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Toss the dice
02-03-2012, 01:00 PM
While Mat has saved the Supergirls' bacon more than one time, it has suddenly struck me how much Mat has done for Elayne in particular, concerning things of a direct nature.


- Delivered Elayne's letter to her mother.

- Overheard Rahvin talking to Gaebril about cutting Elayne's head off, and setting out for Tear. Culminated in Mat saving Elayne from the dungeon in the Stone.

- Ran the White Lions out of Andor.

- Saved Elayne from the gholam in Ebou Dar.

- Helped Elayne and Nynaeve bargain with the Sea Folk.

- Let Elayne borrow the foxhead medallion for three days, allowing her to copy it and helping to save her life.

- Rid Caemlyn of the gholam.

- Gave Elayne the Dragon technology.

- Gave Elayne partial/temporary charge of the Band of the Red Hand, helping her gain Cairhien.


Am I missing any? I'm not counting anything indirect Mat has done, because that would be a very difficult and long list to compile. You know, it's kind of funny. Saving the world aside, what has Rand directly done for Elayne? And no, I don't count mutual things.

- Killed Rahvin. This kind of counts.

- Gave her Caemlyn. Or at least would have, if Elayne had not insisted on gaining the throne herself.

- Gave her a much easier time gaining Cairhien.

That's all I can really think of. And none of them really count 100%, since they all had to be done anyway and Elayne was basically just given the scraps. I'm not bashing Rand at all, and he has a great excuse as the DR, not to mention a lack of time being around her. I just find it amusing how many things Mat has done for Elayne and Rand so few.

Gilshalos Sedai
02-03-2012, 01:10 PM
This is why some of us think Mat and Elayne would have made a much better couple than who they actually ended up with.

JOS
02-03-2012, 01:25 PM
....what has Rand directly done for Elayne? And no, I don't count mutual things.

- Killed Rahvin. This kind of counts.

- Gave her Caemlyn. Or at least would have, if Elayne had not insisted on gaining the throne herself.

-Knocked her up. (not mutual technically, as he isn't pregnant ...)

While this may seem trite, Elayne keeps using the fact that her babies will be born healthy to act like she is invincible. So, we could also say that Rand:

-Gave Elayne license to act like a bad ass while with child.

Toss the dice
02-03-2012, 01:34 PM
-Knocked her up. (not mutual technically, as he isn't pregnant ...)

While this may seem trite, Elayne keeps using the fact that her babies will be born healthy to act like she is invincible. So, we could also say that Rand:

-Gave Elayne license to act like a bad ass while with child.

I disagree pretty much all the way around. Unsure whether you're joking about the knocking up not being mutual, but I generally didn't count that stuff, as it concerns their intimacy (and so mutual-ness). I suppose you could count it as giving Elayne an heir(s) though.

I disagree that he gave Elayne a license to act like a bad ass with child. First off, it was Elayne that stupidly gave HERSELF a license to act like a bad ass, even after Birgitte explained the foolishness of it. Secondly, even if I did count this as valid, I would give it to Min before I would give it to Rand. It was her viewing, not his. Her children were merely a variable/condiiton in that viewing.

JOS
02-03-2012, 02:32 PM
I disagree pretty much all the way around. Unsure whether you're joking about the knocking up not being mutual, but I generally didn't count that stuff, as it concerns their intimacy (and so mutual-ness). I suppose you could count it as giving Elayne an heir(s) though.

I disagree that he gave Elayne a license to act like a bad ass with child. First off, it was Elayne that stupidly gave HERSELF a license to act like a bad ass, even after Birgitte explained the foolishness of it. Secondly, even if I did count this as valid, I would give it to Min before I would give it to Rand. It was her viewing, not his. Her children were merely a variable/condiiton in that viewing.

I did mean it tongue in cheek.

You are absolutely right that Rand hasn't done much for Elayne. The evidence that Mat has done more for Elayne than Rand has is strong enough to support a theory that Min's vision of three women sharing Rand could already be fulfilled. I don't think there is any pattern reading (Min) or prophecy that says that she can't move on to someone new (especially if he dies or starts using Moridin's body, etc). We know her mother was able to move on without much issue, though the men didn't fare as well (murder, death warrant, banishment, and balefire).

Mat, however, is a different issue. So far as prophecy, he has already fulfilled it and may conceivably have no further obligation to Tuon (though it looks like it will tie into the last book to some extent). But there are those pesky Mat and Tuon outrigger novels ... which indicate they probably stay together.

Basically, if it weren't for the quotes and rumors about the outriggers, I would say that it would be entirely possible that Mat could end up with Elayne.

Weiramon
02-03-2012, 02:42 PM
I don't think there is any pattern reading (Min) or prophecy that says that she can't move on to someone new (especially if he dies or starts using Moridin's body, etc). We know her mother was able to move on without much issue, though the men didn't fare as well (murder, death warrant, banishment, and balefire).



Aye, the Lady Elayne promoted that morsel Guybon to captain quite abruptly - I hesitate to say unseemly haste . . .

And it is well known she is with child by that Hanlon fellow.

David Selig
02-03-2012, 08:25 PM
You are forgetting the awesome gift Rand sent Elayne - the captured sul'dam and damane. ;)

fionwe1987
02-03-2012, 08:37 PM
Why, exactly, does Rand have to "do" anything for Elayne? They're not allies, or business partners!

And those who think Elayne and Mat would make a great couple... by that token, so would Egwene and Rand, or Min and Perrin. All of which is meaningless in the face of who they actually fall for.

EvilChani
02-04-2012, 12:23 AM
Why, exactly, does Rand have to "do" anything for Elayne? They're not allies, or business partners!

Agreed. If anyone wants to get into that kind of game, what the hell has Elayne done for Rand other than bang his brains out and publicly (and privately) bash him for saving her country from a Forsaken?

And, for the record, I think Mat and Elayne would make a terrible couple. Elayne acts like a douche around him, treating him like he's her "subject" or servant and is always manipulating him or trying to get control of him and his bloody army. Honestly, most of the time I don't dislike Elayne, but put her around Mat, Rand, Perrin, or have her even think of Rand, and I want someone to smash her face into pulp.

And those who think Elayne and Mat would make a great couple... by that token, so would Egwene and Rand, or Min and Perrin. All of which is meaningless in the face of who they actually fall for.

Meh. It's all subjective, really. I think Mat and Elayne would be awful together (worse than Mat and Tuon), would not want Rand cursed with Egwene as a significant other for even five minutes (the man has enough pain and aggravation, after all, he doesn't need a woman who thinks he should never use his head and act like her mindless, obedient slave), and I have never heard anyone suggest Min with Perrin...that is...interesting, but Perrin is perfect with Faile. And Min is the only one of Rand's three women who actually loves him, in my opinion.

eht slat meit
02-04-2012, 01:17 AM
And, for the record, I think Mat and Elayne would make a terrible couple. Elayne acts like a douche around him, treating him like he's her "subject" or servant and is always manipulating him or trying to get control of him and his bloody army. Honestly, most of the time I don't dislike Elayne, but put her around Mat, Rand, Perrin, or have her even think of Rand, and I want someone to smash her face into pulp.


