyeless is fear

seems like it would be a good weapon if they could just make you afraid by looking at you but it seems like you would sense it but doesnt make you afraid unless you are looking at where the eyes should be.

Landro
12-21-2011, 03:23 AM
According to Lanfear, Fades are denied dreams. This might indicate that they sleep but don't dream.

confused at birth
12-23-2011, 10:38 PM
did you lot ever decide what was happening with logain and his Aes Sedai girlfriend when he wasnt hiding his feelings from the bond?

I always figured he was dropping them in during sex to play with her but reading the older stuff on here you seem to have all sorts of other ideas that dont seem as fun

Cortar
12-27-2011, 11:02 AM
Do Ogier from Seanchen feel the Longing?

Why do Ogier feel the Longing at all?

Where did Ogier come from? I am assuming they were created because this world is supposedly many years in our future and I don't see Ogier running around anywhere. Then that begs the question: Why were they created?

suttree
12-27-2011, 11:13 AM
Do Ogier from Seanchen feel the Longing?

Why do Ogier feel the Longing at all?

Where did Ogier come from? I am assuming they were created because this world is supposedly many years in our future and I don't see Ogier running around anywhere. Then that begs the question: Why were they created?

1./2.
1. DragonCon 3 September 2005 - Emma reporting

Q: Do Seanchan Ogier have the Longing?
RJ: No. The Longing is a effect of being separated from the stedding for a long time during the Breaking. At the parts that later became the Seanchan empire, there were by chance many more stedding, so they were not separated from the stedding for so long.

3. Ogier are not constructs. People think they came from a parallel world such as where the Finns live. That is why they are discussing opening the Book of Translations to return from where they came.

Cortar
12-27-2011, 11:18 AM
1./2.


3. Ogier are not constructs. People think they came from a parallel world such as where the Finns live. That is why they are discussing opening the Book of Translations to return from where they came.

Thank you!

A few more:

How many times can the Horn of Valere be blown? If there isn't there a limit is there a cooldown between uses?

GonzoTheGreat
12-27-2011, 11:22 AM
How many times can the Horn of Valere be blown? If there isn't there a limit is there a cooldown between uses?
Don't know. Don't know.

Which, while not much help, is as accurate as possible with the available information. :p

Cortar
12-27-2011, 11:28 AM
Don't know. Don't know.

Which, while not much help, is as accurate as possible with the available information. :p

There has to be a limit, I can't accept the only reason they don't grab the horn and insta-pwn the blight is because everyone is holding a massive idiot-ball

but thank you for the answer anyways

SauceyBlueConfetti
12-27-2011, 01:33 PM
Interesting question. Could be the makings of a theory...is there a DOWN side to the Horn blowing? Someone blows the Horn and one of the Heroes cannot be spun back out again?? Or a Hero can be killed in the battle and never return, sort of like dying in Tel'a'dreamy'land.

GonzoTheGreat
12-27-2011, 02:59 PM
Interesting question. Could be the makings of a theory...is there a DOWN side to the Horn blowing?
Well, it would tend to increase the number of witnesses each time you blow the Horn. And the more witnesses there are, the more people will know that it's you who has control of the Horn. And after a couple of them unsuccessfully steal it, they'll also know that it won't do them any good as long as you live. Which, come to think of it, is a problem that can be solved.

Now ask yourself: would you want them to solve that problem?

Tomp
12-29-2011, 01:34 AM
I know that I could work it out with some effort but I guess some of you already has the answer ready.

I was wondering how long time has passed (in the books) between the start of tEotW and the end of ToM?

Sarevok
12-29-2011, 04:38 AM
There's a great website with a day-by-day listing, but I can't find it right now.
However, about 3 years have passed from tEotW. From 998 NE till 1000 NE.

jamesthomka5
01-03-2012, 06:55 AM
What I really wonder; Is Tam educated enough (well traveled enough to hear about the prophesy), or is the prophesy of the Dragon known enough in the general population that he would have suspected that the child he found at the Dragonmount slope, could become the Dragon Reborn?

Weird Harold
01-03-2012, 07:14 AM
There's a great website with a day-by-day listing, but I can't find it right now.
However, about 3 years have passed from tEotW. From 998 NE till 1000 NE.
That would be http://www.stevenac.net/wot/wotchron.htm

Unfortunately, it hasn't been updated for ToM and only documents approx. 800 days of storyline.

maacaroni
01-03-2012, 07:21 AM
What I really wonder; Is Tam educated enough (well traveled enough to hear about the prophesy), or is the prophesy of the Dragon known enough in the general population that he would have suspected that the child he found at the Dragonmount slope, could become the Dragon Reborn?

There's two answers to this that fit:

1. He didn't. The KC was only for scholars and Aes Sedai and only the general outline was known to all.

2. He did but he didn't think it was relevant. How would he know that the baby was 'born of a maiden'? Many of the prophecies are vague and open to interpretation and some are not even about the dragon reborn at all.

Either explain Tam's thought processes, perfectly.

GonzoTheGreat
01-03-2012, 07:38 AM
3. He did not ever expect it to actually happen to himself.
Rand, who was the actual DR, also had a lot of trouble believing it, even when things started to become quite obvious. They weren't anywhere near that obvious when Tam got into the game.

Green Man 22
01-03-2012, 12:09 PM
There's two answers to this that fit:

1. He didn't. The KC was only for scholars and Aes Sedai and only the general outline was known to all.

2. He did but he didn't think it was relevant. How would he know that the baby was 'born of a maiden'? Many of the prophecies are vague and open to interpretation and some are not even about the dragon reborn at all.

Either explain Tam's thought processes, perfectly.

I think there are some issues with #2. In the first book, when Rand is dragging Tam through the Westwood to Emond's Field (chapter 6), Tam talks about finding the baby on the slope of the mountain, and he talks about how the Aiel let their women fight alongside the men, sometimes. While it is possible that he wouldn't know the Aiel women were called maidens of the spear, you would think that an experienced fighter who saw action against the Aiel would be familiar with that term.

Terez
01-03-2012, 12:13 PM
There's two answers to this that fitIndeed. These are the two:
INTERVIEW:Apr 5th, 1996
Balticon XXX - Bill Garrett (http://linuxmafia.com/~garrett/jordan/balticon.html)

ROBERT JORDAN
Tam "knows" that Rand is the Dragon Reborn. Jordan said that Tam has all the clues he needs to figure out that Rand is the Dragon Reborn. Whether or not Tam will admit it to himself is another matter. Jordan said that Tam merely finding Rand as a baby on the slopes of Dragonmount wasn't enough of a clue—even if Tam were familiar with that prophecy then, few people think about those things or expect them to happen literally to them—but that, plus the fact that Rand has disappeared off with Aes Sedai who say he's important, and the fact that the world is going crazy, should give Tam enough information to make the conclusion.

INTERVIEW: Sep 4th, 2005
DragonCon Report - Matt Hatch (http://theoryland.yuku.com/topic/9910/t/Third-Q-amp-A-Sunday.html#.Tn4qtr-4LqY)



QUESTION
Before it became public knowledge that Rand was the Dragon Reborn, did Tam al'Thor know or suspect that Rand was the Dragon Reborn or could channel?


ROBERT JORDAN
No, Tam had no inkling of this.

fdsaf3
01-05-2012, 11:09 AM
Suppose the Dark One has a material body. Further, suppose that a channeler channeled balefire at the Dark One. We know from the RJ interview database that the amount of the One Power required to channel enough balefire to destroy the Dark One would destroy the world.

Q: Why doesn't somebody just balefire the Dark One?
RJ: The quantity necessary would destroy the world.

I have a few tangentially related questions to this interview answer.

1. What would happen if someone channeled only a small bit of balefire at the Dark One?

From this chunk of the interview database, I gather that only a small bit of the Dark One (who is an inanimate object? - maybe another tangential question) would be destroyed??

Marie Curie: Even a stone in a wall has a thread in the Pattern, right? You said so...
Brandon: As I understand it, Robert Jordan specifically said that even inanimate objects have a thread.
Marie: So, that explains why when, say, a stone pillar is balefired, only the portion that balefire hits disintegrates...
Brandon: Right...
Marie: ...because all of those little bits would have their own threads...
Brandon: Theoretically. And I was wrong on that for a while - I had to go back and look at interviews before I...[to Terez] Were you the one that sent me that?
Terez: Yeah, I tweeted that to you...
Brandon: Yeah...the boat that Nynaeve was on that got balefired...
Marie: She pointed out that inanimate objects...their threads are burned back. But that also explains why a person who has one thread tied to their soul would be completely eliminated by balefire.
Brandon: Mmmhmm.
Marie: So why did their clothes go away?
Terez: (laughs)
Brandon: Balefire does spread a bit, from what I've read.
Marie: Then why doesn't it for the column?
Brandon: It does, but it's like, you know...just a little bit.
Marie: Right, but if you use a pencil-thin bit of balefire, right, and I shot your shirt, why would the whole shirt disappear?
Brandon: Um, if it goes through and hits you, then you disintegrate, and it will spread out from you.
Marie: Then, that doesn't explain Nynaeve's boat.2
Brandon: No, it doesn't. ... I will be perfectly honest with you. I've worked through and tried to figure out the rules of balefiring inanimate objects quite a bit...because we've got the whole thing with Nynaeve and...
Marie: The rowers.
Brandon: Yeah. Well no, not even that...earlier than that with the balefire rod that's like cutting swaths through the palace in Tanchico, and it's just cutting lines through the palace, just slicing big holes...
Marie: Right. That's the stone pillars...the multiple threads...
Terez: It did the same thing in Caemlyn with Rand and Rahvin.
Brandon: Yeah. And that's searing little lines, but then you hit something living, and it all *poofs*. It actually becomes motes...like it hits and it spreads to the full, living thing, and then *poof* that all goes away. And so...the clothes are something I hadn't even thought of, but balefire does seem to spread a little bit...
Marie: You would think that, you know...where the balefire hit, obviously there would be a hole, the person would *poof*, and their clothes would drop.
Brandon: Yeah. But it's got to spread a little bit because of that. But then, you know, with the boat...yeah.
Marie: You can't imagine how many debates we've had on Theoryland about the boat...
Terez: Oh god...
Brandon: The boat is an outlier. You could argue a couple of things on it - distance and power level could both be involved.
Marie: And there are other outliers, like in TGS...um...
Terez: The palace?
Marie: Yeah, the palace...
Brandon: That, I did intentionally. Looking through everything that is happening, and saying, 'He is continuing to pump balefire into this thing, to expand it through into the entire thing...
Terez: So, it's a deliberate, directive thing...
Brandon: That's got to be possible, because in the Age of Legends...
Terez: Right, whole cities...
Brandon: Right, whole cities. And so there's got to be a force-to-spread multiplier. Does that make sense?
Marie: Sure.
Brandon: So, I'm using a force-to-spread multiplier. And so you could maybe make that argument with the boat.

