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DahLliA
12-14-2011, 06:36 AM
Anyone else started playing yet? Or plan on playing after launch?

Pretty awesome game as far as story and levelling goes at least. Can't say anything about endgame yet since the headstart only started yesterday.

Ivhon
12-14-2011, 08:53 AM
Anyone else started playing yet? Or plan on playing after launch?

Pretty awesome game as far as story and levelling goes at least. Can't say anything about endgame yet since the headstart only started yesterday.

I am retired from subscription gaming. Will not be starting a new one.

Call me jaded, but I think that there are severe flaws with the genre.

DahLliA
12-14-2011, 09:41 AM
I don't see any problem with subscriptions tbh.

you are paying for better customer service, more development time, faster bug/balance fixes etc...

and unless you play less than two hours a month it's cheaper entertainment than movies/books/tv(at least by Norwegian prices)

and if the game stops being fun you simply cancel the sub and move on.


F2P games usually are either:
A. horrible or
B. P2win(with microtransactions that are a must if you want to be competetive)

but I'm curious to hear what flaws you mean? and did you mean only sub games or MMOs in general?

Ivhon
12-14-2011, 09:57 AM
I don't see any problem with subscriptions tbh.

you are paying for better customer service, more development time, faster bug/balance fixes etc...

and unless you play less than two hours a month it's cheaper entertainment than movies/books/tv(at least by Norwegian prices)

and if the game stops being fun you simply cancel the sub and move on.


F2P games usually are either:
A. horrible or
B. P2win(with microtransactions that are a must if you want to be competetive)

but I'm curious to hear what flaws you mean? and did you mean only sub games or MMOs in general?

MMOs in general. The sub game decision is strictly based on not having time to validate the sub.

Guild Wars is a f2p game that is neither horrible or p2w.

MMO flaws include balancing - among classes, between hardcore and casual, between solo and group play. Also, quality content cannot be developed faster than it is conquered (gamers > devs). Finally, unless you are totally hardcore and play with likeminded folks, it is difficult to impossible to play at the same pace as your friends - inevitably some will have more/less time in game and will progress at different rates.

None of these is necessarily a total indictment of the genre, but they are enough - combined with family and career - to keep me out of the sub MMO market. I will still pop into some f2p games from time to time to goof around.

GonzoTheGreat
12-14-2011, 10:05 AM
MMO flaws include balancing - among classes, between hardcore and casual, between solo and group play. Also, quality content cannot be developed faster than it is conquered (gamers > devs). Finally, unless you are totally hardcore and play with likeminded folks, it is difficult to impossible to play at the same pace as your friends - inevitably some will have more/less time in game and will progress at different rates.
In short: too much free market, not enough "all snowflakes should be equal". :p

ShadowbaneX
12-14-2011, 11:20 AM
I got in on the beta weekend around during the American Thanksgiving and I can sum up my experience like this "I got a lightsabre & a spaceship...I did like 75% of what I wanted to do with the game, there's no point to me actually buying the game now."

I toured around as a Light-Side Sith Sorcerer and had some fun messing up the Sith Empire from the inside. Mostly though it feels as if someone made a KotOR 3 and just had some VP come in and say "ok, now make it an MMO! MMOs make all the money these days." The devs then tacked on an MMO element which sorta works.

Then there are the heroic quests & the instances which show rather painfully where they're forcing you to group up for multiplayer. Then in those events you realize after a while that everyone else playing as your class is pretty much identical to you. They're also the first person to come along in a thousand years to discover something that no one else had, they're also Apprenticed to the same Sith Lord. They're also the one that has some destiny laid out before them and are following it down that path...and it's then that you really realize that you're playing a single player game that was forced to become an MMO.

That said, the story isn't bad, rather interested me at a few points, but you know what? I can go and look it up on a wiki somewhere and just find out what happens rather than grinding for dozens of hours or more and spending a few hundred bucks to play through it all.

Like I said at the start, "I got my lightsabre & my ship, why would I buy the game?"

Guild Wars 2 otoh...that's a different story.

Frenzy
12-14-2011, 01:14 PM
Mr. Frenzy has been beta-testing this game for months. Between it and football, its like i'm single again.

