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Anaiya Sedai
08-09-2008, 04:09 PM
http://www.ld4all.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucid_dream

sounds almost a bit like T'A'R to me, or what Egwene does. not sure if it works, but it sounds interesting enough.

I've experienced the whole sleep paralisis thing, but I don't know if that has to be related..

Brita
08-09-2008, 04:16 PM
I have lucid dreams from time to time and also have hypnagogic hallucinations. They haven't been bad lately, but I have had some nasty experiences when waking up. And I'm not paralyzed like most people are when they experience those- it's a weird thing, but kinda cool sometimes. Like seeing ghosts, but not.

Terez
08-09-2008, 04:18 PM
I don't remember most of my dreams, sadly. I do have lucid dreams often, though...it's just that the details fade immediately unless I concentrate on the dream as soon as I wake up.

Anaiya Sedai
08-09-2008, 04:33 PM
I'm contemplating to learn how to do it conciously.
as someone who's always had abnormal sleeping habits, I've always been quite interested in dreams, sleep, and all the other stuff.
the dreaming scenes in WoT have always been some of my favourites.

Sinistrum
08-09-2008, 05:10 PM
I've done it before and it can be very badass. The last time I remember doing it was a dream about me walking down an old country road while it was snowing. The kicker was I was seeing everything in black in white movie reel vision, complete with the grainy texture and the flicker of the frames as the reel went by.

As for sleep paralysis, it is a phenomena that has always interested me because of its ties to the paranormal and both modern and historical mythology. I was watching a UFO special on the history channel awhile back and they were describing a study on sleep paralysis that some Japanese researchers did. The Japanese subjects they studied who experienced all had extremely similar experiences. They woke up, couldn't move, had the overwhelming feeling of something else in the room with them, and many even saw that something.

They all described it as a pale apparition of an old women with a malevolent look on her face. The descriptions tended to match the common description of a mononoke, which is a Japanese ghost common in traditional folklore. The really interesting thing is that they expanded their study outside of Japan to other parts of the globe including the U.S. and in each area the description of that something changed. Some saw shadow people, old crones similar to the description of succubi, vampires, and even aliens. The researcher postulated that the hallunications described during his study could be responsible for a great many reported ghost sightings and alien abduction claims as well as the historical folklore associated with of the above creatures.

Anaiya Sedai
08-09-2008, 05:20 PM
yes, once when I woke I thought there was something in the room. It was scary as hell, because I couldn't move or look at it.
weird thing is that the room seemed to be dark until I was actually able to move, and then I realised it was light outside.

did I ever mention I'm scared of the dark? and when I say scared, I mean panic attack in open dark spaces scared. closed rooms are ok, as long as they are light until I close the door. dark rooms with open doors are a big nono.

Sinistrum
08-09-2008, 05:29 PM
Yeah, I've never experienced sleep paralysis myself, but a couple of friends have. They say it's a really scary experience.

Anaiya Sedai
08-09-2008, 05:33 PM
i think scary is the understatement of the year.
feeling completely helpless while having a sense of impending doom isn't exactly what I would like to wake up to every morning.. :S
the more I read about lucid dreaming, the more I realise that I actually use some of the techniques to put myself to sleep sometimes.
it's fascinating.

Sarevok
08-09-2008, 06:11 PM
Hmm, it's weird... I can't recall specific instances of it happening, but the things discussed here seem very familiar... :s

Weird Harold
08-09-2008, 07:20 PM
http://www.ld4all.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucid_dream

sounds almost a bit like T'A'R to me, or what Egwene does. not sure if it works, but it sounds interesting enough.

I've experienced the whole sleep paralisis thing, but I don't know if that has to be related..

The first book on lucid dreams to recognize their scientific potential was Celia Green's 1968 study Lucid Dreams. Reviewing the past literature, as well as new data from subjects of her own, Green analyzed the main characteristics of such dreams and concluded that they were a category of experience quite distinct from ordinary dreams.

I'm sure that Lucid Dreaming (and self-hypnosis and several other medictation techniques related to lucid dreaming) were strong influences -- it's one of those Hippy Era pop culture things that almost everybody in my generation knew about and most experimented with.

The Immortal One
08-10-2008, 06:42 AM
did I ever mention I'm scared of the dark? and when I say scared, I mean panic attack in open dark spaces scared. closed rooms are ok, as long as they are light until I close the door. dark rooms with open doors are a big nono.