I guess what I'm really struggling with is A) how balefire would affect the Dark One if only a small bit were used, and B) how balefire would work at all on the Dark One.

2. The Dark One doesn't have a thread in the Pattern, correct? This seems obvious, but I just want to double check. I'm recalling the analogy that the Dark One's influence seeping into the world is equivalent to him poking his finger through a hole in cloth, which I am taking to assume that the Dark One is outside the pattern. Again, this is probably obvious.

3. Essentially, the effect of balefire is to burn a thread out of the Pattern, yes? So again, if the Dark One doesn't have a thread in the Pattern, how would Balefire have an impact on it?

GonzoTheGreat
01-05-2012, 11:34 AM
3. Essentially, the effect of balefire is to burn a thread out of the Pattern, yes?
Well, that is one effect. It may not be the only one.

Based on the descriptions, balefire also sort of acts like a laser beam*. Normally that's pretty irrelevant, as anything that is hit will be annihilated before the beam hits it. But in the case of the DO, the "balefire effect" doesn't happen, so that leaves the laser beam secondary effect.
Thus, it may be that balefire wouldn't be all that much different from other fire cast with the OP, when it comes to the DO. And in that case, it does sort of make sense that by the time you use enough of it to destroy him, then, as a side effect, you would also be tearing the Pattern to pieces.

* Well, the SciFi version of laser beams. Real ones don't produce quite such nice lines of light in the air unless it is very dusty or something.

fdsaf3
01-06-2012, 07:50 AM
So maybe the questions in my previous post were the wrong questions to be asking. Maybe I should have asked why the temporal effects of balefire wouldn't affect the Dark One.

Is it because the Dark One doesn't have a thread in the Pattern? I think that might be the simplest explanation. No thread implies that the temporal effect of balefire (burning a thread out of the pattern as if it never existed) wouldn't work.

Ok. I can wrap my head around that.

fdsaf3
01-06-2012, 11:25 AM
Here's another question that ties directly to a theory I'm working on.

The ta'veren in WoT became so right before Moiraine and Lan showed up (quote from database is there, can't pull up the database right now for some reason). Rand was *born* Dragon Reborn based on causal preconditions which occurred prior to his control or knowledge (being born on the slopes of Dragonmount, etc.). Ok.

Does this mean that there are turnings of the Wheel where the Dragon or Dragon Reborn are *not* ta'veren? Ta'veren are corrective measures the Pattern creates to get itself back on track, right? So are Heroes of the Horn, and the Dragon soul is a Hero.

I'm just confused. Is being the Dragon the same thing as being the Dragon Reborn, or is the nomenclature "Dragon Reborn" merely an artifact of this Age? Was Lews Therin Telamon *always* the Dragon, or did he assume the role? Were there prophesies which foretold his arrival?

GonzoTheGreat
01-06-2012, 11:37 AM
It is possible that Rand/LTT has had a previous life in the Second Age, in which nothing really remarkable happened, and he never had to do anything Dragony.

It is also possible that if LTT hadn't broken up with Mierin, she would not have been involved with the "get power at any price" project, said project wouldn't have worked, and the DO would have remained locked up. In that case, LTT would have lived out his life without actually "becoming the Dragon". I suspect that in that case, a few thousand years later things would have gone to pot anyway, and Rand's soul (under whatever name) would have done similar things to what LTT did.

eht slat meit
01-06-2012, 11:41 AM
Does this mean that there are turnings of the Wheel where the Dragon or Dragon Reborn are *not* ta'veren? Ta'veren are corrective measures the Pattern creates to get itself back on track, right? So are Heroes of the Horn, and the Dragon soul is a Hero.

It's been indicated that the two aren't necessarily required in conjunction, I believe, but you'd have to look to one of the quotemasters for specifics. That said, as I understand it, one does not -have- to be both, but the nature of the corrective mechanism might require something like ta'veren nature to fulfill its role.

I'm just confused. Is being the Dragon the same thing as being the Dragon Reborn, or is the nomenclature "Dragon Reborn" merely an artifact of this Age?

1. Dragon "Reborn" is a designation that comes from the prophecy, and it could have been taken a couple of ways before, but seems to be solidly in the camp of Rand = LTT now. Not the same body, but the same mind. The title serves as a distinction between the two men, because while they may be of the same mind, they're not of the same flesh.

2. "Dragon" is the title granted to LTT during the... War of Power? Theories abound as to the source, as well as current discussion, but no solid conclusions.

Was Lews Therin Telamon *always* the Dragon, or did he assume the role? Were there prophesies which foretold his arrival?

Assumed the title, but not the role, is how I'd put it. He was born HoTH (role), but what his specific Heroic Nature is isn't completely clear. Champion of the Light? Fisher King?

As to prophecies foretelling -LTT's- arrival, it's possible but... that's an age long forgotten.

Weird Harold
01-06-2012, 11:56 AM
Rand was *born* Dragon Reborn based on causal preconditions which occurred prior to his control or knowledge (being born on the slopes of Dragonmount, etc.). Ok.

Without going into a long discussion about how Souls work in then WOT, Rand is the Dragon Reborn because he posesses the same Soul as the Dragon. There is no possibility of anyone else being, or becoming, the dragon reborn because it is a literal description rather than a title.

Does this mean that there are turnings of the Wheel where the Dragon or Dragon Reborn are *not* ta'veren? Ta'veren are corrective measures the Pattern creates to get itself back on track, right? So are Heroes of the Horn, and the Dragon soul is a Hero.

The Pattern enables/disables ta'veren as it requires one. There is nothing inherent in being ta'veren that requires being a HotH or vice versa.

Presumably, the Pattern requires three very strong focii to guide events to the correct time and place for T'G. There is no reason that those three focii have to be the Three Amigos. In this Turning they are TDR and his two closest friends (all three are probably also HotH, too,) but some other Turning, the optimum configuration for the Pattern's purpose might be three Heroes and three ta'veren spread over six (or more) individuals.

Tomp
01-06-2012, 06:37 PM
How are Trollocs produced?

Are there female Trollocs? - since Myrddraal are the spawn of Trollocs

Tomp
01-06-2012, 06:44 PM
How are Trollocs produced?

Are there female Trollocs? - since Myrddraal are the spawn of Trollocs

Found the answer myself, sorry.

Zombie Sammael
01-06-2012, 06:45 PM
How are Trollocs produced?

Are there female Trollocs? - since Myrddraal are the spawn of Trollocs

Yes. According to one of the glossaries (I think), they like being pregnant.

confused at birth
01-06-2012, 06:48 PM
How are Trollocs produced?

lack of stamina, lies and wood alcohol

Lupusdeusest
01-07-2012, 06:24 AM
Here's a (few) question(s). This turning is no different to any other turning (via RJ). Death in the Wolf Dream is final. T'A'R holds all wolves that have or will ever be.
So. Is Hopper mysteriously made anew each Turning? Or does a different wolf thread take his part, leading to the eventual destruction of all wolves?
For that matter, can one reclaim wolf souls lost in a Shadowbrother?
Are Wolfbrothers the way the pattern makes new Wolf Threads?

Another question: would killing a HotH in T'A'R kill them outright?

Zombie Sammael
01-07-2012, 07:29 AM
Here's a (few) question(s). This turning is no different to any other turning (via RJ).

Not quite:

Q: At one point in the story we see Ishamael talking to Rand, and telling him that they have fought countless times in the past, but this is the final time. Is there anything about his Age that makes it special?
RJ: No . . . Every Age is repeated, there is nothing that makes this Age any different from any other turnings of the Wheel. The Wheel is endless.

The question he's answering is whether there's anything intrinsic about this particular Age that makes it special, and he says that there isn't. Further, he does say that small changes are made each turning:

- I think of time in this world as fixed circular, but with a drifting variation. There are slight differences in the Pattern each time through so that if you thought of the Pattern as a tapestry and held up two successive weaves, you couldn’t see any differences from a distance, only close up, but the more time turnings between tapestries, the more changes are apparent. But the basic Pattern always remains the same.

So there are small changes.

Death in the Wolf Dream is final. T'A'R holds all wolves that have or will ever be.
So. Is Hopper mysteriously made anew each Turning? Or does a different wolf thread take his part, leading to the eventual destruction of all wolves?
For that matter, can one reclaim wolf souls lost in a Shadowbrother?
Are Wolfbrothers the way the pattern makes new Wolf Threads?

Another question: would killing a HotH in T'A'R kill them outright?

We don't really know what happens if you die in the wolf dream, or what happens to ordinary non-hero souls when they die. It might be that if you're a wolf or a Hero, and you die in TAR, you simply move on to wherever ordinary souls go when they die to await rebirth. Presumably you'd have to re-Hero if that happened when you were a Hero, i.e. you'd have to do some heroic deed that bound you to the Wheel again. But it looks as if there must be some mechanism for, if not making new wolf threads, getting them back into TAR. Eventually killing all wolves might be the reasoning behind Slayer's liking for killing other wolves in TAR.

Lupusdeusest
01-07-2012, 08:29 AM
Ahhh, thank you very much! I didn't do as much research as I should have done prior to posting - the thought of searching with keywords "Wheel", "turning", and "same" was a little... daunting.
Presumably, then, one of the adjustments is the rejoining of threads if needed.
I wish we did know precisely the mechanics of the death of a wolf's soul in TAR, but... oh well.
Thank you very very very much! :D

Terez
01-07-2012, 08:31 AM
We don't really know what happens if you die in the wolf dream, or what happens to ordinary non-hero souls when they die.1. Depends on whether you're dead already. If you are, it's permanent death. If not, you're okay.

2. Yes we do; RJ said there is a normal afterlife.

But it looks as if there must be some mechanism for, if not making new wolf threads, getting them back into TAR. Eventually killing all wolves might be the reasoning behind Slayer's liking for killing other wolves in TAR.He's making a special kind of Darkhound.

Terez
01-07-2012, 08:33 AM
Ahhh, thank you very much! I didn't do as much research as I should have done prior to posting - the thought of searching with keywords "Wheel", "turning", and "same" was a little... daunting.In the future, try the interview database, or 13th Depository. Both are linked in my sig, and both are more likely to turn up helpful results than a forum search here.