It wouldn't be the first time that RJ's played out that relationship dynamic/trope into a romance, albeit rather more creepily, in other books. Theoretically, yeah, it should make for a terrible couple, unless they realize they're madly in love/lust and stop acting like 'tards toward each other.

Not something I'm really interested in seeing, though, as both characters are already nicely rounded out with flaws/strengths without adding something like that into it. And at this point, unless Mat has a thing for pregnant women, we wouldn't see it before the end of AMoL anyway, likely.

GonzoTheGreat
02-04-2012, 03:15 AM
Technically, Mat chased the White Lions out of Cairhien, not out of Andor.

And he also thumped her brothers, teaching Galad some humility in the process.

Rand sort of volunteered to let Elayne test her nursing and bandaging skills on him. That seemed to make her quite happy.

Rand also gave her an opportunity to get snippy with Galad and order Gawyn around, two more things that tend to make her happy.

And he gave her what had been meant to be an artifical flower.

Zombie Sammael
02-04-2012, 09:46 AM
I think I actually like the idea of Mat and Elayne as BFFs than I do as lovers. It certainly seems more entertaining; just having soulmates end up together is boring, but making them very good friends adds a level of tension to their other relationships that wouldn't otherwise be there.

Abbaaddon
02-04-2012, 11:02 AM
Overheard Rahvin talking to Gaebril about cutting Elayne's head off, and setting out for Tear. Culminated in Mat saving Elayne from the dungeon in the Stone

Ain't Gaebril and Rhavin the same person ?

Zombie Sammael
02-04-2012, 12:02 PM
Ain't Gaebril and Rhavin the same person ?

Oh God, here we go. Real vs Construct all over again. :p

Toss the dice
02-04-2012, 12:50 PM
Lol sorry, they are the same person. I remember thinking "Gaebril and Comar" but then I debated for a half-second whether to use Gaebril or Rahvin, and Rahvin won out. Naturally, the end result (due to my internal half-second debate) became "Gaebril and Rahvin" instead of "Rahvin and Comar." Make sense?

Toss the dice
02-04-2012, 12:58 PM
Why, exactly, does Rand have to "do" anything for Elayne? They're not allies, or business partners!

You reek of bias. I could explain even further than I have, regarding this topic, but if you refused to understand what I was getting at in my original post, it would be pointless. Since zealous bias is in my opinion slightly more respectful than the alternative, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and go with that.

fionwe1987
02-04-2012, 01:25 PM
You reek of bias. I could explain even further than I have, regarding this topic, but if you refused to understand what I was getting at in my original post, it would be pointless. Since zealous bias is in my opinion slightly more respectful than the alternative, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and go with that.
You reek of a person who doesn't even know what bias means, thinks its a cool sounding word that'll make people think you're clever, and use it...

confused at birth
02-04-2012, 01:33 PM
what the hell has Elayne done for Rand other than bang his brains out

I spent 5 minutes trying to figure out when she had hit him, I was going over the story trying to remember and when I got to where she isd preggers I thuoght I must of missed it and then it clicked

I think I actually like the idea of Mat and Elayne as BFFs than I do as lovers. It certainly seems more entertaining; just having soulmates end up together is boring, but making them very good friends adds a level of tension to their other relationships that wouldn't otherwise be there.

I think they would kill each other if they ended up lovers but to have them as best friends works for me. Elayne can be the best friend he invites over that his wife doesnt approve of, if only she smoked cheap cigars and had a motorbike she would be the perfect old college buddy for Tuon to hate

Zombie Sammael
02-04-2012, 02:15 PM
I spent 5 minutes trying to figure out when she had hit him, I was going over the story trying to remember and when I got to where she isd preggers I thuoght I must of missed it and then it clicked



I think they would kill each other if they ended up lovers but to have them as best friends works for me. Elayne can be the best friend he invites over that his wife doesnt approve of, if only she smoked cheap cigars and had a motorbike she would be the perfect old college buddy for Tuon to hate

Plus the fact that RJ has placed Tuon and Mat's descendants into a position similar to the Royal Family of England prior to the loss of the French territories. As Kings they ranked equal with the King of France, but as Dukes of Normandy they were vassals of the King of France, and thus inferior to him. Mat and Tuon's descendants are in similar positions; the Seanchan Empress would probably be thought to outrank the Queen of Andor (though perhaps not, or not by much) but as Andoran subjects Mat's children would be inferiors of Elayne, unless he renounced his Andoran citizenship. Elayne could make this even stronger by enobling Mat. In fact, it would be one way to get around the problem of her being marath'damane (whilst not dealing with the larger damane problem); if Tuon attempted to have her collared and her titles forfeited, her actions in enobling Mat would also be undone, which would probably cause her some difficulties, not least with her husband. Of course, collaring Elayne would cause their marriage to collapse in the space of seconds after Mat found out anyway.

Toss the dice
02-04-2012, 03:06 PM
You reek of a person who doesn't even know what bias means, thinks its a cool sounding word that'll make people think you're clever, and use it...

That's probably the worst comeback I've ever heard. In this case I would give you the benefit of the doubt and chalk it up to you not being serious, but not only would that completely negate and make your post pointless, but you actually do seem serious.

Usually when people dig holes for themselves during discussions or debates, it is a gradual thing and the other party had something to do with it. I can honestly say that your current hole-digging was all you and astonishingly sudden. I almost feel like a nature explorer stumbling upon some exotic and extremely rare species out in the wild, one that I never expected to see.

Thank you for the special treat.

fionwe1987
02-04-2012, 03:52 PM
That's probably the worst comeback I've ever heard. In this case I would give you the benefit of the doubt and chalk it up to you not being serious, but not only would that completely negate and make your post pointless, but you actually do seem serious.

Usually when people dig holes for themselves during discussions or debates, it is a gradual thing and the other party had something to do with it. I can honestly say that your current hole-digging was all you and astonishingly sudden. I almost feel like a nature explorer stumbling upon some exotic and extremely rare species out in the wild, one that I never expected to see.

Thank you for the special treat.
:rolleyes: Your all faff and no substance, aren't you? If you have an argument against my point that Rand doesn't have to "do" anything for Elayne, the make it. If not, at least spare us your meaningless posts with the sorry attempts at sarcasm.

Toss the dice
02-04-2012, 04:33 PM
:rolleyes: Your all faff and no substance, aren't you? If you have an argument against my point that Rand doesn't have to "do" anything for Elayne, the make it. If not, at least spare us your meaningless posts with the sorry attempts at sarcasm.

First off, it would probably help if you read my original post again, then read your comments, my rebuttals, etc. Then come back here.

Your comment asking why Rand HAS to do anything for Elayne was one where you were misunderstanding from the start. My OP was about Mat, not Rand. It was merely an observation about how much Mat has done for Elayne, and as a sidenote, how little Rand has done. But I'm not bashing Rand whatsoever or expected him to "do more." The last paragraph of my OP explains this.

