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View Full Version : It's starting to look a lot like we've left


Zombie Sammael
12-09-2011, 10:26 AM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/dec/09/uk-isolation-grows-eurozone-treaty

It looks to me an awful lot like Britain has effectively left the EU. Who knows what will happen now? The popular sentiment in Britain, for as long as I've known it, has always tended towards euro-scepticism, and yet we actually need Europe an awful lot more than most people realised. Obviously, our exalted Prime Minister is hoping - along with the Euro-sceptic Tory old-boys in his party - that he will be able to secure membership of a free trade area without the political and economic controls that have traditionally been associated with it, but effectively there are now between 23 and 26 countries who are willing to sign up to the new treaty and its effects, while only Britain has rejected it outright. One wonders what else this means. Cameron and his Tories have long wanted to reform or to rubbish the Human Rights Act, which effectively just puts the ECHR into law. Perhaps outside of Europe they're better placed to do it.

As one commentator said, what has happened to Cameron here isn't what you'd normally call "vetoing". The other countries have all decided to join together under the treaty. It would be more appropriate to describe it as "losing".

Davian93
12-09-2011, 10:48 AM
I heard he's gonna blow up the Chunnel too...too much European corruption making its way to Merry Old Englande!

Zombie Sammael
12-09-2011, 10:50 AM
I heard he's gonna blow up the Chunnel too...too much European corruption making its way to Merry Old Englande!

That's mostly because we need to stop the vampire plague from making its way to Britain.

Mort
12-09-2011, 11:47 AM
That's mostly because we need to stop the vampire plague from making its way to Britain.

Just as the threat of zombies has been averted, now vampires? What's next!?

Sei'taer
12-09-2011, 04:22 PM
You had pretty much dropped the euro anyway, hadn't you? I think it had been several years ago, from what I remember.

I think it might be better in the long run than trying to hang on to something that isn't very stable and doesn't look like it will be for a while.

Zombie Sammael
12-09-2011, 04:48 PM
You had pretty much dropped the euro anyway, hadn't you? I think it had been several years ago, from what I remember.

I think it might be better in the long run than trying to hang on to something that isn't very stable and doesn't look like it will be for a while.

We were never in the Euro, but we were involved in - and apparently still want to be involved in - the free market. What essentially appears to have happened is that every country in the EU except Britain has decided to go one way, and Britain has decided not to. That puts Britain in a very odd position with regard to its involvement in the European Union, while the other countries involve move towards a stronger union based on unified economic goals. To be honest, I would rather my country retain the autonomy it currently has, but I'm somewhat worried about what the implications for free trade and the EU as we know it are. All the signs appear to be that this is the beginning of the end for Britain in Europe (other than, you know, geographically).

Davian93
12-09-2011, 08:00 PM
We were never in the Euro, but we were involved in - and apparently still want to be involved in - the free market. What essentially appears to have happened is that every country in the EU except Britain has decided to go one way, and Britain has decided not to. That puts Britain in a very odd position with regard to its involvement in the European Union, while the other countries involve move towards a stronger union based on unified economic goals. To be honest, I would rather my country retain the autonomy it currently has, but I'm somewhat worried about what the implications for free trade and the EU as we know it are. All the signs appear to be that this is the beginning of the end for Britain in Europe (other than, you know, geographically).

So would you say the lights are going out across Europe? Do you expect to see them lit again in our lifetime?

Terez
12-09-2011, 09:16 PM
All the signs appear to be that this is the beginning of the end for Britain in Europe (other than, you know, geographically).Britain isn't in Europe. It's an island, for chrissake.

Davian93
12-09-2011, 09:23 PM
Britain isn't in Europe. It's an island, for chrissake.


Not with the Chunnel. Tbey need to blow it up and close the borders!

I think, historically, Britain's fear of engagement with the rest of Europe is second only to Russia for paranoia.

They've always held themselves apart.

Though in this case, I agree with them. Had they gone along with this treaty, they would have given up their sovereignty and taken a large step towards being just another state in a Federated Europe led by Germany & France. Why play 3rd fiddle to them?

The Unreasoner
12-09-2011, 09:46 PM
I think my new signature makes my feelings on this quite clear, but if I am mistaken...

