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Sei'taer
02-11-2012, 09:38 PM
That's all I got to say about that.

Res_Ipsa
02-11-2012, 11:11 PM
I would argue that Kevin Costner has not had a good film since The Untouchables, and that was 1987.

Ivhon
02-11-2012, 11:35 PM
I would argue that Kevin Costner has not had a good film.

Fixed.

ShadowbaneX
02-11-2012, 11:38 PM
Hard to protect someone from their vices...especially rich someones. I wasn't ever a big fan, but still a massive waste of talent. May she rest in peace.

lord Mordeth
02-12-2012, 12:24 AM
I think we all agreed that crack is indeed wack, we didn't need a practical demonstration.

Mort
02-12-2012, 03:14 AM
It's sad she lived her last few years so tragic.

RIP Whitney.

AbbeyRoad
02-12-2012, 04:28 AM
I would argue that Kevin Costner has not had a good film.
Fixed.
You didn't like Field of Dreams or Dances with Wolves?

Uno
02-12-2012, 04:31 AM
I've heard the name, but I don't really know who Kevin Costner is. Some kind of actor or producer, I gather. Hollywood celebrites are a dime a dozen.

Sarevok
02-12-2012, 06:14 AM
What did he do? Make a bad movie?

Uno
02-12-2012, 06:27 AM
What did he do? Make a bad movie?

Can't be. Most movies are bad and getting wore.

Res_Ipsa
02-12-2012, 08:57 AM
You didn't like Field of Dreams or Dances with Wolves?

Never saw it, and no.


Woah, I just found out that Whitney Houston died. Which is why Sei's post now makes sense. I just thought he was having one of those Kevin Costner nights.

Sarevok
02-12-2012, 09:50 AM
Woah, I just found out that Whitney Houston died. Which is why Sei's post now makes sense. I just thought he was having one of those Kevin Costner nights.

Care to enlighten the rest of us? :confused:

Ivhon
02-12-2012, 10:23 AM
You didn't like Field of Dreams or Dances with Wolves?

Nope. Bull Durham and the Untouchables were both decent - but substantially lessened by his presence. Great actors can salvage him, but when he had top billing it is shit. Most of the trees in my back yard are less wooden than Costner

EDIT: we used to substitute "shit" in the title of all if his movies back in college. Gives a more accurate description of th quality of the movie:

Field of Shit
Shitworld
Bull Shit
Dances With Shit
Shitdango
Etshitera....

Ivhon
02-12-2012, 10:25 AM
Care to enlighten the rest of us? :confused:

Kevin Costner played Whitney Houston's bodyguard in the movie "the bodyguard"

ShadowbaneX
02-12-2012, 11:01 AM
I put him in the same sorta league with John Travolta. Not bad as a villian (3000 Miles to Graceland//Swordfish) but really capable of making [i]spectacularly[i] bad movies (Waterworld, The Postman//Battlefield Earth...actually Battlefield Earth was so bad it should be mentioned twice).

Mort
02-12-2012, 11:50 AM
I put him in the same sorta league with John Travolta. Not bad as a villian (3000 Miles to Graceland//Swordfish) but really capable of making [i]spectacularly[i] bad movies (Waterworld, The Postman//Battlefield Earth...actually Battlefield Earth was so bad it should be mentioned twice).

Call me crazy, but I kinda liked The Postman actually... I know it's hardly Oscar material, but I enjoyed it.

If nothing else, how should we know what good is if we don't know what bad is? We should thank Mr Costner for that.

Terez
02-12-2012, 11:59 AM
Nope. Bull Durham and the Untouchables were both decent - but substantially lessened by his presence. Great actors can salvage him, but when he had top billing it is shit. Most of the trees in my back yard are less wooden than CostnerI happened to come across an interview with him about Whitney from 2009 yesterday, and in the interview they play a clip of 'the kiss' from the movie. Now, I watched the movie back then but barely recall it at all. But that has got to be the fakest, lamest onscreen kiss I've ever seen.

Davian93
02-12-2012, 12:04 PM
Nope. Bull Durham and the Untouchables were both decent - but substantially lessened by his presence. Great actors can salvage him, but when he had top billing it is shit. Most of the trees in my back yard are less wooden than Costner

EDIT: we used to substitute "shit" in the title of all if his movies back in college. Gives a more accurate description of th quality of the movie:

Field of Shit
Shitworld
Bull Shit
Dances With Shit
Shitdango
Etshitera....

Bullshit.

