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Terez
01-10-2012, 02:57 AM
Fox really flew the coop (http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/01/06/my-lesbian-daughter-bible-and-sex/) with this one.

My Lesbian Daughter, the Bible, and Sex

Regarding Pastor Mark Driscoll’s Fox News.com opinion piece, “What the Bible Really Says About Sex (http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/01/03/what-bible-really-says-about-sex/),” dated January 3, 2012, I agree with him on many points. There was a time when I agreed with him on all points.

I am an evangelical Christian who, I am sorry to say, used to be one of the "don’t-confuse-me-with-facts-because-my-mind-is-made-up" type of Christian.

My world was rocked to its core the night my 37-year old daughter called to tell me she is gay. Did I run out to find a gay parade to march in? No. It was a painful process for both of us.

In my beating on Heaven’s door, telling God He had to change her, He instead changed me. It seems that He was far more disturbed about my lack of love than He was about her homosexuality. I have had to rethink many things since starting this journey, including some things I knew (or thought I knew) about the Bible.

Pastor Driscoll shares “seven sex essentials from the Bible,” and I would like to address “3. Marriage is for one man and one woman by God’s design,” and “5. Sex outside of marriage is a sin.”

When I hear terms like “God’s design” and “Biblical marriage” I have to wonder who decides these things.

Our cultural adaptation of marriage has certainly evolved through the ages—had God not intervened, Joseph could have had Mary stoned to death for being pregnant with a child that was not his. (An engagement at that time was considered the same as a marriage.)

That is just one example—so many books could be written on the history of marriage. Yet we keep a death grip on the scriptures that suit us—and the translation of those scriptures becomes more a matter of tradition, opinion and convenience than the Word of God.

The hypocrisy of a Christian parent who shrugs her shoulders over one child’s “living in sin” and says, “What’s a mother to do,” but goes to pieces when she hears of her daughter’s homosexuality, is appalling. I was that mother.

If one can find anything amusing in all this, it is that those who are upset about sex outside of marriage are the same ones who are opposed to marriage equality.

The principles for heterosexual marriage are the same for same-sex marriage—love, commitment, faithfulness, loyalty, honor and respect. How can we deny that to anyone?

My daughter and her partner were married in 2004 and I couldn’t ask for a better spouse for my daughter, or daughter-in-law for me. However, my attitude traveling to the wedding was far different from my attitude on the trip home. God attends gay weddings. Who knew?

People have debated scriptures over the issues of gay marriage and homosexuality until they are red in the face—red because both sides are so angry.

When I asked a wise friend how she reconciled the scriptures with her daughter’s homosexuality, she said, “I can’t. So I just let God sort it out.” I took her advice and I learned things about God I would never have known if I were still telling Him what His scriptures mean.

If we spent as much time obeying God’s two greatest commandments, which are that we love Him and love our neighbors as ourselves, and less time policing everyone who is different from us, imagine what a world it would be.

Two years ago, after 39 years as a Christian who thought she knew the meaning of the scriptures and the mind of God, I asked myself a serious, life-changing question. What if I’m wrong?


Shari Johnson is author of the forthcoming book, "Above All Things" which will be published by Changing Lives Press (http://www.changinglivespress.com/)in June 2012.

GonzoTheGreat
01-10-2012, 03:47 AM
Two years ago, after 39 years as a Christian who thought she knew the meaning of the scriptures and the mind of God, I asked myself a serious, life-changing question. What if I’m wrong?
I thought that one of the defining features of Christianity was that no Christian could ever be wrong about anything whatsoever at all. :confused:

Ivhon
01-10-2012, 06:14 AM
Good read! Always love a reminder that it is possible to be both devout and tolerant.

DaiShan1981
01-10-2012, 06:57 AM
The world would be a better place if more people would be willing to re-evaluate their beliefs, instead of placing them above the love for their friends and family.

But I think if not always, then most of the time people who get a change of heart like this actually have to go through this process with a loved one. So let's throw the gay community some support here; changing overly zealous idiots one at a time! :)

Seeker
01-10-2012, 10:59 AM
I'm surprised Fox printed it.

Davian93
01-10-2012, 11:03 AM
In an absolute "shocker" the comments are locked on this Foxnews article. Seemingly every somewhat reasonable article Foxnews posts has the comments locked where their wingnut articles always open the floor for the lowest form of internet posters (those who actually post comments on Foxnews articles...a delicious mix of racism and ignorance typically).

Terez
01-10-2012, 11:09 AM
Yes, I noticed that too.

Davian93
01-10-2012, 11:12 AM
Yes, I noticed that too.

When I'm really bored, I troll in Foxnews Comments threads....just for the LULZ

Cor Shan
01-10-2012, 02:05 PM
Well that was perfectly reasonable.

Relevant Australian Ad:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TBd-UCwVAY

Basel Gill
01-10-2012, 04:51 PM
Fox really flew the coop (http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/01/06/my-lesbian-daughter-bible-and-sex/) with this one.

My Lesbian Daughter, the Bible, and Sex

Regarding Pastor Mark Driscoll’s Fox News.com opinion piece, “What the Bible Really Says About Sex (http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/01/03/what-bible-really-says-about-sex/),” dated January 3, 2012, I agree with him on many points. There was a time when I agreed with him on all points.

I am an evangelical Christian who, I am sorry to say, used to be one of the "don’t-confuse-me-with-facts-because-my-mind-is-made-up" type of Christian.

My world was rocked to its core the night my 37-year old daughter called to tell me she is gay. Did I run out to find a gay parade to march in? No. It was a painful process for both of us.

In my beating on Heaven’s door, telling God He had to change her, He instead changed me. It seems that He was far more disturbed about my lack of love than He was about her homosexuality. I have had to rethink many things since starting this journey, including some things I knew (or thought I knew) about the Bible.

Pastor Driscoll shares “seven sex essentials from the Bible,” and I would like to address “3. Marriage is for one man and one woman by God’s design,” and “5. Sex outside of marriage is a sin.”

When I hear terms like “God’s design” and “Biblical marriage” I have to wonder who decides these things.

Our cultural adaptation of marriage has certainly evolved through the ages—had God not intervened, Joseph could have had Mary stoned to death for being pregnant with a child that was not his. (An engagement at that time was considered the same as a marriage.)

That is just one example—so many books could be written on the history of marriage. Yet we keep a death grip on the scriptures that suit us—and the translation of those scriptures becomes more a matter of tradition, opinion and convenience than the Word of God.

The hypocrisy of a Christian parent who shrugs her shoulders over one child’s “living in sin” and says, “What’s a mother to do,” but goes to pieces when she hears of her daughter’s homosexuality, is appalling. I was that mother.

If one can find anything amusing in all this, it is that those who are upset about sex outside of marriage are the same ones who are opposed to marriage equality.

The principles for heterosexual marriage are the same for same-sex marriage—love, commitment, faithfulness, loyalty, honor and respect. How can we deny that to anyone?

My daughter and her partner were married in 2004 and I couldn’t ask for a better spouse for my daughter, or daughter-in-law for me. However, my attitude traveling to the wedding was far different from my attitude on the trip home. God attends gay weddings. Who knew?

People have debated scriptures over the issues of gay marriage and homosexuality until they are red in the face—red because both sides are so angry.

When I asked a wise friend how she reconciled the scriptures with her daughter’s homosexuality, she said, “I can’t. So I just let God sort it out.” I took her advice and I learned things about God I would never have known if I were still telling Him what His scriptures mean.

If we spent as much time obeying God’s two greatest commandments, which are that we love Him and love our neighbors as ourselves, and less time policing everyone who is different from us, imagine what a world it would be.

Two years ago, after 39 years as a Christian who thought she knew the meaning of the scriptures and the mind of God, I asked myself a serious, life-changing question. What if I’m wrong?


Shari Johnson is author of the forthcoming book, "Above All Things" which will be published by Changing Lives Press (http://www.changinglivespress.com/)in June 2012.

THIS. Good read.

"I thought that one of the defining features of Christianity was that no Christian could ever be wrong about anything whatsoever at all."-Gonzo

I really hope that was drama just for effect. Everyone with any sense knows that practicioners of a faith are the LAST source you want to look for as an example of what it should be.

Res_Ipsa
01-10-2012, 08:02 PM
Everyone with any sense knows that practicioners of a faith are the LAST source you want to look for as an example of what it should be.

Would it not be better to say that it is the loudmouths of a faith that give the rest a bad name?

Terez
01-10-2012, 08:37 PM
Probably more accurate to say that about 90% of practitioners give the faith a bad name. Practitioners meaning people who actually go to church every week.

GonzoTheGreat
01-11-2012, 03:56 AM
Would it not be better to say that it is the loudmouths of a faith that give the rest a bad name?
Maybe. But then, Christians who actually know their Bible will be aware of the following line:
Mark|4:23 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

So for a Christian, being a loudmouth is actually mandatory. Those who aren't loudmouths are not good Christians, as they do not give those with ears the opportunity to hear.

Zaela Sedai
01-11-2012, 08:13 AM
Probably more accurate to say that about 90% of practitioners give the faith a bad name. Practitioners meaning people who actually go to church every week.

That has got to be one of the most horrible things I've ever seen you write. I'm really hoping you were at least being mildly sarcastic.

Terez
01-11-2012, 08:15 AM
That has got to be one of the most horrible things I've ever seen you write. I'm really hoping you were at least being mildly sarcastic.No, not really. Why is it horrible?

Davian93
01-11-2012, 08:15 AM
That has got to be one of the most horrible things I've ever seen you write. I'm really hoping you were at least being mildly sarcastic.

Well, she is in the South...given my personal experiences with southern baptists, I'd guess that her number is pretty accurate.

fdsaf3
01-11-2012, 08:25 AM
I've said it before and I'll say it again: the current generation ages 18-30 or (the upper boundary is fuzzy) should be called Generation Apathy. We are far more accepting and tolerant of homosexuality and drug use, so it's really just a matter of time until gay marriage and marijuana are legalized. The problem with this generation is that since we are so apathetic as a whole, we won't really band together to institute these changes. The movement will coalesce slowly, and eventually the tipping point will be reached. But it'll take a while, and until then draconian policies against gay marriage and enforcing drug laws will continue to be in effect by the older, more socially conservative, generation.

Terez
01-11-2012, 08:58 AM
Well, she is in the South...given my personal experiences with southern baptists, I'd guess that her number is pretty accurate.It's not just the Southern Baptists really. The Methodists and the Presbyterians pride themselves on not being quite as far-right as the Southern Baptists (and the Catholics), but even still you have serious contradictions when it comes to what Jesus said about loving your neighbor and what he said about money, being rich, etc. They're all hardcore Republicans; it's just a matter of whether or not they consider themselves primarily social or economic 'conservatives'. (Read: neoliberals.) Polls show that most regular church attenders are Republicans; that tells me all I need to know.

Crispin's Crispian
01-11-2012, 10:50 AM
Maybe. But then, Christians who actually know their Bible will be aware of the following line:
Mark|4:23 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

So for a Christian, being a loudmouth is actually mandatory. Those who aren't loudmouths are not good Christians, as they do not give those with ears the opportunity to hear.

Then again, you should read Matthew 6:1-8. Jesus doesn't like the self-righteous nor the loud in prayer.

GonzoTheGreat
01-11-2012, 10:59 AM
Then again, you should read Matthew 6:1-8. Jesus doesn't like the self-righteous nor the loud in prayer.
A conundrum which can be solved easily, I can happily inform you, by not being a Christian. :p

Terez
01-11-2012, 11:00 AM
That bit came up in a debate on my local newspaper about someone named Tim Tebow. I have no idea who he is and don't care.

Zombie Sammael
01-11-2012, 11:02 AM
Then again, you should read Matthew 6:1-8. Jesus doesn't like the self-righteous nor the loud in prayer.

Ah! So he wants people to listen really, really carefully. Anyone with ears, apparently. So now we know discrimination against the deaf and hard of hearing is enshrined in the Bible!

Davian93
01-11-2012, 11:07 AM
That bit came up in a debate on my local newspaper about someone named Tim Tebow. I have no idea who he is and don't care.

He's an obnoxious and fairly untalented QB for the Denver Broncos who genuflects after every single play he makes.

Crispin's Crispian
01-11-2012, 12:14 PM
Ah! So he wants people to listen really, really carefully. Anyone with ears, apparently. So now we know discrimination against the deaf and hard of hearing is enshrined in the Bible!

Verily.

Crispin's Crispian
01-11-2012, 12:17 PM
He's an obnoxious and fairly untalented QB for the Denver Broncos who genuflects after every single play he makes.

Oh yeah? Here's proof that he's the Chosen One.

Tim Tebow racks up some miraculous 3:16 stats (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2012/01/tim-tebow-racks-up-some-316-stats-/1)

Basel Gill
01-11-2012, 07:52 PM
Maybe. But then, Christians who actually know their Bible will be aware of the following line:
Mark|4:23 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

So for a Christian, being a loudmouth is actually mandatory. Those who aren't loudmouths are not good Christians, as they do not give those with ears the opportunity to hear.

Seriously? Someone with an "open mind", to quote a popular colloquialism, might say that the "man" was meant to hear what the other person said and observe what he did as a "Christian". This does not always mean preaching or being preached to.

