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View Full Version : It appears that Joe Paterno will probably die soon - maybe tonight


fdsaf3
01-21-2012, 05:58 PM
If he does, I hate that the conversation will revolve around the child abuse thing and not his life, his legacy, or any of his accomplishments.

Still, a sad story all around.

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2012/01/21/report-joe-paterno-is-gravely-ill-family-and-friends-to-say-their-goodbyes/

Davian93
01-21-2012, 06:08 PM
Maybe he shouldnt have raped all those kids.


What's that? He didnt? He didnt have anything to do with that?

Oh, wow, odd they keep ripping him for it then instead of Sandusky.

fdsaf3
01-21-2012, 06:11 PM
I agree. Even the posts so far in this thread are about the abuse and not celebrating his life as would normally happen when someone dies.

It's sad.

Sinistrum
01-21-2012, 06:34 PM
Maybe he should have called the cops when he found out someone was raping all those kids, shouldn't have stayed silent, and shouldn't have abused his position of authority and the respect the public gave him to help cover up all those kids getting raped in order to protect something as stupid and inane as a college football program and his own selfish, prideful place in it.

What's that? That's exactly what he did? Well gee. No wonder he's getting ripped even though he's about to die. And its not even the tiniest bit sad either. You aide and abet child abuse and you deserve to have your grave spit on.

Davian93
01-21-2012, 06:42 PM
He told the police commissioner personally...and there are doubts at to what McCreary even told him as his story has changed several times now.

Sinistrum
01-21-2012, 06:59 PM
He told the police commissioner personally...and there are doubts at to what McCreary even told him as his story has changed several times now.

Bullshit. He told a university bureaucrat who wasn't a certified peace officer in Pennsylvania and did absolutely nothing to follow up on that report despite continuing to see Sandusky on campus up until he was brought before a grand jury to testify and he was told that there was something explicitly sexual going on.

http://www.freep.com/assets/freep/pdf/C4181508116.PDF

Its either that or her perjured himself to a state grand jury and either way it contributed to the cover up.

Davian93
01-21-2012, 07:00 PM
Last I checked, the DA didnt feel he did anything illegal...as no charges were ever considered against him.

Sinistrum
01-21-2012, 07:08 PM
Last I checked, the DA didnt feel he did anything illegal...as no charges were ever considered against him.

That is literally the STUPIDEST thing I've ever seen you say Davian. C'mon man! You're better than that. Just because you haven't done something criminal doesn't mean you haven't done something morally reprehensible. I know you're smart enough to know the difference between a legal and a moral duty/failing.

Davian93
01-21-2012, 07:13 PM
That is literally the STUPIDEST thing I've ever seen you say Davian. C'mon man! You're better than that. Just because you haven't done something criminal doesn't mean you haven't done something morally reprehensible. I know you're smart enough to know the difference between a legal and a moral duty/failing.

I think the people that wrote the reporting laws in PA had the moral failing more than JoePa. As far as he knew, he did what he was supposed to do based on a secondhand report of actions he never witnessed.

Ivhon
01-21-2012, 08:28 PM
I think the people that wrote the reporting laws in PA had the moral failing more than JoePa. As far as he knew, he did what he was supposed to do based on a secondhand report of actions he never witnessed.

I called CPS last week based on a secondhand report of actions I never witnessed.

Had I not, I would have lost my job and license. There would not have been criminal charges pressed against me.

Davian93
01-21-2012, 08:32 PM
I called CPS last week based on a secondhand report of actions I never witnessed.

Had I not, I would have lost my job and license. There would not have been criminal charges pressed against me.

I think you're comparing apples and oranges there based on the different jobs involved.

Ivhon
01-21-2012, 09:03 PM
I think you're comparing apples and oranges there based on the different jobs involved.

Not really. Any job that deals with minors and children - and the scope of Paterno's job certainly included that - absolutely should include strict obligations to protect those minors and children from predators. [EDIT] - My wife, who is an educator like Paterno, also has had to call CPS based on a second hand report
of incidents she never actually witnessed.