You ran into this thread demanding to know why Rand has to do anything for Elayne, as if you were affronted at the vileness that I was implying, as if I was saying he was worthless, lazy, or didn't deserve her. The thread wasn't even about Rand, and it certainly wasn't about Rand's lack of doing things for Elayne. That's why I said you reek of bias, because you did. You misunderstood (well more like mangled) the entire gist of my original post's point. You created something that wasn't there and ran to defend Rand al'Thor from the imaginary attacker that only you saw. As we know, it went downhill (or rather underground) from there.

For what it's worth, you could have lost more points. At least it was Rand and not Egwene.

Abbaaddon
02-04-2012, 04:54 PM
Oh God, here we go. Real vs Construct all over again.
Sorry, I didn't mean to play Captain Obvious here, but as I can be really stupid and stubborn sometimes I'd rather have this pointed out as a typing error than some theory I hadn't read and would have made me look like a fool not knowing ^^.
I recognize it may be rough to post only to underline a mistake and I apologize for that =)

fionwe1987
02-04-2012, 04:57 PM
First off, it would probably help if you read my original post again, then read your comments, my rebuttals, etc. Then come back here.
I did. And you going off to the deep end still has no explanation...

Your comment asking why Rand HAS to do anything for Elayne was one where you were misunderstanding from the start. My OP was about Mat, not Rand. It was merely an observation about how much Mat has done for Elayne, and as a sidenote, how little Rand has done. But I'm not bashing Rand whatsoever or expected him to "do more." The last paragraph of my OP explains this.
You said, "I just find it amusing how many things Mat has done for Elayne and Rand so few. "

The implication in that statement is that you expect Rand to have done more for her than Mat. If that isn't what you meant, your post is even more meaningless. As far as I know, I never accused you of bashing Rand. All I said was that just because Rand and Elayne are in a relationship, there is no reason for Rand to "do" things for Elayne.

You ran into this thread demanding to know why Rand has to do anything for Elayne, as if you were affronted at the vileness that I was implying, as if I was saying he was worthless, lazy, or didn't deserve her.
Wow... how touchy can you get? If you'd stop being a drama queen for a minute, you'd see that I've implied no such thing anywhere at all. The central thesis of your post is that it is a little weird that Mat has done more for Elayne than Rand, and I merely questioned why the hell that is of any relevance.

The thread wasn't even about Rand, and it certainly wasn't about Rand's lack of doing things for Elayne. That's why I said you reek of bias, because you did. You misunderstood (well more like mangled) the entire gist of my original post's point. You created something that wasn't there and ran to defend Rand al'Thor from the imaginary attacker that only you saw. As we know, it went downhill (or rather underground) from there.
1) Your original post barely had a point.
2) I wasn't defending Rand.
3) Here's how bias is defined:
a particular tendency or inclination, especially one that prevents unprejudiced consideration of a question; prejudice.

Are you stating I'm prejudiced towards Rand over Elayne or Mat? I'd like some evidence for that, if so.

If you don't have any evidence, then, as I said, your usage of the word bias is wrong.

For what it's worth, you could have lost more points. At least it was Rand and not Egwene.
Well, hard as it may be to believe, I'm not looking for points, especially from you. And if you want to be taken seriously, stop believing your "stinging" judgments are going to make your point for you, and actually make a coherent argument.

Toss the dice
02-04-2012, 05:50 PM
You said, "I just find it amusing how many things Mat has done for Elayne and Rand so few. "

The implication in that statement is that you expect Rand to have done more for her than Mat. If that isn't what you meant, your post is even more meaningless. As far as I know, I never accused you of bashing Rand. All I said was that just because Rand and Elayne are in a relationship, there is no reason for Rand to "do" things for Elayne.

This is where you went wrong. That comment I said above I mean exactly how it is said. I say tomato and you think I'm implying microwave. Again, my entire point was about Mat, not Rand. There WAS no point in the above statement, no grand declaration, no mysterious meaning behind the words. I literally meant that...well, I think it's amusing how many things Mat has done for Elayne and Rand so few. That's it. My primary point was all about Mat, at how much he's done for Elayne.

As for the rest of your post, all I gotta say is that you're fucking crazy. You can think what you wish and I could care less, but know this:

- I'm not out to argue with people or stir up drama.

- I mean EXACTLY what I say. When I type something in this forum, it is exactly what I'm thinking. I don't say shit just for giggles, for other reasons, etc. I say what I think and what I believe. There are no extraneous motives.

- Like in real life, online I'm a good guy, as well as a considerate, intelligent, and open-minded guy. The only thing is that I give short shrift to any sort of nonsense. If someone's being an asshole, jerk, or dumb idiot -- they become exempt from the above traits of mine. That's just how I am. I say what I mean and mean what I say, whether it's good or bad, or I like you or dislike you. No extraneous motives, remember. Life is too short for that crap, not to mention being a horribly fake person. (like most people are)

P.S. I didn't just call you a horribly fake person. (aka microwave)

fionwe1987
02-04-2012, 06:23 PM
This is where you went wrong. That comment I said above I mean exactly how it is said. I say tomato and you think I'm implying microwave. Again, my entire point was about Mat, not Rand. There WAS no point in the above statement, no grand declaration, no mysterious meaning behind the words. I literally meant that...well, I think it's amusing how many things Mat has done for Elayne and Rand so few. That's it. My primary point was all about Mat, at how much he's done for Elayne.
Well, if you find it amusing with no reason for that amusement, then your whole post was completely without a point, and a waste of this board's time, no?

As for the rest of your post, all I gotta say is that you're fucking crazy. You can think what you wish and I could care less, but know this:

- I'm not out to argue with people or stir up drama.
Except that's all you've done.
- I mean EXACTLY what I say. When I type something in this forum, it is exactly what I'm thinking. I don't say shit just for giggles, for other reasons, etc. I say what I think and what I believe. There are no extraneous motives.
And yet, here you are twisting my statement, assuming motives not in evidence... hypocrisy much?
- Like in real life, online I'm a good guy, as well as a considerate, intelligent, and open-minded guy. The only thing is that I give short shrift to any sort of nonsense. If someone's being an asshole, jerk, or dumb idiot -- they become exempt from the above traits of mine. That's just how I am. I say what I mean and mean what I say, whether it's good or bad, or I like you or dislike you. No extraneous motives, remember. Life is too short for that crap, not to mention being a horribly fake person. (like most people are)
Wow.. you're certainly good at chest-thumping self praise. And while I'm glad you have such a good opinion of yourself (surprise, surprise!), I think you just tanked your case when you used your own good opinion of yourself to counter arguments raised against your statements.

Anyway, I'm done with this. I'm not wasting any more space on this forum discussing how you overreact and dramatize a personally rational response to your post. Keep thinking you're the bestest nicest smartest whatever...

David Selig
02-04-2012, 06:32 PM
Plus the fact that RJ has placed Tuon and Mat's descendants into a position similar to the Royal Family of England prior to the loss of the French territories. As Kings they ranked equal with the King of France, but as Dukes of Normandy they were vassals of the King of France, and thus inferior to him. Mat and Tuon's descendants are in similar positions; the Seanchan Empress would probably be thought to outrank the Queen of Andor (though perhaps not, or not by much) but as Andoran subjects Mat's children would be inferiors of Elayne, unless he renounced his Andoran citizenship.
I don't think that's how things work. If Tuon remains the Empress, Mat's children would be Seanchan, and not subjects to another monarch. Just like the children of the countless foreign born queens consort throughout European histories were considered the nationality of their husband the King except when the mother's heritage was used to get the throne of another country.