GonzoTheGreat
01-12-2012, 04:16 AM
Seriously? Someone with an "open mind", to quote a popular colloquialism, might say that the "man" was meant to hear what the other person said and observe what he did as a "Christian". This does not always mean preaching or being preached to.
Ah, but if you have an open mind in that sense, then you're already a commie liberal, aren't you? A lot of flavors of Christianity have big reservations about that kind of attitude.

Basel Gill
01-12-2012, 12:32 PM
Then I hope its a good thing that I'm not like that, and unapologetic at that.

Basel Gill
01-12-2012, 12:33 PM
An yes, on many "moral" issues, I am as liberal as anyone, although I don't engage in those behaviors myself.

Tomp
01-12-2012, 02:03 PM
The word "gay" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtaPaQwSQPA ;)

Bryan Blaire
01-13-2012, 09:16 AM
Wonder if the story would have been any different if this had been a son, rather than a daughter, given that there still seems to be somewhat of a double standard between male and female homosexuality, with giving a slightly bigger "pass" to female homosexuals in our society.

Tomp
01-15-2012, 07:44 AM
This is a somewhat appropriate place to put this.

A swedish comedy group (Grotesco) did a satirical song on gays. It has english subtitles, so enjoy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vx7p21hrZ6s

DaiShan1981
01-16-2012, 11:40 AM
Wonder if the story would have been any different if this had been a son, rather than a daughter, given that there still seems to be somewhat of a double standard between male and female homosexuality, with giving a slightly bigger "pass" to female homosexuals in our society.
It's because one kind is hot, and the other kind is not? :-P
Honestly I think there's a core of truth in there; it's most often men who seem to have the strongest thinking-from-the-gut reaction to homosexuality. Because whatever reason they tell you, nobody can convince me that it isn't ultimately rooted in simple gut-feeling that it's "icky".
Two guys making out make guys go "eww, I wouldn't want to do that", two girls making out make guys go "what if I got to join in?"

Zombie Sammael
01-16-2012, 12:04 PM
It's because one kind is hot, and the other kind is not? :-P
Honestly I think there's a core of truth in there; it's most often men who seem to have the strongest thinking-from-the-gut reaction to homosexuality. Because whatever reason they tell you, nobody can convince me that it isn't ultimately rooted in simple gut-feeling that it's "icky".
Two guys making out make guys go "eww, I wouldn't want to do that", two girls making out make guys go "what if I got to join in?"

This is why gay rights for both sexes is inherently tied up with gender equality, or in other words, why it's a feminist issue.

GonzoTheGreat
01-16-2012, 12:22 PM
This is why gay rights for both sexes is inherently tied up with gender equality, or in other words, why it's a feminist issue.
Nah, feminist lesbians are no fun.

Terez
01-16-2012, 12:25 PM
It's because one kind is hot, and the other kind is not? :-PIf you are a man, that is...

GonzoTheGreat
01-16-2012, 12:27 PM
To go back to the beginning:
My world was rocked to its core the night my 37-year old daughter called to tell me she is gay. Did I run out to find a gay parade to march in? No. It was a painful process for both of us.
I'm a bit surprised that everyone took this for granted. Based on what I know of it (second and third hand accounts), most people figure out at an earlier age whether they like boys or girls more.

Terez
01-16-2012, 12:31 PM
This is why gay rights for both sexes is inherently tied up with gender equality, or in other words, why it's a feminist issue.Historically, societies that afforded women rights have been less likely to discriminate against homosexuality. Certain societies allowed homosexuality so long as it didn't involve an adult man playing the 'female' role in sex, which is why you often see a tradition of pederasty in ancient or non-industrial cultures. It's a bit of a generalization, but still a noticeable trend. It was acceptable and even encouraged for adult men to play the female role among the Druids, or so the story goes.

Gilshalos Sedai
01-16-2012, 01:43 PM
To go back to the beginning:

I'm a bit surprised that everyone took this for granted. Based on what I know of it (second and third hand accounts), most people figure out at an earlier age whether they like boys or girls more.

Doesn't mean she figured out how to tell her obviously prejudiced mother.

Zombie Sammael
01-16-2012, 02:26 PM
Nah, feminist lesbians are no fun.

Tell me, Gonzo, why are women's rights the one issue on which you aren't totally left wing? It's always puzzled me.

Res_Ipsa
01-16-2012, 02:30 PM
Doesn't mean she figured out how to tell her obviously prejudiced mother.

Clearly not enough adjectives to describe how hateful, bigoted, wrongheaded, homophobic, close-minded intolerant, narrow-minded, stubborn, simple-minded, proscriptive, backwards, biased, Republican, hick, bible thumper, draconian, medieval, stuffy, and my personal favorite, illiberal this mother is.

It just strikes me that when you control the definitions, and by extension, the inferences, of an argument, you control the argument. It is a very good method, I approve.

Gilshalos Sedai
01-16-2012, 02:35 PM
Clearly not enough adjectives to describe how hateful, bigoted, wrongheaded, homophobic, close-minded intolerant, narrow-minded, stubborn, simple-minded, proscriptive, backwards, biased, Republican, hick, bible thumper, draconian, medieval, stuffy, and my personal favorite, illiberal this mother is.

It just strikes me that when you control the definitions, and by extension, the inferences, of an argument, you control the argument. It is a very good method, I approve.

What the hell?

confused at birth
01-16-2012, 02:42 PM
gut reaction to homosexuality.

My dirty mind says of course there is a gut reaction to homosexuality.

it would cost extra for the same reaction to be there for a lesbian couple

Res_Ipsa
01-16-2012, 02:54 PM
What the hell?

How the hell should I know. However, I would assume it is a joke.

Verin Mathwin
01-16-2012, 03:26 PM
I came out to my very conservative Christian parents about two years ago, and just a few weeks ago was the first time we've talked about it since then. They still don't approve, but they are coming around. My case is better than some where the parents just kick the child out of their lives, but in most cases it just takes time. They just don't know how to handle it. They've really never been exposed to anything like this and they don't know how to cope. It's sad, but that's just the way it is. So just because someone is anti gay, or whatever. It's not always good to assume that they are just hateful people... they just don't understand. And attacking them isn't the right response.

Ivhon
01-16-2012, 03:31 PM
I came out to my very conservative Christian parents about two years ago, and just a few weeks ago was the first time we've talked about it since then. They still don't approve, but they are coming around. My case is better than some where the parents just kick the child out of their lives, but in most cases it just takes time. They just don't know how to handle it. They've really never been exposed to anything like this and they don't know how to cope. It's sad, but that's just the way it is. So just because someone is anti gay, or whatever. It's not always good to assume that they are just hateful people... they just don't understand. And attacking them isn't the right response.

Thanks for the reminder

DaiShan1981
01-16-2012, 05:02 PM
I came out to my very conservative Christian parents about two years ago, and just a few weeks ago was the first time we've talked about it since then. They still don't approve, but they are coming around. My case is better than some where the parents just kick the child out of their lives, but in most cases it just takes time. They just don't know how to handle it. They've really never been exposed to anything like this and they don't know how to cope. It's sad, but that's just the way it is. So just because someone is anti gay, or whatever. It's not always good to assume that they are just hateful people... they just don't understand. And attacking them isn't the right response.
I'm not saying it's easy for them, and I don't want to harp on your parents, I've never had to go through anything like this. But honestly, I think it's rather hurtful of them to act that way. To not trust you as their child and to "disapprove" of something like this. Maybe not "attacking" them, but definitely confronting them with this behavior will always be my chosen course of action.

Verin Mathwin
01-16-2012, 05:08 PM
I'm not saying it's easy for them, and I don't want to harp on your parents, I've never had to go through anything like this. But honestly, I think it's rather hurtful of them to act that way. To not trust you as their child and to "disapprove" of something like this. Maybe not "attacking" them, but definitely confronting them with this behavior will always be my chosen course of action.


Oh, yeah... it is definitely hurtful. When I wrote my original post I was more referring to what Res wrote. I don't really know what that was all about. But yes, confronting them is good, but it has to be done in the right way and during the right time. If you don't it's just going to create more problems. I don't have a close relationship with my parents, but I still love them... as much as they've fucked up over the years. Confront them yes, but don't attack. It's not good for either party.

Res_Ipsa
01-16-2012, 06:16 PM
Oh, yeah... it is definitely hurtful. When I wrote my original post I was more referring to what Res wrote. I don't really know what that was all about.

It is a common fixture of my argument when discussing the issue of homosexual marriage that it is not appropriate to label every person who opposes it as simply hateful. Many on the pro side of things conflate their own form of prejudice as the right way because they see themselves as more tolerant and those that disagree as intolerant. Logical fallacies abound and a lot of people complain why we can never solve issues. Well, as long as they keep on saying that everyone who opposes their beliefs is hateful or ignorant there will always be discord.

Take your parents for example, it sounds like you would reject that they are "hateful" people and yet that is the contention of many on this board that if you hold religious beliefs that are contrary to homosexual marriage then you are bigoted or homophobic.

My argument is that both sides have valid positions and I do not like either sides attempts to characterize the other in extremes. Naturally, since I am voicing opposition, my views are assumed to be anti-homosexual when in reality they are neither pro or con. I don't much care for either side on the issue. I don't like the idea of a government coming in to say who one can and cannot be with and by extension denying basic rights. I also do not like a claim of tolerance that is just as intolerant as the other side of the coin.

Verin Mathwin
01-16-2012, 06:29 PM
Clearly not enough adjectives to describe how hateful, bigoted, wrongheaded, homophobic, close-minded intolerant, narrow-minded, stubborn, simple-minded, proscriptive, backwards, biased, Republican, hick, bible thumper, draconian, medieval, stuffy, and my personal favorite, illiberal this mother is.

It just strikes me that when you control the definitions, and by extension, the inferences, of an argument, you control the argument. It is a very good method, I approve.


Res, I was talking about this... What?

Res_Ipsa
01-16-2012, 06:37 PM
Res, I was talking about this... What?

Right, I was extrapolating. Scroll up to my original post of Gil's post. I bolded her use of "her obviously prejudiced mother."

I was poking fun at the intentional use of that language. Like I side, my views do not necessarily comport with either side but I tend to find it funny how much the pro-homosexual marriage side conflates opposition with some form of bad mindset. Hence, my bolding of prejudice where I was just listing synonyms of the word and like terms.

Sorry for the confusion, does that make it clear?

Davian93
01-16-2012, 07:08 PM
Well, being a homophobe is one of those pesky forms of bigotry.

DaiShan1981
01-16-2012, 10:52 PM
Right, I was extrapolating. Scroll up to my original post of Gil's post. I bolded her use of "her obviously prejudiced mother."

I was poking fun at the intentional use of that language. Like I side, my views do not necessarily comport with either side but I tend to find it funny how much the pro-homosexual marriage side conflates opposition with some form of bad mindset. Hence, my bolding of prejudice where I was just listing synonyms of the word and like terms.

Sorry for the confusion, does that make it clear?
Res, I'll be the last person to not try and see both sides of an argument, but I don't think in this situation you can claim that both sides are on equal ground at all. I don't categorize people against homosexuality as willfully hateful, but ignorant definitely springs to mind. But mainly, I don't think there's equal ground because one half of the argument is telling the other half that the love that they feel isn't the right kind of love and they shouldn't sleep with the person they love. How much more personal does it need to get for you to come down off the fence?

EDIT: You say you don't like false claims of tolerance, but I don't see what being tolerant has anything to do with this at all. It's about personal freedoms. I don't see why I would need to "tolerate" someone's personal life to begin with = since it's their personal life it doesn't really affect me at all.

Tomp
01-17-2012, 02:41 AM
For some parents there's an adjustment period where the parents "mourn" the future that THEY had invisioned for their child. They can't see the alternative and think that no good can come of the new "situation". They usually come around in a positive way after a little time.


Not always though.

GonzoTheGreat
01-17-2012, 03:43 AM
Tell me, Gonzo, why are women's rights the one issue on which you aren't totally left wing? It's always puzzled me.
A lot of the comments which give you this impression are tongue in (my own) cheek.

You may have read that sarcasm doesn't come through very well on the Internet, you may have failed to notice that I tend to ignore that, in the hope that the problem clears up.

yks 6nnetu hing
01-17-2012, 03:50 AM
A lot of the comments which give you this impression are tongue in (my own) cheek.

You may have read that sarcasm doesn't come through very well on the Internet, you may have failed to notice that I tend to ignore that, in the hope that the problem clears up.

now go make me a sammitch

Ishara
01-17-2012, 07:37 AM
Res, I'll be the last person to not try and see both sides of an argument, but I don't think in this situation you can claim that both sides are on equal ground at all. I don't categorize people against homosexuality as willfully hateful, but ignorant definitely springs to mind. But mainly, I don't think there's equal ground because one half of the argument is telling the other half that the love that they feel isn't the right kind of love and they shouldn't sleep with the person they love. How much more personal does it need to get for you to come down off the fence?

EDIT: You say you don't like false claims of tolerance, but I don't see what being tolerant has anything to do with this at all. It's about personal freedoms. I don't see why I would need to "tolerate" someone's personal life to begin with = since it's their personal life it doesn't really affect me at all.

GOSH, I've missed you!!! :D

Ishara
01-17-2012, 07:38 AM
now go make me a sammitch

Also, I must apparently spread rep around again before I get back to you, but that was just awesome.

yks 6nnetu hing
01-17-2012, 09:30 AM
EDIT: You say you don't like false claims of tolerance, but I don't see what being tolerant has anything to do with this at all. It's about personal freedoms. I don't see why I would need to "tolerate" someone's personal life to begin with = since it's their personal life it doesn't really affect me at all.

http://hackedirl.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/epic-win-photos-protest-win1.jpg

Gilshalos Sedai
01-17-2012, 10:03 AM
Res_Ipsa failed to take into account the fact that I was responding to Gonzo's question of why it would have taken so long for this woman to come out to her mother.