Field of Dreams and Bull Durham were both very good movies and he was a big part of why.

Now, Robin Hood was pretty bad because of him and movies like Waterworld, etc but that's a different point.

Dances with Wolves was solid too.

Tomp
02-12-2012, 01:50 PM
Postman was way to long and had a big anti-climax.

bowlwoman
02-12-2012, 03:19 PM
Now, Robin Hood was pretty bad because of him

"Unlike some other Robin Hoods, I can speak with an English accent."

Robin Hood: Prince of Shit

Ivhon
02-12-2012, 03:49 PM
"Unlike some other Robin Hoods, I can speak with an English accent."

Robin Hood: Prince of Shit

Thank you.

Sei'taer
02-12-2012, 04:13 PM
Bullshit.

Field of Dreams and Bull Durham were both very good movies and he was a big part of why.

Now, Robin Hood was pretty bad because of him and movies like Waterworld, etc but that's a different point.

Dances with Wolves was solid too.

I agree, and I'd even put "for the love of the game" up there too.

Davian93
02-12-2012, 04:18 PM
I agree, and I'd even put "for the love of the game" up there too.

Love of the Game is a solid movie. Basically, when Kevin sticks to baseball, he's golden. That stands to reason given that he is/was actually a pretty good baseball player in his youth.

Tomp
02-12-2012, 04:25 PM
"Unlike some other Robin Hoods, I can speak with an English accent."

Robin Hood: Prince of Shit

Alan Rickman (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6I_8HXcO54)was the thing that made that movie somewhat ok. Without him it would be really bad.

Ivhon
02-12-2012, 05:04 PM
Bullshit.

Field of Dreams and Bull Durham were both very good movies and he was a big part of why.

Now, Robin Hood was pretty bad because of him and movies like Waterworld, etc but that's a different point.

Dances with Wolves was solid too.

You conflate being in a good movie with being good. Bull Durham was good because of Tim Robbins and Susan Sarandon. Any reasonably good-looking man in his late 30's could have pulled off the Crash Davis role perfectly well. Field of Dreams was yawnsville - largely because of the tree-acting. Dances with Wolves was a joke of an overdone Oscar grab.

All that said. I was too quick to throw Costner under the bus. His work in The Big Chill was brilliantly honest and showed the range and versatility Costner could have as an actor.

Davian93
02-12-2012, 05:16 PM
You're absolutely insane on Bull Durham. Costner owned that role. Robbins was terrible.

Res_Ipsa
02-12-2012, 05:22 PM
Postman was way to long and had a big anti-climax.

Yeah, that is exactly what was wrong with it . . .

Davian93
02-12-2012, 05:24 PM
Yeah, that is exactly what was wrong with it . . .

Well, the book sucked too...FWIW.

Ivhon
02-12-2012, 05:25 PM
You're absolutely insane on Bull Durham. Costner owned that role. Robbins was terrible.

And now you conflate the intent of the writer as to character with the skill of the actor in executing that character.

Res_Ipsa
02-12-2012, 06:11 PM
Well, the book sucked too...FWIW.

I have avoided watching or reading Battlefield Earth. I find that to be two of the major accomplishments in my life as sad as that is.

Davian93
02-12-2012, 06:12 PM
I have avoided watching or reading Battlefield Earth. I find that to be two of the major accomplishments in my life as sad as that is.

I was referring to The Postman...but Battlefield Earth was a far worse book.

bowlwoman
02-12-2012, 06:18 PM
I agree, and I'd even put "for the love of the game" up there too.

For Love of the Game was the second movie I ever walked out of. It was boring as hell.

And I cannot figure out why no one has mentioned Tin Cup yet. Tin Shit? Shit Cup? It works either way.

Res_Ipsa
02-12-2012, 06:23 PM
I was referring to The Postman...but Battlefield Earth was a far worse book.

Yeah I did a poor job of conveying my lead in to another equally crappy book/movie combo. I understood you were referencing The Postman and meant to convey my joy of having never experienced something far worse. L Ron Hubbard.

Terez
02-12-2012, 06:31 PM
Apparently Bobby Brown was doing a show with New Edition (!) in MS (Southhaven, which is much closer to Taer than to me) when he broke down crying on stage.

Ivhon
02-12-2012, 08:23 PM
For Love of the Game was the second movie I ever walked out of. It was boring as hell.

And I cannot figure out why no one has mentioned Tin Cup yet. Tin Shit? Shit Cup? It works either way.

Shit Cup.

