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Tercel
01-04-2012, 08:13 PM
There seem to have been quite a lot of hints (some of them rather unsubtle) that Callandor is particularly unique as a sa'angreal, and has a particularly special role to play in the final book.

I haven't seen much theorizing on this. What, if any, are the popular theories about it?

Min says Callandor is repeatedly described by the Prophecies as 'fearful'. She wonders why it would be called 'fearful' as there is no obvious justification for this epitaph.

Min sees a viewing of a black fist gripping the sword, and she worries Callandor will be 'used against' Rand or 'make him vulnerable to attack'.

Rand observes that Callandor is not the most powerful sa'angreal, and yet the Choedan Kal are not mentioned at all in the Prophecies, leading him to wonder: Why Callandor?

According to Cadsuane (and RJ in an interview), it has a manufacturing defect which means it doesn't prevent the user overdrawing on the Source like other sa'angreal do. RJ explained this defect was due to the haste with which it was produced during the War of Shadow. Cadsuane believes it has a second flaw which causes it to magnify the taint and thus drive the user temporarily insane (though with the taint no longer present is this a problem?).

Cadsuane and Min believe Callandor is flawed in some way more deeply than they know.

It seems highly likely that Rand will use Callandor in a circle with Nynaeve and Moiraine, with Moiraine guiding the flows.

Possible theory:
The flaw in Callandor that causes it to magnify the taint means that it can magnify the Dark One's power. ie that it can be used as a sa'angreal for the True Power! That would explain the vision of the black fist holding it.

eht slat meit
01-04-2012, 08:25 PM
Quoth William Blake:
Tyger! Tyger! burning bright
In the forests of the night,
What immortal hand or eye
Could frame thy fearful symmetry?

Pet Theory: Callandor is the Tyger. Few things in the world of Randland might be more awe/dread-inspiring (fearful) than watching a man pull his maximum potential of both True Source and Power at the same time, burning out both wielder and a certain Forsaken in the process.

Tercel
01-04-2012, 08:51 PM
Cadsuane's comment about Callandor magnifying the taint is a bit bizarre, because we know from the series that any angreal or sa'angreal that Rand uses to draw more of the One Power in turn caused him to receive more taint. Every time he used the Choedan Kal the feel of the One Power and the taint both greatly increasing was described. Therefore Cadsuane's comment makes me think that there is something particularly significant about Callandor in which it 'magnifies the taint' more than other angreal / sa'angreal. In other words, it has a particularly unusual ability to magnify the power of the Dark One.

I wonder if this is connected to the idea of 'corrupted prophecies'. There have been statements from both RJ and BS that there has been corruption in the prophecies, yet we have not really seen it. Many thought that the prophecies that Rand would 'kneel before the Crystal throne' and that he would 'bind the Nine Moons to serve him' were mutually exclusive and were indicative of corruption. Yet it seems highly likely the New Rand will go and bow humbly to the Seanchan and ask and receive their service at the Last Battle. Thus if these are not the corrupted prophecies, what are? Perhaps the ones concerning Callandor have been corrupted deliberately by the Shadow? If Callandor can be used as a Dark Sa'angreal, it makes sense that Ishamael had reason to corrupt the prophecies to ensure it was eventually brought to him.

Terez
01-04-2012, 09:15 PM
I think that some of the prophecies that appear to be about Callandor are actually about Justice. That's not to say that Callandor isn't important - just that this adds even more confusion to the issue of what role either sword will play.

The 'fearful blade' prophecy is one that I strongly suspect refers to Justice, partly because Rand tried to force its fulfillment by reasoning it out. In that sense, the prophecies are something of a trap for him. Moiraine wanted to do the same thing with the prophecy about Rand's journey to the Waste. The Shadow no doubt has many plans falling into that precise trap.
Into the heart he thrusts his sword,
into the heart, to hold their hearts.
Who draws it out shall follow after,
What hand can grasp that fearful blade?And so, I think this is more likely to have something to do with the events surrounding Rand's death, and the truce with the Seanchan.

Kimon
01-04-2012, 09:25 PM
Quoth William Blake:


Pet Theory: Callandor is the Tyger. Few things in the world of Randland might be more awe/dread-inspiring (fearful) than watching a man pull his maximum potential of both True Source and Power at the same time, burning out both wielder and a certain Forsaken in the process.