I called the mother "prejudiced," because that's the only reason I can think of WHY this daughter would have waited so long (since I doubt she just woke up one day at the ripe old age of 37 and decided she wanted to bat for the other team). Because I assumed she knew her mother well enough to know how the old bat would take to this information. Silly me.

But thanks for assuming I'm just as intolerantly bigoted, Res-Ipsa. Good to know you know me so fucking well.

DaiShan1981
01-17-2012, 10:04 AM
Cool pic :)

Not sure what it has to do with my quote though?

GonzoTheGreat
01-17-2012, 10:07 AM
But thanks for assuming I'm just as intolerantly bigoted, Res-Ipsa.
He's very open minded about things like that.

Cool pic :)

Not sure what it has to do with my quote though?
I think that yks volunteered you to be one of the two dads.

yks 6nnetu hing
01-17-2012, 10:55 AM
Cool pic :)

Not sure what it has to do with my quote though?

General feel of happy kids being happy with supportive and not repressed parents that love each other

Terez
01-17-2012, 09:46 PM
This is great. (http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/2011/12/gay_marriage_amy_koch_michael_brodkorb.php) (Amy Koch was the Minnesota Senate Majority Leader, and she has campaigned for a marriage amendment defining marriage as man+woman.)

An Open Apology to Amy Koch on Behalf of All Gay and Lesbian Minnesotans

Dear Ms. Koch,

On behalf of all gays and lesbians living in Minnesota, I would like to wholeheartedly apologize for our community's successful efforts to threaten your traditional marriage. We are ashamed of ourselves for causing you to have what the media refers to as an "illicit affair" with your staffer, and we also extend our deepest apologies to him and to his wife. These recent events have made it quite clear that our gay and lesbian tactics have gone too far, affecting even the most respectful of our society.

We apologize that our selfish requests to marry those we love have cheapened and degraded traditional marriage so much that we caused you to stray from your own holy union for something more cheap and tawdry. And we are doubly remorseful in knowing that many will see this as a form of sexual harassment of a subordinate.

It is now clear to us that if we were not so self-focused and myopic, we would have been able to see that the time you wasted diligently writing legislation that would forever seal the definition of marriage as being between one man and one woman, could have been more usefully spent reshaping the legal definition of "adultery."

Forgive us. As you know, we are not church-going people, so we are unable to fully appreciate that "gay marriage" is incompatible with Christian values, despite the fact that those values carry a biblical tradition of adultery such as yours. We applaud you for keeping that tradition going.

And finally, shame on us for thinking that marriage is a private affair, and that our marriage would have little impact on anyone's family. We now see that marriage is more than that. It is an agreement with society. We should listen to the Minnesota Family Council when it tells us that marriage is about being public, which explains why marriages are public ceremonies. Never did we realize that it is exactly because of this societal agreement that the entire world is looking at you in shame and disappointment instead of minding its own business.

From the bottom of our hearts, we ask that you please accept our apology.

Thank you.
John Medeiros
Minneapolis MN

Basel Gill
01-17-2012, 10:11 PM
That is damned funny.

GonzoTheGreat
01-18-2012, 03:51 AM
This is great. (http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/2011/12/gay_marriage_amy_koch_michael_brodkorb.php) (Amy Koch was the Minnesota Senate Majority Leader, and she has campaigned for a marriage amendment defining marriage as man+woman.)
Been there, done that (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=172705&postcount=289). Still funny.

Gilshalos Sedai
01-18-2012, 11:06 AM
Thank you for finding that, that was awesome. :D

Davian93
01-18-2012, 11:59 AM
By law, every time a gay couple gets married, a straight couple has to file for divorce.

Crispin's Crispian
01-18-2012, 12:34 PM
By law, every time a gay couple gets married, a straight couple has to file for divorce.

"Atta boy, Clarence!"

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/It%27s_A_Wonderful_Life.jpg/250px-It%27s_A_Wonderful_Life.jpg

Bryan Blaire
01-18-2012, 01:14 PM
I am not trying to take away from support for gay marriage at all here (I have actually changed my mind on the subject), but what about either of the following:
1) honestly, why the heck is the gov't even involved in marriage, other than simply recording who states they are married? I get inheritance, but they'd have their mits in that anyway. I don't get it's use for taxes, TBH, because you can still find ways to avoid the 'marriage penalty' in filings anyway. Medical stuff I've never understood anyway, but there shouldn't be a need for someone to walk around with a power of attorney and other signed documents in their pocket - or be subject to being removed when "real family" gets there (which is ridiculous - if there is documentation showing the patient's wishes, why should a hospital be allowed to countermand this).

2) what about other situations where maybe three (or more) people all want to be married? Yes, it would be much more complicated than just even division of goods, etc blah blah family law and junk, but shouldn't it be up to the people involved how many folks or how complex it becomes? Heck, the evangelicals that like the Old Testament so much should be in favor of this, it's more Abrahamic.

That said: Just do it. I'm not even sure that "love" or anything else needs to come into it, as the gov't basically views it as a business contract (and Judaism does too, per my coworker).

Gilshalos Sedai
01-18-2012, 01:19 PM
I am not trying to take away from support for gay marriage at all here (I have actually changed my mind on the subject), but what about either of the following:
1) honestly, why the heck is the gov't even involved in marriage, other than simply recording who states they are married? I get inheritance, but they'd have their mits in that anyway. I don't get it's use for taxes, TBH, because you can still find ways to avoid the 'marriage penalty' in filings anyway. Medical stuff I've never understood anyway, but there shouldn't be a need for someone to walk around with a power of attorney and other signed documents in their pocket - or be subject to being removed when "real family" gets there (which is ridiculous - if there is documentation showing the patient's wishes, why should a hospital be allowed to countermand this).

2) what about other situations where maybe three (or more) people all want to be married? Yes, it would be much more complicated than just even division of goods, etc blah blah family law and junk, but shouldn't it be up to the people involved how many folks or how complex it becomes? Heck, the evangelicals that like the Old Testament so much should be in favor of this, it's more Abrahamic.

That said: Just do it. I'm not even sure that "love" or anything else needs to come into it, as the gov't basically views it as a business contract (and Judaism does too, per my coworker).

Translation from Bryan-speak: Heterosexual life mates like Jay and Silent Bob should be able to get married, too.

Bryan Blaire
01-18-2012, 01:23 PM
Hush woman, I'm almost to the good trade-in time frame.

Gilshalos Sedai
01-18-2012, 01:26 PM
Hush woman, I'm almost to the good trade-in time frame.

*snort* Good luck getting a better deal than me.

Davian93
01-18-2012, 01:29 PM
1) honestly, why the heck is the gov't even involved in marriage

http://universitychic.com/files/money_1.jpeg

Its just another way to milk licensing money out of people.

Gilshalos Sedai
01-18-2012, 01:35 PM
http://universitychic.com/files/money_1.jpeg

Its just another way to milk licensing money out of people.

You know... I swear to god the first time I read your post it said, "It's just another way to get your milk money."

Which, I guess, fits... in a bizarre sort of way.

GonzoTheGreat
01-19-2012, 03:33 AM
1) honestly, why the heck is the gov't even involved in marriage, other than simply recording who states they are married?Marriage is probably the most common far reaching standard contract in the world. If one counts things as buying eggs and milk as a contract, then those would be more common still, which is why I added the "far reaching" bit.
So the government, which is the official arbiter for contracts, has basically two options:
1A. Make an official standard, which greatly simplifies things when it comes to arbiting.
1B. Let everyone make up their own contract, verbal or otherwise, and then have the courts swamped with the attempts to sort out this mess whenever something comes up.

From the viewpoint of a small, cheap, non-intrusive, government option 1A seems a lot better than option 1B. So having this standardised and only taking exceptions into account when they are properly documented, does make a lot of sense.

2) what about other situations where maybe three (or more) people all want to be married? Yes, it would be much more complicated than just even division of goods, etc blah blah family law and junk, but shouldn't it be up to the people involved how many folks or how complex it becomes? Heck, the evangelicals that like the Old Testament so much should be in favor of this, it's more Abrahamic.
For that, I would say: let the people sort it out themselves. It will be a lot rarer, in our society, and the potential complications are a lot greater than with the one on one marriage, so it would not be worth the hassle or the risk of ill written laws to try to deal with this in advance.

That said: Just do it. I'm not even sure that "love" or anything else needs to come into it, as the gov't basically views it as a business contract (and Judaism does too, per my coworker).
Then again, Judaism only seems to acknowledge religious marriages, as evidenced by the fact that two atheists couldn't marry each other in Israel without claiming to have the same religion. If they don't want to do that, then they have to get a civil marriage abroad. Which has been accepted there ever since their High Court said the government had to acknowledge those foreign marriages.

So yes, it is a contract, but definitely not a secular one, according to Judaism.

Bryan Blaire
01-19-2012, 09:48 AM
Well, as to 1a, that wasn't the choice in at least Texas back in the early days of the "Republic of Texas" and maybe even into early statehood from what I've been able to see in copies of family records of friends here that were early settlers and fought for Texas independence (one of them has a county that bears his family name) that the courts used to simply acknowledge those who came to them after whatever ceremonies they had and were simply recorded in the county records, didn't sound like there were fees, etc. Like Davian said, it seems like at some point, different states started doing the "marriage liscense" which netted the state some cash. I realize this is entrenched now, but it seems like the method of simply maintaining records would have been better, but would not probably have allowed for cash flow.

As far as the secular marriage contracts, I don't specifically know how it is handled in Israel, but according specifically to the rather devout Jewish guy I work with, his marriage involves two separate contracts, the religious one from being married through his synagogue, and a separate legal contract written up and signed by both parties that stipulates exact "business" style arrangements. According to him, this is pretty common Jewish practice, between here and where he was born in New York.

Figbiscuit
01-20-2012, 05:51 AM
As far as the secular marriage contracts, I don't specifically know how it is handled in Israel, but according specifically to the rather devout Jewish guy I work with, his marriage involves two separate contracts, the religious one from being married through his synagogue, and a separate legal contract written up and signed by both parties that stipulates exact "business" style arrangements. According to him, this is pretty common Jewish practice, between here and where he was born in New York.

I have recently caught myself watching, for no discernable reason, some episodes of Eastenders. Eastenders is a soap opera set in East London, and is basically one of the easiest ways known to man to make you feel better about your life and realise that maybe everything is not so bad after all. Not why I have been watching it.

Anyway, one of the recent plot lines has involved a Muslim couple getting divorced (although I didn't watch for a couple of weeks and now they seem to be back together again), and it appeared that this was also the case there. They had to have a civil divorce involving signing documents etc, but then also a religious divorce through the mosque. This appeared to be the much more serious and irreversable of the two, in their eyes. I have no reason to believe this might not be true to life.

Zombie Sammael
01-20-2012, 06:52 AM
I have recently caught myself watching, for no discernable reason, some episodes of Eastenders. Eastenders is a soap opera set in East London, and is basically one of the easiest ways known to man to make you feel better about your life and realise that maybe everything is not so bad after all. Not why I have been watching it.

Anyway, one of the recent plot lines has involved a Muslim couple getting divorced (although I didn't watch for a couple of weeks and now they seem to be back together again), and it appeared that this was also the case there. They had to have a civil divorce involving signing documents etc, but then also a religious divorce through the mosque. This appeared to be the much more serious and irreversable of the two, in their eyes. I have no reason to believe this might not be true to life.

Yeah, it's exactly the same in the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. (may it protect us all with its noodly appendage)

GonzoTheGreat
01-20-2012, 07:47 AM
I have recently caught myself watching, for no discernable reason, some episodes of Eastenders.
That's probably the only possible good reason for watching it.

Zombie Sammael
01-20-2012, 08:50 AM
That's probably the only possible good reason for watching it.

If you really, really hate your family, you could make them watch the Christmas special.

Figbiscuit
01-22-2012, 01:36 PM
If you really, really hate your family, you could make them watch the Christmas special.

I once spent Christmas with a friend, who made me watch that. Singularly one of the most depressing things I've ever seen IN MY LIFE. I will probably never spend Christmas with her again *shudders*

bowlwoman
01-22-2012, 02:19 PM
Certain societies allowed homosexuality so long as it didn't involve an adult man playing the 'female' role in sex, which is why you often see a tradition of pederasty in ancient or non-industrial cultures.

Even in the good ol' US of A, pre-Revolutionary war. I did a paper in my graduate British America class on sex and sexuality in British North America. There are legal records of a wealthy NE farmer prosecuted for "buggery and sodomy" when one of his farm hands came forward that the farmer liked to be the bottom. The farmer was married and had kids, so as long as he was fulfilling his societal obligations befitting his station, everyone turned a blind eye to his rolling around in the hayloft with the male hired help. That is, as long as they thought he farmer was the top and therefore not taking the woman's role. Once it was discovered that the farmer was the one taking it as a woman, THAT'S when they came after him legally.

confused at birth
01-22-2012, 02:23 PM
That is, as long as they thought he farmer was the top and therefore not taking the woman's role.

didnt they realise he could be on top and still have the woman's role?

bowlwoman
01-22-2012, 02:31 PM
the courts used to simply acknowledge those who came to them after whatever ceremonies they had and were simply recorded in the county records, didn't sound like there were fees, etc. Like Davian said, it seems like at some point, different states started doing the "marriage liscense" which netted the state some cash. I realize this is entrenched now, but it seems like the method of simply maintaining records would have been better, but would not probably have allowed for cash flow.