For the record, each of those kids Sandusky molested is going to require roughly $50k of therapy or more over roughly 3+ years. The damage is incredible.

I'm not going to beat the dead horse of the arguments why Paterno did not do enough and deserved to lose his job. Nothing has changed on that front.

I do not think for a second that he developed terminal cancer overnight the day he was fired. Its been there. Just the coincidence of detection.

I am hugely curious, though, why we celebrate people who made major to horrible mistakes just because they are dying or dead. You want to give Paterno a pass because he did some good things and is dying. I'm all for acknowledging the good that he did, but still. I don't think it changes anything.

More extreme is Michael Jackson. The guy was reviled as a freakshow child molester until the day that he died. Then its wailing in the streets bemoaning the loss of the greatest musician of all time. I don't get it.

Davian93
01-21-2012, 09:09 PM
Technically, his job involved all adults as his "students" were all 18 or older. THe kids involved were personal guests of another individual.


Overall, I agree he was in the wrong but I'm sick of his reputation/life being destroyed for this...especially on a day where he's dead/dying. The man did a ton more good in his life than bad. I just hope time gives that some perspective and he's remembered for that.

I do not think for a second that he developed terminal cancer overnight the day he was fired. Its been there. Just the coincidence of detection.

He didnt...the article is wrong. He was diagnosed last summer from all reports. It was just released to the public after he was fired.

I think its ironic that Michael Jackson, a guy who actually molested little kids was basically beatified when he died but JoePa is being destroyed for something he never even did.

Davian93
01-21-2012, 09:09 PM
Dude, did you edit in the MJ thing? Too funny as I wrote the same thing before seeing it.

Ivhon
01-21-2012, 09:32 PM
Dude, did you edit in the MJ thing? Too funny as I wrote the same thing before seeing it.

Nah, the edit was the bit about my wife. I try to mark where my edits are

EDIT: Kinda like this :D

I guess I take what you might consider a harsh stance on this because A) as mentioned above, the damage done not only to the children but everyone they ever form close relationships with is intense (I have to see a therapist to deal with what gets stirred up in me when I hear some of the stories - and that's only an hour a week) and B) the call is SO BLOODY EASY to make.

Res_Ipsa
01-21-2012, 11:31 PM
Everyone thinks politics is vitriolic but I am pretty sure sports fans take the cake. Then again, I have not really followed the Joe Paterno scandal other than to name a few trivia teams after it.

Rand al'Fain
01-22-2012, 09:55 AM
It has been confirmed that Joe Paterno has died.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=dw-wetzel_joe_paterno_obituary_012212

bowlwoman
01-22-2012, 02:40 PM
Seriously gotta wonder how much the whole situation took its toll on him. He went downhill fast.

Regardless of his complicity in the abuse cases, it's all over now for him.

RIP, Paterno.

Rand al'Fain
01-22-2012, 05:52 PM
Love him or hate him, Joe Paterno was a hell of a coach and always encouraged class and education for his players.

confused at birth
01-22-2012, 05:55 PM
Love him or hate him, Joe Paterno was a hell of a coach and always encouraged class and education for his players.

its just a pity these came with a sore ass and lubrication

Davian93
01-22-2012, 06:28 PM
its just a pity these came with a sore ass and lubrication

Dude...seriously, just stop.

Zaela Sedai
01-22-2012, 07:02 PM
I;m with you Dav. While I do think Paterno was at fault for a few things, he doesn't deserve comments such as CaB's.

confused at birth
01-22-2012, 08:06 PM
It wasnt aimed at him and it wasnt intended to be funny it was it is intended to show my disgust for anyone who thinks any good he did during his life should matter anymore.

once you allow harm to happen to any child either through negligence or deliberately all the good things you have done should be erased.

As far as im concerned everyone involved that failed should never be allowed to forget that failure and their name should never be clean again no matter who they had been before.

there should be he was a hell of a coach just because hes dead

StrangePackage
01-22-2012, 08:35 PM
Dude...seriously, just stop.

Yeah, seriously. You're way out of line.

There's absolutely no indication that there was any lubrication.