Zombie Sammael
01-07-2012, 08:37 AM
In the future, try the interview database, or 13th Depository. Both are linked in my sig, and both are more likely to turn up helpful results than a forum search here.

Seconded - that's pretty much where I get my info from any time I answer a question here. I find 13th Depository slightly harder to search (!) than the current interview database, though.

Thanks for pointing out the bit about the "normal" afterlife - I'd forgotten it, though quite what that means is anyone's guess.

confused at birth
01-07-2012, 03:09 PM
I find 13th Depository slightly harder to search (!) than the current interview database, though.



is it just because of the format or do you do what I do and forget and end up reading the whole post and it comments each time?

I like it there is a lot of info on there

Zombie Sammael
01-07-2012, 03:23 PM
is it just because of the format or do you do what I do and forget and end up reading the whole post and it comments each time?

I like it there is a lot of info on there

I struggle a bit with the search function, and with their indices. That might say more about my search skills than their interface, or it might not.

But don't let my feelings put anyone off - 13th Dep is a great resource, and as Confused says, it's very hard not to get distracted reading all the in-depth analysis on there.

Terez
01-07-2012, 03:30 PM
Seconded - that's pretty much where I get my info from any time I answer a question here. I find 13th Depository slightly harder to search (!) than the current interview database, though.Use the actual search bar instead of the index. Sometimes that helps. Sometimes the index is better. It's organized by Linda Logic; you kind of have to get a feel for it.

confused at birth
01-07-2012, 03:40 PM
It's organized by Linda Logic; you kind of have to get a feel for it.

once you get used to it its fine but that can take a while I guess, looking for a post under the book that inspired it is a little wierd when you are looking for a person.

Use the actual search bar instead of the index.

yep think up a key word, try it again with the correct spelling then keep hitting next until you find the post you are looking for not hard at all:p

Lupusdeusest
01-07-2012, 04:34 PM
I always get horribly and hopelessly sidetracked when I go on 13th D, hence my avoidance of it. It's like Wikipedia.
And yes, it was actually searching the quote db with those terms that daunted me lol.
Do wolves -have- an afterlife? I honestly though TAR was it for wolves.

Terez
01-07-2012, 04:50 PM
I always get horribly and hopelessly sidetracked when I go on 13th D, hence my avoidance of it. It's like Wikipedia.
And yes, it was actually searching the quote db with those terms that daunted me lol.
Do wolves -have- an afterlife? I honestly though TAR was it for wolves.Yes, that is their afterlife. They're there during regular life, and there after death, and apparently the only difference is that dead wolves can't enter the real world, and if they die in the afterlife, death is permanent. Again, it's the same for Heroes.

Zombie Sammael
01-07-2012, 05:05 PM
Yes, that is their afterlife. They're there during regular life, and there after death, and apparently the only difference is that dead wolves can't enter the real world, and if they die in the afterlife, death is permanent. Again, it's the same for Heroes.

So going back to what Lupus (is it okay if I just call you Lupus?) asked initially, that presumably means that eventually the world will run out of wolves, and presumably during that turning the Wheel will turn to foxes. Or hyenas. Or that there's some method of getting new wolves. I liked her idea of Wolfbrothers being a way of getting new wolf souls. Be interesting if Perrin's ultimate fate were to become Hopper himself.

Lupusdeusest
01-08-2012, 01:01 AM
is it okay if I just call you Lupus?... his idea ...

Yes, but you have the bumps in the wrong place :p

Zombie Sammael
01-08-2012, 07:08 AM
Yes, but you have the bumps in the wrong place :p

Ahhhh... I was trying to work out what you meant, then looked at your twitter and realised! Sorry about that! People have made the opposite mistake about me, actually.

Lupusdeusest
01-08-2012, 08:12 AM
Ahhhh... I was trying to work out what you meant, then looked at your twitter and realised! Sorry about that! People have made the opposite mistake about me, actually.

You're not the first on here to have pronoun woes with me - just the third :p
Really? But... it says Sammael... and... :confused:




ALSO: Has anyone ever had a moment this awesome? http://lupus-deus-est.deviantart.com/art/Saidin-in-a-Captcha-278305548

Zombie Sammael
01-08-2012, 08:22 AM
You're not the first on here to have pronoun woes with me - just the third :p
Really? But... it says Sammael... and... :confused:




ALSO: Has anyone ever had a moment this awesome? http://lupus-deus-est.deviantart.com/art/Saidin-in-a-Captcha-278305548

Yes, really. I did point that out. I think at the time we were having some of the semi-regular gender debates on here, and since I tend to come down on the side of the liberation of women, it may have contributed to some confusion.

siggsiggdarius
01-15-2012, 05:37 PM
-it is written in the books that the hero's of the horn will follow evil people that sounds the horn too.
-And it it's also written that if the dragon is there they will follow him instead.

so if the evil side sound the horn in the last battle they will follow the dragon anyways?

PS i haven't read the 2 last books so don't spoil!

fdsaf3
01-15-2012, 08:54 PM
Theoretically, could a man leading a circle with a woman channel saidar to Heal another man being severed?

Terez
01-15-2012, 08:56 PM
Theoretically, yes. But men weave saidar differently than women, and the formulation of the weave might make a difference.

Seeker
01-15-2012, 10:18 PM
Theoretically, yes. But men weave saidar differently than women, and the formulation of the weave might make a difference.

I'm guessing that you're basing that off the scene where Nynaeve watches Ayako and Donal Sandomere, Aisling Noon and her Asha'man scour dead trollocs from the manor lawn. She notes that the flows must have been woven by men because they had been forced into place.

It's important to note that both of these men are inexperienced in the ways of saidar and they're so used to forcing the power to do what they want that working gently is still a foreign concept to them.

Given time and practice, they might be able to handle the flows in the same way women do.

Terez
01-15-2012, 10:22 PM
I'm guessing that you're basing that off the scene where Nynaeve watches Ayako and Donal Sandomere, Aisling Noon and her Asha'man scour dead trollocs from the manor lawn.No. I'm basing it off the Cleansing and the observations about the residue. That, and RJ's ideas about men and women having certain fundamental differences in the way they think (in other words, there's no reason to assume that it's a matter of experience because it fits with RJ's mentality).

GonzoTheGreat
01-16-2012, 04:56 AM
Given time and practice, they might be able to handle the flows in the same way women do.
Maybe, but then there's the question: how much time and practice would be required?

There is actual evidence from TGS that Semirhage hasn't had enough time and practice:
"Yes," Semirhage said, almost to herself. "Now, if I can remember. . . . The male way of doing this is so odd, sometimes."

Landro
01-16-2012, 05:01 AM
Maybe, but then there's the question: how much time and practice would be required?

There is actual evidence from TGS that Semirhage hasn't had enough time and practice:

The problem with the Forsaken is that they lack the trust to surrender to form a ring. If they had had more trust in each other they wouldn't have been routed at the Cleansing.

Oden
01-16-2012, 06:01 AM
The forsaken should have had as much training with linking as anyone else in the age of legends. It wasn't until the Bore that they started being distrustful of anyone. Although Semirhage might have been an exception. Considering how long she tortured her patients without being caught, she must have done all the channeling without being near a woman capable of healing to any great degree. And if there isn't a woman nearby there's only a slim chance that she was linked to a man while working.

yks 6nnetu hing
01-16-2012, 06:16 AM
-it is written in the books that the hero's of the horn will follow evil people that sounds the horn too.
-And it it's also written that if the dragon is there they will follow him instead.

so if the evil side sound the horn in the last battle they will follow the dragon anyways?

PS i haven't read the 2 last books so don't spoil!

Moved the post to General Wot question thread, was previously in the unanswered questions board (=questions yet to be asked of Brandon & team)

Cortar
01-16-2012, 11:10 PM
In the AoL did everyone speak the "Old Tongue" or what Randlanders speak now?

Terez
01-16-2012, 11:32 PM
They spoke the Old Tongue.

INTERVIEW:Oct 19th, 1998Barnes and Noble Chat (http://www.sevenspokes.com/author/chat-bn-1998.html)


MARK FERGUSON FROM EDMONTON, ALBERTA
First, I'd like to thank you for your incredible Wheel of Time series. It's given me incredible reading enjoyment as well as given me the opportunity to build Wheel of Time areas on an online internet game, a MUD [Multiple User Domain]. My question is when was the transition period between the Old Tongue and the new tongue? I assumed it was after the Breaking, but many of Mat's memories still have the Old Tongue in them, and they were long after. When was the change, and what caused it?


ROBERT JORDAN
I have gone into this in some depth in other places, but basically after the Breaking, the primary language was still what is called the Old Tongue. In the period between the Breaking and the Trolloc Wars, what would become the language spoken today began to develop as a common or vulgar tongue. During the period between the Trolloc Wars and the War of the Hundred Years, that vulgar tongue supplanted the Old Tongue as the usual or everyday mode of speech, and the Old Tongue regressed to being more and more something of scholars. At the time of Artur Hawkwing, anyone who was educated, whether noble or commoner, could speak and write the Old Tongue, but in everyday life, most people used something very much like what is spoken today. And it was the simple swamp.

Cortar
01-16-2012, 11:52 PM
They spoke the Old Tongue.

So then how were the Forsaken able to adapt so quickly to a land that spoke a language they shouldn't understand

Terez
01-16-2012, 11:58 PM
I take it you haven't explored the interview database yet? (See the link in my sig.)
INTERVIEW:Jan 25th, 2005TOR Questions of the Week Part II (http://13depository.blogspot.com/2009/03/tor-questions-of-week.html)


WEEK 14 QUESTION
If the Forsaken were sealed away in Shayol Ghul since the Age of Legends, with no contact with the outside world, wouldn't they be speaking the Old Tongue when they woke back up? How did they learn the Common Tongue?


ROBERT JORDAN
They still do speak the Old Tongue among themselves, but the first two who were freed, Aginor and Balthamel, had been held very near to the edge of the sealing, the reason they were so visibly affected and twisted while the rest came out whole and healthy, and they were very much aware of what had gone on in the world outside. You might say they had floated in limbo while watching three thousand plus years roll by, with the ability to zoom in. That is probably the only reason they didn't emerge entirely mad. In truth, those two have a much better understanding of the current world than any of the others because they watched it forming. They don't have a complete knowledge, because they couldn't see and hear everything at once, but they have an overview that is unavailable to any of the others, excepting Ishamael to a lesser extent. But then, he's a special case.