And probably the reason that so many states no longer recognize common-law marriages. Texas still does, mainly as a holdover from their Republic of Texas timeframe (the homesteading laws are still in effect as well).

bowlwoman
01-22-2012, 02:35 PM
didnt they realise he could be on top and still have the woman's role?

It's all about who was being penetrated. The male was never penetrated, and the female always was. Therefore, the male who was penetrated automatically assumed the woman's role. And I'm using their terminology, not mine.

Terez
01-22-2012, 02:47 PM
Even in the good ol' US of A, pre-Revolutionary war. I did a paper in my graduate British America class on sex and sexuality in British North America. There are legal records of a wealthy NE farmer prosecuted for "buggery and sodomy" when one of his farm hands came forward that the farmer liked to be the bottom. The farmer was married and had kids, so as long as he was fulfilling his societal obligations befitting his station, everyone turned a blind eye to his rolling around in the hayloft with the male hired help. That is, as long as they thought he farmer was the top and therefore not taking the woman's role. Once it was discovered that the farmer was the one taking it as a woman, THAT'S when they came after him legally.
Someone should make a movie out of this!

confused at birth
01-22-2012, 02:50 PM
It's all about who was being penetrated.

why would they think that it was that big of a deal.

Either it is ok to have sex with another man or it isnt why does who has the sore bum matter?

I dont pry into the sex lives of my friends but from how they talk about their relationship I am pretty sure the only out gay couple I know(they weren't out when I met them and I should really learn to knock:eek:) I believe they take turns at this.

Terez
01-22-2012, 02:54 PM
why would they think that it was that big deal, either its ok to have sex with another man or it isnt
We've already told you why. They considered it to be the 'female' role in sex, which is unacceptable for a male-dominated society. You have to act like a man, in every respect.

I dont pry into the sex lives of my friends but from how they talk about their relationship I am pretty sure the only out gay couple I know(they weren't out when I met them and I should really learn to knock:eek:)I believe they take turns at this.This is, for the most part, a very modern phenomenon, and even still, less than half of gay men describe themselves as 'versatile'. Most prefer 'top' or 'bottom', and even those who describe themselves as 'versatile' often have a preference. Not too many studies have been done on the subject, but the ones I've seen all indicate that role-playing is still a major factor in gay male relationships.

confused at birth
01-22-2012, 03:06 PM
We've already told you why.

And it didnt seem very logical:(

They considered it to be the 'female' role in sex, which is unacceptable for a male-dominated society. You have to act like a man, in every respect.


but one of them is already acting the 'female' role, deed done, sin committed as they would see it how can then switching places matter?:confused:

but the ones I've seen all indicate that role-playing is still a major factor in gay male relationships.

Well the only thing ive seen suggests a need for a Ricola.:p I am guessing here as I have never tried it but that Had to be hurting his throat

For some reason none of my friends that have had a girl-on-girl relationship see that as making them Bi its was just a fling, one even told me she thought it wasnt cheating to have sex with a girl when she had a boyfriend but would lose it with any guy that flirted with her

bowlwoman
01-22-2012, 03:26 PM
We've already told you why. They considered it to be the 'female' role in sex, which is unacceptable for a male-dominated society. You have to act like a man, in every respect.

Yes. As long as the wealthier and higher-social class man wasn't being penetrated, he could stick it in whomever he chose (male or female) and no one would raise too big a ruckus because he was the man, he was richer, he was in a higher social and economic class, and as long as he continued to respect the rules that no one should rule him or be above him (socially, financially, sexually), then it was fine. It's when he took the female sexual role and was penetrated that his sexual proclivities opposed his social standing and place in the community because he was no longer the top dog. Someone was debasing him by putting him in a woman's place, i.e., a man was sticking his penis into him as one would do to a woman. And compounding the issue was that it was a hired farm hand, someone much lower than him in social and financial status. He was thereby prosecuted. The good people of the community couldn't allow their world to become out of line with society's norms, so they went after the farmer as being unnatural once they found out he was being penetrated, because him being penetrated was wrong.

As Terez said, the man assuming a female role in a male-dominated society is unacceptable. Social order breaks down. Cats and dogs live together. The Stay Puft Marshmallow Man shows up. Mass hysteria.

Does that clear it up? If not, let me know and I can draw a few more lines for you...maybe in crayon...

This is, for the most part, a very modern phenomenon

Exactly. The concept of self as "homosexual," "heterosexual," or such didn't even come about until the middle of the 19th century, and even then it was slow to catch on. I read an article within the last year or so that talked about gay Muslims and the fact that they are starting to go through that same process now, identifying as "homosexual" instead of just viewing it as sexual behaviors they engage in. I can't find the article right now, but it was very interesting the way they paralleled current Islamic society's stance on homosexuality as similar to the Christian thought of 200 years ago.

and even still, less than half of gay men describe themselves as 'versatile'. Most prefer 'top' or 'bottom', and even those who describe themselves as 'versatile' often have a preference. Not too many studies have been done on the subject, but the ones I've seen all indicate that role-playing is still a major factor in gay male relationships.

One of my good friends in college said that it all came down to size. If the partner's goods were bigger, he wanted to be the bottom. If his were bigger, he wanted to be the top. I guess it's all down to personal preference.

confused at birth
01-22-2012, 03:43 PM
Someone was debasing him by putting him in a woman's place, i.e., a man was sticking his penis into him as one would do to a woman.

Someone should have told him he was doing it wrong:D

Someone was debasing him by putting him in a woman's place

if they put it like that in front of their wives its no wonder they had to sleep with the help:D

Does that clear it up? If not, let me know and I can draw a few more lines for you...maybe in crayon...


What you said makes a kind of sense I guess

I now just think it was stupid way to look at it

Terez
01-22-2012, 03:45 PM
One of my good friends in college said that it all came down to size. If the partner's goods were bigger, he wanted to be the bottom. If his were bigger, he wanted to be the top. I guess it's all down to personal preference.
Yeah, and this often parallels with general body size. Those who permanently identify as 'bottoms' are often small guys with small goods. Not always, but often.

confused at birth
01-22-2012, 04:10 PM
Those who permanently identify as 'bottoms' are often small guys with small goods.

Um shouldnt it be the other way around?

why wouldnt they try to reduce the ouch factor?

Terez
01-22-2012, 05:14 PM
Um shouldnt it be the other way around?

why wouldnt they try to reduce the ouch factor?
lol. The 'ouch' factor is only relevant to virgins. After that, they have the same motives as females.

confused at birth
01-22-2012, 05:29 PM
lol. The 'ouch' factor is only relevant to virgins.

That doesnt sound right, I got bored and watched Kama Sutra DVDs that my blushing roommate returned(he kept the rest) and it said something about it hurting because of some natural response to sticking stuff up there and your body tries to stop it.

They made it seem like it happened everytime and you have to wait for your body to relax or the pain gets worse.

I will ask my friends about this but I am not sure how much of their reply will be clean enough to post here.

I have only seen one of their tools available for this function and even if I was gay I dont think I would let it anywhere near on the basis of not wanting my lungs to be pushed out of my throat:eek:

Terez
01-22-2012, 06:22 PM
That doesnt sound right, I got bored and watched Kama Sutra DVDs that my blushing roommate returned(he kept the rest) and it said something about it hurting because of some natural response to sticking stuff up there and your body tries to stop it.

They made it seem like it happened everytime and you have to wait for your body to relax or the pain gets worse.
If it didn't feel good, then no one would do it. The sphincter muscles have to be trained a bit, but eventually the pain element goes away almost completely, though non-lubed penetration always has the potential to be painful, and relaxation techniques are always helpful.

confused at birth
01-22-2012, 06:29 PM
Ok then I will accept your personal experience over the wierd guy doing the voice over.

you never know when some random slice of knowledge might become relevant :)

Cor Shan
01-22-2012, 06:58 PM
The smile made that post 20x creepier

Terez
01-22-2012, 07:53 PM
Ok then I will accept your personal experience over the wierd guy doing the voice over.
Don't take my word for it; you can find the same info all over the internet.

Davian93
01-22-2012, 08:08 PM
Don't take my word for it; you can find the same info all over the internet.

Or just go experience it...but that might be a bit extreme.


What an odd turn this discussion has taken.

Terez
01-22-2012, 08:12 PM
The concept of self as "homosexual," "heterosexual," or such didn't even come about until the middle of the 19th century, and even then it was slow to catch on. I read an article within the last year or so that talked about gay Muslims and the fact that they are starting to go through that same process now, identifying as "homosexual" instead of just viewing it as sexual behaviors they engage in. I can't find the article right now, but it was very interesting the way they paralleled current Islamic society's stance on homosexuality as similar to the Christian thought of 200 years ago.This is something I have been doing a lot of reading about, since my subject of study is Chopin, who died in 1849, just before the 'homosexual' revolution happened. The biggest body of evidence by far of his sexual preferences comes from a set of letters to the love of his life, a farmer (landowner, Sejm member, etc.) back home in Poland. In this case I think the farmer was the 'man' of the relationship, but Chopin was himself an elite and in a much higher social class than the farmer due to his fame as a musician, which often put him in the company of royalty and nobility. (He also had a very strong sense of elitism, and made some comments in his letters showing his appreciation for male-dominated society; he certainly didn't comment in his letters much on his girlfriend George Sand's difficulties in that area.) Those letters were published in 1879, after homosexuality was starting to become a matter of public discussion, which was in many ways unprecedented. It was something one didn't talk about in polite company, though of course it was actually in some ways more accepted before that breach. Once people started talking about it (in the beginning, mostly in a medical sense), then there was of course a conservative backlash against it. Anyway, I found out that Sand was actually an acquaintance of the guy who invented the word 'homosexual', Kertbeny, and perhaps something of an inspiration. They met while Sand and Chopin were still technically 'together', and I wonder if Kertbeny ever met Chopin. The couple is a fantastic case study for mid-19th Century sexuality and gender identity.

StrangePackage
01-22-2012, 08:31 PM
just curious- where is Moronville, NC? I've lived in NC all my life, more or less, and I that name isn't narrowing much down for me.

Ivhon
01-22-2012, 08:33 PM
just curious- where is Moronville, NC? I've lived in NC all my life, more or less, and I that name isn't narrowing much down for me.

I was assumming Mooresville

StrangePackage
01-22-2012, 08:37 PM
I was assumming Mooresville

Could be Mooresville, could be Morrisville, could be Apex or Garner or anywhere, really.

Morons abound in my old North State.

confused at birth
01-22-2012, 08:42 PM
well half the name is included and the rest is my opinion of 90% of the men that live here.

I dont know how smart most of the locals with boobs are as I try to ignore strangers but the ones I like are crazy while the remaining 97% are batshit crazy and tend to be trouble.

StrangePackage
01-22-2012, 08:49 PM
well half the name is included and the rest is my opinion of 90% of the men that live here.

I dont know how smart most of the locals with boobs are as I try to ignore strangers but the ones I like are crazy while the remaining 97% are batshit crazy and tend to be trouble.

Yeah, I still got nothing. Could be Greenville. Could be Mooresville. Could be Morrisville. Could be Asheville (doubtful). Could be Kernersville. Could be Waynesville. Could be Hayesville. Could be Yadkinville...

You're giving me nothing to go on here.

confused at birth
01-22-2012, 08:52 PM
Well one of those was within brick throwing range

Could be Yadkinville...


I have never heard of this one and you are missing a few

that should narrow it down for you

StrangePackage
01-22-2012, 08:58 PM
Hendersonville? Tobaccoville? Lewisville? Thomasville? Franklinville? Rollesville? Winterville? Jacksonville?

There's a ton of fucking Villes in North Carolina.

If it's Hendersonville, I'll buy you a beer.

confused at birth
01-22-2012, 08:59 PM
its not but it was mentioned and this is the last I am willing to say on the matter

you should be able to figure it out not that im sure why you would want to

I know someone from Hendersonville TN but not NC



Anyway so does a StrangePackage effect the time it takes sphincter muscles to be trained?
you could compare notes with Terez to give us a much better understanding of this slightly gross topic

Terez
01-22-2012, 10:03 PM
Hendersonville? Tobaccoville? Lewisville? Thomasville? Franklinville? Rollesville? Winterville? Jacksonville?

There's a ton of fucking Villes in North Carolina.

If it's Hendersonville, I'll buy you a beer.
I'd put my bets on whichever of these is a college town.

confused at birth
01-22-2012, 10:09 PM
that might not be a lot of help as I live off campus





crap dont help the clueless again twit

The Great Serpent
01-23-2012, 12:00 AM
I always assumed it was Asheville, but then - my knowledge of the cities in North Carolina is limited to Raleigh, Asheville, Durham, and Chapel Hill.

StrangePackage
01-23-2012, 08:27 AM
that might not be a lot of help as I live off campus





crap dont help the clueless again twit

Oh, you're at EZU. Roger that. What are you doing on here? Go get you some easy woman.

fdsaf3
01-23-2012, 09:11 AM
What the heck is going on in this thread?

I'm going to ignore the majority of the past few pages of posts.