Things seem to be the same in Randland, only the genders are often reversed since there are way more queens regnants than in real history. Taringail's children are considered Andoran and there's no indications that anyone thought of them as Cairhien subjects.

confused at birth
02-04-2012, 06:35 PM
Plus the fact that RJ has placed Tuon and Mat's descendants into a position similar to the Royal Family of England prior to the loss of the French territories. As Kings they ranked equal with the King of France, but as Dukes of Normandy they were vassals of the King of France, and thus inferior to him. Mat and Tuon's descendants are in similar positions; the Seanchan Empress would probably be thought to outrank the Queen of Andor (though perhaps not, or not by much) but as Andoran subjects Mat's children would be inferiors of Elayne, unless he renounced his Andoran citizenship. Elayne could make this even stronger by enobling Mat. In fact, it would be one way to get around the problem of her being marath'damane (whilst not dealing with the larger damane problem); if Tuon attempted to have her collared and her titles forfeited, her actions in enobling Mat would also be undone, which would probably cause her some difficulties, not least with her husband. Of course, collaring Elayne would cause their marriage to collapse in the space of seconds after Mat found out anyway.

Nope not going to think in a way that compares that twerp Elayne to any of Englands queens. Ok I would compare her to Elton John but only because I think they would be happy to share a wardrobe

Davian93
02-04-2012, 07:15 PM
Why, exactly, does Rand have to "do" anything for Elayne? They're not allies, or business partners!

And those who think Elayne and Mat would make a great couple... by that token, so would Egwene and Rand, or Min and Perrin. All of which is meaningless in the face of who they actually fall for.

You're right...the 4 days that Rand & Elayne have spent together over 2+ years is far more realistic of a relationship than Mat & Elayne.


And, for the record, I think Mat and Elayne would make a terrible couple. Elayne acts like a douche around him, treating him like he's her "subject" or servant and is always manipulating him or trying to get control of him and his bloody army. Honestly, most of the time I don't dislike Elayne, but put her around Mat, Rand, Perrin, or have her even think of Rand, and I want someone to smash her face into pulp.

Yes, such a thing would never work...I mean a princess and a scoundrel falling for each other, I cant even picture what that might look like.

http://www.anakinsangel.net/han_leia_shoulder_1_.jpg

Zombie Sammael
02-04-2012, 07:39 PM
I don't think that's how things work. If Tuon remains the Empress, Mat's children would be Seanchan, and not subjects to another monarch. Just like the children of the countless foreign born queens consort throughout European histories were considered the nationality of their husband the King except when the mother's heritage was used to get the throne of another country.

Things seem to be the same in Randland, only the genders are often reversed since there are way more queens regnants than in real history. Taringail's children are considered Andoran and there's no indications that anyone thought of them as Cairhien subjects.

I think it would probably require Mat to be given some sort of Andoran title, then. Which is still well within the bounds of possibility, and probably will play into whatever accommodation has to be reached between the Randland monarchs and the Empire.

Toss the dice
02-04-2012, 08:55 PM
Well, if you find it amusing with no reason for that amusement, then your whole post was completely without a point, and a waste of this board's time, no?
You've got to be kidding me. It's almost impressive how badly you twist things as a natural ability.

I found that concept of that statement amusing. It is a completely separate thing than the point of my post, to point out all the things Mat has done for Elayne.


Except that's all you've done.
Says the person who started this whole thing, with something they created in their own imagination, a misunderstanding on your part. And the hole-digging continues even now. I've tried rationally explaining myself, but trying to discuss this with you is like talking to a five-year-old.

And yet, here you are twisting my statement, assuming motives not in evidence... hypocrisy much?
Which statement of yours did I twist? I mean this seriously, of course. I've already told you more than once which statement of mine you originally twisted (I think I used "mangled"), go ahead and tell me which one of yours I did. If I did, I'll own up to it.

Wow.. you're certainly good at chest-thumping self praise. And while I'm glad you have such a good opinion of yourself (surprise, surprise!), I think you just tanked your case when you used your own good opinion of yourself to counter arguments raised against your statements.
I'm honest. Everywhere I look I see psychopaths and bad people that have zero empathy and don't care whatsoever about others. I also happen to be intelligent (qualify for MENSA to be brief, I'll leave it at that). I'm a very modest person and at least in terms of intelligence, I count that as fairly low on the life importance list. That paragraph of mine (as well as the other similar points) had absolutely nothing to do with our discussion itself, but I figured I would give you a little background info about myself. Maybe you could see where I was coming from or give you a better slant on what I was saying. As I should have expected, you misunderstood it and took it completely the wrong way. Do you seriously believe I would use my own opinion of myself to counter arguments that have absolutely nothing to do with it? What the hell is wrong with you? Do you naturally just assume the very worst in people, or is it that you simply are closed-minded and can't accept any idea or concept, however trivial, that may break through the shell of your teeny-tiny worldview?

Anyway, I'm done with this. I'm not wasting any more space on this forum discussing how you overreact and dramatize a personally rational response to your post. Keep thinking you're the bestest nicest smartest whatever...
That sounds like a good plan. You were getting close to China and we don't want them angry with us.

fionwe1987
02-04-2012, 09:20 PM
Given the current state of affairs, does Tuon even rank higher than Elayne? I mean, Tuon basically rules Amadicia, Tarabon and Altara, whereas Elayne rules Andor-Cairhein, and heads an alliance that currently includes Ghealdan, Mayene, and likely Saldea. Plus, the Two Rivers, the Black Tower, and the Kin are now in her realm. And the Aiel are her allies, and the Dragon Reborn is her lover and father of her children. Plus, she's Aes Sedai, and personal friend of the Amyrlin... that's a rather large amount of influence and power.

eht slat meit
02-04-2012, 09:41 PM
Given the current state of affairs, does Tuon even rank higher than Elayne? I mean, Tuon basically rules Amadicia, Tarabon and Altara, whereas Elayne rules Andor-Cairhein, and heads an alliance that currently includes Ghealdan, Mayene, and likely Saldea. Plus, the Two Rivers, the Black Tower, and the Kin are now in her realm. And the Aiel are her allies, and the Dragon Reborn is her lover and father of her children. Plus, she's Aes Sedai, and personal friend of the Amyrlin... that's a rather large amount of influence and power.

Just to nitpick, but Mayene is a minor nation to the extreme, and Saldaea, once Maradon falls, can probably be officially considered the next Malkieri.

BT probably has a serious problem until Logain fixes it, which leaves Elayne strong on defensive, but weak on offensive.

As Rand is put in a situation of being forced to accept a truce, I don't see her having equal power to the Mainland Seanchan Empire.

fionwe1987
02-04-2012, 10:10 PM
Just to nitpick, but Mayene is a minor nation to the extreme, and Saldaea, once Maradon falls, can probably be officially considered the next Malkieri.
Why do you assume Maradon will fall, though?

BT probably has a serious problem until Logain fixes it, which leaves Elayne strong on defensive, but weak on offensive.
We can be fairly certain Logain will fix it.

