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View Full Version : Why the Star Wars Prequels Suck


Seeker
12-29-2011, 03:24 PM
There's been some discussion defending these horrible wastes of film and I think everyone should watch these three reviews - which are bust-a-gut hilarious - before we say anything further.

The Fandom Blemish
http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/star-wars-episode-1-the-phantom-menace/

Attack of the Clowns
http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/star-wars-episode-ii-attack-of-the-clones/

Retread of the Shit.
http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/star-wars-episode-iii-revenge-of-the-sith/

Remember, e-mail me if you want a pizza roll. Post a comment on this web-zone if you want a pizza roll.

Zombie Sammael
12-29-2011, 03:47 PM
I... kinda said everything I'd say in reply in the other thread. Go read that!

tl;dr version, I think prequels have to add a hell of a lot of new stuff to a work to succeed, and the SW prequels didn't (and neither does New Spring).

Tomp
12-29-2011, 04:54 PM
I think the prequels weakens the originals. If you see them for the first time in the order that you're supposed to see them (i.e. 1,2,3,4,5,6) a whole lot of things get ruined. Example: The big reveal of "Luke I am your father" suddenly isn't that shocking any longer.

The first movie kind of works as a childs movie, but I can't stand the cartoon (and HE IS A CARTOON!!!!).

The second movie would have been ok if not for the never ending Anakin-Padme farse. George should realise that he can't write or direct love stories. It took Irvin Kershner to direct and Lawrence Kasdan to write to make it work in ep 5. Instead of all the "oh I love you but we can't be together" mumbo-jumbo that takes forever and is so hard to watch they should have had a love scene that they interrupted with short explanation and then in the end "love conquers everything".

The third movie is the best of them but it reveals to much about the originals. This makes them lesser and that is the problem with ep 3. The lightsaber fight in the end is twice as long as it needs to be as well.

The changes done to the originals has often been good, but some times they change a small thing and it has big consequences. Example: Instead of Han shooting Greedo now they shoot simultaneously or Greedo first. This changes Hans character and story arc. From being a more or less bad ass smuggler who is prepared to shoot an enemy without fair play, now he is a more moral individual. This lessens his story arc over ep 4,5,6 from being a rogue to being one of the truly good guys.

This went beyond the prequels but I had to get it out of me.

Fin
12-29-2011, 09:01 PM
another thing is that conflicts is that obi wan claims yodi was his master not qui gon jinn. not jedi master yodi but that he was his apprentice

Tomp
12-30-2011, 12:08 AM
another thing is that conflicts is that obi wan claims yodi was his master not qui gon jinn. not jedi master yodi but that he was his apprentice

I think they meant that Yoda taught the basics to all when they were very young. Since A was older he didn't get that teaching from Yoda as a child. O-W did his best to give that basics training himself, but failed to some degree. I could be wrong though.

Seeker
12-30-2011, 12:55 AM
Seriously, watch the reviews. Not only are they brilliant insights into the world of film-making, they're bloody hilarious.

Frenzy
12-30-2011, 02:42 AM
they're also hours long, yes?

Tomp
12-30-2011, 05:18 AM
I agree with many of his points, but the "humor" was funny for the first ten minutes then it was more irritating.

Some of the points he had really explained what it was that was lacking and at times illogical about the movies. Some of the points were overemphasized and nitpicked on things that weren't that big of a deal.

Overall it was a good analysis. I don't agree with everything he said, but most of it.

Firseal
12-30-2011, 07:02 AM
You are free to like or dislike the prequels as you will, but those with an open mind can find something in them that is enjoyable.

The problem people generally have with the prequels is that they are (in most cases) lower quality than the originals. Add to that the high quality of the original trilogy becoming mythic quality in our culture by the time the prequels came out that the averageness of Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones goes from being mild to a condemnation. So much so that when Revenge of the Sith came out, and it was actually good - maybe not that good, but a lot better than a lot of people give it credit for - it simply couldn't win.

But then, if you really need to condemn the movies for not being up to the legendary stature of the originals, no one can stop you and a whole lot of folk will join you. Sort of like entertainment witch trials. It'll be fun, you can even get torches and pitchforks and be just as much in the right as the good folk of Salem, 1692! Yes, this is hyperbole, but it is also a point. You want to scream that they aren't good enough and you want better if the filmmakers have to do this, but by doing so, you insure fewer and fewer filmmakers will ever attempt anything like it.