Seeker
12-14-2011, 04:15 PM
I'm sorry, what?

I heard the words "Star Wars" without the words "A New Hope," "The Empire Strikes Back" or "Return of the Jedi" and I got confused.

Mort
12-14-2011, 07:57 PM
Battlefield 3 takes up all my gaming time, which isn't a lot these days.

fdsaf3
12-14-2011, 09:12 PM
Play League of Legends like me. Sure, the community can be a bit unwelcoming. But it's probably one of the best games I've ever played, and that's saying something. And it's free! :)

DahLliA
12-15-2011, 03:20 AM
MMOs in general. The sub game decision is strictly based on not having time to validate the sub.

Guild Wars is a f2p game that is neither horrible or p2w.

MMO flaws include balancing - among classes, between hardcore and casual, between solo and group play. Also, quality content cannot be developed faster than it is conquered (gamers > devs). Finally, unless you are totally hardcore and play with likeminded folks, it is difficult to impossible to play at the same pace as your friends - inevitably some will have more/less time in game and will progress at different rates.

None of these is necessarily a total indictment of the genre, but they are enough - combined with family and career - to keep me out of the sub MMO market. I will still pop into some f2p games from time to time to goof around.

most of that is problems with the players and not the game though :p

but yeah. I'll give GW that. it's the exception that confirms the rule IMO.

not that I think GW was all that good. what put me off was that everything except cities were instanced. I like the world to be more open.

I got in on the beta weekend around during the American Thanksgiving and I can sum up my experience like this "I got a lightsabre & a spaceship...I did like 75% of what I wanted to do with the game, there's no point to me actually buying the game now."

I toured around as a Light-Side Sith Sorcerer and had some fun messing up the Sith Empire from the inside. Mostly though it feels as if someone made a KotOR 3 and just had some VP come in and say "ok, now make it an MMO! MMOs make all the money these days." The devs then tacked on an MMO element which sorta works.

Then there are the heroic quests & the instances which show rather painfully where they're forcing you to group up for multiplayer. Then in those events you realize after a while that everyone else playing as your class is pretty much identical to you. They're also the first person to come along in a thousand years to discover something that no one else had, they're also Apprenticed to the same Sith Lord. They're also the one that has some destiny laid out before them and are following it down that path...and it's then that you really realize that you're playing a single player game that was forced to become an MMO.

That said, the story isn't bad, rather interested me at a few points, but you know what? I can go and look it up on a wiki somewhere and just find out what happens rather than grinding for dozens of hours or more and spending a few hundred bucks to play through it all.

Like I said at the start, "I got my lightsabre & my ship, why would I buy the game?"

Guild Wars 2 otoh...that's a different story.

that goes for any book/game/movie though. you can find summaries for everything on the net.

and you know there's 8 different classes right? :p

I also don't see the problem of having to group with others in an MMO. kind of the point.

as for GW2, I'll probably test it, but I got the sneaking feeling it's not gonna be the second coming everyone wants it to be.

people are very fond of wishing for something new and different, but they're equally fond of complaining when they get it.

Ivhon
12-15-2011, 08:18 AM
I think everyone is always looking to recreate their first MMO experience. That, of course, can never happen.

Im not trying to trash the game here, but 8 classes? Lemme guess:

1. Tank
2. Glass Cannon
3. Crowd Control
4. Healer
5. Melee DPS
6. Stealth (if not also 5 then 7 or 8)
7 & 8. Hybrid/Non-Combat Specialty class that looks great on paper but ultimately sucks because it cannot fill roles 1-5 as well as the class that specializes there so why would a group want 7 or 8 when taking 1-5 (particularly 5 and 2) is far more efficient.

fdsaf3
12-15-2011, 09:39 AM
I'm proud to say that I've never played an MMO, which might be surprising given how much of a video game nerd I am. I just never got into it. My brothers played EverQuest growing up, and that was enough of a deterrent for me. Plus, I was a console gamer for most of my life until the past 4 or 5 years. I was more into Halo than anything on the computer.

That said, this Star Wars MMO looks fantastic from what I've seen of it. It looks like a really cool, immersive game with great production value. I won't be playing it, though. I know myself well enough to know that MMOs just aren't my cup of tea.