Blake is a dreadfully awful poet.

As for Callandor, while Excalibur (Caledfwlch in Welsh) is the obvious parallel, it might also be meant to draw a parallel with the tale of the Dolorous Stroke and the Spear of Longinus. Balin after all received a cursed sword by a damsel and was told that he would use it to kill his brother, Balan. While traveling, Balin kills the brother of King Pellam - the Fisher King, and when Pellam attempts to avenge his brother, Balin wounds him with the nearest weapon on hand, the Spear of Longinus, causing the land to fall into ruin and decay. Then wandering through the wasteland, Balin is forced to fight a nameless knight. The two kill each other, realizing too late that they were brothers. The sword was placed in a stone by Merlin, but later pulled out by Galahad.

There is another famous sword however that also has a somewhat similar name - Durandal, Roland's sword. It also had magical powers and was indestructible, and legends claim that it was embedded in a cliff wall.

It is probably pieces of a number of legends, but mostly of Excalibur, and probably, or at least hopefully, has nothing to do with William Blake.

eht slat meit
01-04-2012, 09:34 PM
Blake is a dreadfully awful poet.

Psht, no need to hate on Blake. The quote was free association based on 'fearful' and some minor shared elements. Minus the poetry, that's based in an actual theory involving the twice-dawning day prophecy.

Given the trope-busting trend of how Callandor's been handled in relation to Excalibur so far, it'd have to go by something less obvious than direct parallel, what with the whole 'sword that is not a sword' being drawn from a 'stone that is not a stone' theme.

Terez
01-04-2012, 09:41 PM
Pet Theory: Callandor is the Tyger. Few things in the world of Randland might be more awe/dread-inspiring (fearful) than watching a man pull his maximum potential of both True Source and Power at the same time, burning out both wielder and a certain Forsaken in the process.I don't know much about the Tyger (I'll have to read up on it), but as to the latter part, I doubt that will happen. If Rand uses the True Power again, it will be a vehicle for the Shadow to control him again. He's aware of that danger, so he seems to be avoiding it specifically. He remains somehow blissfully unaware of the true nature of the link between Moridin and himself. He seems aware that they are linked to the point that they see images of each other in their respective heads, but he doesn't seem to realize that his very thoughts are being influenced by Moridin's personality which is slowly seeping into his, and has been for a long time. This particular problem is the subject of quite a bit of prophecy and foreshadowing, beginning in TEOTW.

And so, it's more likely that this will be what trips him up in the end. It's hard to say whether or not that will have anything to do with Callandor when the time comes. I am thinking that Rand will avoid the disaster with Callandor by dying and severing the link with Moridin before he goes to Shayol Ghul. It works out for several reasons. No doubt Rand will succumb to Moridin some time before he dies, though, and it's possible he'll use the True Power then. Some people think that Rand will go to his death willingly and knowingly, like we saw in Egwene's Accepted test, where he begged her to kill him so they couldn't turn him to the Shadow. I think that Brandon was trying to build on the idea in TOM that there is some small part of Rand that realizes what's happening, but I think it's likely to remain a small part, and that someone else will have to kill him.

Really, there is support for both ideas. The 'Sheathing the Sword' thing might be something of a gun on the mantle, though it was touched on at Falme (a foreshadowing for the Arthur/Mordred conflict, but hardly the final one). So maybe, as per the prophecy above, Rand will kill himself with Justice. But then, there is strong foreshadowing and mythological basis for the idea that the Mordred figures will all have various roles in Rand's death. I think it will go something like this:

1. Demandred will almost kill Rand.

2. Fain/Mordred will be waiting at Shayol Ghul for Rand, and when Rand dies he's going to be pissed.

3. Moridin will 'consume' Rand (the word used both in a TEOTW foreshadowing and in the TOM dark prophecy) by merging with him (used in the same foreshadowing and another prophecy, a Min viewing), which started out with something like 'touching' (word used by the Min viewing and Rand's own description of what it was like). That will necessitate Rand's death, but Moridin won't kill him.

4. Gawyn, a strong Mordred parallel, will play some role in Rand's death, no doubt for Egwene's sake. This is Guinevere's betrayal and Mordred wrapped up into one. Gawyn also has a bit of Loki, as does Mat, and I imagine the list goes on. Gawyn has Bloodrings, and might also be able to get a medallion.