Yes, I'm the same. If I have to go into a dark room I always have to turn the light on and glance around before I feel safe enough to turn the light off again.

And for the last six months or so I've locked my bedroom door before going to sleep; and now I feel uncomfortable being in my bedroom without the door locked.


The wiki article on Lucid Dreaming sound very interesting, but the website (LD4all) looks a bit like a scam trying to get money out of people to me - either that or a place for nutters and fanatics to congregate and swap all their wierd fantasies and alien abduction stories.


Lucid Dream Induction Devices (LDID)
Lucid dream induction is possible by the use of a physical device. The general principle works by taking advantage of the natural phenomenon of incorporating external stimuli into one's dreams. Usually a device is worn while sleeping that can detect when the sleeper enters a REM phase and triggers a noise and/or flashing lights with the goal of these stimuli being incorporated into the dreamer's dream. For example flashing lights might be translated to a car's headlights in a dream.
Hehehe! Are we going to call Egwene's twisty ring Ter'Angreal a Lucid Dream Induction Device then??


And when is somebody going to discover the One Power!!

Gilshalos Sedai
08-11-2008, 08:07 AM
Due to intense night terrors as a teenager, I learned to lucid dream both in the waking state and from a dream state. It's handy when the zombies won't stop chasing me. I can easily dream of instant access to a flame thrower or a P-90.

The waking paralysis is something else I've experienced. For instance, I dreamed a cat that had died 7 years ago (at the time) was walking up my bed to get me to pet her. I felt the bed depress with her paws and felt her tongue lick my hand. Now THAT was creepy, especially since I couldn't move, and I knew in the dream that she was dead. I've also felt as if I were leaving or being pulled from my body during one of these.

In order to start trying to consciously control my nightmares, I began by writing down what I remembered of each dream in the morning. Then, I progressed to forcing myself to wake up, fully, after a dream and write down every detail I remembered. Fortunately for me, I tend to dream in narrative form. Then, when I mastered that one, I started trying to become aware of being in a dream when they occurred. That was when I started altering dream states to say, hand myself a weapon to fight off the monsters.

It is not always reliable, however. Despite being able to change just about any dream, there are some that continuously change back to horrific and I wake up in a cold sweat.

Davian93
08-11-2008, 08:15 AM
Once in a blue moon (or every few months) I have a lucid dream and its a wonderful thing. I used to have them more often but I blame a lack of sleep on not having them as often anymore. They are quite enjoyable...like my own personal holodeck.

Gilshalos Sedai
08-11-2008, 08:41 AM
As good as I am at lucid dreaming, I'm not so good that I can dictate the contents of the dream. I also figure I'm having a nightmare for a reason and I may actually need to fight the monsters.

Anaiya Sedai
08-11-2008, 11:11 AM
I read somewhere that you should be able to turn around, face the monsters and ask them why they are chasing you.. now in my case, being chased by wolves and my brother, carrying his own dead body could be a little difficult, but I guess anything is possible in dreams..
I used to lucid dream by accident sometimes. usually when I'd been reading till late at night, and I wanted to keep reading in my sleep. then suddenly I'd realise that I was asleep, and the page would get all blurry or change every time I looked at it.. but I'd never really considered the possibilities of Lucid Dreaming before.

Gilshalos Sedai
08-11-2008, 11:20 AM
Tried that. But Zombies, strangely, don't have the capacity to talk back in my dreams except to moan, "BRAAAAIIINNNNSSSSS."

Crispin's Crispian
08-11-2008, 11:22 AM
I used to have sleep paralysis fairly regularly. Oddly enough, I haven't had one instance of it since my kids were born.

I learned somewhere that the trick is to will yourself back to sleep. It actually works, if you can get over the panic and remember it.

The last event I recall was opening my eyes and seeing my wife lying next to me. She opened her eyes, and I tried to tell her that I couldn't move and needed her to wake me up. I'm sure it sounded like "mmmpph....uuuuhhmmmmph." Anyway, I think the thought of her being right there calmed me down, and I was able to close my eyes and relax back into sleep, at which point I woke up regularly. Hell, that might have been the last time I had one of those.

My most distinct memory is of when I was a kid in my bed at home. I woke up paralyzed, but I thought the room was spinning around my bed. I also thought I could see (out of the corner of my eye) an old grizzled and bearded man sitting next to my bed, grinning evilly. To this day I don't know how much of it was a real dream, or just the hallucinations of sleep paralysis.