Sei'taer
02-12-2012, 08:37 PM
Apparently Bobby Brown was doing a show with New Edition (!) in MS (Southhaven, which is much closer to Taer than to me) when he broke down crying on stage.

Yeah, my wife said they broke into the show that was on to show BB being escorted to the airport.

Sei'taer
02-12-2012, 08:49 PM
For Love of the Game was the second movie I ever walked out of. It was boring as hell.

And I cannot figure out why no one has mentioned Tin Cup yet. Tin Shit? Shit Cup? It works either way.

I own the DVD. it's one of my favorite baseball movies.

I have:
Bull Durham
Major League
For The Love Of The Game
The Rookie
Field of Dreams
The Natural

I have a ton of other sports movies. I guess that and fantasy/sci-fi stuff is my kinda thing.

Davian93
02-13-2012, 11:16 AM
I own the DVD. it's one of my favorite baseball movies.

I have:
Bull Durham
Major League
For The Love Of The Game
The Rookie
Field of Dreams
The Natural

I have a ton of other sports movies. I guess that and fantasy/sci-fi stuff is my kinda thing.

I would rank those baseball movies as follows:

1. Major League: The quintessential baseball movie. A movie that I still quote/reference at least 4-5 times every time I watch or am at a baseball game. The sequels were weak but the original Major League was and is a classic of American cinema.

2. Field of Dreams: Despite some people's objections, Costner owns this movie about reconciling a son and father through baseball. Its a redemption story on many levels (Redemption for Ray and John Kinsella, redemption for Shoeless Joe, etc). If you dont choke up when Ray asks his father to have a catch, you are either not a guy or some sort of sociopath. Also, James Earl Jones is fantastic in a supporting role. WHen I drove cross-country from Seattle to Philly, my brother and I made a point to stop at the baseball field in Dyersville, Iowa...great tourist road-side attraction that is kept up by the two families that actually own the land it was filmed on.

3. Bull Durham: Costner owns the role of Crash Davis and carries a badly miscast Tim Robbins (could they at least of found someone who can actually throw a baseball?). A very quotable movie though as Crash has some great one-liners when he's educating Nuke Naloose (tim robbins) for the Show.

4. The Natural: While its got some great scenes the movie drags at times unfortunately. "There goes Roy Hobbs, the best there ever was."

5. Love of the Game: I liked it. Its an older Costner in a solid role of a fading former star with one last great effort in him. This is a big part of why people watch sports. We hope to see one last great flash of brilliance from a former great. We hope Gretzky has one more hattrick in him or that MJ could get one more title. Most of the time, they never reach that peak again even briefly but the few times they show even a flash of it is a site to behold.

6. The Rookie: Sadly I have seen this movie a couple times and its tough to handle. It was one of a string of mid-90s family type baseball movies along with The Sandlot, The Scout, Angels in the Outfield, etc. Personally, if I had to pick one, I think "The Scout" was the best of the bunch simply because it was so ridiculous...Steve Nebraska, an unknown phenom who is pitching in Mexico is discovered by a disgraced scout and promptly signed by the Yankees for a ridiculous contract that also has a clause in it that he makes his debut in Game 1 of the WS that year. He proceeds to strike out all 27 batters on 81 pitches (you cant make this crap up) with the last pitch coming in around 112 mph. It did lead to a bunch of "Steve Nebraska=Stephen Strasburg" comments over the last couple years if nothing else. The Rookie is about a 12 year old that has arm surgery/breaks his arm and can suddenly throw high 90s heat. He is promptly signed by his hometown Cubs and pitches well for a while until he retweaks the arm and loses his fastball (right in the midst of the key game of course).

Khoram
02-13-2012, 11:46 AM
The Rookie has always been one of my favourite movies - I don't care that Denis Quaid is in it (I don't mind him, although he looks like the Grinch when he smiles), and when he finally makes it to the majors for that one game, after all that hard work, it brings a tear to my eye. It's the only movie I have cried at. And I'm not ashamed to admit it.

Granted, the last baseball movie I really saw before that was Angels in the Outfield, and I was pretty young when I saw it, so I can't remember much from it. I'll have to go out and find more baseball movies. I saw most recently The Natural, and found it quite long and boring, to be honest. The baseball scenes were great, and I was on a baseball high whenever those scenes came up, but aside from that, I felt the movie was flat. :/

Crispin's Crispian
02-13-2012, 11:59 AM
Apparently Bobby Brown was doing a show with New Edition (!) in MS (Southhaven, which is much closer to Taer than to me) when he broke down crying on stage.