5. Moiraine said in TEOTW that she would destroy Rand herself before allowing the Shadow to have him. We know that Rand will almost surely fail without her. Most people seem to expect something lame, like she found out how to seal the Bore from the 'Finns. I expect it to be more along the lines of killing him. I also think her questions in TSR likely gave her this answer.

Galad is not quite as good a Mordred parallel as Gawyn, since Morgase is not his mother. (And Elayne is not a very good Mordred parallel either, though she can play a role if the medallion has anything to do with Gawyn's role.) Also, RJ said Galad and Rand weren't going to have a swordfight, and it's hard to see them fighting any other way. Maybe Galad will also play a role, but I don't see much foreshadowing for his involvement beyond the white shroud dream that Egwene had about him. That could be him using one of the Bloodrings. But again, no swordfight. I think it more likely that Galad will actually go to Shayol Ghul, and that he'll use his Bloodring there if he uses one at all. If only we knew what was in Verin's letter.

Terez
01-04-2012, 09:57 PM
Blake is a dreadfully awful poet.

As for Callandor, while Excalibur (Caledfwlch in Welsh) is the obvious parallel, it might also be meant to draw a parallel with the tale of the Dolorous Stroke and the Spear of Longinus. Balin after all received a cursed sword by a damsel and was told that he would use it to kill his brother, Balan. While traveling, Balin kills the brother of King Pellam - the Fisher King, and when Pellam attempts to avenge his brother, Balin wounds him with the nearest weapon on hand, the Spear of Longinus, causing the land to fall into ruin and decay. Then wandering through the wasteland, Balin is forced to fight a nameless knight. The two kill each other, realizing too late that they were brothers. The sword was placed in a stone by Merlin, but later pulled out by Galahad.

There is another famous sword however that also has a somewhat similar name - Durandal, Roland's sword. It also had magical powers and was indestructible, and legends claim that it was embedded in a cliff wall.

It is probably pieces of a number of legends, but mostly of Excalibur, and probably, or at least hopefully, has nothing to do with William Blake.One of the interesting things about Excalibur is that the scabbard had magical properties in some legends. Callandor doesn't have a proper scabbard, but Justice has a special one. It might have been made with the Power, and it might actually be a ter'angreal of some sort.

Now I'm wondering if Galad will be the one to draw Justice out...of Gawyn's heart? And if Moiraine balefires Rand, then Gawyn will come back to life...maybe only to be destroyed by the poison of the Bloodring. It can probably be Healed—since Healing wasn't known in Seanchan, they would have been unaware of that loophole—but will anyone Heal him? It probably depends on whether Rand was Dark Rand or not. He could be forgiven for accidentally sending Rand's soul to the Dark One (or trying to) since he's probably unaware of that particular danger, and he's probably unaware that balefire is an option.

Anyway, Galad obviously has a justice theme going on, which was somewhat heightened in TOM with the trial thing, and Morgase challenging his black-and-white approach. Furthermore, he's falling in love with Berelain, who is a direct descendant of Hawkwing (and Faile once wanted to shave her 'bald as an egg', clearly foreshadowing). And we know that Tuon will be looking for replacements for her lost family. No doubt she will actually prefer to add a line with a real claim to the family. The Seanchan find the Whitecloaks particularly offensive because they are not beholden to anybody.

Tercel
01-04-2012, 10:06 PM
The 'Sheathing the Sword' thing might be something of a gun on the mantle

Into the heart he thrusts his sword,
into the heart, to hold their hearts.
Who draws it out shall follow after,
What hand can grasp that fearful blade?I quite like the reinterpretation of this prophesy as Rand killing himself with the sword Justice, and then Logain taking up the sword and it's implied mantle of leadership in order to lead the world after the last battle.

I agree with your comment that the sword Justice counts as a 'fearful blade' perhaps more than Callandor. After all, there was a hundred years of fighting to try to reclaim Hawkwing's empire and his sword Justice is emblematic of it. What it represents to Randlanders is a bit like Perrin flying Manetheren's flag. I wonder what the Seanchan will make of it when Rand visits Tuon while wearing Hawkwing's sword? Will he trade it to her perhaps in exchange for her aid and agreement to his Peace?