I assume all of you have seen Waking Life?

Cary Sedai
08-11-2008, 11:33 AM
I lucid dream sometimes, I read somewhere to help set up dreaming, before you fall asleep you remind yourself to look at your hands once you are dreaming.

I've been able to do that a few times. When you look at your hands, you dream becomes lucid. To keep, being concious of your dreaming state, you look at something else then back at your hands.

It's never lasted too long, and I usually can't get msyelf to move. If I try to walk or anything, normally I feel my body moving and wake up.

I've had bad dreams, I know I'm dreaming and there is something, dark, there that is menacing and all I want to do is get away. I know that the only way to get away is to wake myself up. It is always very hard to wake up, like I'm clawing my way up through water, with something dragging me down. Once I'm awake, I can't move and still feel the presence of whatever it is, and I'm still scared. I'm always very sleepy and feel like something is pulling me back into my dream. I struggle with myself until I'm fully awake and can calm myself down. If I go back to sleep without doing that, it happens all over again.

My last one was Saturday night. I was dreaming I was in my room, in my bed and there was something coming down the hall. As I was clawing my way out of sleep, I kept focusing on my bedroom door, and telling myself I was awake and nothing was down the hall, while at the same time I felt like I was being pulled back into my dream. That is seriously scary. That was the first time, I was dreaming exactly what I was seeing, while awake. I'm usually shaken for a while after that happens.

Last time was a few months ago. I got up and got online with Tru until I was fully awake, good thing she's hours behind me! :D

Gilshalos Sedai
08-11-2008, 11:33 AM
Nope, never seen it. Had to Google it.



Cary, that sounds very close to a few dreams I've had.

Crispin's Crispian
08-11-2008, 11:42 AM
I swear, if I had those kinds of zombies in my dreams, I'd probably laugh out loud. Well, I'm sure they're scarier when they're eating your neighbor.

This part of the discussion kinds of me reminds me of something I told my (three year old) daughter the other day. She was half-jokingly talking about how she can't sleep in her own because the Maya-monsters will eat her (her name is Maya) She says they come in the door at night when she's alone and it's dark. But she says all this in a kind of teasing/pretending way because she knows I knows she's just making excuses.

Anyway, so I told her that, when the monsters come in, she should ask them what's wrong and be really nice to them. She could tell them she loves them and give them a big hug. She actually thought this was good idea.

So, last night, when I was laying her down in her bed, she says that she's scared because the Jude-monster is going to come in and eat her AND the Maya monster. (Jude is her brother.)

Anyway, never underestimate your kids.

Gilshalos Sedai
08-11-2008, 11:48 AM
I was joking about the brains thing, Muttley. But I've never considered embracing the undead in my nightmares, no.

Sinistrum
08-11-2008, 11:54 AM
I think it is weird how most people here who have lucidly dreamed usually do so in response to nightmares. I'm no exception either. You'd be surprised how effective Wolverine claws are against snakes or the undead. I'm just glad I've been able to do it a couple of times outside of the nightmare context.

And Sdog, the old man sitting next to your bed sounds a hell of a lot like the results of the Japanese research study. It also sounds extremely creepy.

Cary Sedai
08-11-2008, 11:57 AM
It scares the bejeezus out of me, Gil.

I just remembered this other strange event. I was staying at my mom's house, and I slept in her bed. (Yes, I was a momma's girl, geez I miss her..) I woke up, sat up and looked around her room. I could see her room, see her next to me and still see my dream. My dream was superimposed over her bedroom, or maybe the other way around, I don't know. I reached over and started shaking my mom telling her, "Wake me up, I can still see my dream, and I can't wake up." I was very panicked. She woke up, and when she sat up, I woke all the way up.

Hehe,after explaining what happened, she told me "At least you've grown out of flipping around and kicking me in the head" :D

Gilshalos Sedai
08-11-2008, 12:02 PM
Hehe,after explaining what happened, she told me "At least you've grown out of flipping around and kicking me in the head"

LMAO

I've had the lucid dream about someone sitting in my room watching me, too. Though the out of body experience happened at the same time and in my dream state, I thought that phantom person was trying to pull my soul out of my body.

Fortunately, I've not had one of those paralysis dreams since Bryan came into my life.