Why do you keep talking about Whitney Houston in this thread?


Facebook was all atwitter Saturday about Whitney Houston...well, sort of. mostly friends posting old videos and going, "What, she died?!"

I found the response to be pretty underwhelming, which is sad. Thinking back, Whitney Houston was absolutely huge in the 80s and early 90s. She was the most awarded female singer of all time, and no one ever disputed that she was one of the best singers ever.

But her life just turned into a bit of a joke, then she kind of fell of the map.

Now there are more posts in this thread about Kevin Costner's movies than about her.


Just sad.

Davian93
02-13-2012, 12:07 PM
The Rookie has always been one of my favourite movies - I don't care that Denis Quaid is in it (I don't mind him, although he looks like the Grinch when he smiles), and when he finally makes it to the majors for that one game, after all that hard work, it brings a tear to my eye. It's the only movie I have cried at. And I'm not ashamed to admit it.

Granted, the last baseball movie I really saw before that was Angels in the Outfield, and I was pretty young when I saw it, so I can't remember much from it. I'll have to go out and find more baseball movies. I saw most recently The Natural, and found it quite long and boring, to be honest. The baseball scenes were great, and I was on a baseball high whenever those scenes came up, but aside from that, I felt the movie was flat. :/


Oops, I was thinking of Rookie of the Year, not The Rookie. The Rookie was a solid movie and I liked it. Rookie of the Year was the terrible 90s level movie that I described in the earlier post. I was wondering about Taer too.

Terez
02-13-2012, 12:43 PM
Why do you keep talking about Whitney Houston in this thread? ...

Now there are more posts in this thread about Kevin Costner's movies than about her.

Just sad.I agree it's sad. One thing that really annoyed me about the articles on her death...they all mentioned that she used cocaine and marijuana, but I read several articles before I saw one that mentioned that she had gotten extremely drunk the night before she died, and that she also had a continuing alcohol problem. Do these people not realize that the legality of alcohol doesn't change the fact that it probably contributed at least as much to her decline as the marijuana? Probably much more than.

Davian93
02-13-2012, 12:52 PM
I agree it's sad. One thing that really annoyed me about the articles on her death...they all mentioned that she used cocaine and marijuana, but I read several articles before I saw one that mentioned that she had gotten extremely drunk the night before she died, and that she also had a continuing alcohol problem. Do these people not realize that the legality of alcohol doesn't change the fact that it probably contributed at least as much to her decline as the marijuana? Probably much more than.

I read it was alcohol and prescription drugs...guessing a accidentally lethal dose of antidepressants/painkillers and alcohol made her pass out and drown in the tub. Sad but not a huge surprise given her issues over the years.

Terez
02-13-2012, 12:57 PM
I read it was alcohol and prescription drugs...guessing a accidentally lethal dose of antidepressants/painkillers and alcohol made her pass out and drown in the tub. Sad but not a huge surprise given her issues over the years.I stopped reading them after a while, so I only saw the early ones, and they didn't know the cause. They were just making insinuations based on what was known about her lifestyle, and most of them apparently didn't think the legal drugs worth mentioning.

Ivhon
02-13-2012, 01:09 PM
Why do you keep talking about Whitney Houston in this thread?


Facebook was all atwitter Saturday about Whitney Houston...well, sort of. mostly friends posting old videos and going, "What, she died?!"

I found the response to be pretty underwhelming, which is sad. Thinking back, Whitney Houston was absolutely huge in the 80s and early 90s. She was the most awarded female singer of all time, and no one ever disputed that she was one of the best singers ever.

But her life just turned into a bit of a joke, then she kind of fell of the map.

Now there are more posts in this thread about Kevin Costner's movies than about her.


Just sad.

Sorry, dude....got hijacked and didn't finish

Whitney Houston starred in "The Bodyguard" with Kevin Costner who was in JFK with Kevin Bacon. Therefore Whitney Houston had a Bacon Factor of 2.

Now we may proceed with eulogizing/canonizing another Hollywood burnout.

Ishara
02-13-2012, 01:46 PM
First, I just want to say that yeah, I was saddened to hear about her death. Not particularly shcoked, but still saddened. Her music was the soundtrack to my childhood, my mum adored her. The part that makes it sadder for me is that she managed to rise above her addictions and clean up enough to make a phenomenal record 2 years ago with almost all of her voice (you could tell there was damage), and then spiralled back down again.