Terez
01-04-2012, 10:14 PM
I quite like the reinterpretation of this prophesy as Rand killing himself with the sword Justice, and then Logain taking up the sword and it's implied mantle of leadership in order to lead the world after the last battle.This, I don't think will happen. I think Logain will certainly take command of the Asha'man, and his doing of it will be glorious in one way or another. He will probably kill Taim personally, and will probably save Androl and the gang from being turned to the Shadow.

That being said, it is my pet loony theory that Logain is Guaire Amalasan reborn, and that he remembers his past life just like Rand. But since being Guaire Amalasan is kind of cool, while being the Kinslayer is not, Logain didn't have quite the same reaction. In that case, Justice is probably his sword, taken from him by Hawkwing. That would explain the scabbard. I just don't see Logain being a world leader. I don't think that's what he wants either.

I agree with your comment that the sword Justice counts as a 'fearful blade' perhaps more than Callandor. After all, there was a hundred years of fighting to try to reclaim Hawkwing's empire and his sword Justice is emblematic of it. What it represents to Randlanders is a bit like Perrin flying Manetheren's flag. I wonder what the Seanchan will make of it when Rand visits Tuon while wearing Hawkwing's sword? Will he trade it to her perhaps in exchange for her aid and agreement to his Peace?I believe that Tuon will probably already have Justice and quite a bit of support from Rand's allies by the time he comes back from the dead, and I think it unlikely he will have much to do with that exchange. The prophecies say that he, specifically, will bind the east to the north, but they do not say that he will bind the two together. Only that it's necessary for him to win the Last Battle. I think that Mat and others are likely to be the main instruments in bringing the truce about.

eht slat meit
01-04-2012, 10:14 PM
I don't know much about the Tyger (I'll have to read up on it), but as to the latter part, I doubt that will happen.

No need. The Tyger was simply an off-the-cuff reference based on free-association. I can dredge up the theory that the legitimate part of that Pet Theory refers to, but I'm not sure where I buried it.

Arthurian Myth isn't really my bag, and I've been focusing instead on the Norse aspects of the books. Can't really comment on most of what you've said, other than to point out that since Rand carries the Power that is channeled through Callandor, he could be considered the Scabbard. Not sure that actually constitutes "useful" information though.

As far as Callandor is concerned, I think the key to understanding its purpose is to determine what it is and is not. It is a blade, and at the same time not. Given the appearance of a sword, and can turn on its wielder like one as well, but it isn't truly a sword, but a vessel for the Power.

In context of his statement to Egwene at the Hall that he is not the weapon he thought he was intended to be, it seems to frame Callandor as something else entirely, perhaps a conduit of Healing sufficient to amplify Rand's own mystical nature to a degree where it can remove the corruption from Blightlands.

kivo
01-05-2012, 12:48 AM
A handy threesome of users for Callandor would be whomever controls the mindtraps of Cyndane and Moghedien plus those two. Presently Moridin. I don't usually fancy the Body Swap theory, but when I do, I imagine Rand-inside-Moridin's-body utilizing Cyndane and Moghedien in this way.

Bonus feature of this: It would put a sweet little twist on Lanfear's suggestions that she and Lews Therin could defeat the Dark One together. :)

Terez
01-05-2012, 01:01 AM
The body-swap is, I think, largely unfounded. But they are merging (an entirely different thing). There's no evidence that either can control the other directly through the link, or read the other's thoughts. They can, however, get into each other's dreams.

Oneirist
01-05-2012, 12:45 PM
When I first read Min's viewing about Callandor being held by a black hand and it being used against Rand, I immediately recalled something about Arthur's other sword, Clarent, and Mordred stealing it and using it to kill him. I figure, given Rand's display at Maradon, Demandred would need such a sa'angreal in order to really put up a good fight, and it would fit nicely with Mesaana's little foreshadowing about how Demandred would "launch himself" at Rand if he got a sa'angreal. And since he's not likely to link and surrender control to anyone, Callandor's flaw would probably help along his downfall.