Anaiya Sedai
08-11-2008, 12:21 PM
my last paralyis dream happened when I was still at school, but none since we moved to bath.
I often get dreams that seem to try to suck me back in, and if I do manage to wake up, I'm terrified to go back to sleep.

Brita
08-11-2008, 07:48 PM
That's what I have too- the weird people watching me beside my bed. I usually know right away it's a dream because I used to have them quite frequently. Sometimes I wake up and think my husband is someone else (and if you remember from previous discussions, that freaks me out as I sleep in the buff).

One of the worst though, my brain tricked me. I woke up to my daughter standing beside my bed- which is a very common occurrence- and I asked her "What's up, babe?" And her face twisted into a demon-like horror and she went made this awful sound, and them moved her head closer and made it again. Well, I wasn't prepared for that- I actually knocked my light off my side-table in a panic. Of course she faded away and I realized it was just a stupid hypnagogic hallucination.

Davian93
08-11-2008, 07:56 PM
You guys ever think that you're not just imagining those people sitting by your beds? Maybe they are there in some form?

Just sayin is all.




Bet you're really freaked out now.

Brita
08-11-2008, 08:28 PM
Thanks Dav :rolleyes:

I rely on the fact that no harm has come to me yet, so I will assume no harm will come at all.

Therefore, they are harmless, one way or the other.

Davian93
08-11-2008, 08:32 PM
Ghosts usually are ;)

Sei'taer
08-11-2008, 09:04 PM
I've been thinking about this all day and I can honestly say that I only remember 2 dreams ever and neither of those was particularly vivid. I've never had problems sleeping...day shift or night shift.

When I decide I'm ready for bed I just go. I've had people tell me I sleep like an army vet because I can put myself out anytime and anywhere but I can also stay up for hours with no problem. Funny thing is, I sleep very heavy. My wife will wake me up and ask me if I heard how many times the kids got up and I'm like "the kids got up...they came in here?"

As far as the dark goes, I love it. I enjoy walking at night and I'm not bothered by dark places. Hell, I live with a ghost now and I lived alone with her for several years after I got divorced. If you don't mind faucets turning on and the doors on the entertainment center opening and the light on the fan turning on and off sometimes then you're golden at my house. My wife has even gotten used to it now and just gets up and turns the faucet off in the master bath when it fires up in the middle of the night...I don't hear it unless it happens during the day...lol.

Davian93
08-11-2008, 09:10 PM
So ummm Taer...please explain that last bit...

Brita
08-11-2008, 10:06 PM
Yes, please explain further, very intriguing...

Sei'taer
08-12-2008, 08:39 AM
Yes, please explain further, very intriguing...


I'm assuming y'all are talking about the ghosts. We have one in our house. The nearest we can figure she was the women who lived in the house when it was originally built in the '30's. She's the only one on record that actually died in the house. It's possible that it's not her, but we know its a woman and it seems reasonable to assume that its her. I have a doorway that goes from the den into the hallway to the bedrooms and bathroom It used to have a door on it, but it's been modified so that now there is just an open walk-thru. Sometimes when we are sitting and watching TV you will see her go by the door. Funny thing is she always moves east to west across the door, never the other way. She wears an orange sweater and a dark skirt (we haven't been able to identify the color yet). I have seen her, my wife has seen her, my mom has seen her, my step-dad has seen her and SoE has seen her, and my wife's best friend and her husband have seen her and all my kids have seen her and a whole bunch of my friends. We call her Esther, because that was the womans name who died in the house. On to the weird stuff.

She seems to like my kids. When my oldest daughter, who is now 17, was a baby, she would sit and watch her in the hall. You would be in the other room and she would start laughing and you'd come in and check on her and she would say that the "woman" was being silly. She watches Jake, my 2 year old, while he naps during the day and when she thinks he's slept long enough she will turn the TV on in my room and crank the sound up wide open. If you go in and turn it off and don't wake him up, she'll turn it back on again until you do. We've experimented with this for a while and it's pretty funny. If you turn it off and then leave the room and turn back towards the den, the TV will immediately turn back on. If you go to the bathroom or his room, it'll stay off, unless you leave without waking him up. My 7 yr old daughter, the one that has rett syndrome, sleeps in the other bedrom and often wakes up at odd hours of the night and plays in her bed until she falls back to sleep. She can't walk, and definitely can't get in or out of the bed by herself, but sometimes in the morning she will have different toys in the bed than she started out the night with.