DahLliA
12-15-2011, 10:47 AM
I think everyone is always looking to recreate their first MMO experience. That, of course, can never happen.

Im not trying to trash the game here, but 8 classes? Lemme guess:

1. Tank
2. Glass Cannon
3. Crowd Control
4. Healer
5. Melee DPS
6. Stealth (if not also 5 then 7 or 8)
7 & 8. Hybrid/Non-Combat Specialty class that looks great on paper but ultimately sucks because it cannot fill roles 1-5 as well as the class that specializes there so why would a group want 7 or 8 when taking 1-5 (particularly 5 and 2) is far more efficient.

uhm. short answer: no, we're not in 2005 anymore :p

long answer: you got tanks, dpsers and healers.

the difference between classes is playstyle. Blizzard has set a new standard(which you may or may not like, but it's there and 12 million(10 now) players say that it's staying) when it comes to so many things in the MMO-genre.

one of them is how all tanks (should) perform equally well. same for dps and healers.

this makes it so you can choose what class you like playing instead of having to go the red mage with 10 points in dragoon or the priest with 14 points in holy crap.

in addition you got the whole 50ish hours of class-specific story and questing which is pretty damn good even for your average single player game. and here you got 8 of them. so that's 400 hours right there.

as for the specific classes I cba typing out which can be tank/dps/healer, and I wont claim it'll be perfectly balanced(Blizzard has spent 5 years trying), but I at least think having more choices and not less when it comes to which class to play are a good thing.

ShadowbaneX
12-15-2011, 10:50 AM
that goes for any book/game/movie though. you can find summaries for everything on the net.

and you know there's 8 different classes right? :p

I also don't see the problem of having to group with others in an MMO. kind of the point.

as for GW2, I'll probably test it, but I got the sneaking feeling it's not gonna be the second coming everyone wants it to be.

people are very fond of wishing for something new and different, but they're equally fond of complaining when they get it.

True, but most books, games or movies I'll only have to pay for once though. With a subscription based game you have to pay the initial cost plus the monthly fee and I don't quite feel like doing that.

And yes, I do know that there are 8 classes, in the last half-hour or so though I took a look at the Guardian and saw that the skills at least were disturbingly similar to the Inquisitor...that didn't exactly give Bioware any extra points.

There's no problem with having to group up, if the game is designed from the ground up to be multiplayer. This game feels like it's a single player game that had multiplayer elements reamed in to it because someone thought that games make more money as MMOs.

I don't want GW2 to be the second coming (of WoW?) I want it to be something completely different, and, as Ivhon suggests, the classes in tOR are rather similar to what he's listed. GW2 otoh let's any class do pretty much any role.

You are right though, people are very fond of wishing for something new & different. tOR? Not new & different. It's still very much a traditional MMO, it's just that this one has a Star Wars skin on top of it. The different elements it has, the Star Warsy stuff? The spaceships & the lightsabres? Yeah, I got them, so again, why should I now go out to pay & grind?

The only neat thing about tOR, to me at least, was getting to play a sneaky contrary character that wasn't an outrageous asshole. In many games, the Mass Effect franchise, you've got your Paragon options & your Renegade options, or the Too Nice Guy and the Outrageous Asshole. That's not the case in tOR, here I can actually go around sabotaging the Sith Empire by picking Light Side options in many cases, working to bring them down from the inside. That's different, but again, not worth the subscription fees, nor the grind.

ShadowbaneX
12-15-2011, 10:55 AM
Oh, that's another element I wasn't fond of: having Monk'ed in GW1, I found that trying to Heal with a Sith Sorcerer at least to be utterly pathetic. I think they're one of the few classes that are supposed to be able to be spec'ed to being a Healing class and perhaps I just hadn't done enough of the grind to higher levels, but your main Heal had a 3 second cast time, 2.5 seconds if you put two skill points in to it, which I did. 2.5 seconds is an ETERNITY to heal someone and was insufficient to keep ahead of the DPS. Exercise in futility is what it was most times.

I was talking to other players about it and the Bounty Hunter of all the classes seems to have been better for Healing than the Sith Sorcerer. They get their own heals (basically can shoot people with a Healing gun) and they get a companion which spends most of their time healing as well.