Terez
01-05-2012, 01:32 PM
Hmm, maybe Gawyn will steal Laman's sword. He needs a heron-mark, and presumably it's just lying around.

eht slat meit
01-05-2012, 01:41 PM
When I first read Min's viewing about Callandor being held by a black hand and it being used against Rand, I immediately recalled something about Arthur's other sword, Clarent, and Mordred stealing it and using it to kill him. I figure, given Rand's display at Maradon, Demandred would need such a sa'angreal in order to really put up a good fight, and it would fit nicely with Mesaana's little foreshadowing about how Demandred would "launch himself" at Rand if he got a sa'angreal. And since he's not likely to link and surrender control to anyone, Callandor's flaw would probably help along his downfall.

Wow, I'd mentioned that Arthurian myth wasn't really my bag, and boy does it show. I didn't know that the sword pulled from the stone had a name, and didn't realize that the Lady of the Lake had a name beyond the pair that I'm familiar with...

The Lady of the Lake is the name of several related characters who play parts in the Arthurian legend. These characters' roles include giving King Arthur his sword Excalibur, enchanting Merlin, and raising Lancelot after the death of his father. Different writers and copyists give her name variously as Nimue, Viviane, Elaine, Niniane, Nivian, Nyneve, Evienne and other variations.[1]

Kimon
01-05-2012, 05:25 PM
Wow, I'd mentioned that Arthurian myth wasn't really my bag, and boy does it show. I didn't know that the sword pulled from the stone had a name, and didn't realize that the Lady of the Lake had a name beyond the pair that I'm familiar with...

Elaine is a very common name in Arthurian legend, the most prominent of whom was Elaine of Corbenic who seduced Lancelot by pretending to be Guinevere. She bore him an important son - Galahad.

@Oneirist

When I first read Min's viewing about Callandor being held by a black hand and it being used against Rand, I immediately recalled something about Arthur's other sword, Clarent, and Mordred stealing it and using it to kill him. I figure, given Rand's display at Maradon, Demandred would need such a sa'angreal in order to really put up a good fight, and it would fit nicely with Mesaana's little foreshadowing about how Demandred would "launch himself" at Rand if he got a sa'angreal. And since he's not likely to link and surrender control to anyone, Callandor's flaw would probably help along his downfall.

We still don't know who has the fat little man angreal, probably Taim, but Demandred may be a possibility as well. The fat man was holding a sword...

Terez
01-05-2012, 05:28 PM
I think Taim was still answering to Demandred at that point, and so it's quite possible he would have given it to Demandred. I can't recall at the moment if Demandred ever wished in POV that he had an angreal, but I don't think he did. (If he had, we'd know he didn't have one.)

Tercel
01-05-2012, 05:52 PM
Hmm, obviously we are going to see something of Demandred in AMOL. There's been promise of a Demandred vs Rand show down for some time but it's never eventuated.

It looks to me like Callandor might be the 'Verin' of AMOL - the thing for which all hints are there but which no one has put them together in quite the right way. I wish BS had told us emphatically to theorize about Verin prior to the Verin reveal, as I think we might have been able to work it out if given the hint that it was going to be important. It would probably be worth asking Brandon if we need to be theorizing about the role of Callandor, and if the hints in the books are sufficient for guessing correctly.

Terez
01-05-2012, 06:14 PM
Well, I think we all knew Verin was going to be important. RJ just put it on hold for so long that we gave up on trying to figure it out.

Sorting out Callandor is difficult, but we do know a number of things about it. I think "Light is held before the infinite void, and all that he is can be seized" is probably in reference to Callandor. I just think that it's only a real danger if Rand goes to Shayol Ghul before he dies and severs the link with Moridin, and with the way he's going, it looks like he plans on doing exactly that. But then, it may be that the 'infinite void' is portable, and that Rand has held Callandor before that void once before already, so perhaps Rand will face Moridin in his True Power glory at, say, the Black Tower. We know that Logain's rise is a direct consequence of Rand's death. Demandred is probably going to shine in the planning of the Caemlyn battle (which will be the crux of why Mat needed those memories, I think), but I don't expect him to manage anything impressive against Rand.

GonzoTheGreat
01-06-2012, 04:57 AM
I think "Light is held before the infinite void, and all that he is can be seized" is probably in reference to Callandor.
Callandor and the DO.