The EU can't have Britain. They belong to the Anglosphere.

ETA:
BTW, I'm back.

yks 6nnetu hing
12-10-2011, 05:52 AM
So would you say the lights are going out across Europe? Do you expect to see them lit again in our lifetime?

as I said before: unclench, it'll be fine.


my personal opinion: the press, particularly in the US is fixating on the problems of the Eurozone in order to avoid looking at their own financial mayhem. The ratings agencies have lost all credibility to "impartiality" by now so pretty much any movements S&P or Moody's make is... tainted by the political aims of the US banking sector. It's good for US to be the Top Dog, and at the moment, to be that it means economically undermining EU. Without paying much attention at all to China and India that are rocketing up. Which is stupid (the not paying attention, I mean)

As for Britain leaving or staying... well, with their non-participation in the Euro AND the Schengen area, it's not that big a change, really. The problem is, Cameron's been trying to pipe up about the Euro and what needs to be done and then when nobody listened he got all in a huff and stomped off without fully realizing that the reason nobody listened is that it's the EUROZONE, and Britain's not part of it so why should he be able to have a say in that? Particularly seeing as he absolutely refuses to let EU have any say in Britain's finances? Classic case of "do as I say, not as I do".

Zombie Sammael
12-10-2011, 07:18 AM
So would you say the lights are going out across Europe? Do you expect to see them lit again in our lifetime?

It's not the end of the world yet. In fact, this treaty is designed to strengthen the union within Europe by giving greater centralised financial controls. In fact, when you look at the two major issues, this is kinda neutral: we won't get the more stringent controls on the financial markets that we actually need, but we also won't be subject to the repressive fiscal policy (and Germany's views on public spending). The latter doesn't really matter with our current government's policies, but at least it means any future government won't be tied down by it. All of the more immediate problems I can see for Britain are domestic. Europe is now looking at more of a situation where it can pull itself out, but it's going to be facing an age of austerity that might be as damaging as the crisis itself (although those on the right are bound to disagree).

Britain isn't in Europe. It's an island, for chrissake.

Britain is geographically part of continental Europe, Terez. Also, I'd like you to at least give me the credit of knowing where my own country is. I mean, I presume you know the rough geographic position of the USA.

I think my new signature makes my feelings on this quite clear, but if I am mistaken...

The EU can't have Britain. They belong to the Anglosphere.

ETA:
BTW, I'm back.

Yay! Welcome back. :)

Terez
12-10-2011, 08:08 AM
Britain is geographically part of continental Europe, Terez. Also, I'd like you to at least give me the credit of knowing where my own country is.Why should I do that when you think it's in Europe? It's in the bloody ocean!

I mean, I presume you know the rough geographic position of the USA.It's not in Europe either. It's just where Europeans and Brits went to get their own hemisphere. The delineation is just as clear as it is over there, except for the French people in Canada. Brits here, Europeans over there. Except now you've all interbred with the Indians (who weren't actually Indians after all, since it's easy to forget what continent you're on sometimes), so that confuses the issue all over again. But your little island is definitely not in Europe.

Terez
12-10-2011, 08:09 AM
Also, am I the only person who thought this thread was going to be about Christmas?

Zombie Sammael
12-10-2011, 08:39 AM
Why should I do that when you think it's in Europe? It's in the bloody ocean!

It's not in Europe either. It's just where Europeans and Brits went to get their own hemisphere. The delineation is just as clear as it is over there, except for the French people in Canada. Brits here, Europeans over there. Except now you've all interbred with the Indians (who weren't actually Indians after all, since it's easy to forget what continent you're on sometimes), so that confuses the issue all over again. But your little island is definitely not in Europe.

It's part of the European continental formation, though separated from it by water. I would describe neither the North Sea nor the Channel as "oceans" however. Anyway, if you ask the Daily Mail, all the Indians are over here now.

Also, am I the only person who thought this thread was going to be about Christmas?

It's possible I may have been subconsciously influenced by the constant barrage of Christmas music when titling the thread, yes. We can change it to be a Christmas thread if you're bored of European politics, though.

So, Christmas, eh? What's everyone getting this year?

GonzoTheGreat
12-10-2011, 09:07 AM
Anyway, if you ask the Daily Mail, all the Indians are over here now.Aren't those Pakis?