For the rest (aside from Ishamael), who spend those thousands of years in a dreamless sleep, the language spoken "here and now" was derived from the Old Tongue. I've heard the analogy used of a well-educated, highly intelligent citizen of ancient Rome needing to learn modern Italian. It would hardly be a slam-dunk, but he or she would have the roots of the language already. In the case of the Forsaken, the task is actually easier than that of the ancient Roman, since modern Italian is a more complex language than Latin, while the Old Tongue, as I have said time and again, is more complex and nuanced than the language of "today."

ramsin
01-17-2012, 11:03 AM
Sorry if this has been asked and answered before, but on a re-read of ToM - Mat mentions he is married in the "juvenile" letter to Elayne and when Thom recites their adventure from Ebou Dar (spelling??) Mat skims the part where Tuon completes the marriage. So the question is, does Elayne know Mat is married to the Seanchan Empress?

Sorry - am paraphrasing as I don't have the books before me.

GonzoTheGreat
01-17-2012, 11:27 AM
Sorry if this has been asked and answered before, but on a re-read of ToM - Mat mentions he is married in the "juvenile" letter to Elayne and when Thom recites their adventure from Ebou Dar (spelling??) Mat skims the part where Tuon completes the marriage. So the question is, does Elayne know Mat is married to the Seanchan Empress?

Sorry - am paraphrasing as I don't have the books before me.
Depends on how many expirations he managed to smuggle in:
"Excellent." She grimaced. "I'm afraid I have an appointment with my midwife now, but I will see you at dinner. I haven't yet asked what Matrim meant by calling himself a married man in his letter. I expect a full report! No expurgations!" She eyed Mat, smiling slyly. "Expurgation means 'parts cut out,' Mat. In case you weren't bloody aware."

He put his hat on. "I knew that." What had that word been again? Expirations? Light, why had he mentioned his marriage in that letter? He had hoped it would make Elayne curious enough to see him.
As far as I know, that dinner appointment went ahead.

Terez
01-17-2012, 11:48 AM
Sorry if this has been asked and answered before, but on a re-read of ToM - Mat mentions he is married in the "juvenile" letter to Elayne and when Thom recites their adventure from Ebou Dar (spelling??) Mat skims the part where Tuon completes the marriage. So the question is, does Elayne know Mat is married to the Seanchan Empress?

Sorry - am paraphrasing as I don't have the books before me.Nope. He told Perrin and Moiraine, but not Elayne.

fdsaf3
01-18-2012, 10:16 AM
Another question...

We know that Shadowspawn can't pass through Gateways and come out alive (see: battle at the Manor in Knife of Dreams, Deathgates, etc.)

BUT! There's a quote in the database that says gholam can indeed Travel/pass through a gateway and come out alive:

We discussed the gholam, if someone had pushed it through a gateway, would it have just died? Brandon said that gholam CAN go THROUGH gateways (from one place to another). He mentioned that this was the first time he had shared this information. Gholam are Shadowspawn of a more perfected kind. It would have been way too easy to kill if you just needed to shove it through a gateway (to another place). However, falling through the Skimming gateway for a few minutes did kill the gholam and it is really dead and it's not going to show up again.

Hm. Interesting!

We also know that the reason Shadowspawn can't pass through a gateway is because they are artificial constructs.

Q: Why can't Shadowspawn pass through gateways?
RJ: It's because they're artificial constructs. They can't tolerate the passage.

Ok. This is all old news, right?

Here's my question: could someone like Moridin make a gateway out of the True Power and pass Shadowspawn (trollocs, fades, etc.) through them successfully?

The reason I'm asking is because of the inherent differences between creating a gateway with the OP versus the TP. I'm guessing the answer is no, but I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts on this.

Terez
01-18-2012, 01:11 PM
You can't even make a gateway with the True Power. You make that shimmery thing, which Brandon has interpreted to be somewhat like a gateway...but keep in mind that RJ only introduced this tidbit to explain why the Forsaken weren't using gateways to transport Shadowspawn. If you could do so with the True Power, then it wouldn't be a very good reason why the Forsaken couldn't do it, especially while Ishamael was still alive.

fdsaf3
01-18-2012, 07:46 PM
Ack, my lack of precise wording has trapped me. Drat.

You can Travel using the True Power. I guess my question boils down to "due to the inherent differences in Traveling using the TP versus the OP, what would happen to shadowspawn if they attempted to Travel via the TP".

That's the crux of what I'm trying to get at. If I understand the metaphysics of Traveling, the TP rends a hole in the Pattern, allowing one to temporarily step outside of it.

There might be no meat on this bone. It's just idle thoughts I have anyway.

Also, would an Aes Sedai who was born in a stedding and never left it experience a prolonged life?

edit: based on this quote:

Jordan: No, not unless they actually begin to channel. Slowing is a function of actually channeling.

Conversely, what if (I know this is a stupid example) a channeler born with innate ability was shielded from the moment of their birth to the moment of their death. Would they experience a lengthened lifespan?

The quote above seems pretty conclusive. I'm just looking for absolute confirmation.

Terez
01-18-2012, 07:58 PM
Ack, my lack of precise wording has trapped me. Drat.

You can Travel using the True Power. I guess my question boils down to "due to the inherent differences in Traveling using the TP versus the OP, what would happen to shadowspawn if they attempted to Travel via the TP".We don't know, nor do we have any way of knowing.

Conversely, what if (I know this is a stupid example) a channeler born with innate ability was shielded from the moment of their birth to the moment of their death. Would they experience a lengthened lifespan?INTERVIEW:Oct 28th, 2005KOD Signing Report - Frenzy (http://theoryland.yuku.com/reply/201146/t/San-Jose-Signing.html#reply-201146)


FRENZY
But what I DID get to ask, was this: Can a person who hasn't actively channeled yet be severed or stilled?


ROBERT JORDAN
Jordan's response (paraphrased) "No, you have to have something to take away something, so a person has to have an active connection to the Source to be able to have it cut."

GonzoTheGreat
01-19-2012, 04:38 AM
FRENZY
But what I DID get to ask, was this: Can a person who hasn't actively channeled yet be severed or stilled?

ROBERT JORDAN
Jordan's response (paraphrased) "No, you have to have something to take away something, so a person has to have an active connection to the Source to be able to have it cut."
So, does that mean that it isn't possible to sever someone in a Stedding, if you're channeling with a well, but the target doesn't have one?
That person would then not have an active connection at that moment, after all, as the OP can not be reached from inside a Stedding.

fionwe1987
01-19-2012, 08:19 AM
So, does that mean that it isn't possible to sever someone in a Stedding, if you're channeling with a well, but the target doesn't have one?
That person would then not have an active connection at that moment, after all, as the OP can not be reached from inside a Stedding.
They would still have an active connection that is blocked.

By the way, does a well even work in a stedding?

Zombie Sammael
01-19-2012, 08:49 AM
They would still have an active connection that is blocked.

By the way, does a well even work in a stedding?

That is an interesting question. For a long while, we thought that might have been the means by which Verin delved in a stedding in TGH, but it's since been confirmed that she didn't actually use the power:



I asked Jordan if you need to channel to detect loss of soul, and he said no, it was obvious from touch. So Verin doesn't have a Well, or at least didn't use it.

I believe that being in a stedding is not like being shielded; when shielded one can still sense the True Source, whereas in a stedding one cannot even sense it. However, regarding the use of a well whilst shielded:

Q: Can someone channel from a Well while shielded?
RJ: Yes, they could. If they had the Well.

With this in mind, we have to think about the only conceivable reasons for developing something like a Well: to channel in situations where it would not otherwise be possible. I would assume that prior to the War of Power, there was not much risk, provided you were a law-abiding channelling citizen, of being shielded, and therefore the only reason to make a well would be to use it in a stedding, or possibly a vacuole. There would otherwise be little point. After the War of Power started, however, they would be a useful way to evade the danger of being shielded by an enemy channeller. So really, the question is whether or not any Wells were constructed prior to the War of Power. ;)

fionwe1987
01-19-2012, 09:12 AM
That is an interesting question. For a long while, we thought that might have been the means by which Verin delved in a stedding in TGH, but it's since been confirmed that she didn't actually use the power:

I believe that being in a stedding is not like being shielded; when shielded one can still sense the True Source, whereas in a stedding one cannot even sense it. However, regarding the use of a well whilst shielded:

With this in mind, we have to think about the only conceivable reasons for developing something like a Well: to channel in situations where it would not otherwise be possible. I would assume that prior to the War of Power, there was not much risk, provided you were a law-abiding channelling citizen, of being shielded, and therefore the only reason to make a well would be to use it in a stedding, or possibly a vacuole. There would otherwise be little point. After the War of Power started, however, they would be a useful way to evade the danger of being shielded by an enemy channeller. So really, the question is whether or not any Wells were constructed prior to the War of Power. ;)

Rand says Lews Therin wore the first Paralis net ever constructed, and that includes a well. It is implied very strongly that this was a construction of the War of the Power.

Oden
01-19-2012, 09:19 AM
I missed that tidbit about channeling while shielded when I read through most of the IDB. That information could be vital, should Nynaeve ever be shielded again. Is it a requirement that you're feeling the OP to use a well? Can you channel from a well when touching one of Elaine's failed medallions? Think of the consequenses and opportunities this may provide!
This could be big

Zombie Sammael
01-19-2012, 11:46 AM
Rand says Lews Therin wore the first Paralis net ever constructed, and that includes a well. It is implied very strongly that this was a construction of the War of the Power.

Was that in TOM? I dimly recall it, but the quote would be helpful. It would tend to suggest they can't be used in a stedding, therefore.

fionwe1987
01-19-2012, 11:54 AM
Was that in TOM? I dimly recall it, but the quote would be helpful. It would tend to suggest they can't be used in a stedding, therefore.
Here:
Rand smiled. "And you're wearing a full paralis-net in your hair, which includes a Well. I'm certain you keep it full, and that should be enough to create a single gateway."
Cadsuane's face grew expressionless. "I've never heard of a paralis-net."
"Cadsuane Sedai," Rand said softly. "Your net has a few ornaments I don't recognize. I suspect it is a Breaking-era creation. But I was there when the first ones were designed, and I wore the original male version."

Universum
01-24-2012, 12:38 AM
Just a quickie to get things clarified concering Aiel marriage.