Callandor supposed makes a man more susceptible to the Taint, which, as we now know, is the DO's own form of Compulsion. So if (when) Rand faces the DO with Callandor in his hands, then the DO will be able to take control of Rand. At which point killing Rand will be the only remaining option to leave any hope for the Light, and Alivia will do that. She will then be balefired, and Rand will now approach the DO without Callandor.

Ishamael will then shock everyone by stating "Rand, you are my father", Rand will shout "No!" and throw the DO into the Pit of Doom. Then RaT will die of his wounds, and the Philosopher Reformed, having converted back to the Light, will take control of the Aes Sedai Reborn (ASR). Both Egwene and Logain will accept this.

Note: the events in the previous paragraph are still a bit speculative. Some details may turn out different, if narrative necessity demands it.

Dajoran
01-06-2012, 06:57 AM
I have an incredibly loony idea right here – but fear of much pointing and Nelson-esque ‘Hawhaw’ing will dissuade me from writing it up right this very second.

So, I will ask you all these questions three, to better my knowledge of course (you will hopefully see where my mind is right now)–

Is Callandor’s flaw its lack of a buffer – or its ability to be used with the True Power - or both?

If ‘all that he is can be seized’ – does that mean that the True Power is not only analogous to the True Source, but is also not separate from the Dark One – i.e. ‘IT IS HIM’?

Any patch on the bore of the Dark One’s prison will have a flaw – is the general consensus that Rand for a true sealing will have to create a new prison for the Dark One?



[EDIT]

BONUS QUESTION:

How is the idea of one's strength in the True Power held? - Say - is it possible to take as much TP into yourself as needed without 'burning out'?

Weird Harold
01-06-2012, 01:22 PM
Is Callandor’s flaw its lack of a buffer – or its ability to be used with the True Power - or both?

The former. The latter is an effect of the flaw, rather the the flaw itself

If ‘all that he is can be seized’ – does that mean that the True Power is not only analogous to the True Source, but is also not separate from the Dark One – i.e. ‘IT IS HIM’?

According to LTT, the DO, the True Power, and the Taint are all one and the same. His exclamation when Rand balefired Semirhage is considered confirmation of the belief (held by many) that this is the case.

Any patch on the bore of the Dark One’s prison will have a flaw – is the general consensus that Rand for a true sealing will have to create a new prison for the Dark One?

Not that I'm aware of. The "general consensus" seems to be that the Pattern is the DO's Prison and Rand can't destroy/remake the Pattern because He is inside/Part of the Pattern and (per the BWB) nothing inside the Pattern can destroy the Pattern.

How is the idea of one's strength in the True Power held? - Say - is it possible to take as much TP into yourself as needed without 'burning out'?
IIRC, the answer to this question is in the interview database; it is not possible to burn out using the TP.

Dajoran
01-06-2012, 01:33 PM
Lots and lots of awesome answers

Thanks very muchly Weird Harold. The reason I asked is that I seemingly end up more confused than most when I search for answers.

By my questions you can probably see where I am going with something, I will need more time to prepare it, but I will return later with a barebones version of a theory I'm working on; when I get home of course. (The juicy theory I am going to submit to the site proper you see.)

Marie Curie 7
01-06-2012, 05:22 PM
Is Callandor’s flaw its lack of a buffer – or its ability to be used with the True Power - or both?
The former. The latter is an effect of the flaw, rather the the flaw itself

First, the lack of buffer and magnification of the taint (before the Cleansing) were the known flaws in Callandor. However, we know that in TOM, Min was worrying about the possibility of other flaws. From the TOM glossary:

TITLE: Towers of Midnight
CHAPTER: Glossary

Callandor: The Sword That Is Not a Sword, the Sword That Cannot Be Touched. A crystal sword once held in the Stone of Tear, it is a powerful sa'angreal for use by male channelers. It has known flaws: It lacks the buffer that makes sa'angreal safe to use, and magnified the taint. Other flaws are suspected.

Second, when has it been stated that Callandor may be used with the True Power? Either I don't remember this (which is of course entirely possible) or it's just speculation. However, we know at least that angreal made for use with the One Power cannot also be used with the True Power:

Wotmania Interview 2004

Q: Can Moridin use a male angreal if he channels the True Power?
RJ: No.

Since a sa'angreal is effectively a more powerful angreal, I would assume that the same would be true for Callandor (unless this is the unknown flaw).


