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final death
03-01-2012, 08:28 PM
Since the books never thoroughly mention the mechanics behind healing I have been thinking about how it might work. The way it reads is the power stimulates a advanced regeneration process. This would also explain why the same healing technique heals everything and why most of the strength for healing comes from the person being healed. Though that's only for the basic healing. I'm wondering how more advanced healing techniques might work.

Tomp
03-02-2012, 05:04 AM
This is my thoughts on the matter.

The basic healing that AS always have done consists of water ,air and spirit and works pretty much as you have described.

The advanced healing which includes fire and earth provides energy (fire) and supports the body (earth).

So, in the basic healing the energy and healing mass is taken from the one being healed. In the advanced that is somewhat supported, plus you can do some stuff that wasn't possible before.

Zombie Sammael
03-02-2012, 09:54 AM
We know that channelling the Power in its "raw" form has rejuvenating properties. It might well be the case that the Five Powers method of healing passes along some of that rejuvenation to the patient. The mechanics of how that's done might well correspond with Tomp's thoughts on how exactly the Five Powers are used, especially since the rejuvenating effect of Five Power Healing seems much more pronounced than that of simple channelling.

I would also look to the Warder bond, which provides enhanced strength and stamina to the bondee, for a weave with a similar rejuvenating effect.

NaeffOfDreams
03-02-2012, 01:47 PM
I think Healing is fairly logical, but has seen limited use in the Third Age due to a lack of understanding one the part of the Aes Sedai of the human body and how it works. Adding Fire and Earth would be a no-brainer if the AS were med school grads. Heat is energy, check. We're carbon-based life forms, better use some Earth power, check.

In ToM, when Nynaeve heals madness, we have a perfect example of localized healing. It makes a good deal of sense that one of the supergirls would discover this, as they've always had a more scientific approach to things instead of "this is how it's always been done." And, besides, hanging out with Rand all the time, let alone all the other crazies in and out of politics, Nynaeve has become an amateur student of psychology at worst. She even coined the term paranoia in a world without a discipline to make a study of such things :rolleyes:

Zombie Sammael
03-02-2012, 03:40 PM
I think Healing is fairly logical, but has seen limited use in the Third Age due to a lack of understanding one the part of the Aes Sedai of the human body and how it works. Adding Fire and Earth would be a no-brainer if the AS were med school grads. Heat is energy, check. We're carbon-based life forms, better use some Earth power, check.

In ToM, when Nynaeve heals madness, we have a perfect example of localized healing. It makes a good deal of sense that one of the supergirls would discover this, as they've always had a more scientific approach to things instead of "this is how it's always been done." And, besides, hanging out with Rand all the time, let alone all the other crazies in and out of politics, Nynaeve has become an amateur student of psychology at worst. She even coined the term paranoia in a world without a discipline to make a study of such things :rolleyes:

Minor quibble: that's to do with the language-fail. Normally, when a fantasy writer is writing a book, the reader assumes the characters are speaking whatever the common language is, and the writer is helpfully translating into English (or rather, the reader's language). Unfortunately, Robert Jordan thought that, because the language from which the New Tongue is derived (the Old Tongue) was derived from, among other languages, English, he claimed that the NT actually was English. As you point out, it doesn't really make a lot of sense given that there is no frame of reference for many of these words. How can you have Sadism without the Maquis De Sade? You'd be better off calling it Semirhagism. But that was his explanation for it, and that's how Nynaeve gets away with using the term paranoia - she didn't actually coin it herself, it's a normal word in the language she speaks, which happens to be English. :rolleyes:

professorskar
03-02-2012, 04:52 PM
I don't think the New Tongue is the same as English. In fact, I found this quote in the database that seems to debunk it:

"Well you must understand that I've translated the New Tongue into English"

Zombie Sammael
03-02-2012, 05:23 PM
I think this is the quote I was thinking of:


QUESTION
English has completely different [incomprehensible] vocabulary over the last couple of hundred years.
ROBERT JORDAN
Oh sure, more than the last couple of hundred years English...
QUESTION
[interrupts]: I mean, as taught(?) before as the last couple of hundred years as opposed to the Westlands. I mean, everybody spoke the Old Tongue.
ROBERT JORDAN
English has absorbed words from other languages as recently as the last ten years.
QUESTION
Well of course.
ROBERT JORDAN
[interrupts] American English in particular is a sponge. The thing is that most Americans think they know no foreign words whatsoever. But if you sit them down with a test, you find that the average American knows twenty or thirty words of French, twenty or thirty words of German or, you know, maybe as many as fifty from Spanish—more than that from Spanish; probably knows close to a hundred words from Spanish—and between fifty and a hundred from Italian, and from other languages as well, because they have been absorbed into American English.
QUESTION
But in the Wheel of Time world, you don’t have this flux of languages; you don't actually have many different languages. Even the Seanchan speak the same language.
ROBERT JORDAN
[interrupts: And I set that up deliberately, because, you know, one of the things about a world that believes in a circular nature of time, is that they believe that there is no real possibility of change. It is one of the things that burden India, as you might know. Whatever I do to affect change...the Wheel of Time—which is as Hindu concept (from others as well, but the Hindus believe in that)—whatever I do to affect change, the Wheel will turn and all things will return to being as they are now. Therefore my effort to affect change is essentially useless. The great gift to the world of the ancient Greeks is that they were the FIRST culture to conceive of time as being linear, which allows for change. I can change things, I can change the future, and it will not return to what it is now, because time passes on; it does not double back. So I have a Wheel of Time world, where there is a belief in reincarnation and a belief that things will return to, not exactly the way they are now, but essentially as if there were two tapestries and you look at them from across the room, and they look identical, and it’s only when you get close that you can see the differences.