Now, moving on to Kevin Costner. I really don't care what this does to the public opinion of me, but Prince of Thieves is in my Top 5 favourite movies of all time. And I actually really liked the Bodyguadr, and still own the soundtrack. Dances, Waterworld and Postman are not my favourites, but frankly they're a bit heavy for my liking anyways. He's got this charming smile and these devil may care eye wrinkes that really make him very appealing. Just sayin.'

Heinz
02-13-2012, 02:13 PM
Yea, I'm about in the same boat as Ishara. I'm sad that Houston died, but think it is more sad that its the culmination of self-destruction by someone who was so incredibly talented. I'm not much of a pop music listener, but I'd stop and listen to her voice. Mom had a few of her songs. She was one of the few singers that dad listened to at all (he wasn't a big music guy, but he went bonkers over her National Anthem).

I haven't watched much of the coverage. Saw about 30 minutes of an NBC piece last night that did a basic chronicle of her life. Interesting to me, since I don't follow any of the Hollywood/singer/actor/media-star gossip scene and did not know much about Houston. About the only other piece of news I'll watch for and pay attention are when they come out with the 'facts' on her death, and hope they got it right.

As far as Costner goes.. I actually liked The Bodyguard. Costner fit the role pretty well. I wouldn't say he's a stellar actor though. To me, he has a certain role he can fill, and fill well. He's not dynamic enough to go outside of it though. At least, I've never seen it. But he's always the stoic, quiet, yet arrogant type.

Robin Hood. Still enjoy watching it from time to time. Though admittedly, I'm in the boat that says Rickman made that movie, not Costner. Costner did ok (borderline not the right role for him), but Rickman was awesome (and continues to be).

Liked Dances with Wolves.. though I can't say I'm eager to watch it. It was a good movie, but slow. Field of Dreams is classic, but not one of my favorites.

He's really had some wretched movies too though, hasn't he? I've observed a few times that Costner seems to either be in some really good movies, or some incredibly aweful bombs. And as I think about the ones I've typed above that I think are good, I realize that I found the overall movies to be good (Dances, for example) or another actor that made the movie good (Robin Hood). Not one of the movies makes me point to it and say 'Costner did an awesome job in that'. He did all right, but didn't make the movie.

Reminds me of Orlando Bloom in Kingdom of Heaven or the Pirates movies.

Davian93
02-13-2012, 03:55 PM
Mr. Brooks was a good movie by him.

tworiverswoman
02-13-2012, 04:39 PM
Whitney Houston was a fantastic singer who lost herself in the lifestyle. I haven't seen a photo of her in several years, but the last one I saw made me wonder if she was about to die of anorexia, she was so thin and bony. I hate drug-related deaths - the focus shifts from what the person was to the stupidity from which they died.

:(:(

I like Kevin Costner, actually. I can't argue that he's got a wooden style, but I suspect that's why he gets certain roles - that's sometimes what's called for. If Elliot Ness cracked an engaging grin the world might stop. I liked him well enough in Field of Dreams (can you imagine actually PITCHING that movie to get financial backing? I'm ASTONISHED it ever got made...), his stoic stolidness is just right for The Bodyguard, and I rather liked him in Robin Hood, even if he did flatly refuse to fake an English accent. Thank god.

I remember one of the "making ofs" for that movie, turned out he was a natural hand at archery - kind of amazed him (and the director).

Alan Rickman deserves his own thread, he's that awesome. :)

Crispin's Crispian
02-13-2012, 04:44 PM
I always thought is most interesting role was in "Silverado."

I could only find one of his scenes on YouTube (he only had a few, but they were good).

I did find this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3WusDXveMU)one, though, which has almost all the stars, and reminded me of just how awesome this movie is. Plus...John Cleese!

Mort
02-13-2012, 05:44 PM
I really don't care what this does to the public opinion of me, but Prince of Thieves is in my Top 5 favourite movies of all time.

Something of a oxymoron-sentence? :) But I liked Prince of Thieves as well, maybe not that much though :)

I remember Dances with Wolves being good, but I havn't seen it in ages so... I liked his Wyatt Earp movies. The last one I saw with him was Swing Vote, a bit silly story but an ok flick. Bodyguard was okay.

I hear Open Range is a solid movie, but I havn't seen it yet, and dunno if Costner is part of the good ratings.

He's done alright in my book.

Sei'taer
02-13-2012, 06:47 PM
I always thought is most interesting role was in "Silverado."

I could only find one of his scenes on YouTube (he only had a few, but they were good).

I did find this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3WusDXveMU)one, though, which has almost all the stars, and reminded me of just how awesome this movie is. Plus...John Cleese!