Or you can enjoy them for what they are (or simply not watch them anymore) and say, gently, 'Thank you, but I think you could do better.'

Or read Darths and Droids (http://www.darthsanddroids.net/), for the right way to both mock and find enjoyment in the Prequel movies.

Rand al'Fain
12-30-2011, 11:44 AM
In short:
Prequels-Better special effects and that sort ot thing, but horrible acting and mediocre to bad story.

Originals-Better acting and storyline, but special effects left something to be desired.

Firseal
12-30-2011, 01:21 PM
In short:
Prequels-Better special effects and that sort ot thing, but horrible acting and mediocre to bad story.

Originals-Better acting and storyline, but special effects left something to be desired.

Actually, the acting wasn't so much the problem. It wasn't stellar, mind, but the problems more likely lay with the director, the scriptwriter, and the editing room. The actors did the best they could with what they could (in most instances - would someone wake kid Anakin up, please?)

Seeker
12-30-2011, 02:32 PM
they're also hours long, yes?

Well, you don't have to watch em all at once. I'm surprised no one else on TL has heard of Red Letter Media.

Rand al'Fain
12-31-2011, 02:35 AM
Well, you don't have to watch em all at once. I'm surprised no one else on TL has heard of Red Letter Media.

I have. Just not really a fan.

Davian93
12-31-2011, 06:01 PM
You are free to like or dislike the prequels as you will, but those with an open mind can find something in them that is enjoyable.

The problem people generally have with the prequels is that they are (in most cases) lower quality than the originals. Add to that the high quality of the original trilogy becoming mythic quality in our culture by the time the prequels came out that the averageness of Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones goes from being mild to a condemnation. So much so that when Revenge of the Sith came out, and it was actually good - maybe not that good, but a lot better than a lot of people give it credit for - it simply couldn't win.

But then, if you really need to condemn the movies for not being up to the legendary stature of the originals, no one can stop you and a whole lot of folk will join you. Sort of like entertainment witch trials. It'll be fun, you can even get torches and pitchforks and be just as much in the right as the good folk of Salem, 1692! Yes, this is hyperbole, but it is also a point. You want to scream that they aren't good enough and you want better if the filmmakers have to do this, but by doing so, you insure fewer and fewer filmmakers will ever attempt anything like it.

Or you can enjoy them for what they are (or simply not watch them anymore) and say, gently, 'Thank you, but I think you could do better.'

Or read Darths and Droids (http://www.darthsanddroids.net/), for the right way to both mock and find enjoyment in the Prequel movies.

No, they just suck. And RedLetterMedia illustrates all the reasons why they suck.

AbbeyRoad
01-01-2012, 05:30 AM
No, they just suck. And RedLetterMedia illustrates some of the reasons why they suck.
Fixed for you.

There are plenty more reasons for why the Star Wars prequels sucked than could possibly be covered in 3 90-minute video reviews.

Firseal
01-01-2012, 08:06 AM
No, they just suck. And RedLetterMedia illustrates all the reasons why they suck.

As a neurosurgeon once told me - 'different strokes for different folks'. The cherished sentiment that the prequels are the worst cinema ever (to which people who have seen TRULY bad movies just laaaaaaugh) is so entrenched that it will take generations to disappate - or at least become irrelevant.

GonzoTheGreat
01-01-2012, 08:16 AM
There are plenty more reasons for why the Star Wars prequels sucked than could possibly be covered in 3 90-minute video reviews.
Even the internationally acknowledged master at it, George Lucas, typically needed 50% more time to achieve this goal.

Seeker
01-01-2012, 11:36 PM
#12: Obi-wan gets mad... and then I do.

So, we're back to the three guys we know nothing about fighting each other in a scene that we have no interest in. Their flawless choreography lacks all humanity and emotion. But then something happens; Qui-Gon dies and Obi-wan gets mad. Hey, maybe this will finally get good. Maybe I'll get emotionally involved.

You see, Obi-wan is pumped. He really wants to kick this guy's ass and then BAM... Oh, we're back to more highly choreographed fighting. It's like all of this was planned out ahead of time.

Hey, remember when Luke Skywalker got really pissed and snapped when Vader was taunting him? Remember how worked up and emotional he got? He just started wailing on Vader. There was no grace or complex choreography. He was just pounding him into submission, filled with rage. When you're worked up with emotion, you begin to lose your composure and control. You expose your humanity a little. Obi-wan should have done that just a bit.