DahLliA
12-15-2011, 11:02 AM
haven't tried sorcerer, but I assume it gets better. or else it's gonna get fixed(another thing that is nice with sub-mmos :p)

and all classes get the basic tank/healer/dps companions somewhere along their story IIRC

ShadowbaneX
12-15-2011, 11:20 AM
It also works with Guild Wars, the non-sub-mmo ;)

And yeah, I got the tank companion, and the droid when I got my ship. Still didn't help that 2.5 casting time on Dark Infusion. When you need to heal someone you need to heal them in 1 second or less, not 2.5.

Mort
12-15-2011, 08:38 PM
The dude is talking about Diablo 3, but it's still funny/sad/relevant. Video (http://youtu.be/DDYjljdje-g). Also, do like the top rated comment tells you to do, playing Strength and Honor (look up on youtube) at the same time. Enjoy.

DahLliA
12-16-2011, 05:05 AM
True, but most books, games or movies I'll only have to pay for once though. With a subscription based game you have to pay the initial cost plus the monthly fee and I don't quite feel like doing that.

think we'll have to agree to disagree here. I think of it in terms of how many hours of "fun" I get per unit of money.

a book is 10ish hours for $20ish. so $2/hour

a cinema is 2ish hours for $15+popcorn. so $7,5/hour

sub-mmo is $15ish for potentially 24x30 hours. but I usually average 3-4 hours a day. so that's $5/hour divided by 30. so horribly cheap fun.

And yes, I do know that there are 8 classes, in the last half-hour or so though I took a look at the Guardian and saw that the skills at least were disturbingly similar to the Inquisitor...that didn't exactly give Bioware any extra points.

the classes are mirrored between empire and republic. the JK advanced classes are mirrors of the SW advanced classes etc...

but the story is still different. and the skills have different names and animations. just the mechanics are the same

There's no problem with having to group up, if the game is designed from the ground up to be multiplayer. This game feels like it's a single player game that had multiplayer elements reamed in to it because someone thought that games make more money as MMOs.

as far as the levelling goes, that is (partially) true. still have to wait and see how good endgame is.

you still see other people while levelling though. and you can level alongside someone else(me and my better half are doing this for example).

but I like that levelling is pretty much only me. it's my story :p

I don't want GW2 to be the second coming (of WoW?)


meant the second coming of everything. some people are conviced it's going to solve every issue there is with MMO-games.

I want it to be something completely different, and, as Ivhon suggests, the classes in tOR are rather similar to what he's listed. GW2 otoh let's any class do pretty much any role.

completely different is rarely a good way to go for a game aiming to be popular :p

but like I said. GW is IMO the only (almost) F2P-mmo that is even half-way decent. so I'll check out GW2. but like I said. I highly doubt it'll be as revolutionary as people seem to think.

letting every class do everything isn't exactly a new idea either.

and they're not. you can go a bad hybrid-spec if you want, but that's the players choice and not the game's fault.

You are right though, people are very fond of wishing for something new & different. tOR? Not new & different. It's still very much a traditional MMO, it's just that this one has a Star Wars skin on top of it. The different elements it has, the Star Warsy stuff? The spaceships & the lightsabres? Yeah, I got them, so again, why should I now go out to pay & grind?

people wish for new and different. they really want the familiar though.

which is why you can call SWTOR a reskinned WoW as much as you want. but it's still gonna wipe the floor with everything except WoW.

The only neat thing about tOR, to me at least, was getting to play a sneaky contrary character that wasn't an outrageous asshole. In many games, the Mass Effect franchise, you've got your Paragon options & your Renegade options, or the Too Nice Guy and the Outrageous Asshole. That's not the case in tOR, here I can actually go around sabotaging the Sith Empire by picking Light Side options in many cases, working to bring them down from the inside. That's different, but again, not worth the subscription fees, nor the grind.

again. agree to disagree. I think the story is more than worth the money.

no idea what grind you're talking about though.

still haven't killed a single mob I didn't feel like killing :p

ShadowbaneX
12-16-2011, 12:48 PM
no idea what grind you're talking about though.

still haven't killed a single mob I didn't feel like killing :p

Oh, there were tons for me. Pretty much every time I had to walk to a new area before I could pick up the fast transit and had to aggro the mobs along the way. This was mostly pre-level 14 though. The Sprinting thing allowed you to get past 75-90% of these though.