Men can have more than one wife. Can women have more than one husband? I can't remember reading something about a woman with more than one husband, but then again, I can't remember ever reading that it wasn't allowed..

fionwe1987
01-24-2012, 12:58 AM
Just a quickie to get things clarified concering Aiel marriage.

Men can have more than one wife. Can women have more than one husband? I can't remember reading something about a woman with more than one husband, but then again, I can't remember ever reading that it wasn't allowed..
It is allowed and it is done, though not shown in story. It is also apparently rarer than multiple wives, because men don't do the brother-bond thing all that often.

Universum
01-24-2012, 05:40 AM
It is allowed and it is done, though not shown in story. It is also apparently rarer than multiple wives, because men don't do the brother-bond thing all that often.

Do you know where it is mentioned?

Dajoran
01-24-2012, 06:17 AM
Rand says Lews Therin wore the first Paralis net ever constructed, and that includes a well. It is implied very strongly that this was a construction of the War of the Power.

It really only implies that a Paralis Net was constructed during the War of Power, and that a Well was included in the Paralis Net.

I suppose it depends on what you consider a Paralis Net to be. Is it something that was created to act as a Channeler Utility belt, including portable versions of previously known Ter'angreal to use for the War. Or was it something created as a whole - including the Ter'angreal it supplies.

The Eye of the World was a Well, I know this is a post-War creation. But it puts into practice that there could have been various situations wherein a Well could be used outside of a Stedding or vacole.

Here it is used to house an untainted Saidin. But who knows what other uses a Well could have.

We see references to Wells being half full or full. So they have a limit. Maybe, like cooking, some weaves could have specific measurements for the Power... two cups of flour, a Well of Saidar, some fermented yeast... TADA!!! Cake Ter'angreal!

Zombie Sammael
01-24-2012, 07:04 AM
We see references to Wells being half full or full. So they have a limit. Maybe, like cooking, some weaves could have specific measurements for the Power... two cups of flour, a Well of Saidar, some fermented yeast... TADA!!! Cake Ter'angreal!

Now you want to have your cake ter'angreal and eat it too.

Tomp
01-25-2012, 07:21 AM
I haven't read through all the posts. You have probably answered this already somewhere, but I couldn't find it.

Is there a consensus among the community to what's causing the visions the magnificent trio have of each other when they think of each other?
As when Mat thinks about Rand and he gets a vision of Rand canoodling with Min.

What causes that?

Terez
01-25-2012, 07:32 AM
Ta'veren.

Dajoran
01-25-2012, 08:30 AM
I haven't read through all the posts. You have probably answered this already somewhere, but I couldn't find it.

Is there a consensus among the community to what's causing the visions the magnificent trio have of each other when they think of each other?
As when Mat thinks about Rand and he gets a vision of Rand canoodling with Min.

What causes that?

I don't think there is a common consensus as yet due to lack of evidence - but I take it to be yet another form of bonding due to their Ta'veren nature.

We know that there are various things that can manipulate a persons thread on the pattern from the the weaving of the Age Lace itself right down to the OP.

Through the OP we have the most obvious, or rather, overt method of 'thread manipulation' - balefire.

Next we have bonding - which, for this lifetime at least, links two threads together.

Through the Pattern itself we see thread manipulation, most overtly again due to the nature of Ta'veren.

But we are also shown a form of permanent bond through threads like Birgitte and Gaidal - or even Shivan and Calian.

I'm not suggesting that our interpid three are permanently linked like the above - neither am I suggesting that they share a Warder bond. But they are obviously bonded, this may plainly be due to the fact that they are Ta'veren, and their threads are constantly linked as they move through the pattern to the same goal.

Zombie Sammael
01-25-2012, 09:12 AM
Next we have bonding - which, for this lifetime at least, links two threads together.

Not so sure about this. For one, the bond isn't necessarily permanent, but for another, I'd say Elyas Machera's thread certainly doesn't appear to be linked in any meaningful way to his AS. They don't have a shared destiny or anything like that.

Dajoran
01-25-2012, 09:33 AM
Not so sure about this. For one, the bond isn't necessarily permanent, but for another, I'd say Elyas Machera's thread certainly doesn't appear to be linked in any meaningful way to his AS. They don't have a shared destiny or anything like that.

I didn't mean to insinuate that they are walking the same path, or are linked in anyway fantastical - bad wording on my part I suppose.

What I mean is that your typical Warder bond - is used to link threads, but not at a Pattern level.

It's more of a... say a mass produced jigsaw piece - look at these two bits that fit nicely together... but there are other pieces that would also fit there nicely as well - some of those pieces are even from different jigsaws.

Some pieces even, with force, can be made to fit this piece (I'm looking at you Alanna :mad:)

Whereas a pattern level bond - a lá Birgitte and Gaidal - is for those two (or more) threads only - I don't have a metaphor for that...

...


wait wait!! Like a DISTINCT inner join in SQL...

No... that's terrible... I'll stick with 'it's unique'.

GonzoTheGreat
01-25-2012, 09:35 AM
Maybe quantum entanglement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_entanglement) would work. Of course, it's not like that, but it might be a useful metaphor nonetheless.

Dajoran
01-25-2012, 09:43 AM
Maybe quantum entanglement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_entanglement) would work. Of course, it's not like that, but it might be a useful metaphor nonetheless.

I like it - henceforth Birgitte and Gaidal are known as Alice and Bob.

Green Man 22
01-26-2012, 04:09 PM
Going through a re-read and just posting a couple things that stood out to me in TSR.
TSR, Ch. 34, p. 566 (paperback)
When she saw him, she froze, and there was nothing cool in her blue-green eyes. Her gaze made the sun seem cold; he should have been burned to ash on the spot.

Why did Aviendha look at him like this, and why did she seem to hate him from this point until she hooked up with him in the igloo?

Rand surmises that she saw the past of the Aiel and heard the prophecy that he would destroy them, but we know from TOM that she didn't go through the glass columns, only through the rings, so why did she have this reaction? Any ideas on the seeming disconnect?

TSR, Ch. 35,p. 571 (paperback)
"I won't tell," Egwene said slowly. Wise Ones and Windfinders. Women able to channel among both, and none who had taken the Three Oaths, bound by the Oath Rod. The Oaths were supposed to make people trust Aes Sedai, or at least not fear their power, but Aes Sedai still had to move in secret as often as not. Wise Ones--and Windfinders, she was willing to wager--had honored places in their society. Without being bound to supposedly make them safe. It was something to think on.

Why didn't she think about this anymore, especially when she set about to make the agreement between the channelers? Her instincts told her that something was wrong with the Three Oaths and the Oath Rod (we later found out that the Oath Rod used on criminals to bind them), yet she never really revisits this thought. Why not?

Zombie Sammael
01-26-2012, 04:19 PM
Going through a re-read and just posting a couple things that stood out to me in TSR.


Why did Aviendha look at him like this, and why did she seem to hate him from this point until she hooked up with him in the igloo?

Rand surmises that she saw the past of the Aiel and heard the prophecy that he would destroy them, but we know from TOM that she didn't go through the glass columns, only through the rings, so why did she have this reaction? Any ideas on the seeming disconnect?



Why didn't she think about this anymore, especially when she set about to make the agreement between the channelers? Her instincts told her that something was wrong with the Three Oaths and the Oath Rod (we later found out that the Oath Rod used on criminals to bind them), yet she never really revisits this thought. Why not?

1. The Rhuidean rings show possible futures. She saw Rand in that future and obviously that she would be with him. This made her resentful, similar to Min, until they actually hooked up.

2. For a long time, one theory was that this was the work of Aran'gar performing some manner of compulsion on Egwene. This idea seems to have fallen by the wayside in more recent times, as there is no clear advantage to the Shadow of the oaths and Egwene doesn't appear to be under compulsion.

Green Man 22
01-26-2012, 04:27 PM
1. The Rhuidean rings show possible futures. She saw Rand in that future and obviously that she would be with him. This made her resentful, similar to Min, until they actually hooked up.

I guess that makes sense, although Min seemed more confused than hateful towards Rand. She didn't understand why it would be him. She claimed to resent it (to Siuan), but she didn't really seem to mean it.

On the other hand, Aviendha goes on and on about hating him and hating him more than anyone else, which seems a bit ridiculous if it was just because she saw they would end up together.

Zombie Sammael
01-26-2012, 04:31 PM
I guess that makes sense, although Min seemed more confused than hateful towards Rand. She didn't understand why it would be him. She claimed to resent it (to Siuan), but she didn't really seem to mean it.

On the other hand, Aviendha goes on and on about hating him and hating him more than anyone else, which seems a bit ridiculous if it was just because she saw they would end up together.

She is not the first woman to ever behave like that, nor is it irrational. Imagine you knew, quite apart from personal taste, that you would fall in love with someone, and when you met them, they were irrational, impatient, and had no respect for your culture. You'd feel resentful. The difference between her and Min is simply one of personalities.

Weird Harold
01-26-2012, 04:32 PM
Why did Aviendha look at him like this, and why did she seem to hate him from this point until she hooked up with him in the igloo?

Rand surmises that she saw the past of the Aiel and heard the prophecy that he would destroy them, but we know from TOM that she didn't go through the glass columns, only through the rings, so why did she have this reaction? Any ideas on the seeming disconnect?

Aviendha went through a period where she tried to deny the future she saw in the rings ter'angreal because she thought Elayne had a prior claim and wouldn't be inclined to share. She also blamed Rand for being "unfaithful" to Elayne in the futures she saw in the ter'angreal.

In short, she suffered from a typical teen-age girl's angst about relationships

Cortar
01-26-2012, 04:47 PM
Why didn't she think about this anymore, especially when she set about to make the agreement between the channelers? Her instincts told her that something was wrong with the Three Oaths and the Oath Rod (we later found out that the Oath Rod used on criminals to bind them), yet she never really revisits this thought. Why not?

BECAUSE EGWENE IS STUPID AND NEEDS TO DIE... jkjk

Probably because it was just a passing thought. Later on in the series she reallly becomes enamored with the White Tower and everything about it like the traditions and the structures... thus including the 3 Oaths.

Terez
01-26-2012, 05:41 PM
For a long time, one theory was that this was the work of Aran'gar performing some manner of compulsion on Egwene. This idea seems to have fallen by the wayside in more recent times, as there is no clear advantage to the Shadow of the oaths and Egwene doesn't appear to be under compulsion.It's fallen by the wayside because Maria said Aran'gar had nothing to do with Egwene's decision about the Oaths.