If ‘all that he is can be seized’ – does that mean that the True Power is not only analogous to the True Source, but is also not separate from the Dark One – i.e. ‘IT IS HIM’?
According to LTT, the DO, the True Power, and the Taint are all one and the same. His exclamation when Rand balefired Semirhage is considered confirmation of the belief (held by many) that this is the case.

Well, except that both RJ and Brandon were asked about this and made a distinction between the Dark One, the True Power, and the taint:

Letter to Paul Ward from RJ - March 2000

Q: (paraphrased) Is the DO pure TP? Why does the Creator ignore Randland except to talk to Rand at the end of TEotW?

RJ: No, the Dark One is not pure True Power. Who says the Creator takes little interest in the activities of mankind? And I will neither confirm nor deny that the Creator spoke to Rand.

RJ: The taint and the True Power are both manifestations of the Dark One -- they are the same substance, but those who access it are not destroyed in the same way.

Azral Hanan on Twitter - 29 July 2010 4:15 am

Azral: Are the taint and the True Power the same?

Brandon: No, they are different.

Driving Mr. Sanderson (from Half Moon Bay to San Jose), 21 November 2009 - Matt Hatch reporting

Matt: Ok, so, what is then the nature of the Dark One's relationship with the True Power? In other words...is he the Power or it is separate like the One Power?

Brandon: When people bored into his prison they were searching for a new source of power, they found him. Alright? Now, that leaves a strong implication that the True Power is the essence of the Dark One. The True Power when it is used rips apart the Pattern to rebuild it as it desires. The True Power is very destructive to the Pattern. It leaves scars on the Pattern. Robert Jordan said in an interview or maybe it was actually in the books, when you make a gateway with the True Power you are actually ripping a hole in the Pattern and going somewhere else. When you are using the True Power that is what you are doing, it is contrary to the Pattern. That is not a direct answer to your question but I think there are enough implications in there that certain things can be discussed.


Any patch on the bore of the Dark One’s prison will have a flaw – is the general consensus that Rand for a true sealing will have to create a new prison for the Dark One?

Not that I'm aware of. The "general consensus" seems to be that the Pattern is the DO's Prison and Rand can't destroy/remake the Pattern because He is inside/Part of the Pattern and (per the BWB) nothing inside the Pattern can destroy the Pattern.

Regardless of what is believed about the nature of the Dark One's prison, the point is, I think, that Herid Fel said 'have to clear rubble before you build', which implies that the prison must be sealed anew and not just re-patched. RJ explains:

Barnes and Noble chat 11 November 1997

Brandon from Mission Viejo: Mr. Jordan, it's fairly common knowledge that the Dark One was bound by the Creator outside of the Pattern at the moment of creation. Would it then be safe to assume, after concepts brought to light in the new release, that the world before the opening of the prison never knew true evil? If so, then was each Age before the opening of the Age of Legends different facets of some utopia? As well, without major conflict between good and evil, what caused ages to pass? Thanks.

RJ: Given that time is cyclic, you must assume that there is a time when the prison that holds the Dark One is whole and unbroken. There is a time when a hole is drilled into that prison and it is thus open to that degree. And there is a time when the opening has been patched in a makeshift manner. But following this line, the cyclic nature of time means that we have at some time in the future inevitably a whole and unbroken prison again. Unless, of course, the Dark One breaks free, in which case all bets are off -- kick over the table and run for the window.

This is essentially what Fel tells Rand in LOC 18.


How is the idea of one's strength in the True Power held? - Say - is it possible to take as much TP into yourself as needed without 'burning out'?
IIRC, the answer to this question is in the interview database; it is not possible to burn out using the TP.

Budapest Q&A, April 2003

RJ: Yeah, you could burn out with the True Power.

Q: Only True Power, or One Power too?

RJ: With the True Power as well as the One Power you can burn out.

Dajoran
01-10-2012, 09:02 AM
So... we are saying that my theory will be pants... I understand... I didn't even like it anyway.

Jist of it was - Rand uses Callandor to channel all that He is... something something... Fain sidestepping the pattern creates a new lockout from the pattern (but is still bound by the pattern)... blah blah... Mashadar... yadda yadda... Rands wound... hippity hoppity... Dark One sealed...

There was gonna be quotes from the book and everything...

