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View Full Version : S.1867 - Concern bill grants arrest powers to US Military domestic and abroad


Yellowbeard
11-29-2011, 12:00 AM
See this link to read about the concern:

http://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/senators-demand-military-lock-american-citizens-battlefield-they-define-being

I looked up the bill text on Library of Congress's Thomas site. The section 1031 that was noted of concern in the ACLU article was not shown in the text published.

Did this already get removed from the bill per the noted Udall amendment and I'm just late to the party?

Regardless I didn't see this mentioned before on Theoryland...so enjoy.

GonzoTheGreat
11-29-2011, 03:59 AM
What's the problem?
If Congress votes in favor, then it would be law.

Anyone who disagrees with it just on principles wouldn't have standing, so he or she could not challenge this in court. Anyone 'arrested' under this provision wouldn't have access to a lawyer, so he couldn't challenge it either. Thus, this would obviously be entirely impossible for SCOTUS to rule unconstitutional, and thus: no (legal) problem at all.

Davian93
11-29-2011, 08:25 AM
Just think, this idiot almost became President. The 4th and 5th Amendments are completely overrated anyway.

Res_Ipsa
11-29-2011, 09:12 AM
Just think, this idiot almost became President. The 4th and 5th Amendments are completely overrated anyway.

The madness is on both sides of the aisle (Janet Napolitano and Holder included), it did not even start with the Patriot Act. It goes back to many of the UN conventions on global security in the 80s and 90s.

Davian93
11-29-2011, 09:21 AM
The madness is on both sides of the aisle (Janet Napolitano and Holder included), it did not even start with the Patriot Act. It goes back to many of the UN conventions on global security in the 80s and 90s.

The key difference here: McCain has sponsored this atrocity while Obama has at least said he'll veto it.

How this would ever stand up to SCOTUS scrutiny is beyond me as it seemingly violates 2 Amendments but that hasn't stopped the Patriot Act or any other ridiculously fascist acts by our government since 9/11.

Sei'taer
11-29-2011, 09:52 AM
Kind of thought this fit in with quite a few things that have been going on lately. A friend of mine posted it a couple of days agao. Incidentally, he's the economist that I talk to about the things we discuss here.

Freedom Watch (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=dX41SkKN0tQ)

Gilshalos Sedai
11-29-2011, 09:55 AM
Kind of thought this fit in with quite a few things that have been going on lately. A friend of mine posted it a couple of days agao. Incidentally, he's the economist that I talk to about the things we discuss here.

Freedom Watch (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=dX41SkKN0tQ)

Exactly. Wall Street ain't the issue.

Ivhon
11-29-2011, 10:26 AM
The key difference here: McCain has sponsored this atrocity while Obama has at least said he'll veto it.

How this would ever stand up to SCOTUS scrutiny is beyond me as it seemingly violates 2 Amendments but that hasn't stopped the Patriot Act or any other ridiculously fascist acts by our government since 9/11.

It could very well stand up to scrutiny by this SCOTUS. Would Scalia shoot this down? Thomas? Roberts? Alito? As usual, it would boil down to Kennedy

Ivhon
11-29-2011, 10:28 AM
Kind of thought this fit in with quite a few things that have been going on lately. A friend of mine posted it a couple of days agao. Incidentally, he's the economist that I talk to about the things we discuss here.

Freedom Watch (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=dX41SkKN0tQ)

I dismiss anything from Fox News that starts with the words Freedom or Truth out of hand.

Frenzy
11-29-2011, 10:30 AM
It won't change. Kids are idiots because schools are undervalued and curriculum is subject to the whim of the lobbyists. More idiotic soft-brained sheeple are being bred up to maintain the status quo, and those of us smart enough to do anything won't because we're shamed or looked upon with distrust by the very same sheeple who are too busy or too stupid to do anything but what they're spoon-fed to do. Or, like me, they're not going to go to jail or get shot for the sake of those fucktards.

just my worthless two coppers...

Gilshalos Sedai
11-29-2011, 10:32 AM
It won't change. Kids are idiots because schools are undervalued and curriculum is subject to the whim of the lobbyists. More idiotic soft-brained sheeple are being bred up to maintain the status quo, and those of us smart enough to do anything won't because we're shamed or looked upon with distrust by the very same sheeple who are too busy or too stupid to do anything but what they're spoon-fed to do. Or, like me, they're not going to go to jail or get shot for the sake of those fucktards.

just my worthless two coppers...

You and me both, Sis.

Sei'taer
11-29-2011, 10:36 AM
I dismiss anything from Fox News that starts with the words Freedom or Truth out of hand.

It's some judge guy and he talks about this very thing in his rant. I thought it fit well with the discussion.

Gilshalos Sedai
11-29-2011, 10:39 AM
I dismiss anything from Fox News that starts with the words Freedom or Truth out of hand.

I don't see why it should be dismissed. Yes, it's Fox. So what? Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Ivhon
11-29-2011, 11:03 AM
I don't see why it should be dismissed. Yes, it's Fox. So what? Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Thanks for the stopped clock metaphor...was already in my head :)

Even though the stopped clock is right twice a day, you can't trust to know when those two times are - you have to go look at a working clock anyway to verify. So it is a waste of time to watch Fox in the first place when I know I'm going to have to go research every "fact (or opinion)" presented and the presenter him/herself. I watched for 20 seconds, which is enough to see the jingoistic waving American flag coupled with "truth and freedom." Followed by some guy starting an opinion rant. Experience has taught me that when anyone - but particularly NewsCorp - associates their op-ed with a waving American flag (or Eagle...go Colbert) with th words "truth" and/or "freedom" I am going to be seriously misled at best and outright lied to at worst.

So why waste my time? Much more productive to use that time writing this post with one finger on my smartphone instead of walking two feet to my fullsize keyboard ;)

Gilshalos Sedai
11-29-2011, 11:05 AM
Thanks for the stopped clock metaphor...was already in my head :)

Even though the stopped clock is right twice a day, you can't trust to know when those two times are - you have to go look at a working clock anyway to verify. So it is a waste of time to watch Fox in the first place when I know I'm going to have to go research every "fact (or opinion)" presented and the presenter him/herself. I watched for 20 seconds, which is enough to see the jingoistic waving American flag coupled with "truth and freedom." Followed by some guy starting an opinion rant. Experience has taught me that when anyone - but particularly NewsCorp - associates their op-ed with a waving American flag (or Eagle...go Colbert) with th words "truth" and/or "freedom" I am going to be seriously misled at best and outright lied to at worst.

So why waste my time? Much more productive to use that time writing this post with one finger on my smartphone instead of walking two feet to my fullsize keyboard ;)

LOL, it was a bunch of what-ifs anyway. Questions I already ask on a near daily basis.