As Rand is put in a situation of being forced to accept a truce, I don't see her having equal power to the Mainland Seanchan Empire.
Militarily? The Seanchan are better off, especially with Damane. I'm talking more in terms of overall power/prestige.

EvilChani
02-04-2012, 10:21 PM
You're right...the 4 days that Rand & Elayne have spent together over 2+ years is far more realistic of a relationship than Mat & Elayne.



Yes, such a thing would never work...I mean a princess and a scoundrel falling for each other, I cant even picture what that might look like.

http://www.anakinsangel.net/han_leia_shoulder_1_.jpg

Grr! Using a Star Wars reference against a Star Wars geek is cheating...

But Leia was, at least, decent to Han at times...and way cooler than Elayne. She was also more direct in her mistreatment of him instead of trying to manipulate him or bat her eyelashes at him to get him to do her bidding.

If anything, it would be more apt to compare her with Padme, little miss "Yes, I'm wearing a leash and my tits are bursting out of my dress, and yeah I stuck my tongue down your throat, but don't look at me like that!" It's no wonder Anakin went batshit crazy...

eht slat meit
02-04-2012, 10:31 PM
Why do you assume Maradon will fall, though?

Because the rest of the Borderlands, including most of Saldaea, have apparently ceased to exist as of Towers of Midnight. Maradon is it, and its continued existence is in question after getting wrecked so badly.

Might be safe if the invaders can't be bothered to finish it off.

We can be fairly certain Logain will fix it.

In the futures, yes, but in the meantime...

Militarily? The Seanchan are better off, especially with Damane. I'm talking more in terms of overall power/prestige.

In terms of power, maybe, but. Greater military might and prowess tends to trump power unless power is ta'veren or has it operating on its behalf. Prestige? Not sure if that counts for anything.

fionwe1987
02-04-2012, 11:42 PM
Because the rest of the Borderlands, including most of Saldaea, have apparently ceased to exist as of Towers of Midnight. Maradon is it, and its continued existence is in question after getting wrecked so badly.

Might be safe if the invaders can't be bothered to finish it off.

I never got the feeling the Borderlands had ceased to exist. They have a ton of trollocs attacking them, like in the Trolloc Wars, but that doesn't mean they're done completely. And Maradon basically pushed back about 2-3 million Trollocs. They won't send huge armies there all that soon.

In the futures, yes, but in the meantime...
In the meantime, she still has an incredibly close alliance with the WT.

In terms of power, maybe, but. Greater military might and prowess tends to trump power unless power is ta'veren or has it operating on its behalf. Prestige? Not sure if that counts for anything.
It counts for a lot when the prestige of being the mother of the Dragon's children is included...

eht slat meit
02-05-2012, 12:25 AM
I never got the feeling the Borderlands had ceased to exist. They have a ton of trollocs attacking them, like in the Trolloc Wars, but that doesn't mean they're done completely. And Maradon basically pushed back about 2-3 million Trollocs. They won't send huge armies there all that soon.

The other two points are speculative future issues, so I'll leave them and stick to addressing this with a couple quotes from ToM.


"If Saldaea was in such a state with one of the great captains leading the defense, I can only guess what the other Borderland nations are suffering." ~ ch38

We have no idea how many Trollocs proceeded south after successsfully invading Maradon (prior to getting smoked by Rand), but we are given a pretty good notion of just what state the other Borderland nations are in...


"The Trollocs rampaged to the south, the towers had all fallen. Kandor itself had fallen." ~ epilogue

That doesn't leave much information on the -other- Borderlands, but since the Borderland armies are gone, it's safe to guess they're in a dire state. At the very least, because Kandor got et and the Blight is moving south.

Then there's the fact that the remaining defenders are drawing to Lan's banner for the Last Battle. That doesn't leave much of a defense.

Twelve thousand strong isn't much, but...

Zombie Sammael
02-05-2012, 05:41 AM
Given the current state of affairs, does Tuon even rank higher than Elayne? I mean, Tuon basically rules Amadicia, Tarabon and Altara, whereas Elayne rules Andor-Cairhein, and heads an alliance that currently includes Ghealdan, Mayene, and likely Saldea. Plus, the Two Rivers, the Black Tower, and the Kin are now in her realm. And the Aiel are her allies, and the Dragon Reborn is her lover and father of her children. Plus, she's Aes Sedai, and personal friend of the Amyrlin... that's a rather large amount of influence and power.

You can infer a lot from the fact that we know what the outriggers were going to be about. Tuon's not stupid. She knows that the chaos in her homeland is a weakness she can't allow the other rulers to know about, but at the same time, her eagerness to return to Seanchan and set things straight there will affect her negotiating position. In any case, her existing military might coupled with the imagined threat of her vast empire should be enough for her to get what she wants out of the Randland rulers, as soon as both they and she work out what that actually is.

GonzoTheGreat
02-05-2012, 06:05 AM
Onless somebody pops over there to check on whether or not the claims of her might are justified. Once a couple of Asha'man return and tell everyone that things are rather chaotic over there, and that no one in Seanchan even believes Tuon still lives, the monarchs won't be too eager to believe that she can easily call upon reinforcements from that quarter.

Zombie Sammael
02-05-2012, 08:25 AM
Onless somebody pops over there to check on whether or not the claims of her might are justified. Once a couple of Asha'man return and tell everyone that things are rather chaotic over there, and that no one in Seanchan even believes Tuon still lives, the monarchs won't be too eager to believe that she can easily call upon reinforcements from that quarter.

That might be rather difficult, considering they'd be gating in essentially blind. You still have to vaguely know the area you're gating into. Aviendha got there through pure dumb luck.

GonzoTheGreat
02-05-2012, 08:36 AM
That might be rather difficult, considering they'd be gating in essentially blind. You still have to vaguely know the area you're gating into. Aviendha got there through pure dumb luck.
So it might take them half an afternoon of preparation. Big deal, that.

"Make a gateway opening 100 miles west of the coast of Randland. If all you see is sea, close it. Make one 100 miles west of that. If all you see is sea, close it. Repeat until you see land. Send a scouting party through."

Sure, you might get wet feet and ruin a bit of grass with salt spray until you learn to do it properly (ie. make the openings appear 5 miles up in the air), but apart from that: no big deal. Edited to add: if you use the "5 miles up" option, then the scouting party might appreciate it if you give them a gateway that comes out on the surface.

Zombie Sammael
02-05-2012, 08:48 AM
So it might take them half an afternoon of preparation. Big deal, that.

"Make a gateway opening 100 miles west of the coast of Randland. If all you see is sea, close it. Make one 100 miles west of that. If all you see is sea, close it. Repeat until you see land. Send a scouting party through."

Sure, you might get wet feet and ruin a bit of grass with salt spray until you learn to do it properly (ie. make the openings appear 5 miles up in the air), but apart from that: no big deal. Edited to add: if you use the "5 miles up" option, then the scouting party might appreciate it if you give them a gateway that comes out on the surface.

It would be far easier to just get a Seanchan Captive or former Damane/Sul'dam to simply describe Seandar to you. Or to teach Travelling to a former Damane/Sul'dam you trust.