In Empire, there's also very little complex choreography. Luke is just barely keeping up in his fight with Vader. Vader's basically toying with him; he could totally kick his ass at any minute but he holds back. You see, this was their first duel. There's a lot going on between the two characters outside of the fact that they're swinging swords at each other.

There was even a lot more going on at the end of Jedi. Luke was realizing that he was becoming his father and taking his place. And the Emperor was proving a point that hate and anger can be powerful weapons. You got things like temptation, anger, revelation, defiance, sacrifice and redemption. What's happening at the end of Phantom Menace? Three guys we don't care about are fighting each other over... something.

I gotta really stress this point that lightsaber duels have less to do with the fight itself but more so with the internalization of the characters. So, if you've ever said that the duel at the end of A New Hope was the worst one because it had bad fight choreography, then, I'm sorry, but you've missed the point entirely. It's more about moments like this.

http://heavyarmor.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/obi-wan-fight-01.jpg?w=640&h=272
"If you strike me down, I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."


And not this

http://www.varsity.co.uk/images/derived/article-objects/md5-db5dfb354474142de026ca3c9a856c11/751.jpeg

More about this.

http://www.tylershores.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/i_am_your_father.jpg
"I am your father."

And not this

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6f/DookuBZZZ.jpg

And more about... this.

http://www.jeditemplearchives.com/galleries/2010/Review_SCEmperorPalpatine/Review_SCEmperorPalpatine_still.jpg
"Fulfill your destiny and take your father's place at my side!"

And not this.

http://www.freewebs.com/the_jedi_temple-/General%20Grievous.JPG

Bryan Blaire
01-03-2012, 01:05 PM
Seriously, this topic again?

To Seeker's last post: #12...
He realizes that there is no duel at the end of A New Hope, right? I understand what the guy was getting at, but can he at least get his facts straight? There's no duel at the end of the movie, Luke is flying a freakin' star fighter against Pops and the biggest damn space-station ever.

Honestly, none of the 6 movies are all that fantastic and I love the original trilogy (anyone that's met me can attest to that). They are great sci-fi-fantasy for their effects at the time, which pale comparatively now, and for the lines Harrison Ford delivered, but most of the rest is simple derivative material from Jung's works mixed up with a little religiousity and some less than stellar acting by the entire rest of the cast except Frank Oz. Seriously, R2-D2 acts better most of the time than Leia does.

Davian93
01-03-2012, 02:10 PM
Obi-Wan and Vader's fight is far enough along in the movie to be considered "The end of the movie" for those purposes.

R2-D2 acts better most of the time than Leia does.


Cocaine is a helluva drug.

Basel Gill
01-03-2012, 04:51 PM
You are free to like or dislike the prequels as you will, but those with an open mind can find something in them that is enjoyable.

The problem people generally have with the prequels is that they are (in most cases) lower quality than the originals. Add to that the high quality of the original trilogy becoming mythic quality in our culture by the time the prequels came out that the averageness of Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones goes from being mild to a condemnation. So much so that when Revenge of the Sith came out, and it was actually good - maybe not that good, but a lot better than a lot of people give it credit for - it simply couldn't win.

But then, if you really need to condemn the movies for not being up to the legendary stature of the originals, no one can stop you and a whole lot of folk will join you. Sort of like entertainment witch trials. It'll be fun, you can even get torches and pitchforks and be just as much in the right as the good folk of Salem, 1692! Yes, this is hyperbole, but it is also a point. You want to scream that they aren't good enough and you want better if the filmmakers have to do this, but by doing so, you insure fewer and fewer filmmakers will ever attempt anything like it.

Or you can enjoy them for what they are (or simply not watch them anymore) and say, gently, 'Thank you, but I think you could do better.'

Or read Darths and Droids (http://www.darthsanddroids.net/), for the right way to both mock and find enjoyment in the Prequel movies.

Agreed. I consider myself "Star Wars generation". I grew up with it, begged for the toys for Christmas, watched the movies more times than I can count and I loved the prequels. Phantom Menace took about 2-3 watches before I likes it, but the other 2 I loved immediately.

For the same reason I wouldn't mind WoT outrigger books, when I watch or read about a world that is interesting, I want more of it. As long as it has some quality, I'll be open minded. Crap like the "Highlander" movie sequels would be an example of intolerable garbage.