Sinistrum
01-22-2012, 09:57 PM
There's absolutely no indication that there was any lubrication.

HA!

Terez
01-24-2012, 05:30 PM
I was just about to thank you for posting that Ihvon. Partly because of this:

From
The National Center for Victims of Crime (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/01/22/1057341/www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CGwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ncvc.org%2Fncvc%2Fmain.aspx%3 FdbName%3DDocumentViewer%26DocumentID%3D32315&ei=dGocT7idCcrw0gHavPSlCw&usg=AFQjCNGNrhEwkr523Ik2wXobUreqcv7Bgg&sig2=3wEwORqVmRGRdLxyru81rA)
Symptoms of Child Sexual Abuse
Many sexually abused children exhibit physical, behavioral and emotional symptoms. Some physical signs are pain or irritation to the genital area, vaginal or penile discharge and difficulty with urination. Victims of known assailants may experience less physical trauma because such injuries might attract suspicion (Hammerschlag, 1996).

Behavioral changes often precede physical symptoms as the first indicators of sexual abuse (American Humane Association Children's Division, 1993). Behavioral signs include nervous or aggressive behavior toward adults, sexual provocativeness before an appropriate age and the use of alcohol and other drugs. Boys "are more likely than girls to act out in aggressive and antisocial ways as a result of abuse" (Finkelhor, 1994). Children may say such things as, "My mother's boyfriend does things to me when she's not there," or "I'm afraid to go home tonight."
Some friends of mine were telling me recently about one of them who had an ex-girlfriend who babysat for a very young boy (less than 3 years old). Apparently all of them had been at the girl's house when she was babysitting the boy, and they told me...(pretty awful stuff)
...that the boy was often out of control in various ways, and that one of the things he liked to do was stick a hairbrush handle in his butt, that he would take off his diaper to do so, and run around the house with the hairbrush sticking out of his butt, and that sometimes he would prop a leg up and dig in with his fingers.
And of course, I've never read any warnings like the one above, but it was pretty freaking obvious to me that this kid was being abused. What kind of toddler would even think of doing something like that? And my friends agreed, and said the kid ended up being pretty messed up as a teenager, but they haven't seen him since then. And it just makes me sick. One phone call, and maybe they could have at least prevented it from going on until the kid was old enough to remember it in detail.

Ivhon
01-24-2012, 05:38 PM
You are quick.

I chose to delete because that article could be extraordinarily triggering to someone and I don't know anyone's history to accidentally subject them to that.

I would consider it responsible to not post the article here.

Terez
01-24-2012, 05:44 PM
I think you gave pretty fair warning. But as you can see, I didn't repost the link.

Sinistrum
01-24-2012, 07:44 PM
If its the same link that I saw SP post on facebook from the daily kos then I agree 100% with it. The excuse making and eulogizing of paterno is almost as sickening as what sandusky did. Everyone who is doing such needs to read it. And then maybe they will feel the appropriate level of shame for giving paterno a pass. Fuck Joe Paterno. Fuck him right in the ear with a two by four.

Firseal
01-25-2012, 01:44 AM
Let me add my voice to the agrees. Paterno deserves every bit of condemnation and ridicule he gets. And it isn't in spite of what he did and how so many people look up to him and say he's a paragon and all that crap.

It's because of it.

The man acted in perhaps one of the filthiest ways a man can act. Let him be covered in it. Because if we let him get away with having done horrible things because he was excellent otherwise, we open the door to other people not stepping up or doing horrible things and justifying themselves. People want to keep Paterno as a role model?

Let him be a role model for all those who do wrong knowingly and pay for it by having their names blackened. Let him be a role model for letting the victims know those that support even by silence and hide the crimes even by ommission of their tormentors shall suffer punishment.

Should we do this to Paterno today, and in the days following an admitably terrible death? Not in particular. Since we should do it whenever he comes up. It's called a stigma because it doesn't go away. So let's not let his appologists wipe it away and pretend the man wasn't steeped in shit.

The greatest tragedy about his death isn't how he is remembered. It's that he lacked the time or the inclination to truly atone.