GonzoTheGreat
02-05-2012, 09:22 AM
Or to recruit a Seanchan male Asha'man. Yes, for this specific purpose, there may be more convenient workarounds. However, for scouting in general, the scheme which I described would work at least as well as the method which Rand used when defended Illian.

Enigma
02-05-2012, 12:51 PM
Part of what would make Tuon's forces powerful at least in the medium term is her knowledge of the Seanchan way of running a state. The Seanchan are a superpower because they run their empire very efficiently, otherwise how could they maintain such hugh standing armies? Several hundred thousand men and women were sent to the Westlands. Even with our modern technology that takes a lot of infastructure. Think of the ships that have to be built the food and equipment that have to be stockpiled etc.

The nations that Tuon currently control many not have been major players but that is more to do with the fact that they have very weak central kings or queens. If the Seanchan way of doing things takes hold they have the potential to be a major powerhouse.

In summary Tuon may not be able to call up vast reinforcements any more but any of the rules who know anything about the way the Seanchan run their affairs will also know that in the long run Tuon's mini empire might outgrow them so better to cut a deal now when the infastructure Tuon has to work with is weaker.

Of course after the Last Battle who knows what the situation either military or economic will look like.

Seeker
02-05-2012, 01:28 PM
Elayne: Mat! I thought you had decided to stay.

Mat: Yeah, well that gholam we ran into in Ebou Dar changed my mind.

Elayne: Mat, we need you!

Mat: We need... How about you need?

Elayne: I don't know what you're talking about.

Mat: Probably don't.

Elayne: And what precisely am I supposed to know?


Mat: Come on! You want me to stay because of the way you feel about me.


Elayne: Yes! You're a great help to us! You're a natural leader!

Mat: No. That's not it... Come on.


Elayne: You're imagining things.

Mat: Am I? Then why are you following me? Afraid I'd leave without giving you a good-bye kiss?

Elayne: I'd just as soon kiss an ogier!

Mat: I can arrange that! You could use a good kiss!

Seeker
02-05-2012, 01:46 PM
Well, if you find it amusing with no reason for that amusement, then your whole post was completely without a point, and a waste of this board's time, no?


Except that's all you've done.

And yet, here you are twisting my statement, assuming motives not in evidence... hypocrisy much?

Wow.. you're certainly good at chest-thumping self praise. And while I'm glad you have such a good opinion of yourself (surprise, surprise!), I think you just tanked your case when you used your own good opinion of yourself to counter arguments raised against your statements.

Anyway, I'm done with this. I'm not wasting any more space on this forum discussing how you overreact and dramatize a personally rational response to your post. Keep thinking you're the bestest nicest smartest whatever...


Am I the only one who thinks this guy takes WOT way too seriously?

sleepinghour
02-05-2012, 01:47 PM
Am I the only one who thinks this guy takes WOT way too seriously?
I think we're all guilty of that.

Seeker
02-05-2012, 02:17 PM
Maybe but every time I talk to Fionwe1987, I get the sense that he takes offense whenever someone disagrees with him. I think Mat and Elayne would have been adorable together, he disagrees. Okay.

The difference is I don't get mad that he disagrees. He also seems to assume that people who disagree with him are either lying to themselves or twisting things to suit their conclusions. It doesn't seem to occur to him that different people might read the same words and reach different conlusions.

It's not just this thread, he's done it several times now and it's annoying.

fionwe1987
02-05-2012, 07:42 PM
You can infer a lot from the fact that we know what the outriggers were going to be about. Tuon's not stupid. She knows that the chaos in her homeland is a weakness she can't allow the other rulers to know about, but at the same time, her eagerness to return to Seanchan and set things straight there will affect her negotiating position. In any case, her existing military might coupled with the imagined threat of her vast empire should be enough for her to get what she wants out of the Randland rulers, as soon as both they and she work out what that actually is.

As others pointed out, this would be rather easy to check.

And, as things stand now, Elayne and the White Tower do have one big advantage over the Seanchan. Their armies are more mobile. With links, humungous gateways can be made which can basically allow 50000 soldiers to cross, with tons of equipment, far faster than the damane can manage. That should count for a lot, if it comes down to war.

Re Seeker:

It would be nice if you actually read the thread before speaking. I made a rather simple, non-offensive statement that Rand doesn't have to do anything for Elayne, which several people agreed with. It was the guy who started the thread who took offense, accused me of being biased, that I was too defensive of Rand, that I don't belong in Mensa, and a whole load of extraneous crap.

eht slat meit
02-05-2012, 08:06 PM
that I don't belong in Mensa

Entry into Mensa is based on WoT fandom now? Holy crap, totally turning my application in.

fionwe1987
02-05-2012, 08:35 PM
Entry into Mensa is based on WoT fandom now? Holy crap, totally turning my application in.
Its the other way around, unfortunately. Being a member of Mensa apparently means your posts should be more respected in a WoT forum... or something. Its not very clear. :p

Zombie Sammael
02-06-2012, 07:12 AM
I only signed up to Mensa for the free coat.

yks 6nnetu hing
02-06-2012, 07:36 AM
a few intersting quotes:


TITLE: Crown of Swords
CHAPTER: 13 - The Bowl of the Winds


"About what?" Elayne asked absently. "Our search. We prepare for success, but we are as far away as when we began. Does it make sense not to use every weapon at hand? Mat Cauthon is ta'veren, yet we work to avoid him. Why not take him with us? With him, we might find the bowl at last."

"Mat?" Nynaeve exclaimed incredulously. "As well stuff your shift full of nettles! I would not endure the man if he had the bowl in his coat pocket."

"Maybe," Birgitte murmured dryly, "you had Mat the scoundrel set so hard in your mind, you couldn't see he had any use." Elayne gave her a cool stare, chin raised, then abruptly grimaced, and nodded reluctantly. She did not accept criticism easily.


And:

TITLE: The Gathering Storm
CHAPTER: 44 - Scents Unknown
The keep itself was a towering rock of a structure, sheer walls broken only by windows. Except that she could still spot the place where Mat had destroyed a section of stone with his Illuminator's fireworks when coming to rescue Nynaeve and the others from their imprisonment. Fool boy. Where was he? She hadn't seen him in... in quite a long time. Since Ebou Dar had fallen to the Seanchan. In a way, she felt as though she'd abandoned him, though she'd never admit that. Why, she'd embarrassed herself enough in front of the Daughter of the Nine Moons when she'd defended that scoundrel! She still didn't know what had come over her. Mat could care for himself. He was probably carousing in some inn while the rest of them worked to save the world—drinking himself silly and playing at dice. Rand was another matter. He'd been so much easier to deal with when he'd continued to act like other men—stubborn and immature, but predictable. This new Rand with the cold emotions and the cold voice was truly unnerving.

Davian93
02-06-2012, 07:42 AM
You know, it actually annoys me that they didnt end up together...huge miss by RJ.

Grig
02-06-2012, 10:31 AM
It would be far easier to just get a Seanchan Captive or former Damane/Sul'dam to simply describe Seandar to you.

No need. To Travel you only need to know where you're leaving from. You need to know where you're going to Skim.