Zombie Sammael
01-10-2012, 09:35 AM
So... we are saying that my theory will be pants... I understand... I didn't even like it anyway.

Jist of it was - Rand uses Callandor to channel all that He is... something something... Fain sidestepping the pattern creates a new lockout from the pattern (but is still bound by the pattern)... blah blah... Mashadar... yadda yadda... Rands wound... hippity hoppity... Dark One sealed...

There was gonna be quotes from the book and everything...

Best. Theory. Ever.

On a serious note, I'd caution against emphasising too strongly that the DO, the taint, and the TP are entirely different things. The taint and the TP are both said to be manifestations of the DO, and the TP is said to be the "essence" of the DO. However, it's obvious that the TP as channeled isn't alive and conscious as the DO is, anymore than Saidar is, and the taint wasn't "alive" either. Nevertheless, they are obviously very closely connected. I don't think the DO could be channeled into Callandor in that way, though.

Dajoran
01-10-2012, 09:54 AM
I don't think the DO could be channeled into Callandor in that way, though.

See that's where you're wrong! You see that is why Callandor is made from clear crystal, so you can see when it's all full up with the Dark One!

...

...

The exit's over here right?

Zombie Sammael
01-10-2012, 09:59 AM
See that's where you're wrong! You see that is why Callandor is made from clear crystal, so you can see when it's all full up with the Dark One!

...

...

The exit's over here right?

Have you ever met Felix?

Dajoran
01-10-2012, 10:12 AM
I had to do a search for Felix - I admit my ignorance to who this person is.

I have to say though - what a legend - I didn't even consider that Tenobia and Beslan would be soulmates.

Terez
01-10-2012, 11:01 AM
Just before ZS posted I retweeted one of his gems:

@Terez27 The whole Couladin, Murandin, Sevanna narrative storyline in a way is foreshadowing for Rand, Mat, Aviendha's future relationship.

Zombie Sammael
01-10-2012, 11:14 AM
Just before ZS posted I retweeted one of his gems:

We need to get him back on here. Perhaps not posting ALL the time, but this board has a serious Felix-deficiency of late.

Lupusdeusest
01-10-2012, 11:49 AM
We need to get him back on here. Perhaps not posting ALL the time, but this board has a serious Felix-deficiency of late.

I miss the constant involvement of Luca and capes.
And bits of words.

Weird Harold
01-10-2012, 12:09 PM
Second, when has it been stated that Callandor may be used with the True Power? Either I don't remember this (which is of course entirely possible) or it's just speculation. However, we know at least that angreal made for use with the One Power cannot also be used with the True Power:

I should have qualified that assertion with, "If callandor CAN be used with the TP,,,."

No properly constructed *'angreal can amplify TP. But Callandor is not properly constructed and its known flaw amplifies the Taint -- which is related to the TP.

Well, except that both RJ and Brandon were asked about this and made a distinction between the Dark One, the True Power, and the taint:

One can make a distinction between a person, that person's blood, and a bloodstain, but the DNA is the same. The TP is NOT the DO entire, but LTT saw no distinction between the TP and what he could perceive of the DO when he sealed the Bore.

I have always seen the relationship between the Taint and the TP as analogous to the relationship between an oil slick and an oil spill -- more quantity than kind.

Regardless of what is believed about the nature of the Dark One's prison, the point is, I think, that Herid Fel said 'have to clear rubble before you build', which implies that the prison must be sealed anew and not just re-patched. RJ explains:



"Clearing away the rubble" is an answer to why one might break the Seals, not a suggestion that the prison be reconstructed from the foundation up. The Seven Seals are the "rubble" -- analogous to the blue tarps put over roof damage until more permanent (and un-noticeable) repairs can be done. One doesn't rebuild an aentire structure to repair a roof.

suttree
01-10-2012, 02:00 PM
Just before ZS posted I retweeted one of his gems:

Thank you Terez, that was pretty incredible. Think you know how fond I am of these nuggets from old Dida/Felix. Is he on one of his "harassment" boycotts again?

Terez
01-10-2012, 02:22 PM
Thank you Terez, that was pretty incredible. Think you know how fond I am of these nuggets from old Dida/Felix. Is he on one of his "harassment" boycotts again?Yes, Theoryland mods are, of course, Nazis.