Esther also turns on the water in the master bath for some unknown reason, she opens doors and turns lights off and on. If she wasn't such a sweetheart, I would be scared, but she has never done anything for me to be scared of. When I lived there alone I would sometimes ask her to stop turning the lights off and on because it gets really annoying and she would. Now she only does it when no one is around. Sometimes I wake up in the morning and open the bedroom door and every other light in the house is on...but she's usually pretty good about only turning on one or two.

Now, outside my house I have heard men yelling and horses running and stuff jingling. My neighbor and I laugh about it because he'll often talk about having a rough night in the Battle for Collierville (http://battleofcollierville.com/the_battle)last night. I live right where that battle was fought and it seems to me thats where I get those noises from. I have never seen any of them, but I have heard them and so has my neighbor. Mom and Step Dad say they have turned in my driveway and seen a man sitting on the swing on the front porch, but I have never seen that. Anyway, thats the story of Taer world. Like I always say, if you want to come down and stay for a few days so she can get used to you being there, you'll likely see all kinds of stuff.

It sounds crazy and people never believe me until they see it happen with their own eyes. I have friends who won't come to my house anymore because they are lily livered yellow streaked chickens and got the shit scared out of them once. If you ask me if I believe in ghosts, guess what my answer would be...lol.

Gilshalos Sedai
08-12-2008, 08:51 AM
Interesting. And here I've only ever had a ghost that called my name.

tanaww
08-12-2008, 08:52 AM
That's a fascinating story, 'Taer. Really.

Brita
08-12-2008, 09:39 AM
Wow- Taer! Amazing!

We had some slight inclinations of a ghost in our house, but nothing like your experiences. Truly incredible.

Just think about the joy you are giving Esther by having a family she can watch over, and that accepts her. Very cool.

When my son was two and we had just moved into our house (which is about 80 yrs old), he said one morning "Mom, what is that man saying?" and I said "What man?" and he said "The man that comes into my room at night". Sounds very similar to your oldest daughter's first encounter. And my husband and I would both wake up at night to footsteps coming up the stairs, thinking one of the kids is up, and they would both be sound asleep. We also had banging at 0806 two mornings in a row that we couldn't discover the cause, and water dripping from no where in the basement. But all these things can be explained away- yours are very convincing.

Gilshalos Sedai
08-12-2008, 09:50 AM
Sounds like y'all need a visit from Ghost Hunters.

Cary Sedai
08-12-2008, 10:43 AM
Sounds like y'all need a visit from Ghost Hunters.

I don't think Esther would like that, she sounds shy.

Gilshalos Sedai
08-12-2008, 10:44 AM
I was talking about the Civil War ghosts.

Sinistrum
08-12-2008, 10:56 AM
That is very interesting that you've actually been able to interact and experiment with behavior in your situation Sei. That sort of activity tends to stick with intelligent type hauntings which is neat. Have you ever had any sort of legitimate investigative effort done in your house? And by legitimate I mean minus any crazy person claiming to be psychic.

Sei'taer
08-12-2008, 03:36 PM
That is very interesting that you've actually been able to interact and experiment with behavior in your situation Sei. That sort of activity tends to stick with intelligent type hauntings which is neat. Have you ever had any sort of legitimate investigative effort done in your house? And by legitimate I mean minus any crazy person claiming to be psychic.

We talked about it, but haven't actually called anyone to come a look. I figure those people are looking for real nasty ghosts. You also have to understand that this doesn't happen all the time. Every time I put Jake down for a nap she doesn't want us to get him up. It happens every once in a while and goes on for a day or 2 and then it stops for a while. I've lived there a long time so a lot of that is spread out over the years. The last time we had anything big happen was about 5 months ago and it was just some lights going on and off. I used to have video of it, but my computer that it was on fried the harddrive and I lost it. Next time it happens I'll see if I can get something to show y'all. I've seen on line that if you take pics and they have floaties in them they are supposed to be ghosts, but I don't really believe that. Most pictures...the majority actually, are all good pics with no floaties. We do have messed up ones sometimes, but I had messed up ones like that in other places so I think thats a scam.

But all these things can be explained away- yours are very convincing.