Zanguini
01-02-2012, 09:14 PM
Just got my copy.. hang around empress teta

Sinistrum
01-02-2012, 10:13 PM
most of that is problems with the players and not the game though

This pretty much sums up why I will never really get into MMORPG's (despite giving Old Republic a test drive at Bryan and Gilly's house this weekend). I hit the wall with this game in particular at the point where it started trying to force you to group up despite all the fun I had playing a smuggling and kicking enemies in the groin (yes, that is actually a skill). I hate dealing with other players online unless I'm able to shoot them in the face (a la FPS MMO's). Most of them are nothing more than annoying little twatish halfmen of the 10-19 year old male variety or at least have that mentality. I deal with that enough as is through my work. Why would I want to deal with them at home when I'm trying to relax where their antics are protected from my ability to metaphorically (or literally in some instances) slap them upside the head due to the annonymity and distance the internet creates?

GonzoTheGreat
01-03-2012, 03:48 AM
I hate dealing with other players online unless I'm able to shoot them in the face (a la FPS MMO's).
An eminently Republican attitude. Keep it up, and you might be vice-president some day.

Frenzy
01-03-2012, 03:59 AM
An eminently Republican attitude. Keep it up, and you might be vice-president some day.

Two things Gonzo:

One: If that's all it takes to be VP, you'd have to pry me out of DC with a goddamn crowbar.

Two: that joke is one month shy of being six years old. yeesh!

GonzoTheGreat
01-03-2012, 04:08 AM
One: If that's all it takes to be VP, you'd have to pry me out of DC with a goddamn crowbar.
Well, you also have to be right wing according to Tea Party standards, which I'm not entirely sure you can manage as easily as Sinistrum.

Two: that joke is one month shy of being six years old. yeesh!
A good conservative joke, yes.

Sarevok
01-04-2012, 05:24 AM
I hate dealing with other players online unless I'm able to shoot them in the face

Go play EVE Online (www.eveonline.com). :cool:

yks 6nnetu hing
01-04-2012, 05:30 AM
This pretty much sums up why I will never really get into MMORPG's (despite giving Old Republic a test drive at Bryan and Gilly's house this weekend). I hit the wall with this game in particular at the point where it started trying to force you to group up despite all the fun I had playing a smuggling and kicking enemies in the groin (yes, that is actually a skill). I hate dealing with other players online unless I'm able to shoot them in the face (a la FPS MMO's). Most of them are nothing more than annoying little twatish halfmen of the 10-19 year old male variety or at least have that mentality. I deal with that enough as is through my work. Why would I want to deal with them at home when I'm trying to relax where their antics are protected from my ability to metaphorically (or literally in some instances) slap them upside the head due to the annonymity and distance the internet creates?

Mark this day in your calendars, boys and girls, for 'tis a day in which I agree with Sini. TWICE.

Zombie Sammael
01-04-2012, 05:56 AM
They are banning people for not playing properly (http://www.destructoid.com/swtor-bans-players-for-playing-the-game-wrong-218902.phtml).

DahLliA
01-05-2012, 02:53 AM
They are banning people for not playing properly (http://www.destructoid.com/swtor-bans-players-for-playing-the-game-wrong-218902.phtml).

yeah. that mess seemed like a pretty stupid decision.

they should've just slapped a "requires level xx" on the containers and left it alone.

while I see their point it's hardly an exploit.

if they got warnings beforehand and kept doing it though they deserve a suspension.

GonzoTheGreat
01-05-2012, 04:21 AM
So, basically, the game makers made a part of the game too easy for the rewards, and now they're whining when players use this in a way that the makers hadn't intended?

I have the impression that if they had not wanted players below a certain level to get into a certain part of the game, then they could've put a "level detector" on the doorway into that part of the game. That way, the whole freaking problem would not have existed at all.
Or, alternatively, they could have placed a couple of competent monsters there. Once enough noobs get eaten, the others will get the message. Or not, in which case more noobs get eaten.

Zanguini
01-06-2012, 04:13 PM
"not yet ready for the burden were they"