The prequels allowed you to see more of the world which I just loved, especially Camino and Coruscant. They allowed you the chance to watch it all go down. We all knew the basic story, but it came to life for me, in many ways better than I expected. I just don't understand why they're so loathed.

Khoram
01-03-2012, 08:55 PM
Agreed. I consider myself "Star Wars generation". I grew up with it, begged for the toys for Christmas, watched the movies more times than I can count and I loved the prequels. Phantom Menace took about 2-3 watches before I likes it, but the other 2 I loved immediately.

For the same reason I wouldn't mind WoT outrigger books, when I watch or read about a world that is interesting, I want more of it. As long as it has some quality, I'll be open minded. Crap like the "Highlander" movie sequels would be an example of intolerable garbage.

The prequels allowed you to see more of the world which I just loved, especially Camino and Coruscant. They allowed you the chance to watch it all go down. We all knew the basic story, but it came to life for me, in many ways better than I expected. I just don't understand why they're so loathed.

Two words: Jar Jar...

There may be other reasons, but these two words are my biggest reason for disliking the prequels, as is I believe for others.

It's not that I disliked Phantom Menace or Attack of the Clones (Revenge of the Sith was pushing it) but I grew up watching the original trilogy. Jar Jar has got to be one of, if not the most hated character in the history of the Star Wars universe. Jar Jar ruined the prequels for me.

Although I did enjoy the choreography, I WAS 8 when Phantom Menace came out, so I wasn't clear-headed then (not that I'm saying I am, now ;)). That being said, I still could not get enough of original trilogy, and continued to watch those movies far more than the prequels. It's still the case today.

Seeker
01-03-2012, 09:39 PM
Honestly, none of the 6 movies are all that fantastic and I love the original trilogy (anyone that's met me can attest to that). They are great sci-fi-fantasy for their effects at the time, which pale comparatively now, and for the lines Harrison Ford delivered, but most of the rest is simple derivative material from Jung's works mixed up with a little religiousity and some less than stellar acting by the entire rest of the cast except Frank Oz. Seriously, R2-D2 acts better most of the time than Leia does.

While I agree that there is a big difference between The Empire Strikes Backand something cerebral like Good Night and Good Luck, the fact remains that there are good sci-fi movies and bad sci-fi movies. Good sci-fi movies have epic stories and larger than life characters, heroes that you can love and villains that you can love to hate. They have plot-lines that make sense for the most part and characters who behave like real people. The Original Star Wars films had all of these things; the Prequels had none of them.

Instead of the warm, good-natured and brave hero that we got in Luke Skywalker, we had the whiny, pissy, self-absorbed Anakin.

Instead of the roguish bad-ass of Han Solo, we had the stiff and remote Mace Windu.

Instead of the kindhearted father figure of Ben Kenobi, we got an emotionless block of wood in Obi-Wan Kenobi.(And yes, I use different names because there's no way that the block of wood in the Prequels is the same character as the sagely old man from the Originals. No amount of experience can make a man grow a personality).

And finally, instead of Darth Vader, who's mere presence radiates a sense of tension and unease, we got General Grievous, a wheezing, cartoonish buffoon who looks like he might fall apart if he coughs too hard.

The Emperor's plot to take over the galaxy had so many holes in it that the a moment's use of common sense would have undone all of Palpatine's machinations.

The fight scenes are sterile, boring and lacking tension or excitement. Unlike the saber duels of Empire or Jedi, which have a palpable sense of danger, the prequel fights play out like a scripted dance. In the Original Trilogy, large-scale battles like the escape from Hoth were played out from a personal angle, where we get to see Luke Skywalker go directly into the line of fire. In the Prequels, large-scale battles are shown from a "top-down" view where we can watch thousands of clones shoot thousands of droids. *Yawn.*

And we should stop blaming the actors. Ewan McGreggor, Natalie Portman and Hayden Christiansen are all very skilled in their craft. If you watch them in any movie that isn't Star Wars, you'll see that each of them can bring a character to life. No, the problem with the prequels was shitty shitty writing. Dialogue was treated as something to get out of the way, necessary exposition so we can get back to the explosions. And these are all my words, not Red Letter Media.

Finally, Carrie Fischer did an excellent job in all three films and so did Mark Hamil.