My (mostly irrelevant) two cents on some of the issues brought up so far in this thread.

1. The letter in the first post was kind of nice, in a way, but it seemed really sanctimonious to me. I get it: the woman was accepting of her gay daughter, and she wanted the world to know it. I'm just not sure that this kind of thing is really needed. In some ways, making such a big deal about this underscores how sexuality is a Big Deal in this country. Ideally, a parent's reaction to their child coming out as gay should be no more enthusiastic than if they came out as favoring one type of potato chip to another.

Of course, I'm not saying that we shouldn't be proud of our differences. Don't misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm not suggesting that people who identify as gay can't or shouldn't take pride in their sexuality. The overly positive reaction by the mom in the letter Terez posted perpetuates the stereotype that homosexuality matters, and I don't think it does.

2. I do think that gay men and women are viewed differently in society. I would argue that gay men (definitely where I live, and probably around the country) are more widely accepted than gay women. Idle armchair speculation based on what I see leads me to believe that women who identify as gay in public are assumed to be bisexual, whereas men who identify as gay are "really" gay. Interestingly, women who identify as bi are usually assumed to be straight, but men who identify as bi are assumed to be gay. I don't what this has to do with anything, but I'm going to leave this part of my post intact. Off the top of my head, I can see a pattern of acceptance of male homosexuality in pop culture (Will and Grace, various male gay characters in TV shows, etc.), but I'm more at a loss to think of corresponding female gay characters who were out. I don't watch much TV, though, so I'm not the best person to ask. Maybe using TV characters isn't the best metric to assess this anyway.

Another thought: I live in Minneapolis, and last summer the Twin Cities was recognized as one of the most gay-friendly metropolitan areas in the country. (Side note: I was tempted to write "gayest", but I don't know if that's right. I'd look up the citation, but I'm at work and don't want to risk looking this up while I'm here. Maybe I'll remember for when I get home.) Gay culture here is pretty strong, and as a heterosexual male I don't perceive there to be much overt discrimination. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist, of course. Even here, I see a lot more openly gay men than women. I don't know why this is. I would assume that since the Twin Cities is a gay-friendly area that we'd have relatively equal numbers of men and women who identify as homosexual, but I just don't see it as much. Maybe someone else knows a reason for this.

I have more thoughts about this but I've rambled on long enough. Maybe I'll work up enough energy later to share more.

yks 6nnetu hing
01-23-2012, 09:35 AM
What the heck is going on in this thread? short answer: confused at birth is confused. Gonzo is being Gonzo, the rest went along.

2. I do think that gay men and women are viewed differently in society. I would argue that gay men (definitely where I live, and probably around the country) are more widely accepted than gay women. Idle armchair speculation based on what I see leads me to believe that women who identify as gay in public are assumed to be bisexual, whereas men who identify as gay are "really" gay. Interestingly, women who identify as bi are usually assumed to be straight, but men who identify as bi are assumed to be gay. I don't what this has to do with anything, but I'm going to leave this part of my post intact. Off the top of my head, I can see a pattern of acceptance of male homosexuality in pop culture (Will and Grace, various male gay characters in TV shows, etc.), but I'm more at a loss to think of corresponding female gay characters who were out. I don't watch much TV, though, so I'm not the best person to ask. Maybe using TV characters isn't the best metric to assess this anyway.

There's Ellen.

And that's kind of it. In America, anyways. Iceland has an openly out lesbian female Prime Minister.

Living in Amsterdam, I've got to say I've been pretty curious about the gay culture. Unlike general understanding about Amsterdam, not everyone who lives here is gay, but I do know a few people. What kind of intrigues me most is how by some you can tell from the way they speak that they're obviously gay, but others it's not quite that clear. IMHO it's pretty sad that the standard picture we get in our heads when anyone says "gay" is the parade-guy in pink leather while that's not at all normal or even the average. Kind of like having the standard "hetero" be a dominatrix in full getup.

and yes, I quite agree that it's unfair that by women it's seen as "not real". EDIT: As if what women do with their bodies "doesn't matter". which, if you think on it is a pretty disgusting opinion for a society to have.

I mean, scientists have proven that pretty much nobody is 100% hetero (or gay/lesbian) - it's all degrees, same as sexual arousal from certain stimulation is never the same for everybody. It depends on the person but most of all on the partner. Because most of it is biochemistry anyways - so brainy dear brainy.

fdsaf3
01-23-2012, 09:41 AM
Ellen seems so dorky and cool. I'd really like to meet her.

DaiShan1981
01-23-2012, 11:12 AM
I don't know why people seem to assume that gay guys have to either be giving it or taking it. As far as I understand from my few gay friends, many don't do anal sex at all but stick to other stuff.

Gilshalos Sedai
01-23-2012, 12:31 PM
Houston's mayor is openly lesbian. She even kissed her partner the night she won.

She ran on a platform of, "I don't want to spend your money." The opposition said, "But she's gay!" Houston said, "Who cares as long as she keeps her fingers out of our wallets?"

Davian93
01-23-2012, 12:32 PM
Houston's mayor is openly lesbian. She even kissed her partner the night she won.

She ran on a platform of, "I don't want to spend your money." The opposition said, "But she's gay!" Houston said, "Who cares as long as she keeps her fingers out of our wallets and in her...?"


FTFY

Gilshalos Sedai
01-23-2012, 12:37 PM
Gross.

Tomp
01-23-2012, 12:56 PM
just curious- where is Moronville, NC? I've lived in NC all my life, more or less, and I that name isn't narrowing much down for me.

Probably an alternate dimension where he makes sense. ;)

confused at birth
01-23-2012, 01:24 PM
I mean, scientists have proven that pretty much nobody is 100% hetero

true enough I consider myself to be straight but if I got a free steak dinner and a couple of bottles of red I would probably be willing to sleep with matt bomer.

if you dont know the name I am comfortable enough to admit even I think he is hot
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0093589/
see

Oh, you're at EZU. Roger that. What are you doing on here? Go get you some easy woman.

because they are so easy.:eek:

A friend came over last year crying and when I found out that it was because her boyfriend was cheating on her the first thing I did was say you have got to go to the doctor(well second, first was move her off my lap)

This turned out to be a bad idea as she made me go along to hold her hand. My habit of spewing bad one liners when uncomfortable. When you are the only man in a waiting room full of women, who from the way the looked at me at least half of them were there because of a man this isn't a good idea.

Houston's mayor is openly lesbian. She even kissed her partner the night she won.


where'd she kiss her?

Probably an alternate dimension where he makes sense.

nope but I dont need to make sense here they hear the accent and assume I am correct in all things and bow down in worship of my greatness:cool:

Gilshalos Sedai
01-23-2012, 01:47 PM
Right in front of the press conference while they were standing on the podium. Duh.

confused at birth
01-23-2012, 01:49 PM
not what I meant

you can really take the fun out of being silly sometimes:p

Gilshalos Sedai
01-23-2012, 01:54 PM
I was doing that on purpose.

I really don't think making a joke out of her sexuality is appropriate. I merely mentioned the kiss because it had the conservatives in my city all up in arms. Which I found utterly amusing due to the double standard.

Of course, it doesn't even enter into anything now. People are too busy bitching over her draw down of the police force so she won't have to spend our money.

confused at birth
01-23-2012, 02:02 PM
I really don't think making a joke out of her sexuality is appropriate.

then

Which I found utterly amusing due to the double standard

make your mind up please.:p

I shouldnt make fun of her being a lesbian but I would be allowed to make fun a straight person?
I would have made the same silly joke with any gender combination in that statement

anyway I am more likely to mock her for the living in Texas part than her sexuality, one is disturbing choice while the other is just love which is something that cannot be controlled

Tomp
01-23-2012, 02:29 PM
nope but I dont need to make sense here they hear the accent and assume I am correct in all things and bow down in worship of my greatness:cool:

You are correct sarcasm is your art :p

Gilshalos Sedai
01-23-2012, 02:45 PM
then



make your mind up please.:p

I shouldnt make fun of he being a lesbian but I would be allowed to make fun a straight person?
I would have made the same silly joke with any gender combination in that statement

anyway I am more likely to mock her for the living in Texas part than her sexuality, one is disturbing choice while the other is just love which is something that cannot be controlled

Laughing at her sexuality is not the same as laughing at conservative pundits.

StrangePackage
01-23-2012, 02:48 PM
nope but I dont need to make sense here they hear the accent and assume I am correct in all things and bow down in worship of my greatness:cool:

What accent is that? Cuz, I hate to break it to you, if you sound like a Damnyankee, the popular opinion of you won't be one of magnitude and rectitude.

That's true anywhere in NC- but especially out there with them Edgecomb and Pitt county boys and gals.

And yes, the women at EZU ... well, they don't call it EZU for nothing.

Sei'taer
01-23-2012, 02:53 PM
What accent is that? Cuz, I hate to break it to you, if you sound like a Damnyankee, the popular opinion of you won't be one of magnitude and rectitude.

That's true anywhere in NC- but especially out there with them Edgecomb and Pitt county boys and gals.

And yes, the women at EZU ... well, they don't call it EZU for nothing.

From what I understand, he's a You-rope-ian.

StrangePackage
01-23-2012, 03:00 PM
Shit fire. If that boy is Yuro-Pian, he could be cleaning UP at EZU.

confused at birth
01-23-2012, 03:05 PM
What accent is that? Cuz, I hate to break it to you, if you sound like a Damnyankee, the popular opinion of you won't be one of magnitude and rectitude.

That's true anywhere in NC- but especially out there with them Edgecomb and Pitt county boys and gals.

English but I speak will French or German in restaurants sometimes :D

They dont seem to like anyone from any other state and lots of them are very racist.

There was one black guy(an army vet) and a guy from california in one of my classes last semester, they all made racist jokes if the black guy wasnt in class and say they didnt pay taxes for some N***** to get free college then slack off.

They called the one from california a useless spi-something I hadnt heard the word before and when I asked them what it was they shut up and looked over to the teacher to make sure he didnt hear.

Most of them are also very homophobic and I get called things like fag lover and fag for asking why it mattered if gays can marry or not.

Davian93
01-23-2012, 03:09 PM
Ahh...the joys of the South. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.

confused at birth
01-23-2012, 03:29 PM
you havent met any british cops have you.

StrangePackage
01-23-2012, 03:50 PM
You're BRITISH?

Holy Hell, man. Just talk to a woman and you'd be able to drown a toddler in her panties.

You got no business being on this website- go out and pull birds!

confused at birth
01-23-2012, 03:58 PM
You're BRITISH?

No:mad::mad:

I am English the rest are the inferior scum that ran from the light of civilization and are now reduced to begging for our scraps to sustain their miserable existence(Just kidding):mad:

You got no business being on this website- go out and pull birds!
Rafo
http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=173870&postcount=55

Also they are crazy and I like not needing to wash in bleach to stay clean

StrangePackage
01-23-2012, 04:02 PM
Oooooh, so the problem is that you're no fun.

I see.

Well, then carry on.

And if you make it to Asheville, I will still buy you a beer. Even if you are no fun.

Sei'taer
01-23-2012, 04:04 PM
Oooooh, so the problem is that you're no fun.

I see.

Well, then carry on.

And if you make it to Asheville, I will still buy you a beer. Even if you are no fun.

If you're buying, I'll be there in about 8 to 10 hours. Depends on traffic.

confused at birth
01-23-2012, 04:04 PM
Oooooh, so the problem is that you're no fun.

ooh bite me!:D

I am Fun just not a man whore

I have perfectly good reasons for not wanting a stranger to touch me but I dont know any of you well enough to share here and wouldnt on a pubic forum anyway

Anyone I dont trust is unwelcome in my personal space and is running the risk of getting badly hurt if they dont back off

Sei'taer
01-23-2012, 05:02 PM
ooh bite me!

I am Fun just not a man whore

I have perfectly good reasons for not wanting a stranger to touch me but I dont know any of you well enough to share here and wouldnt on a pubic forum anyway

Anyone I dont trust is unwelcome in my personal space and is running the risk of getting badly hurt if they dont back off

Pubic forum. I laughed, sorry. It was hilarious given the context of the last few posts.

Tomp
01-23-2012, 05:29 PM
ooh bite me!

I am Fun just not a man whore

I have perfectly good reasons for not wanting a stranger to touch me but I dont know any of you well enough to share here and wouldnt on a pubic forum anyway

Anyone I dont trust is unwelcome in my personal space and is running the risk of getting badly hurt if they dont back off

Ease up on mr Confused, he's after all english and they are, like me, repressed and uneasy when dealing with stangers.
Just like this englisnman http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yakx7XC6eg0

confused at birth
01-23-2012, 09:24 PM
not like that at all. I try to always be honest to direct questions.

If a woman aks me if her bum looks big and it does I say yes I dont say it looks bad just big

do You look fat in that IF yes thats what I will tell you, you should know it does why do you want me to lie to you?

they ask me so I give them the truth as I see it.

I can give compliments to someone who knows how I intend them to sound, I wouldnt give someone I just met a compliment because I dont know how they will take it not because I am incapable of doing so

Tomp
01-23-2012, 10:11 PM
Ok, just me then.

Mr Confused is a very confident, plain spoken man (I'm guessing man) who tells you as it is (in his POV anyway).

We should all strive for his excellence in this arena.

(Let me know if I'm overdoing it)

confused at birth
01-23-2012, 10:24 PM
nope just someone that doesnt see the point of bullshit and call things as I see them without bothering with social niceties.