Tomp
01-26-2012, 09:55 PM
Why did Aviendha look at him like this, and why did she seem to hate him from this point until she hooked up with him in the igloo?

Rand surmises that she saw the past of the Aiel and heard the prophecy that he would destroy them, but we know from TOM that she didn't go through the glass columns, only through the rings, so why did she have this reaction? Any ideas on the seeming disconnect?


I have always thought that those resentful glares was because she had sworn to "protect" him from other women on behalf of Elayne. She saw in the rings that she would fall in love with him. This meant she would betray Elayne and have very strong toh towards Elayne. She saw Rand as the source of this and resented him for it.

Davian93
01-26-2012, 09:57 PM
It's fallen by the wayside because Maria said Aran'gar had nothing to do with Egwene's decision about the Oaths.

I think it was 95% Siuan's influence on her...something Egwene has failed to realize isn't always a good thing.

Siuan was violently against dropping them or even modifying them the one time it is discussed on screen.

Oden
01-27-2012, 04:25 PM
Slayer says that you can heal in T'A'R but not in the way Perrin tries (IIRC). Has anyone asked BS what Slayer means?

greatwolf
01-28-2012, 03:14 PM
Is it possible to have a thread or sticky for interview quotes? Terez's compilation is fabulous, but it isn't easy to keep up to date once you've read it. Thoughts?

Terez
01-28-2012, 03:21 PM
Be patient; the new interview database is almost done, and then it will be easy to keep up with because the reports are listed reverse-chronologically. I don't believe anyone has asked Brandon about this.

HeChengWei
02-02-2012, 02:31 PM
Does anyone know a rough estimate of the population of the World of the Wheel of Time (excluding the Seanchan and the Shara)?

I think I read somewhere that the Aiel had about 100k in each clan so that puts them around 1 million. But I'm at a loss as to how many people populate the rest of the world.

Thanks,

Terez
02-02-2012, 11:04 PM
Does anyone know a rough estimate of the population of the World of the Wheel of Time (excluding the Seanchan and the Shara)?

I think I read somewhere that the Aiel had about 100k in each clan so that puts them around 1 million. But I'm at a loss as to how many people populate the rest of the world.

Thanks,Brandon said he has 'estimates' but he did not tell us what those estimates were. This is the best we have gotten, from RJ:

Someone asked about the populations of the major cities. After a little clarification, he basically said that Tar Valon has a population of about 700,000 and the several of the other cities have around 500,000. He gave a number for the total population of Andor, but I'm not sure of the number, and hope that made it to the tape I'm going to analyze tomorrow.

Terez
02-03-2012, 01:31 AM
By the way, I should have clarified that the Aiel have about 100,000 algai'd'siswai in each clan, but there are many more taking the others into account. Only the Shaido brought every man, woman, child and goat across the Dragonwall. With the Mura'din, that brought them to about a half a million. If I remember correctly. I think that information can be found from the Battle of Cairhien and from Faile's perspective inside the Malden camp.

Dajoran
02-03-2012, 11:05 AM
Is there anything that quantifies the true nature of a Stedding. That is, is it discussed anywhere how these places were created - are they a piece of the Ogier homeworld that crossed over when they did, or is it something created due to their unique talents - or even the One Power?

Terez
02-03-2012, 11:12 AM
Is there anything that quantifies the true nature of a Stedding. That is, is it discussed anywhere how these places were created - are they a piece of the Ogier homeworld that crossed over when they did, or is it something created due to their unique talents - or even the One Power?Most likely they are areas that follow the laws of physics on the Ogier world, areas that came with the Ogier. When they leave, supposedly the stedding will return to normal. I doubt it will seriously affect the vegetation or anything, though. The differences are subtle. But we do know they are anchored to the land in some way, since they were moved around by the Breaking.

Dajoran
02-03-2012, 11:17 AM
Most likely they are areas that follow the laws of physics on the Ogier world, areas that came with the Ogier. When they leave, supposedly the stedding will return to normal. I doubt it will seriously affect the vegetation or anything, though. The differences are subtle. But we do know they are anchored to the land in some way, since they were moved around by the Breaking.

Cheers Terez.

I was just thinking about a possible idea of weaponizing the Stedding in TG. :D

Imagine if you will, a bunch of dreadlords advancing on a mainly one powerless force. Bam - Ogier use the BoT and drop a Stedding on the area... and the hunters become the hunted.

HeChengWei
02-03-2012, 01:56 PM
By the way, I should have clarified that the Aiel have about 100,000 algai'd'siswai in each clan, but there are many more taking the others into account. Only the Shaido brought every man, woman, child and goat across the Dragonwall. With the Mura'din, that brought them to about a half a million. If I remember correctly. I think that information can be found from the Battle of Cairhien and from Faile's perspective inside the Malden camp.

Okay, so this kind of brings me to a still cooking theory I have. (maybe someone has already thought of it though) Do you see any holes in my reasoning?

We don't know much about the red veiled Aiel in the last book, but I have a theory about what they are. It could be possible that these red veiled Aiel are male channelers. Everytime an Aiel man finds out he can channel he runs into the blight and fights trollocs till he dies. What if instead of fighting he gets captured and then the DO/Ishamael somehow twisted these captured-male-one-power-channeling-Aiel into these red veiled Aiel with point teeth? Thus making an army of warrior dreadlords that kill with their veils down?

At first I wasn't sure of how likely this was, but I think it could be likely. I thought that there wouldn't be enough Aiel male channelers to gather much of an army anyways but the population talked about above seems to make more sense.

If we can assume that with 700k in Tar Valon and 500k in some other major cities and maybe more in Andor that there is about 5 - 6 million people in the world. Then in the Aiel Waste with about 500k per clan we have about the same amount of people--about 6 million. Cadsuane-Sedai has been known of just her own accord to have caught several dozen male channelers in the 300ish years she's been around, let alone how many she hasn't caught. Also the Red Ajah have probably also captured quite a few as well.

So that would leave me to give a optimistic guess that the wheel is churning out about 60 - 100 male channelers in the world every 100 years or so. If the population density is about the same in the Aiel waste then why wouldn't they get about the same amount of male channelers that the rest of the world would get?

Once the Aiel channeler is caught and then twisted he would then probably be taught to channel and be sheileded from the DO's taint. Channelers live for hundreds of years, thus meaning that if my theory is correct there could possibly be an army of red veiled Aiel men that can channel of up to 500 men strong.

We haven't heard anything to confirm this (Brandon is pretty silent on this topic), but in my mind this could be plausible.

Terez
02-03-2012, 02:40 PM
Okay, so this kind of brings me to a still cooking theory I have. (maybe someone has already thought of it though) Do you see any holes in my reasoning?

We don't know much about the red veiled Aiel in the last book, but I have a theory about what they are. It could be possible that these red veiled Aiel are male channelers. Everytime an Aiel man finds out he can channel he runs into the blight and fights trollocs till he dies. What if instead of fighting he gets captured and then the DO/Ishamael somehow twisted these captured-male-one-power-channeling-Aiel into these red veiled Aiel with point teeth? Thus making an army of warrior dreadlords that kill with their veils down?This has been the running theory since TOM came out, though there are a few issues with it that I addressed in the FAQ linked in my sig. To sum up, they have black eyes, and if they can channel, why kill with a knife? Maybe it's just for fun. I'm not trying to argue it either way, really...just saying that's why a lot of people object to the theory.

If we can assume that with 700k in Tar Valon and 500k in some other major cities and maybe more in Andor that there is about 5 - 6 million people in the world. Then in the Aiel Waste with about 500k per clan we have about the same amount of people--about 6 million. Cadsuane-Sedai has been known of just her own accord to have caught several dozen male channelers in the 300ish years she's been around, let alone how many she hasn't caught. Also the Red Ajah have probably also captured quite a few as well.Well, technically Elaida said "In ten years, we have found only six men with the ability. Just twenty-four in the last twenty years. And you know how the land has been scoured." They only find men with the spark, and Aiel only send men off if they spark. One in four of those will die from the wilder sickness if they don't make it to the Blight in time to be trained (assuming there is someone there to train them). And Cadsuane's number is estimated to be about 20, not several dozen. (Over the course of nearly 300 years.)

HeChengWei
02-03-2012, 03:02 PM
This has been the running theory since TOM came out, though there are a few issues with it that I addressed in the FAQ linked in my sig. To sum up, they have black eyes, and if they can channel, why kill with a knife? Maybe it's just for fun. I'm not trying to argue it either way, really...just saying that's why a lot of people object to the theory.

That is a good point, maybe the DO wants channelers that are good in hand to hand combat in case they get shielded? Or more plausible: Brandon, on the virtue of plot device, doesn't want to reveal their ability to channel yet.


Well, technically Elaida said "In ten years, we have found only six men with the ability. Just twenty-four in the last twenty years. And you know how the land has been scoured." They only find men with the spark, and Aiel only send men off if they spark. One in four of those will die from the wilder sickness if they don't make it to the Blight in time to be trained (assuming there is someone there to train them). And Cadsuane's number is estimated to be about 20, not several dozen. (Over the course of nearly 300 years.)


So it still seems about 1 a year, so assuming the same rates in the Waste there would be about 100 Aiel in the last 100 years with the spark and about 25 of them would have lived enough to be captured and trained. That size of an evil task force seems to be more likely to me actually, 500 would be too huge and they could have devastated the world long before now.

Terez
02-03-2012, 03:04 PM
Yeah, it might be a bit more than a quarter since they might make it in time to get trained.

Tomp
02-03-2012, 05:01 PM
Since the men haven't taken any oaths they will live longer than the AS. I don't know how long men channelers usually live though.

Tree Brother
02-03-2012, 05:17 PM
Since the men haven't taken any oaths they will live longer than the AS. I don't know how long men channelers usually live though.

Are you suggesting they would be protected from the taint?

Tomp
02-03-2012, 05:24 PM
Are you suggesting they would be protected from the taint?

I thought it was suggested that these men were tied to the DO in some way and protected from the taint. Otherwise I understand and agree with your argument completely.

fionwe1987
02-03-2012, 07:04 PM
Its also worth noting that Elaida's numbers are only the "official" record. In truth, many more men were found and killed on the spot, like Owyn, and probably Grady's dad.

Weird Harold
02-03-2012, 09:04 PM
Its also worth noting that Elaida's numbers are only the "official" record. In truth, many more men were found and killed on the spot, like Owyn, and probably Grady's dad.