All my friends who have seen things can explain them away. They still won't come hang out anymore. I used to be a bigshot and talk about how there is no such thing as ghosts...even after I moved into the house I still said there was no such thing. It took several things to change my mind. I had a huge fight with my ex after seeing Esther in the hall because I thought she was trying to scare me...

That's a fascinating story, 'Taer. Really.

Next time you talk to Pop ask him if he's ever seen anything. He's never mentioned it to me if he has so I'm really not sure. Maybe SoE will even pop in one of these days and tell you his story about playing computer games and getting advice from ghosts...course, he could have been and likely was, drunk at the time so that makes his statements suspect...lol.

Gilshalos Sedai
08-12-2008, 03:43 PM
he could have been and likely was, drunk at the time so that makes his statements suspect...lol.


You mean they're not always?

Sei'taer
08-12-2008, 03:48 PM
You mean they're not always?

Well, there is that.

tanaww
08-12-2008, 05:26 PM
I wasn't being sarcastic, jackass. I am not a sarcastic non-believer. I EVEN GAVE YOU REP FOR IT! I want to come to your house and meet the ghost. I'll bring beer and Sarge will make wings! But we can't tell the horde about the ghost or they'll never go for it.

DahLliA
08-12-2008, 05:49 PM
I've had bad dreams, I know I'm dreaming and there is something, dark, there that is menacing and all I want to do is get away. I know that the only way to get away is to wake myself up. It is always very hard to wake up, like I'm clawing my way up through water, with something dragging me down. Once I'm awake, I can't move and still feel the presence of whatever it is, and I'm still scared. I'm always very sleepy and feel like something is pulling me back into my dream. I struggle with myself until I'm fully awake and can calm myself down. If I go back to sleep without doing that, it happens all over again.

I've had this a couple of times. really scary. but I found a trick way back when I was 10 or so after waking from a nightmare once. no laughing please >_> but I just imagine myself back into the dream as a jedi with lightsabers(I think I'd just seen star wars or something) and it works like a charm. if the nightmare continues I make short work of whatever monster it was :p

not that I've had nightmares like that for years though. but basically just go back and kick the scary's @ss :p

Sei'taer
08-12-2008, 07:56 PM
I wasn't being sarcastic, jackass. I am not a sarcastic non-believer. I EVEN GAVE YOU REP FOR IT! I want to come to your house and meet the ghost. I'll bring beer and Sarge will make wings! But we can't tell the horde about the ghost or they'll never go for it.


SWEET!..We can scare the beejeezus out of 'em! I love wings too!

pops taer
08-12-2008, 09:17 PM
I can't say for sure about Esther cuz I've never seen her. However, I can say that I've come awake at weird hours and felt like someone was in the room with me. So there is the possibility. I have had some of those unable to move type dreams. I seldom recall a dream now and I lay that off on my crazy working hours. I firmly believe after talking to some of my Postal Service cohorts that the crazy night hours make you sleep and not remember the dreams. Of course in the case of the 'taer clan it might be the "White Lightening" that creates the inability to move. You know the old story. My Grandad only drinks to settle his nerves. Sometimes they get so settled he can't move..

DeiwosTheSkyGod
08-13-2008, 12:07 AM
You guys have me fascinated with this thread. I've never had sleep paralysis, but I've had a few lucid dreams. I had no idea that you could force them, though. Learning to do this is a new life project.

SDog, I spit water all over my computer, too. That was classic.

Gilshalos Sedai
08-13-2008, 07:25 AM
I've had this a couple of times. really scary. but I found a trick way back when I was 10 or so after waking from a nightmare once. no laughing please >_> but I just imagine myself back into the dream as a jedi with lightsabers(I think I'd just seen star wars or something) and it works like a charm. if the nightmare continues I make short work of whatever monster it was

That's lucid dreaming, Dahllia.

DahLliA
08-13-2008, 07:54 PM
That's lucid dreaming, Dahllia.

oh. guess we need another thread about male dreamers then ^_^

Gilshalos Sedai
08-14-2008, 07:39 AM
oh. guess we need another thread about male dreamers then ^_^


I really don't think we need to discuss those dreams. ;)

Sinistrum
08-14-2008, 10:43 AM
I really don't think we need to discuss those dreams.

What, you don't want to hear the one I had about tricia helfer last night? :p

Gilshalos Sedai
08-14-2008, 10:59 AM
~full body dry heave~

Sinistrum
08-14-2008, 11:06 AM
~full body dry heave~

Victory is mine. :D