My friends know I dont mean them any insult im just not willing to lie about something so irrelevant.

We should all strive for his excellence in this arena.


No people that know me tend to put me into one of three categories=

Honest and friendly

Rude but funny

an arrogant, inconsiderate jerk

And I dont care which one as long as they are honest about it. Very few things annoy me more than a person that will smile to your face then talk behind your back,

yks 6nnetu hing
01-24-2012, 02:26 AM
No:mad::mad:

I am English the rest are the inferior scum that ran from the light of civilization and are now reduced to begging for our scraps to sustain their miserable existence(Just kidding):mad:

and racist, apparently. good for you, making the name of all Englishmen a little bit worse with every post...

also, 'grats for derailing an actually interesting discussion with your narcissism :(

Terez
01-24-2012, 02:34 AM
I don't know why people seem to assume that gay guys have to either be giving it or taking it. As far as I understand from my few gay friends, many don't do anal sex at all but stick to other stuff.
From what I've read, it's usually a relatively small minority. Maybe it's different in the Underworld.

confused at birth
01-24-2012, 05:27 AM
and racist, apparently.

apparently you missed the just kidding part. the rest was just there because to many people I meet that dont know that Britain isnt the same as England and it gets on my nerves

good for you, making the name of all Englishmen a little bit worse with every post...

Strange we dont normally allow the words of a single person without any authority to define us. I must be more important than I believed

'grats for derailing an actually interesting discussion with your narcissism

thank you

StrangePackage started talking about me I expected it to be left alone but it kept going so I wanted them to at least get the facts straight

And it has been mentioned before that threads wouldnt get derailed so often if chat worked but that didnt get anywhere

yks 6nnetu hing
01-24-2012, 05:34 AM
apparently you missed the just kidding part. the rest was just there because to many people I meet that dont know that Britain isnt the same as England and it gets on my nerves



Strange we dont normally allow the words of a single person without any authority to define us. I must be more important than I believed



thank you

StrangePackage started talking about me I expected it to be left alone but it kept going so I wanted them to at least get the facts straight

And it has been mentioned before that threads wouldnt get derailed so often if chat worked but that didnt get anywhere

wheeeeee! party in the gay thread for mr. confused!

*sigh* having worked with Scottish and English people and having met a few Welsh and Cornish people, I know very well that it's not all the same. the English have some history for being uppity and condescending towards all the rest I've just named though, you have to admit.

sorry for overreacting, it's just that *I* was in the middle of an interesting discussion. which is now dead and I don't feel like getting aggravated the moment I stick my nose in the Egwene thread again.

confused at birth
01-24-2012, 05:47 AM
the English have some history for being uppity and condescending towards all the rest I've just named though, you have to admit.



admitted freely and most of us know it is wrong but it is so common that people dont notice it any more so it has simply become an accepted part of our culture.
Cornish people are english, there are few things better than a cornish pasty

Just like the amount of homophobia I see in america only no one is complaining about england attitude in any way that could change anything over there at least people are trying to fix the problem here(there trying to get it back on track)

Anyway you mentioned the Welsh? My mum is Welsh

Sheep shaggers the lot of them:D

StrangePackage
01-24-2012, 06:27 AM
nope just someone that doesnt see the point of bullshit and call things as I see them without bothering with social niceties.

My friends know I dont mean them any insult im just not willing to lie about something so irrelevant.


So you only lie about important things?

This is good to know, as well.

I thought the English invented Tact? Are you a self-loathing Limey or something?

GonzoTheGreat
01-24-2012, 06:28 AM
I thought the English invented Tact?
They invented it, but using it is optional.

confused at birth
01-24-2012, 06:39 AM
So you only lie about important things?

I try to lie as rarely as possible it is always trouble so its not worth it.

why go to the effort of having to keep your story straight either tell the truth or keep your mouth shut.

Only reason to bother is to take the fall for someone if you think they are worth the price


Are you a self-loathing Limey or something?


does that mean I hate myself or my country?


there trying to get it back on track

I failed yks is going to be pissed

Zombie Sammael
01-24-2012, 07:24 AM
So you only lie about important things?

This is good to know, as well.

I thought the English invented Tact? Are you a self-loathing Limey or something?

We kicked him out.

Anyway, this thread is fun! I'm English too, what do you guys think of me?

Ivhon
01-24-2012, 07:41 AM
For some reason I have a barely resistible urge to scream "LIMEY FISH!!!!!" at the top of my lungs

confused at birth
01-24-2012, 07:47 AM
For some reason I have a barely resistible urge to scream "LIMEY FISH!!!!!" at the top of my lungs

well you should because lemon goes better with fish

what do you guys think of me?

your proximity to wales means you may have been contaminated with sheep shaggers syndrome, you should have yourself checked for unexplained patches of wool by a doctor

Zombie Sammael
01-24-2012, 07:56 AM
well you should because lemon goes better with fish



your proximity to wales means you may have been contaminated with sheep shaggers syndrome, you should have yourself checked for unexplained patches of wool by a doctor

Fortunately, my Mum's a practice nurse, and she had all of us innoculated against it before we moved here, so I should be all right.

Tomp
01-24-2012, 08:06 AM
We kicked him out.

Anyway, this thread is fun! I'm English too, what do you guys think of me?

I think you live too close to Wales.:p

confused at birth
01-24-2012, 08:08 AM
Fortunately, my Mum's a practice nurse, and she had all of us innoculated against it before we moved here, so I should be all right.

Better to be safe than sorry you dont want to wake up naked in a field one day.

being awake this early sucks I wish I could have a real drink but the last thing this thread needs is me after a few rounds of zombies(cocktails not corpses).

Zombie Sammael
01-24-2012, 08:23 AM
Better to be safe than sorry you dont want to wake up naked in a field one day.

being awake this early sucks I wish I could have a real drink but the last thing this thread needs is me after a few rounds of zombies(cocktails not corpses).

Now I'm confused. No, wait, you're confused. Now I'm really confused. No I'm not! ARRRRRGGGGGGHHHH.

confused at birth
01-24-2012, 08:32 AM
Now I'm confused. No, wait, you're confused. Now I'm really confused. No I'm not!

dont worry I won't be sticking you in my mouth any time soon:eek:

I am stuck on one of the rare days I am on call for work so I have to be up all day in case they need me but I havent slept yet and would love to knock back a few zombies to undo the vibrating high three energy drinks have put me in and pass out.

If you have never had a zombie its your loss, I have to make my own since a bartender told me that he knew what they are but they have to much alcohol in them and they cannot serve them in NC

Gilshalos Sedai
01-24-2012, 08:39 AM
they have to much alcohol in them and they cannot serve them in NC

You've got to be shitting me. Seriously?

confused at birth
01-24-2012, 08:43 AM
You've got to be shitting me. Seriously?

Yep I havent been able to find anywhere willing to serve them:(

I think the problem is that they tend to come in pints and their name comes from what you look like after a
couple.

I had my first one when I was 14 at the rainforest cafe in london with my first steak, such great memories one minute I am admiring the pretty waitress the next im home in bed and my mum is pissed at my dad

Ivhon
01-24-2012, 08:51 AM
Yep I havent been able to find anywhere willing to serve them:(

I think the problem is that they tend to come in pints and their name comes from what you look like after a
couple.

I had my first one when I was 14 at the rainforest cafe in london with my first steak, such great memories one minute I am admiring the pretty waitress the next im home in bed and my mum is pissed at my dad

Wait, wut?

You poor, poor deprived boy! PLEASE tell me "steak" is an euphemism for "pretty waitress"

confused at birth
01-24-2012, 08:54 AM
no mad cow disease.

do you any idea how expensive beef can be in england?

I have had a total of five steaks in england and three of those were during visits back.

I had more beef here my first year than my entire life at home

fdsaf3
01-24-2012, 09:02 AM
I'm with YKS. Maybe confused at birth should have his own thread where he can spam nonsense answers without ruining interesting conversations.

Davian93
01-24-2012, 09:07 AM
What part of Wales is England in anyway...

confused at birth
01-24-2012, 09:07 AM
I'm with YKS. Maybe confused at birth should have his own thread where he can spam nonsense answers without ruining interesting conversations.

someone could just move the whole thing into a new thread like they do if something takes off in the question thread then you could carry on.

I tried to get back on topic then StrangePackage returned followed by

Anyway, this thread is fun! I'm English too, what do you guys think of me?

At which point I gave up

What part of Wales is England in anyway...


the good part!

Zombie Sammael
01-24-2012, 09:17 AM
I'm with YKS. Maybe confused at birth should have his own thread where he can spam nonsense answers without ruining interesting conversations.

Now that Felix has gone, confused at birth is the next best source of entertainment we have. He needs to post in GenWOT more often.

confused at birth
01-24-2012, 09:20 AM
He needs to post in GenWOT more often.

nah last time I tried to really take part there Terez got on my nerves for disagreeing with her so I try avoid the shit storm and stay in the nuthouse

Zombie Sammael
01-24-2012, 09:38 AM
nah last time I tried to really take part there Terez got on my nerves for disagreeing with her so I try avoid the shit storm and stay in the nuthouse

I do not know what you are talking about. I have never (http://theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=6436&page=2) experienced anything (http://theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=6380&page=2) like that.

Davian93
01-24-2012, 09:47 AM
I do not know what you are talking about. I have never (http://theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=6436&page=2) experienced anything (http://theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=6380&page=2) like that.

Well, as the saying goes...if you cant stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

Zombie Sammael
01-24-2012, 09:52 AM
Well, as the saying goes...if you cant stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

Oh, I can take it, Davian. I'd just like to know when GenWOT became her kitchen...

Sei'taer
01-24-2012, 11:12 AM
For some reason I have a barely resistible urge to scream "LIMEY FISH!!!!!" at the top of my lungs

Remember this? The Limey (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qheb3JyMHSU)

Isabel
01-24-2012, 11:26 AM
Since the thread is going no wher I have some interested data:
In the netherlands between 2005 and 2009 there were in avarege per year 610 gay male marriages and 690 lesbian marriages. The divorce rate a year is 45 males and 100 lesbian divorce.
Interesting numbers:D

Davian93
01-24-2012, 11:32 AM
Since the thread is going no wher I have some interested data:
In the netherlands between 2005 and 2009 there were in avarege per year 610 gay male marriages and 690 lesbian marriages. The divorce rate a year is 45 males and 100 lesbian divorce.
Interesting numbers:D

Any time you gather a number of women together, there will be fights...these numbers do not surprise me.

If someone doesnt believe this theory to be true, they can come spend a day in my office with its 70 women/12 men. Everyday is like 8th grade.

yks 6nnetu hing
01-24-2012, 11:39 AM
Any time you gather a number of women together, there will be fights...these numbers do not surprise me.

If someone doesnt believe this theory to be true, they can come spend a day in my office with its 70 women/12 men. Everyday is like 8th grade.

I love working with men. Drama is minimized but off-colour jokes abound... well, except this one guy who just won't shut up. Gorramit, some of us are trying to work between all the yap-gatherings otherwise known as meetings.

I wonder if there's any statistic about remarriages among women? Maybe it's completely wrong but my gut feeling is that women don't remarry as often/soon as men... in general... isit so and does it apply to lesbian marriages too?

Davian93
01-24-2012, 11:51 AM
An example of the 8th gradedness of my office: I get a good number of packages that I have to sign for/unwrap from our mailroom. As such, I end up chatting briefly with the two mailroom clerks fairly regularly as I go through the packages and inventory/time stamp them in. Both mailclerks are mid-20s females...one is pretty decent looking, the other is not. I chat with both equally though as I'm not flirting in the least and neither are they. However, the decent looking one got counseled because of our "chats" because it created rumors around the office as we were supposedly socializing too much. What the specific nature of the rumors was (most likely that we were having an affair or something else ridiculous) is something I am not aware of but the fact that becuase other idiot females are gossipping, she is not allowed to talk and neither am I apparently (as her supervisor asked me nicely not to and I just laughed at her as I'm the same rank/grade) because of bored females creating BS rumors....Ugh, this is why I dont talk to anyone at work about anything I dont want the entire office to know. Everyone in the office is a pathetic backstabber. At least in male-dominated offices, people tend to find a pecking order and stick to it after the initial struggle. Women seem to continually change their dumb little cliques and pecking order on a whim based on who slighted who, who defriended who on Facebook (seriously), who went to lunch with who, etc etc.


~rant complete~

Zombie Sammael
01-24-2012, 12:14 PM
An example of the 8th gradedness of my office: I get a good number of packages that I have to sign for/unwrap from our mailroom. As such, I end up chatting briefly with the two mailroom clerks fairly regularly as I go through the packages and inventory/time stamp them in. Both mailclerks are mid-20s females...one is pretty decent looking, the other is not. I chat with both equally though as I'm not flirting in the least and neither are they. However, the decent looking one got counseled because of our "chats" because it created rumors around the office as we were supposedly socializing too much. What the specific nature of the rumors was (most likely that we were having an affair or something else ridiculous) is something I am not aware of but the fact that becuase other idiot females are gossipping, she is not allowed to talk and neither am I apparently (as her supervisor asked me nicely not to and I just laughed at her as I'm the same rank/grade) because of bored females creating BS rumors....Ugh, this is why I dont talk to anyone at work about anything I dont want the entire office to know. Everyone in the office is a pathetic backstabber. At least in male-dominated offices, people tend to find a pecking order and stick to it after the initial struggle. Women seem to continually change their dumb little cliques and pecking order on a whim based on who slighted who, who defriended who on Facebook (seriously), who went to lunch with who, etc etc.