Actually, Elaida included those off-the-record gentlings; Alviarin reminded her that the numbers cited were dangerous numbers to admit knowing.

ETA:

"Four hundred rabble, Alviarin." She felt calmer already, for Alviarin’s mouth had thinned. Just a fraction, but she savored any crack in the woman’s façade. "If there are that many. Only a fool could believe that more than one or two can channel. At most! In ten years, we have found only six men with the ability. Just twenty-four in the last twenty years. And you know how the land has been scoured. As for Taim... " The name burned her mouth; the only false Dragon ever to escape being gentled once in the hands of Aes Sedai. Not a thing she wanted in the Chronicles under her reign, certainly not until she decided how it should be recorded. At present the Chronicles told nothing after his capture.


She stroked her thumb along the fish’s scales. "He is dead, Alviarin, else we would have heard from him long since. And not serving al’Thor. Can you think he went from claiming to be the Dragon Reborn to serving the Dragon Reborn? Can you think he could be in Caemlyn without Davram Bashere at least trying to kill him?" Her thumb moved faster on the ivory fish as she reminded herself that the Marshal-General of Saldaea was in Caemlyn taking orders from al’Thor. What was Tenobia playing at? Elaida held it all inside, though, presenting a face as calm as one of her carvings.


"Twenty-four is a dangerous number to speak aloud," Alviarin said with an ominous quiet, "as dangerous as two thousand. The Chronicles record only sixteen. The last thing needed now is for those years to rear up again. Or for sisters who know only what they were told to learn the truth. Even those you brought back hold their silence."


Elaida put on a bemused look. So far as she knew, Alviarin had learned the truth of those years only on being raised Keeper, but her own knowledge was more personal. Not that Alviarin could be aware of that. Not for certain, anyway. "Daughter, whatever comes out, I have no fear. Who is going to impose a penance on me, and on what charge?" That skirted truth nicely, but apparently it impressed the other woman not at all.

fionwe1987
02-04-2012, 02:24 AM
Actually, Elaida included those off-the-record gentlings; Alviarin reminded her that the numbers cited were dangerous numbers to admit knowing.

ETA:
Hmmm.. I guess I misread that. So the 2000 refer to the "lucky" men who were killed?

GonzoTheGreat
02-04-2012, 03:28 AM
One in four of those will die from the wilder sickness if they don't make it to the Blight in time to be trained (assuming there is someone there to train them).
Nitpick: one in four would survive, three out of four would die.

"Those were only reactions," Moiraine said patiently. "Each time, the reaction comes closer to the actual touching of the Source, until the two happen almost together. After that there are no more reactions that can be seen, but it is as if a clock has begun ticking. A year. Two years. I know one woman who lasted five years. Of four who have the inborn ability that you and Egwene have, three die if we do not find them and train them. It is not as horrible a death as the men die, but neither is it pretty, if any death can be called so. Convulsions. Screaming. It takes days, and once it begins there is nothing that can be done to stop it, not by all the Aes Sedai in Tar Valon together."

Terez
02-04-2012, 05:41 AM
Yup, that's what I meant, as I hope was made clear by my other statements.

Weird Harold
02-04-2012, 10:30 AM
Hmmm.. I guess I misread that. So the 2000 refer to the "lucky" men who were killed?

Probably. Nothing is ever spelled out explicitly about the "vileness," so Alviarin's cryptic mention is the only hint we get of hard numbers.

greatwolf
02-05-2012, 07:35 AM
By the way, I should have clarified that the Aiel have about 100,000 algai'd'siswai in each clan, but there are many more taking the others into account. Only the Shaido brought every man, woman, child and goat across the Dragonwall. With the Mura'din, that brought them to about a half a million. If I remember correctly. I think that information can be found from the Battle of Cairhien and from Faile's perspective inside the Malden camp.

How'd you come about that? The best comparism I know of is this:

on the parchments. In spite of himself, he winced. If the Aiel scouts could count, Couladin had nearly
one hundred and sixty thousand spears-Shaido and those who had supposedly gone to join their societies among
the Shaido. A hard nut to crack, and prickly. This side of the Spine of the World had not seen an army like that
since Artur Hawkwing’s time.
The second map showed the’ other clans that had crossed the Dragonwall. All had now, in one force ‘or
another, strung out according to when they had left the Jangai and spread apart, but too close to here for
comfort. The Shiande, the Codarra, the Daryne, and the Miagoma. Between them, they apparently had at least
as many spears as Couladin; they had not left many behind, if that was true. “The seven clans with Rand almost
doubled that, easily enough to face Couladin or the four clans. Either or. Not both, not at once. But both at once
might be what Rand had to fight.
What the Aiel called the bleakness had to be affecting those clans too-every day still men tossed down
their weapons and vanished-but only a fool would think it lessened their numbers any more than it did Rand’s.
And there was always the possibility that some of those were going to Couladin. The Aiel did not speak of it
very much or very freely, and masked the idea behind talk of joining societies, but even now, men and Maidens
decided they could not accept Rand or what he had told them of themselves. Every morning some were missing,
and not all left their spears behind.


Later Perrin tells us the shaido at Malden numbered about 100k. But all are estimates. We don't know how many they left behind to guard their holds and how many left each clan due to the "bleakness".

Lupusdeusest
02-05-2012, 03:51 PM
I'm looking to compile a study of unnatural equine endurance in WoT. I know most of TEoTW comes under this heading, but what are some other great examples?

missbee
02-06-2012, 06:25 AM
I'm looking to compile a study of unnatural equine endurance in WoT. I know most of TEoTW comes under this heading, but what are some other great examples?

How about the horse that has to carry Loial - sounds like a feat of unnatural equine endurance to me :p

Seriously though, there are a few details in the series that seem to use poetic licence (supernaturally fast milliners and tailors for example). That is why I have happily ignored the fact that most of the series seems to get by without a change of horses (with a few notable exceptions)
Take Mandarb for example (in TOM). At the begining, when they are traveling alone, they go for stretches at a time where there is no vegetation, so they must be carrying food and fodder and maybe even water. And the trip is 100 days long, with a battle at the end.
Or is it examples of suspected OP 'help' that you're after?

Cortar
02-08-2012, 06:40 PM
Why can 13 women (of any power) linked be able to easily shield even the strongest man possible, but not so if he is weilding an angreal or sa'angreal

Source:
Leth Filorn on Twitter - 13 August 2010 7:01 pm
Could thirteen Aes Sedai linked shield Rand while he was channeling using Callandor. What about with Choedan Kal at full power?
Brandon - 8:07 pm
I think I'm going to MAFO those. (Which means email me, say I said I'd ask Maria, and we'll add them to her list.)
8:08 pm
I'm pretty sure of the answer*, but I don't want to take the time to sort though the notes and look it up for certain while editing.

*Probably not just no, but hell no.

I was under the assumption that an angreal just adds power to the user, so then why does it allow a man or woman to break the [13 women can shield anyone] rule? Does this mean its not actually a real RULE and instead 13 women linked just happens to be able to overpower anyone, but if they were weak enough maybe they actually COULDNT overpower someone like Rand?

Terez
02-08-2012, 06:46 PM
Does this mean its not actually a real RULE and instead 13 women linked just happens to be able to overpower anyone, but if they were weak enough maybe they actually COULDNT overpower someone like Rand?Yes to the first part, no to the second. In other words, Asmodean knew the threshold for acceptance in the Tower, and understood that the women in the full circle would have to be much weaker than that to fail to hold even the strongest possible man. It's a known quantity. But the angreal would take the man well beyond that strength and allow him to overpower a full female circle. (Especially if it's Rand, who is as strong as it is possible for a man to be, presumably.)

Cortar
02-08-2012, 06:50 PM
Yes to the first part, no to the second. In other words, Asmodean knew the threshold for acceptance in the Tower, and understood that the women in the full circle would have to be much weaker than that to fail to hold even the strongest possible man. It's a known quantity. But the angreal would take the man well beyond that strength and allow him to overpower a full female circle. (Especially if it's Rand, who is as strong as it is possible for a man to be, presumably.)

Okay, that makes sense.

One more, I couldn't find anything in the interview database but maybe I wasn't looking in the right place.

How close do you have to be to an angreal to use it? I am pretty sure you don't actually have to be touching it... right? (doesn't Rand in TSR use his when it is in his pocket while fighting Amosdean?)

But this also begs the question, could you sense someone else has an angreal in this pocket/whatever and use it if you are close enough to them?

GonzoTheGreat
02-09-2012, 04:39 AM
I think that the precise distance is not clear, and would depend on the nature of the angreal/sa'angreal.
But in TGH, Rand seems to be capable of channeling through the Choedan Kal from a distance of at least 500 paces (half the width of the hole dug in the ground where the thing was).

However, when Rand and Asmodean fight for control of it, touching the ter'angreal seems to be necessary for being on an equal footing with someone else touching it. And, similarly, when Moiraine attacks Lanfear, she grabs the angreal in order to wrest control of it away from the Forsaken.
So I would say that whoever is closer to such a thing would have a huge advantage.

Tomp
02-14-2012, 09:10 AM
I've been thinking about this for a while and it may have been answered already.

Is the only purpose of the wheel of time to imprison the D.O.?

Would there be no world if the D.O. didn't exist?

In other words the world i WoT exist only to hold the anti-creator locked up.

If our protagonists succeeded in destroying Shai'tan would the world end as well?

Zombie Sammael
02-14-2012, 09:20 AM
I've been thinking about this for a while and it may have been answered already.

Is the only purpose of the wheel of time to imprison the D.O.?

Would there be no world if the D.O. didn't exist?

In other words the world i WoT exist only to hold the anti-creator locked up.

If our protagonists succeeded in destroying Shai'tan would the world end as well?

Only the Creator can know the purpose of his creation. Surely, it imprisons the Dark One, but it also gives life to thousands upon thousands of souls. Who can say what the true purpose is?

IRL, of course, the Creator created the world of WOT in order to sell fantasy novels and make money.

Davian93
02-17-2012, 09:15 AM
In case you wonder where the Oaths, Circles, Black Ajah posts went, I moved them to their own thread.

Enjoy!

Verin Mathwin
02-18-2012, 04:17 AM
Are there any accounts in the books of weird occurrences of destruction in the Two Rivers? With as many people that can channel coming from there one would have to think that there have been quite a few men from there that have gone mad and destroyed everything around them. I would think that it would kinda be a big deal, and with as much channeling potential there is in the Two Rivers and the strength the channelers have there the men would have destroyed the whole place long ago.