Zombie Sammael
12-10-2011, 09:17 AM
Aren't those Pakis?

You think the Daily Mail knows the difference?

(also, many would consider "Paki" a racial slur, I'd be careful of using it when you mean "Pakistanis", but that may have been your point)

GonzoTheGreat
12-10-2011, 09:31 AM
You think the Daily Mail knows the difference?

(also, many would consider "Paki" a racial slur, I'd be careful of using it when you mean "Pakistanis", but that may have been your point)
I know it's a racial slur.

And, as to the first point: it is indeed doubtful that the Daily Mail knows anything. After all, they didn't tap anyone's phone, so they couldn't find out things, could they? :p

Zombie Sammael
12-10-2011, 09:51 AM
I know it's a racial slur.

And, as to the first point: it is indeed doubtful that the Daily Mail knows anything. After all, they didn't tap anyone's phone, so they couldn't find out things, could they? :p

Well, quite. It only takes a brief glance at the Mail to be able to see that they don't know anything, and since phone tapping is the only way the press can find out about anything, that's obviously why.

I expect Terez will be very upset about the fact that we're still not discussing Christmas.

yks 6nnetu hing
12-10-2011, 10:27 AM
I expect Terez will be very upset about the fact that we're still not discussing Christmas.

yeah. Because these boards are designed with the sole purpose of pleasing Her Royal Majesty Empress Terez, may she wine forever!

Zombie Sammael
12-10-2011, 10:39 AM
yeah. Because these boards are designed with the sole purpose of pleasing Her Royal Majesty Empress Terez, may she wine forever!

Are you accusing Terez of being an alcoholic?

yks 6nnetu hing
12-10-2011, 10:57 AM
Are you accusing Terez of being an alcoholic?

um... wine, and years (forever), and better, and Terez, and hope?

Zombie Sammael
12-10-2011, 11:05 AM
um... wine, and years (forever), and better, and Terez, and hope?

Am I supposed to guess what they all have in common, or which is the odd one out? :p

Zombie Sammael
12-10-2011, 04:55 PM
And now I'm starting to wonder if we'll even have a government by next year... http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/dec/10/nick-clegg-david-cameron-europe-veto

Sarevok
12-10-2011, 06:27 PM
And now I'm starting to wonder if we'll even have a government by next year...

Same here. Not really anything to worry about.

Terez
12-10-2011, 09:27 PM
yeah. Because these boards are designed with the sole purpose of pleasing Her Royal Majesty Empress Terez, may she wine forever!I thought I was Pope-Empress?

GonzoTheGreat
12-11-2011, 05:11 AM
I thought I was Pope-Empress?
Maybe in these modern times a pope isn't allowed to be an atheist.

Besides, "pope" is a variation on "papa" or "father", so then you should be "Mome-Empress". Do you really want that title?

Zombie Sammael
12-11-2011, 05:58 AM
Maybe in these modern times a pope isn't allowed to be an atheist.

Besides, "pope" is a variation on "papa" or "father", so then you should be "Mome-Empress". Do you really want that title?

That makes her sound like Empress of the Moomins.

DahLliA
12-11-2011, 06:06 AM
Well, quite.

http://cs9627.vkontakte.ru/u17836912/-6/x_245d83b5.jpg

Zombie Sammael
12-11-2011, 06:09 AM
http://cs9627.vkontakte.ru/u17836912/-6/x_245d83b5.jpg

Sometimes I'm British, and the other times, I'm very British.

yks 6nnetu hing
12-11-2011, 09:22 AM
Am I supposed to guess what they all have in common, or which is the odd one out? :p

wine gets better with years, so when I say "may she wine forever", I meant may she continue the wining process, with the hope of becoming less acidic and more mellow.

Sei'taer
12-11-2011, 09:37 AM
wine gets better with years, so when I say "may she wine forever", I meant may she continue the wining process, with the hope of becoming less acidic and more mellow.

Some wines just taste like shit and never mellow. Mad Dog, Boones Farm, Wild Irish Rose...it's like putting up a bottle of gin and juice for a few years and expecting it to get smoother...it just ain't gonna happen.

Terez
12-11-2011, 10:25 AM
Composing your epitaph early, eh?