See, it's my opnion that every movie, no matter how bad, has that one scene that's really good. These are my favs from some of his movies.

Silverado (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5g2en7CTUk8)

For the Love of the Game (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SuXWrXA8l8&feature=related)

Bull Durham (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzX_K9pX3X0&feature=related) Gets two, because two of my favorite baseball scenes ever are in this movie. Lollygaggers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLMl0CLIDLg)

Davian93
02-13-2012, 07:27 PM
People Will Come, Ray (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SB16il97yw)

fantastic scene.

Sei'taer
02-13-2012, 08:44 PM
People Will Come, Ray (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SB16il97yw)

fantastic scene.

James Earl Jones...he's the man.

Crispin's Crispian
02-14-2012, 10:46 AM
See, it's my opnion that every movie, no matter how bad, has that one scene that's really good. These are my favs from some of his movies.

Silverado (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5g2en7CTUk8)
That scene is the only Jake scene I could find on Youtube. IT's pretty good, but doesn't really show off his character much. There's a cool scene where he leaps on a horse from a second-story window that is pretty funny.

My favorite scenes in Silverado almost all involved Danny Glover.

"I don't wanna kill you and you don't wanna be dead."

and

"These oughta do."

Weiramon
02-14-2012, 01:58 PM
Now, moving on to Kevin Costner.

Burn my soul, he was stellar in The Big Chill.

Ivhon
02-14-2012, 02:21 PM
Burn my soul, he was stellar in The Big Chill.

Exactly my point. Well said!

Figbiscuit
02-14-2012, 02:30 PM
I loved The Bodyguard. But then, I was about 13 or or so when it came out, with all the hormones of a 13 or so year old girl, so it's only to be expected. Haven't seen it for years so no idea how I'd judge it now.

Very sad about Whitney, equally sad that the automatic reaction of myself and most people I spoke to was that it was some kind of OD or drug-related death, and equally sad that as seems to be typical in these situations, the media and Tinseltown now seem to be on a mission to cannonise her. The same media who've been gleefully recording every foul move she's made for the past ten years, and the same Tinseltown who've probably slated and ignored her for the same. (I admit the last part of that sentence is pure conjecture on my part). She had amazing talent, and it just goes to show that all the money in the world can't fix everything.

And on a side note I agree with T that just because alcohol is legal doesn't mean it should be over-looked as a cause of her ill health, problems and possibly death. It annoys the shit out of me that pot is seen to be this terrible gateway drug, yet I know not one person who's ever smoked pot that didn't try alcohol first. In many ways alcohol is the most dangerous drug of all, mostly due to so many people not acknowledging that it's even a drug /end rant.

Terez
02-14-2012, 03:35 PM
And on a side note I agree with T that just because alcohol is legal doesn't mean it should be over-looked as a cause of her ill health, problems and possibly death. It annoys the shit out of me that pot is seen to be this terrible gateway drug, yet I know not one person who's ever smoked pot that didn't try alcohol first. In many ways alcohol is the most dangerous drug of all, mostly due to so many people not acknowledging that it's even a drug /end rant.Yes, this. People go to hard drugs when soft ones are not enough for them. I see marijuana as being softer than alcohol, but because of the implications of legality, most people seem to see alcohol as being the softer one. The toxicity alone is vastly different - that is, the ratio of effective dose to fatal dose. Alcohol is between 10 and 20 to 1 (many prescription pills have similar toxicity ratios); marijuana is unknown but assumed to be above 1000 to 1. Marijuana is sometimes a 'gateway drug', but only because it is illegal. You have to go to a drug dealer to get it, and most people would never go to a drug dealer otherwise. But once you get to know drug dealers, the chances you will be exposed to harder drugs is increased. And so, when people go through emotional difficulties where the soft drugs don't suffice, they have somewhere else to turn. Ideally, marijuana would be the legal 'soft drug' and alcohol the legal 'hard drug', and that way maybe the conversation about drug use would be a little more honest, and the dangers of alcohol a little more recognized. And maybe drug dealers would go out of business, at least outside of urban areas where population density makes up for relative lack of interest.

pops taer
02-15-2012, 09:34 PM
I can so relate with "Chappel" here. Costner has the athletic ability and acting skills to carry this off marvelously. I pitched a little baseball and a lot of fastpitch softball. Tuning out crowds and talking to yourself during the game is part of it.

I would throw in:

The Stratton Story Jimmy Stewart/June Allison

Quiet Hero