GonzoTheGreat
02-18-2012, 04:36 AM
Well, the people over there did seem a bit overly sensitive to channeling, so it may indeed have been a problem.

Compare Mat's reaction upon learning that Rand could channel ("I want to be far away from you") to Juilin's reaction upon thinking that Mat could channel ("what have I gotten myself into now").

fireyhand
03-08-2012, 06:38 PM
ok while this may be answered somewhere else (and if you know where plz feel free to redirect me) i kinda need help with an argument i'm having

basically what i need to know is, is there and instance where LTT tells rand to do something and he goes i can't do it? or something along those lines.

i know there was a point where LTT takes the power to do something and if you could give me a reference for that that would also be very helpful thanx.

and if ur interested i'll email you my argument just send me a message

(as you can probably tell im trying to persuade my friend that LTT is not just rands memories but a manifestation of the soul)

finnssss
03-08-2012, 08:38 PM
ok while this may be answered somewhere else (and if you know where plz feel free to redirect me) i kinda need help with an argument i'm having

basically what i need to know is, is there and instance where LTT tells rand to do something and he goes i can't do it? or something along those lines.

i know there was a point where LTT takes the power to do something and if you could give me a reference for that that would also be very helpful thanx.

and if ur interested i'll email you my argument just send me a message

(as you can probably tell im trying to persuade my friend that LTT is not just rands memories but a manifestation of the soul)


In tFoH, down at the docks during his fight with Lanfear, LTT tries to "tell" Rand how to beat her but he refuses to act on it.


tFoH chapter 52 "Choices"

Terez
03-09-2012, 07:02 AM
(as you can probably tell im trying to persuade my friend that LTT is not just rands memories but a manifestation of the soul)
You should probably listen to your friend.

greatwolf
03-09-2012, 03:13 PM
basically what i need to know is, is there and instance where LTT tells rand to do something and he goes i can't do it? or something along those lines.

Well, in KoD LTT tries to explain taxes to Rand, a twenty year old sheep farmer. Needless to say, he was quite unsuccessful.

LTT told Rand to break the seals as of LoC, but he seems to have just figured out in ToM that he has to do it. Of course, he hasn't apologized for calling the guy a madman then.

Grig
03-09-2012, 03:21 PM
i know there was a point where LTT takes the power to do something and if you could give me a reference for that that would also be very helpful thanx.

Chapter 19 of KoD, during the assault on Lord Algarin's manor.

But do keep in mind that as this is a character POV, it does not imply what you might think it is (that LTT in Rand's head is a "whole different manifestation/incarnation of the Dragon Soul"). That's just what Rand thinks he is. There are plenty of documented cases of people who think someone else is operating their body, but that doesn't mean that there actually is a different person/soul/homunculus in their brain that was actually performing said bodily operations.

frenchie
03-09-2012, 06:49 PM
I've been wondering this week, do we have enough info to locate Merrilor on the map?

Terez
03-09-2012, 08:06 PM
I've been wondering this week, do we have enough info to locate Merrilor on the map?
We appear to have contradicting locations. It's either 'just north' of Tar Valon, or near the border of Shienar.

frenchie
03-09-2012, 08:30 PM
Thanks Terez, btw, I'm promoting your Nakomi=Verin theory on Facebook.

Terez
03-09-2012, 08:51 PM
Thanks Terez, btw, I'm promoting your Nakomi=Verin theory on Facebook.
Hopefully you're not promoting it to the We Hate Terez club.

frenchie
03-09-2012, 08:55 PM
I assure you, I'm not(plus the theory is right).

Tomp
03-10-2012, 05:44 AM
Portal stones, doorframes and Verin.

Have there been any instance, that you know of, where Verin has used the information from her experience travelling via portal stones in tGH?
Everyone saw both different pasts and different futures.

Is that what made her give her information to Egwene?

Do you guys think that she at some point passed through the red twisted doorframe in Tear?

The Unreasoner
03-10-2012, 10:24 PM
I always thought Verin's sacrifice was a result of the Portal Stone viewings. It seems like every character was shown an undesirable fate (or every undesirable fate) so that they could choose the right one. In the viewings Ingtar never found salvation, Rand never won, Mat was a traitor...the reality, though...

frenchie
03-11-2012, 01:00 PM
Does anyone have a timeline that's even close to being accurate through ToM?

Terez
03-11-2012, 03:07 PM
Missbee posted one down the page, and there's another linked in my sig. I need to put Missbee's in there as well. Thanks for reminding me.

frenchie
03-11-2012, 03:57 PM
We're the ones who should be thanking you.

Terez
03-11-2012, 04:13 PM
pssh. Missbee's timeline has been added to my reference library. :)

Cortar
03-19-2012, 06:04 AM
Sammael wasn't balefired so why wasn't he brought back to life?

greatwolf
03-19-2012, 06:18 AM
Sammael wasn't balefired so why wasn't he brought back to life?

Who said he wasn't balefried?

Weird Harold
03-19-2012, 06:36 AM
Sammael wasn't balefired so why wasn't he brought back to life?


Sammael was eaten by Mashadar, so his soul was locked up until Mashadar died with Shadar Logoth.

Moridin, aka Nae'blis, helped defeat Sammael so he was not in favor when he died.

Terez
03-19-2012, 09:21 AM
1. Mashadar didn't die with Shadar Logoth.
2. Brandon said Sammael couldn't be transmigrated because his soul was corrupted by Mashadar.

GonzoTheGreat
03-19-2012, 09:45 AM
2. Brandon said Sammael couldn't be transmigrated because his soul was corrupted by Mashadar.
Are you sure?
"Mashadar won’t corrupt Sammael," Birgitte said dryly as the door closed behind the men. "I doubt nine feather dancers with a shipload of brandy could corrupt him. They wouldn’t know where to begin."
Seriously: it would suggest that Padan Fain could be more effective against the DO than one would otherwise expect.

Heinz
03-19-2012, 04:53 PM
So if I had a very random/mixed bag of thoughts/questions that I had jotted down the last time I did a re-read/listen (I just found the note page again), would that go here, or in the re-read section?

Weird Harold
03-19-2012, 05:30 PM
1. Mashadar didn't die with Shadar Logoth.
2. Brandon said Sammael couldn't be transmigrated because his soul was corrupted by Mashadar.
It didn't? Care to explain how it survived?

(the shadow surrounding Padan Fain isn't Mashadar -- or at least not the same 'Mashadar' that ate Sammael.)

GonzoTheGreat
03-20-2012, 04:39 AM
So if I had a very random/mixed bag of thoughts/questions that I had jotted down the last time I did a re-read/listen (I just found the note page again), would that go here, or in the re-read section?
If it is half a dozen or fewer questions, then it should go here, I would say.
If it is a score or more, then you'd better make a separate thread for it. That'll keep this one relatively uncluttered.

If the number of questions is somewhere in between, YOYO.

Terez
03-20-2012, 07:25 AM
IMO it depends more on how much discussion the questions will generate. This thread works better for simple questions; anything that generates a discussion is moved to a new thread anyway.

Davian93
03-20-2012, 08:57 AM
Brandon said Sammael couldn't be transmigrated because his soul was corrupted by Mashadar.


Which is a good an explanation as any as to how "someone...aka Fain" was able to impersonate a Chosen to send the Trollocs after Rand in Tear...

Seth Baker
03-20-2012, 10:37 AM
If it is half a dozen or fewer questions, then it should go here, I would say.
If it is a score or more, then you'd better make a separate thread for it.

What if it's between 6 and 20?

GonzoTheGreat
03-20-2012, 11:23 AM
What if it's between 6 and 20?
For that I gave the answer YOYO, which, as everyone should know, is the abbreviation for You're On Your Own*.

* Or, if you are American, for Your On You're Own. That's like, you know, whatever!

Ishara
03-20-2012, 12:12 PM
Go ahead and post them here and we'll move accordingly! This is likely the best place to start, anyways. ;)

greatwolf
03-21-2012, 07:43 AM
Sammael was eaten by Mashadar, so his soul was locked up until Mashadar died with Shadar Logoth.

Moridin, aka Nae'blis, helped defeat Sammael so he was not in favor when he died.


Moridin thought Sammael was claiming Naeblis, and set him up for the big hammer. But as to Mashadar, we discussed this a few months back. Even if Mashadar got him, there'd have been a body. Unless BF got him.

And Alnna noticed Rand's injury was suddenly not there yet he had not received healing.
ETA: And of course, Mashadar wouldn't "toast" sammael but baleFIRE would. :)

suttree
03-21-2012, 11:19 AM
Moridin thought Sammael was claiming Naeblis, and set him up for the big hammer. But as to Mashadar, we discussed this a few months back. Even if Mashadar got him, there'd have been a body. Unless BF got him.

And Alnna noticed Rand's injury was suddenly not there yet he had not received healing.
ETA: And of course, Mashadar wouldn't "toast" sammael but baleFIRE would. :)

So are you saying despite RJ saying it was Mashadar it was really BF?

Grig
03-21-2012, 12:26 PM
So are you saying despite RJ saying it was Mashadar it was really BF?

Also despite balefire having nothing to do with actual fire, so there would be no toasting (unless it's really a Loaf of Time, made up of many slices of bread). The only thing balefire "burns" is metaphysical "threads".

Terez
03-21-2012, 02:40 PM
So are you saying despite RJ saying it was Mashadar it was really BF?
Slightly saner version of Felix.

Tomp
03-21-2012, 04:03 PM
Do Warders get older than normal men/womwn.

We know that they get added physical abilities and some cognitive abilities as well.

Does the added physique result in a longer life. I don't mean hundred of years as for channelers, but maybe they get 10-15 years extra.

Any thoughts?

Terez
03-21-2012, 04:32 PM
Do Warders get older than normal men/womwn.

We know that they get added physical abilities and some cognitive abilities as well.

Does the added physique result in a longer life. I don't mean hundred of years as for channelers, but maybe they get 10-15 years extra.

Any thoughts?
Only RJ's thoughts (http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=254#10).

Cortar
03-22-2012, 03:11 PM
Okay this is probably a realllllly dumb question...

But how does channelling work while in mixed circles? Specifically, how does a man use Saidar? Can he SEE it? Does he use it like a woman?

Zombie Sammael
03-22-2012, 03:13 PM
Okay this is probably a realllllly dumb question...

But how does channelling work while in mixed circles? Specifically, how does a man use Saidar? Can he SEE it? Does he use it like a woman?

Not a dumb question at all (http://theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=6660&page=3).