Oden
02-06-2012, 01:05 PM
To arrive at a specific destination, you need to know exactly were you are and have a general idea of how it's like were you're going to (see Grady and Elyas when going to Malden).

Davian93
02-06-2012, 01:11 PM
I did like Rand's little workaround on knowing your location when he just opened a gate within sight of where he was and then traveled to his destination as the first gate made him "know" exactly where he was instead of waiting. Its shocking that no other channeler thought that one up (outside of AoL travelers for whom it was probably SOP)

Grig
02-06-2012, 01:51 PM
(see Grady and Elyas when going to Malden).

That's not a necessity for actually Travelling. That's a necessity for not getting a spear stuck in you when you get there.

GonzoTheGreat
02-06-2012, 03:16 PM
I did like Rand's little workaround on knowing your location when he just opened a gate within sight of where he was and then traveled to his destination as the first gate made him "know" exactly where he was instead of waiting. Its shocking that no other channeler thought that one up (outside of AoL travelers for whom it was probably SOP)
That method could indeed be used for ocean crossings, if you are quick enough. Still, I think I would prefer mine, though that would be less exciting.

Seeker
02-06-2012, 10:33 PM
You know, it actually annoys me that they didnt end up together...huge miss by RJ.

Hey, Dav.

Mat: I'm not in this to save the world, princess, and I'm not in it for you. I'm in it for the money.

Elayne: You needn't worry. If money is all you love then that's what you'll receive.

*to Rand*

Your friend is quite a mercenary. It's a wonder if he cares about anything. or anyone.

Rand: I care.

Grig
02-07-2012, 10:04 AM
Rand: You're my cousin.

Elayne: I know. Somehow, I've always known.

...you know, maybe there is something to this Mat and Elayne thing.

eht slat meit
02-07-2012, 11:35 AM
Elayne: I know. Somehow, I've always known.


Quote and parallel is rather disturbing in light of the sexual shenanigans between the two.

Of course, that's not new ground for RJ either, so maybe.

Yick.

Davian93
02-07-2012, 12:05 PM
Quote and parallel is rather disturbing in light of the sexual shenanigans between the two.

Of course, that's not new ground for RJ either, so maybe.

Yick.

So yeah, there's a solid 4 years of plot time between New Hope and Jedi. Do we really think that nothing EVER happened between Luke & Leia in that time period. I mean, she made out with him using tongue in Empire indicating that some heavy flirting had been going on up to that point at least.

So yeah, sick sick sick.

Heinz
02-09-2012, 02:54 PM
Too distant of cousins to matter, as it was explained to us of course. Unfortunately for the intrueging possibility of Mat-Elayne.. the veins of gold are another nail in that coffin. :-P I agree though, that might have been a more interesting couple. I haven't minded Tuon by any means, but Mat and Elayne have had some amusing moments. More amusing than Tuon and Mat (at least to me).

And according to Star Wars lore in-between the movies.. nothing happened, no. Not even more kisses that I recall. Probably more of a revenge, 'I'm gonna make the guy (Han) pay for being a jerk!' kiss when Leia kissed Luke in the movies.

And that whole topic is about as light-hearted and joking as the original post.

Rand al'Fain
02-10-2012, 07:04 PM
Rand: You're my cousin.

Elayne: I know. Somehow, I've always known.

...you know, maybe there is something to this Mat and Elayne thing.

They're about as related to each other as I am to James Joyce (early 20th century century Irish novelist and poet, and I come from an American branch of the Joyce's, but the name seems to be rather common in Western Ireland). In that, you have to go back centuries to find a common ancestor.

Toss the dice
02-10-2012, 07:32 PM
Before you read this: Please don't judge me... I'm just sharing my story because people asked...
Wow... okay, I wasn't sure if I was ever going to tell anyone about this, but it's late and I'm sleep deprived so i guess I'll just write it now and regret it in the morning :/
First of all, - just for some background: My mom died right when I was born, (she was actually really, really hot- but this isn't about her. I guess that's ****ed up to say, but whatever.) I actually grew up with my dad's family, because my dad has all sorts of emotional issues and he bailed before I was born. So you can see, my childhood was really kind of messed up.
Anyways, growing up I feel like there was always a lot of distance between me and my sister. When I was about 17 or 18 I first noticed that my sister was a hottie.
I don't want to go into too many details about it, but basically what happened is that I accidentally found a video that she made of herself. I knew she didn't make it for me- but I thought she was so ****ing beautiful that I watched it twice. I probably would have watched it a hell of a lot more, except that like right around the time I found the video, all this crazy shit went down and I had to leave home. (My dad's family who I was staying with got in bad trouble with the law. I never talk about it).
Sooo... I was totally lusting after my sister at that point. She was also having bad trouble with the law. She was actually in custody when I left home.
My friend and I went to go pick her up. When I saw her that day, after seeing the video, I have to be honest, I just wanted to **** her brains out. Looking back on it now, it's pretty messed up- but I think she had feelings for me too. She actually kissed me right after we came to get her... and it wasn't a sisterly kiss, you know? I mean, it wasn't like ridiculously sexual or anything, but it definitely wasn't sisterly.
After we left, we all went to crash with my Sister's friends. On the trip there, my friend sort of implied that he wanted to get with my Sister, and I got a little jealous. He's a good looking guy- and even though she was my sister- I just felt like he was competition. Not much else happened between us for a while except some maybe-sexy hugging.
Pretty much everyone in my life at that point was wanted by the government, so we all moved around a lot. I'm not saying that I'm proud of it or anything, but it was kind of an awesome time.
My friend and my sister never hooked up I don't think- but I thought there was some serious sexual tension going on between them. It was around that time that I got really badly hurt in an accident. It was ****ed up. I almost died. But when I was in recovery my sister came to see me, and out of the clear blue sky she started gives me this awesome, slow, passionate kiss on the lips.
Sadly (although, I guess for the best) nothing ever came of it. We spent some time apart... and I started to get really religious, so I tried not to think of her that way. It was actually going well for a long time- like I was totally over her. But I have to say, like a year or so after all that stuff went down, we were out sailing (not like a date or anything romantic like that), and she was wearing like the hottest bikini I've ever ****ing seen and it brought back all the old feelings. Sigh.
A little while later she actually wound up with my friend from before (the sexual tension guy). I can't say I was surprised.
But even after she was shacking up with my friend, there was one time we were at a party... my friend was inside, and my sister and I were outside alone. It was a really intimate moment. I think something might have happened, except that I killed the mood when I told her that Darth Vader was our father and that I had to go face him.

Brita
02-10-2012, 08:19 PM
So, did you grow up with your sister, or separately from her? There is a name for siblings that reunite after childhood separation and face the same feelings you have...I'm gonna try and look it up for you. Anyway, the idea is that when there is distance while growing up, the usual .... Desensitizing that happens is absent. Then, because siblings often share many common traits, values, mannerisms etc- when spending time together later in life what would normally have been a strong sibling bond becomes sexual attraction.

EDIT: It's called Genetic Sexual Attraction.

eht slat meit
02-10-2012, 08:27 PM
Well, seeing as you didn't actually -do- anything with her, it's not like we have to start calling you Robert.