~rant complete~

Interestingly, when i was working in theatre, although the rumours and backstabbing were on all sides (and in some cases actually encouraged by the director), we found that all female casts would generally work harder and settle down faster than mixed or all male. It got to the point where the director was actively looking for all female casts. Though he kept using ones that were too large and that's why he eventually went bust - after screwing me over and firing me. So the lesson is, no matter how bad your office job is, at least you're not in theatre.

Gilshalos Sedai
01-24-2012, 12:23 PM
An example of the 8th gradedness of my office: I get a good number of packages that I have to sign for/unwrap from our mailroom. As such, I end up chatting briefly with the two mailroom clerks fairly regularly as I go through the packages and inventory/time stamp them in. Both mailclerks are mid-20s females...one is pretty decent looking, the other is not. I chat with both equally though as I'm not flirting in the least and neither are they. However, the decent looking one got counseled because of our "chats" because it created rumors around the office as we were supposedly socializing too much. What the specific nature of the rumors was (most likely that we were having an affair or something else ridiculous) is something I am not aware of but the fact that becuase other idiot females are gossipping, she is not allowed to talk and neither am I apparently (as her supervisor asked me nicely not to and I just laughed at her as I'm the same rank/grade) because of bored females creating BS rumors....Ugh, this is why I dont talk to anyone at work about anything I dont want the entire office to know. Everyone in the office is a pathetic backstabber. At least in male-dominated offices, people tend to find a pecking order and stick to it after the initial struggle. Women seem to continually change their dumb little cliques and pecking order on a whim based on who slighted who, who defriended who on Facebook (seriously), who went to lunch with who, etc etc.


~rant complete~

I'd write a long essay defending my sex...

But I have two sisters and did time in a sorority. I'm afraid God would strike me down for lying that egregiously.

Problem is, not all of us are like that. But everyone expects us to be like that.

Brita
01-24-2012, 12:44 PM
Problem is, not all of us are like that. But everyone expects us to be like that.

Amen.

yks 6nnetu hing
01-24-2012, 01:52 PM
Problem is, not all of us are like that.

Not all the time anyways. And some of us actively try to resist those bitchy urges. Not that it always works, mind. But we try.

confused at birth
01-24-2012, 02:24 PM
Well, as the saying goes...if you cant stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

Its not that I cant stand it it just makes me wonder if it worth making that post and if I have the time to explain it when someone glances at it and sees I dont agree with them making my post wrong and stupid for not agreeing


Problem is, not all of us are like that.

And there are plenty of guys that act like this as well that will help cause problems.

Zombie Sammael
01-24-2012, 02:40 PM
Its not that I cant stand it it just makes me wonder if it worth making that post and if I have the time to explain it when someone glances at it and sees I dont agree with them making my post wrong and stupid for not agreeing

Trust me, you're not the only one who feels this way. The only way to deal with a bully is to stand up to them.

Terez
01-24-2012, 02:47 PM
Trust me, you're not the only one who feels this way. The only way to deal with a bully is to stand up to them.It helps if you're not an idiot.

Zombie Sammael
01-24-2012, 02:58 PM
It helps if you're not an idiot.

*yawn*

Terez
01-24-2012, 03:05 PM
If you're sleepy, then go to bed.

Zombie Sammael
01-24-2012, 03:09 PM
If you're sleepy, then go to bed.

Not sleepy, just bored.

Davian93
01-24-2012, 03:10 PM
I just ignore T personally...at least when she's yelling at me.

confused at birth
01-24-2012, 03:10 PM
It helps if you're not an idiot.


so many replies must resist temptation



I'd just like to know when GenWOT became her kitchen...

I dont know, maybe majority rules accidently became combined with post count?

Zombie Sammael
01-24-2012, 03:11 PM
I just ignore T personally...at least when she's yelling at me.

I find I can't do that if I want to discuss anything other than Egwene on GenWOT.

Terez
01-24-2012, 03:27 PM
I find I can't do that if I want to discuss anything other than Egwene on GenWOT.And yet, some people manage to have discussions with me - even disagreements - where no one gets insulted. I wonder how that works.

Cor Shan
01-24-2012, 04:41 PM
To be fair, I've skipped all of Confused's posts in the second half of thread.

re: Gender stuff: +1 Davian. I've noticed this coaching two girls. Two. How do you have drama when theres two of you?

Also NJ is having a vote on gay marriage soon.

Terez
01-24-2012, 04:53 PM
To be fair, I've skipped all of Confused's posts in the second half of thread.I personally find them very hard to read, and so usually don't bother.

Cor Shan
01-25-2012, 12:20 AM
I personally find them very hard to read, and so usually don't bother.

Exactly.

Davian93
01-25-2012, 07:29 AM
To be fair, I've skipped all of Confused's posts in the second half of thread.

re: Gender stuff: +1 Davian. I've noticed this coaching two girls. Two. How do you have drama when theres two of you?

Also NJ is having a vote on gay marriage soon.

No idea...for whatever reason, women seem to have a far more flexible social order that falls into more constant disagreements then men whereas men fall into a defined chain of command rather easily.


Perhaps someone with a sociology background could enlighten us? Anyone on TL have that background?

Anyone?

GonzoTheGreat
01-25-2012, 08:30 AM
I don't think anyone here has a biological background. We're all wholly artifical spambots.

fdsaf3
01-25-2012, 08:36 AM
No idea...for whatever reason, women seem to have a far more flexible social order that falls into more constant disagreements then men whereas men fall into a defined chain of command rather easily.


Perhaps someone with a sociology background could enlighten us? Anyone on TL have that background?

Anyone?

What I think of when I read your post is power. There's a lot of really interesting (if you're into the material, that is) literature on power, gender, and race, and how those factors are expressed within society. Not only is there an inherent power difference between men and women (men have it, women don't), but there are also differences in how that power is expressed.

Sei'taer
01-25-2012, 09:03 AM
What I think of when I read your post is power. There's a lot of really interesting (if you're into the material, that is) literature on power, gender, and race, and how those factors are expressed within society. Not only is there an inherent power difference between men and women (men have it, women don't), but there are also differences in how that power is expressed.

When women are little, they are princesses and that carries on throughout their lives. They expect to be princesses and when another princess horns in on their territory, it ruins their kingdom.

Men are told to get up and walk it off. don't be a puss. That kind of thing. So the toughest guy, be it mentally tough or physically tough, is the one in charge. (lucky for me, I'm both, as well as unbelieveably good looking...you fucking losers)

It's as simple as that.

yks 6nnetu hing
01-25-2012, 09:10 AM
When women are little, they are princesses and that carries on throughout their lives. They expect to be princesses and when another princess horns in on their territory, it ruins their kingdom.

Men are told to get up and walk it off. don't be a puss. That kind of thing. So the toughest guy, be it mentally tough or physically tough, is the one in charge. (lucky for me, I'm both, as well as unbelieveably good looking...you fucking losers)

It's as simple as that.

uh... sorry dude, I'm a Cinderella: responsible for (cleaning up) everybody else's shit since the age of 6.

'course, that made me very good at taking care of business so now I get to cash in.

me, I think it's more the stories we get told when we're little: I was always The Smart One, my brother was The Sporty One and my sis The Pretty One. Lo and behold, that's what we ended up as being while honestly, my brother and sister really have the same brain capacity as me, they were just never encouraged to use it consistently.

Sei'taer
01-25-2012, 09:16 AM
uh... sorry dude, I'm a Cinderella: responsible for (cleaning up) everybody else's shit since the age of 6.



You just made my point.

http://www.imagesdisney.com/images/images-cinderella-g.jpg

Gilshalos Sedai
01-25-2012, 09:21 AM
LOL, Cinderella isn't the same as Princess Ella. Which is what she would have been called after finding her Prince.

yks 6nnetu hing
01-25-2012, 09:42 AM
You just made my point.

http://www.imagesdisney.com/images/images-cinderella-g.jpg

As if. If finding a Prince were enough to Solve All Our Problems, I'd be one lucky girl indeed.

Besides, unlike Cinderella, I never had a Fairy Godmother to provide the glass slippers and ball dresses so I never actually got the "prince" but instead got the lovely musician, which in th elong run is actually nicer seeing as there are less desperate hags throwing themselves at him and I don't get the label "golddigger"

DaiShan1981
01-25-2012, 10:00 AM
I'd like to chime in and say that I actually do most of the dishes, even if you do most of the laundry :-P

Also, I'm going to take this
As if. If finding a Prince were enough to Solve All Our Problems, I'd be one lucky girl indeed.
as a huge compliment :-D
And I love you too, by the way :)

Ishara
01-25-2012, 10:45 AM
When women are little, they are princesses and that carries on throughout their lives. They expect to be princesses and when another princess horns in on their territory, it ruins their kingdom.

Men are told to get up and walk it off. don't be a puss. That kind of thing. So the toughest guy, be it mentally tough or physically tough, is the one in charge. (lucky for me, I'm both, as well as unbelieveably good looking...you fucking losers)

It's as simple as that.

uh... sorry dude, I'm a Cinderella: responsible for (cleaning up) everybody else's shit since the age of 6.

'course, that made me very good at taking care of business so now I get to cash in.

me, I think it's more the stories we get told when we're little: I was always The Smart One, my brother was The Sporty One and my sis The Pretty One. Lo and behold, that's what we ended up as being while honestly, my brother and sister really have the same brain capacity as me, they were just never encouraged to use it consistently.

LOL - and very true yks.

Maybe it's because my parents were not born here, but I was NEVER told that I was a princess, or special as a child. I was encouraged to problem-solve, walk it off and deal with it - which I usually did for the most part.

Now that's not to say that I am not a princess now, LOL. I can be, for sure. But NOT at work, that's just inappropriate. I keep my diva ways at home where I can be taken care of (and take care of, in turn) as I justly deserve. ;)

What Dav is describing does sound like a nightmare of a workplace, but it mostly sounds to me like people are bored. Busy, engaged employees don't bother with that bullshit. So they either all hate their jobs, or they're bored, or both.

yks 6nnetu hing
01-25-2012, 11:11 AM
I'd like to chime in and say that I actually do most of the dishes, even if you do most of the laundry

Yes, that is your Princely duty and is very much appreciated indeed.

Crispin's Crispian
01-25-2012, 11:18 AM
This seems like an appropriate place to post something that was floating around my Facebook world yesterday.

http://i.imgur.com/A0zdV.jpg

And if you want to read the roughly proofread version:

http://survivingu.com/images/stories/college_isnt_really_necassary.jpg

Davian93
01-25-2012, 11:22 AM
This seems like an appropriate place to post something that was floating around my Facebook world yesterday.


And if you want to read the roughly proofread version:

http://survivingu.com/images/stories/college_isnt_really_necassary.jpg

Hopefully that was satire? Though I've met a good number of females that believe that strategy 100%.

fdsaf3
01-25-2012, 11:48 AM
I've given serious thought to marrying rich. If I didn't have to worry about money, I'd spend the next 5-7 years getting a few advanced degrees, volunteering, writing, and doing other mostly non-profitable stuff. I'd settle into a career, but never work more than 25 hours a week. I would have absolutely no problem being a trophy husband, either. Want to dress me up and take me to fancy galas? Not a problem. I can be ready to go in 10 minutes.

Cor Shan
01-25-2012, 01:40 PM
No idea...for whatever reason, women seem to have a far more flexible social order that falls into more constant disagreements then men whereas men fall into a defined chain of command rather easily.

Well something that one seminar taught me was that men are, as you said, hierarchical - in my case, I'm faster than you, therefore I am higher ranked than you. In other contexts it might be I make more money than you, I have a hotter girl than you, etc. Incredibly useful to manipulate guys in sports contexts then, as my goal of getting them to train hard matches their goal of gaining dominance over each other.

Women, on the other hand, rank themselves by "social connectedness" - so trying to ostracize/socially damage one another is a basic way of removing competition in the hierarchy.

I don't know if its really valid, but it is an interesting take on it.

Davian93
01-25-2012, 01:48 PM
Well something that one seminar taught me was that men are, as you said, hierarchical - in my case, I'm faster than you, therefore I am higher ranked than you. In other contexts it might be I make more money than you, I have a hotter girl than you, etc. Incredibly useful to manipulate guys in sports contexts then, as my goal of getting them to train hard matches their goal of gaining dominance over each other.

Women, on the other hand, rank themselves by "social connectedness" - so trying to ostracize/socially damage one another is a basic way of removing competition in the hierarchy.

I don't know if its really valid, but it is an interesting take on it.

Sounds pretty valid to me....other than the part where you think you're faster than me.

We need to arrange a foot match to determine that.

Ivhon
01-25-2012, 02:04 PM
I find gender roles and our assumption of them to be fascinating (and sometimes enraging).

Of particular interest to me now as the father of a feisty 9 month old daughter is how - in an age where women are becoming increasingly dominant in the workplace and particularly in school - the social norms are still dictated by men and boys - witness the incredibly stupid shit girls do to get what they think is boys' approval in comparison with the slightly less stupid shit boys do to actually get boys' approval. Why is that? I honestly don't know....part of me thinks that the cultural conditioning for girls to be quiet and defer to boys is still well and strong despite the closing and reversing of the achievement gap.

On the other hand, Im seeing signs - in places like standup comedy for example - that women are finding a distinctly feminine voice (as compared with trying to be male) - that is independent from fitting into a male world. Which I love. I can't stand female comics that try to do male humor.

If I can do nothing else as a parent, I want my child to be able to hold her head up as a woman and not feel the need to "be" anything for anyone else. I want her to be this sassy kid as a 15 year old and in college and as an adult.

Im babbling. Shutting up now.

Crispin's Crispian
01-25-2012, 02:43 PM
Sounds pretty valid to me....other than the part where you think you're faster than me.

We need to arrange a foot match to determine that.

I make more money and have a hotter girl than both of you, so I win.

Er...I mean, I can be the race referee if you want. :)

Crispin's Crispian
01-25-2012, 02:49 PM
If I can do nothing else as a parent, I want my child to be able to hold her head up as a woman and not feel the need to "be" anything for anyone else. I want her to be this sassy kid as a 15 year old and in college and as an adult.

Im babbling. Shutting up now.

I hear you. Just...be ready for your girl to be a total girl. My wife and I try to be the most egalitarian, non-dramatic, low-stereotype parents in the world. But our daughter still acts like a floofy, prissy princess at least half the time. The other half she's doing handstand pushups and building Lego sculptures, so I guess there's that...

Davian93
01-25-2012, 03:17 PM
I hear you. Just...be ready for your girl to be a total girl. My wife and I try to be the most egalitarian, non-dramatic, low-stereotype parents in the world. But our daughter still acts like a floofy, prissy princess at least half the time. The other half she's doing handstand pushups and building Lego sculptures, so I guess there's that...

Its almost as if there are other major influences on a child besides the parental units...like their peers, teachers, coaches, television, society as a whole, etc etc.

Ivhon
01-25-2012, 03:17 PM
Its almost as if there are other major influences on a child besides the parental units...like their peers, teachers, coaches, television, society as a whole, etc etc.

You are NOT helping.....:mad:

Sei'taer
01-25-2012, 03:51 PM
Its almost as if there are other major influences on a child besides the parental units...like their peers, teachers, coaches, television, society as a whole, etc etc.

The first 6 years of my daughters life we didn't have a TV. She hung with me most of the time an I taught her to play soccer and softball, taught her how to fight, how to cook, and a lot of other stuff. Mostly I just taught her how to take care of herself and I didn't know how to be a girl or play girl stuff so I taught her how to be a boy.

She still wanted to play house and dress-up and be a princess...even though she was mean as a snake and tougher than most of the boys.

My favorite story is how one of her first boyfriends tried to pull the old "the car broke down way out here on this lonely road in buttfuck mississippi. She whipped his butt, broke all the lights out of his car (Her quote was "he said the car was broke, so I gave him something to fix on it") and then walked 9 miles home.

She's going to art school now. I never knew anyone in my family had talent like that.


this was my christmas present:
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i187/seitaer9/taylorflowers.jpg

Y'all may not like it and the picture sucks (because I took it) but I think it's beautiful.

Isabel
01-25-2012, 04:01 PM
The painting looks great, Sei'taer!

Terez
01-25-2012, 04:10 PM
My favorite story is how one of her first boyfriends tried to pull the old "the car broke down way out here on this lonely road in buttfuck mississippi. She whipped his butt, broke all the lights out of his car (Her quote was "he said the car was broke, so I gave him something to fix on it") and then walked 9 miles home.Did she press charges? That shit makes me sick.

Crispin's Crispian
01-25-2012, 04:20 PM
Its almost as if there are other major influences on a child besides the parental units...like their peers, teachers, coaches, television, society as a whole, etc etc.

Sure, but she's been like this since before anyone else had any real impact on her. We never, ever discouraged it, because she is going to be whom she is going to be. It's just funny that some of the things we take as gender stereotypes might actually have a biological basis. I have no idea why the color pink is one of those things.

DaiShan1981
01-25-2012, 04:46 PM
Awesome painting, 'Taer! No need for a pre-emptive defense! :)

Sei'taer
01-25-2012, 04:53 PM
Did she press charges? That shit makes me sick.

All she could do was file a police report. Nothing actually happened but I asked her to do file a report so it would be on record if he pulled that on someone who didn't know how to handle themselves like she did.

Sei'taer
01-25-2012, 04:55 PM
Awesome painting, 'Taer! No need for a pre-emptive defense! :)

The picture I took doesn't do it justice. That's all I was saying.

She was going to set up an Etsy account. I don't know if she did or not though.

Davian93
01-25-2012, 05:35 PM
Awesome painting, 'Taer! No need for a pre-emptive defense! :)

I also like the painting...FWIW.

Sei'taer
01-25-2012, 07:39 PM
Awesome painting, 'Taer! No need for a pre-emptive defense! :)

This is my other favorite. She just sold this one yesterday.

I forget what she calls that kind of art. Simplistic style or something.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i187/seitaer9/taylorpeacock.jpg

lord Mordeth
01-25-2012, 10:50 PM
It's just funny that some of the things we take as gender stereotypes might actually have a biological basis. I have no idea why the color pink is one of those things.

Actually, I've read that 100 years ago pink was considered a boy's colour and blue, for girls. Pink, being close to red, was viewed as sanguine, while blue was viewed as 'soft' and therefore better suited to girls.

yks 6nnetu hing
01-26-2012, 03:39 AM
On the other hand, Im seeing signs - in places like standup comedy for example - that women are finding a distinctly feminine voice (as compared with trying to be male) - that is independent from fitting into a male world. Which I love. I can't stand female comics that try to do male humor. I watched an otherwise unremarkable romcom called "no strings attached" - but it had this absolutely BRILLIANT scene where the guy makes the girl a mixed CD, for her period. "Sunday bloody Sunday", "I've got the world on a string", "Bleeding Love"... That was possibly the funniest bit of comedy I've seen in years.

Actually, I've read that 100 years ago pink was considered a boy's colour and blue, for girls. Pink, being close to red, was viewed as sanguine, while blue was viewed as 'soft' and therefore better suited to girls.
http://www.nwcandlemaking.com/images/sans/magenta-100x100.jpg

Magenta - nowadays associated mainly with women, because, well... it's hot pink, really - is the colour necessary to mix Royal Purple. Can't mix proper purple with simple red. However, the colour is very difficult to achieve with non-chemical means, and back in the day it was extremely expensive. Hence, anyone who could afford Royal Purple or Magenta-coloured clothes were very powerful indeed. Hence, the colour of the Pope's hat.

Psychologically, certain colours have a certian effect on *most* people: Red agitates, blue and green soothe, yellow makes happy, orange makes hungry (hence, NOT a good colour for a kitchen/dining room) etc. Surprisngly enough, soft pink tends to calm people which is why it's sometimes used as wall paint in maximum security prisons. Also perhaps the reason why little girls like it - it's easy on the eye and doesn't "scream" in your brain.

Davian93
01-26-2012, 07:46 AM
Magenta - nowadays associated mainly with women, because, well... it's hot pink, really - is the colour necessary to mix Royal Purple.

I thought it came from a certain type of conch shell that lives in the Meditterrean...one that was fairly rare and difficult to process into dye too.

DaiShan1981
01-26-2012, 03:47 PM
So I guess we're all agreed then? Gays should be able to get married? ;)

Cor Shan
01-27-2012, 12:34 AM
]orange makes hungry (hence, NOT a good colour for a kitchen/dining room) etc.

You mean therefore its the best colour for a kitchen dining room.

GonzoTheGreat
01-27-2012, 03:34 AM
So I guess we're all agreed then? Gays should be able to get married? ;)
I dunno. I'm tempted to protect them from that torture. It seems like a cruel and usual punishment to me.

Crispin's Crispian
01-27-2012, 10:45 AM
So I guess we're all agreed then? Gays should be able to get married? ;)

Only if they can agree on the proper color to paint their dining room.

bowlwoman
01-28-2012, 11:39 AM
Anyway you mentioned the Welsh? My mum is Welsh

Sheep shaggers the lot of them:D

So, are you the baby, Neil, the baby?

DaiShan1981
01-29-2012, 03:29 PM
A little birdie told me today that you used to go by another name, dawg. I guess I might've known from the "Oregon" and the HotH status, but really I've been away plenty long enough that whole regiments of Heroes could've come and gone, from Oregon or elsewhere. So I'm glad to see you're still around, and now after Zombie Sammael and you I'm wondering if this place is really filled with different people of if everyone has simply taken a new nick.
Don't tell me Bela is here too? Moonshadow? Infidel? Eclipse? 4Alethinos? Sodas/Xoduz? Any others I've missed?

confused at birth
01-29-2012, 03:50 PM
So, are you the baby, Neil, the baby?


24 hours since I read this and I still dont know what it means

Terez
01-29-2012, 06:19 PM
Don't tell me Bela is here too? Moonshadow? Infidel? Eclipse? 4Alethinos? Sodas/Xoduz? Any others I've missed?None of these people are really around much. That actually might be my fault in the case of three of them.

DaiShan1981
01-30-2012, 03:52 AM
I know them a little bit, and I wouldn't give myself quite so much credit if I were you ;)

Uno, Callandor, no?

GonzoTheGreat
01-30-2012, 03:58 AM
I know them a little bit, and I wouldn't give myself quite so much credit if I were you ;)
Obviously, if you were her then you would be giving yourself as much credit as she is giving herself, since if you didn't, then you wouldn't be her.

Uno, Callandor, no?
Uno is now and then sort of still somewhat around, a bit. Callandor almost never, though he makes a surprise appearance once a decade or so. I don't know about no.

Zombie Sammael
01-30-2012, 05:18 AM
Sei'taer was able to summon Firseal, and Strange Package PM'd me not long ago, so it is possible to get people back. Possible, but difficult.

DaiShan1981
01-30-2012, 05:49 AM
Obviously, if you were her then you would be giving yourself as much credit as she is giving herself, since if you didn't, then you wouldn't be her.
A discussion on the nature of being? Really? I know we lost the point of this thread a long time ago, but still...

GonzoTheGreat
01-30-2012, 05:59 AM
A discussion on the nature of being? Really? I know we lost the point of this thread a long time ago, but still...
You started it. Or Terez did. Or there's no difference. Whatever.

Figbiscuit
01-30-2012, 04:47 PM
So, are you the baby, Neil, the baby?

One of the best TV shows produced in recent times.

Who gives a hoot if gay people get married, and what the hell they call it. It beggars my belief that as a race we still judge homosexual relationships as wrong. It's been going on FOREVER!

My bedroom is a pale lime green colour and I find very restful, although the OH likened it at first to sleeping inside a tube of toothpaste, and

Sei, those pictures are lush, your daughter is clearly very talented and someone I would not like to get on the wrong side of.

Did that cover it all?

ETA: Nope, just thought, wanted to ask confused just where he came from in the good old U of K that he only knew ONE black family. One??

confused at birth
01-30-2012, 04:51 PM
Nope, just thought, wanted to ask confused just where he came from in the good old U of K that he only knew ONE black family. One??

Hampshire

Yep, lots of asians lots of indians one black family. there just wasnt very many black people in my area.
there were a few other families I just didnt know them and had no connection to them

so yes I only KNEW one

Figbiscuit
01-30-2012, 04:54 PM
Hampshire

Yep, lots of asians lots of indians one black family. there just wasnt very many black people in my area.
there were a few other families I just didnt know them and had no connection to them

Ah I see. Sorry, my bad for mis-reading.

Sei'taer
01-30-2012, 05:07 PM
Sei, those pictures are lush, your daughter is clearly very talented and someone I would not like to get on the wrong side of.



She's on etsy, but I don't even know how etsy works so it doesn't help much for me to look at everything she's done.

Figbiscuit
01-30-2012, 05:18 PM
She's on etsy, but I don't even know how etsy works so it doesn't help much for me to look at everything she's done.

That's OK, I don't even know what etsy is...

Sei'taer
01-30-2012, 05:31 PM
That's OK, I don't even know what etsy is...

Then we're in the same boat. Evidently there's a bunch of stuff up there I've never seen. Maybe I'm not supposed to see it?

GonzoTheGreat
01-31-2012, 03:19 AM
Then we're in the same boat. Evidently there's a bunch of stuff up there I've never seen. Maybe I'm not supposed to see it?
Based on the (very little) googling I've just done on etsy (and one other search term), there is indeed a distinct possibility that your daughter wouldn't want you to look too deeply into it.

Figbiscuit
01-31-2012, 07:26 AM
*goes off to google etsy*

Ishara
01-31-2012, 08:28 AM
She's on etsy, but I don't even know how etsy works so it doesn't help much for me to look at everything she's done.

LOL - you people! etsy is awesome!! It's an online marketplace for people who make stuff. I used to sell my jewellery on etsy - it's easy and cheap and can be pretty fun.

I've bought our kitties' collars and engraved tags (from differernt sellers), our wedding invitiations, our save-the-date magnets, various pieces of jewellery including the earrings I wore in our wedding, baby clothes for friends, hand dyed-hand-woven yarn for a good friend, outdoor banners to advertise a dressage barn (for my step-mum), purses and these glorious beauties: you park like shit" static cling stickers. (http://www.etsy.com/listing/62215810/you-park-like-shit-static-cling-parking) Anything you can think of, someone makes - and sells, on etsy.

Taer, you need to know either her username or her Shop name to search for your daughter - the art section is HUGE, so those are the 2 easiest ways to search.