Davian93
02-10-2012, 09:04 PM
So, did you grow up with your sister, or separately from her? There is a name for siblings that reunite after childhood separation and face the same feelings you have...I'm gonna try and look it up for you. Anyway, the idea is that when there is distance while growing up, the usual .... Desensitizing that happens is absent. Then, because siblings often share many common traits, values, mannerisms etc- when spending time together later in life what would normally have been a strong sibling bond becomes sexual attraction.

EDIT: It's called Genetic Sexual Attraction.

LOL...I'm guessing you missed all the vague Star Wars references he made there.

Brita
02-10-2012, 09:41 PM
Omg- I'm so embarrassed! I mean...right, I got it all along.

I'm such an idiot :o

And of course you quoted it so I can't even delete and minimize the mortification.

Weiramon
02-10-2012, 10:31 PM
Burn my eyes, if someone doesn't rep this Dice fellow I'll have to do it myself.

Toss the dice
02-11-2012, 07:38 PM
So, did you grow up with your sister, or separately from her? There is a name for siblings that reunite after childhood separation and face the same feelings you have...I'm gonna try and look it up for you. Anyway, the idea is that when there is distance while growing up, the usual .... Desensitizing that happens is absent. Then, because siblings often share many common traits, values, mannerisms etc- when spending time together later in life what would normally have been a strong sibling bond becomes sexual attraction.

EDIT: It's called Genetic Sexual Attraction.

I can't tell you how good it makes me feel to talk with someone that understands my carnal desires. Your kind heart has imbued my life of darkness and debauchery with the warm light of hope. Thank you, Brita, for being you.

Brita
02-11-2012, 07:48 PM
I can't tell you how good it makes me feel to talk with someone that understands my carnal desires. Your kind heart has imbued my life of darkness and debauchery with the warm light of hope. Thank you, Brita, for being you.

LOL- anytime Tossy.

Davian93
02-11-2012, 08:30 PM
Omg- I'm so embarrassed! I mean...right, I got it all along.

I'm such an idiot :o

And of course you quoted it so I can't even delete and minimize the mortification.

ROFL...you're still awesome!

finn
02-12-2012, 04:23 AM
Omg- I'm so embarrassed! I mean...right, I got it all along.

I'm such an idiot :o

And of course you quoted it so I can't even delete and minimize the mortification.

"It's a Trap!"

SauceyBlueConfetti
02-12-2012, 09:15 PM
Omg- I'm so embarrassed! I mean...right, I got it all along.

I'm such an idiot :o

And of course you quoted it so I can't even delete and minimize the mortification.

The first sentence or so had me pretty creeped out...then I was laughing so hard my husband wanted to know what was up. THEN I read Brita's stuff and almost fell out of my chair.

Rep all around ;)

Davian93
02-13-2012, 07:29 AM
The first sentence or so had me pretty creeped out...then I was laughing so hard my husband wanted to know what was up. THEN I read Brita's stuff and almost fell out of my chair.

Rep all around ;)

I'm still laughing and its probably the 4th or 5th time I've read that part of the thread.

Pure gold by TtD.

yks 6nnetu hing
02-13-2012, 09:39 AM
that was pretty awesome :D

I have a really similar story, ya know...

my mom died when I was born so I grew up with my stepdad (cause stepmom also died when I was young and stepdad never got married again, some stuff about liking sheep better than women). Overall I had a pretty normal childhood, even dated the prettiest girl in town, though like all women, she's a bit annoying. I like sheep better anyways, and there's only one girl in the world who understands that (I'll get to her in a bit). So, anyways, one day me and my 2 best pals went adventuring with some other people and I climbed this wall and fell on my head, and I must've had a concussion because when I opened my eyes the most beautiful sheep looked at me. I fell right in love. Then of course my head stopped spinning and it turned out that she was a princess instead. Which was a bit of a disappointment, but the feelings I had were still there, even though I had to take off real quick, because - well how many sheepherders marry princesses, really?
Right around the same time I met Min, she's awesome, she really understands sheep, the various uses of wool and she's awesome at calling me woolhead and other derogatory names, which really turns me on. Though technically this wild redhead I met is even better at that stuff, really kinky shit, and she's all for orgies and stuff too, so yeah... she really makes my head spin, that one.
so anyways, when the sheep-princess heard that I had some other girls I was interested in, she totally weirdly wanted me even more and went all dominatrix so I ended up knocking her up, so I guess now I'm having half-sheep babies...

Brita
02-13-2012, 10:20 AM
The first sentence or so had me pretty creeped out...then I was laughing so hard my husband wanted to know what was up. THEN I read Brita's stuff and almost fell out of my chair.

Rep all around ;)

Groan, why do I keep coming back to this thread? I am a sucker for punishment.

AbbeyRoad
02-13-2012, 06:22 PM
So, did you grow up around sheep, or start being around sheep after you hit puberty? There is a name for people who come to love sheep after childhood and face the same feelings you have... I'm gonna try and look it up for you. Anyway, the idea is that when you spend your youth away from sheep, the usual .... Desensitizing that happens is absent. Then, because sheep and people often share many common traits, values, mannerisms etc- when spending time together later in life what would normally have been a strong herding bond becomes sexual attraction.

EDIT: It's called Bestiality.

Davian93
02-13-2012, 07:06 PM
So, did you grow up around sheep, or start being around sheep after you hit puberty? There is a name for people who come to love sheep after childhood and face the same feelings you have... I'm gonna try and look it up for you. Anyway, the idea is that when you spend your youth away from sheep, the usual .... Desensitizing that happens is absent. Then, because sheep and people often share many common traits, values, mannerisms etc- when spending time together later in life what would normally have been a strong herding bond becomes sexual attraction.

EDIT: It's called Dragonthief.

FTFY

Brita
02-14-2012, 08:31 AM
So, did you grow up around sheep, or start being around sheep after you hit puberty? There is a name for people who come to love sheep after childhood and face the same feelings you have... I'm gonna try and look it up for you. Anyway, the idea is that when you spend your youth away from sheep, the usual .... Desensitizing that happens is absent. Then, because sheep and people often share many common traits, values, mannerisms etc- when spending time together later in life what would normally have been a strong herding bond becomes sexual attraction.

EDIT: It's called Bestiality.

Hmpff! You are now on my ignore list. :p

Toss the dice
02-14-2012, 02:13 PM
So, did you grow up around sheep, or start being around sheep after you hit puberty? There is a name for people who come to love sheep after childhood and face the same feelings you have... I'm gonna try and look it up for you. Anyway, the idea is that when you spend your youth away from sheep, the usual .... Desensitizing that happens is absent. Then, because sheep and people often share many common traits, values, mannerisms etc- when spending time together later in life what would normally have been a strong herding bond becomes sexual attraction.

EDIT: It's called Bestiality.

Lol that's awesome. I like the "strong herding bond" part. Maybe Moiraine taking Rand out of the Two Rivers was good for more than one reason. The herding bond was no doubt strong in that one.

AbbeyRoad
02-14-2012, 06:02 PM
Hmpff! You are now on my ignore list. :p
Aww, it's all in good fun. Mockery is the sincerest form of flattery... or something like that ;).