I began to think also of the periods involved. Do you know why the mountains in this world are so incredibly rugged? Why there’s so few passes? These mountains are only a little over three thousand years old. There are no mountains in the world that are only three thousand years old. There are no mountains in the world that don’t have hundreds of thousands—millions—of years of wind and water erosion to have worn them down. THESE are mountains in their infancy. And in this world, be have had three distinct one thousand year periods, roughly from the Breaking of the World to the Trolloc Wars, from the Trolloc Wars to the War of the Hundred Years, from the War of the Hundred Years to today. Not quite a thousand years in each case, some were perhaps a little more. But in each case, what has happened is, you have had a mixing of the population during the turbulence—the nations breaking apart—a production of a lingua franca for these people to communicate with one another, and not enough time for that lingua degenerate into distinct languages which are no longer intelligible to one another.

And that is enough so that the people of today could not understand the people from before the Trolloc Wars, who were speaking something very close to the Old Tongue, if not the Old Tongue itself. But they can understand the people of the Seanchan, who are speaking the language of Arthur Hawkwing’s time, which had not enough time to break down into separate languages, you see. And any effects of it breaking down into separate languages was modified by their getting together, so what’s happened over the space of just a thousand years is: they think each other have strong accents. It’s like I’m speaking to somebody who speaks English and he’s Jamaican, and I don’t understand him very easily, or he’s Nigerian. I don’t understand him very easily, and he’s a native English speaker—we can understand one another; it’s not easy, but we understand one another.

However, I think the person who first pointed this out to me was a poster on these boards, maybe Davian or SDog. Possibly if it was one of them they can fill you in, or Terez or Marie might have the right idea in mind.

Alternately, I dreamed the whole thing up from too long spent reading the interview database, EWOT, and 13th Depository. :p

professorskar
03-02-2012, 11:07 PM
Yeah...it falls into one of those many Wheel of Time facts where you stop and think "Where the hell did I hear that?" Like I was reading a different thread where someone was talking about how Nym have human souls, and all I could think of was like "Is that a thing? Where did this information come from?"

Or listening to Felix talk about Ila and Luc Mantear being Valan Luca's (the ex-Tinker) father, like it's absolute fact. Sometimes it's hard to keep track of what are some people's (including one's own) assumptions and what has been established as true. :D

eht slat meit
03-02-2012, 11:08 PM
How can you have Sadism without the Maquis De Sade? You'd be better off calling it Semirhagism. But that was his explanation for it, and that's how Nynaeve gets away with using the term paranoia - she didn't actually coin it herself, it's a normal word in the language she speaks, which happens to be English. :rolleyes:

Given that there -was- a de Sade, in an Age long past, and an Age long forgotten, there's really no reason the word should go away. After all, sadists can and will continue to exist, even in an age of peace like the AoL. The word might get replaced, but generally won't get lost unless the entire concept that spawned it dies.

Example, the word "fax" would have zero place in the AoL onward, because the concept is dead.

Zombie Sammael
03-03-2012, 04:22 AM
Yeah...it falls into one of those many Wheel of Time facts where you stop and think "Where the hell did I hear that?" Like I was reading a different thread where someone was talking about how Nym have human souls, and all I could think of was like "Is that a thing? Where did this information come from?"

Or listening to Felix talk about Ila and Luc Mantear being Valan Luca's (the ex-Tinker) father, like it's absolute fact. Sometimes it's hard to keep track of what are some people's (including one's own) assumptions and what has been established as true. :D

You have to separate Felx-Cannon from WOT-Cannon. It becomes much easier to follow both that way.

Given that there -was- a de Sade, in an Age long past, and an Age long forgotten, there's really no reason the word should go away. After all, sadists can and will continue to exist, even in an age of peace like the AoL. The word might get replaced, but generally won't get lost unless the entire concept that spawned it dies.

Example, the word "fax" would have zero place in the AoL onward, because the concept is dead.

Pfffft. I'm calling it Semirhagism from now on.

Tomp
03-03-2012, 04:32 AM
Pfffft. I'm calling it Semirhagism from now on.

Maybe it should be called Zombiism. We all know your dirty little secrets. ;)

Zombie Sammael
03-03-2012, 04:53 AM
Maybe it should be called Zombiism. We all know your dirty little secrets. ;)

I never made a secret of it. In fact, one of my slaves is typing this for me.

NaeffOfDreams
03-03-2012, 08:15 AM
Thanks for that interview quote. Though I'm very much pro-Brandon, I was worried that the use of paranoia might've been a Brandon-fail. Excellent work.

fdsaf3
03-03-2012, 04:02 PM
I wonder if Power forged surgical tools could be implemented. Seems like they could be. Then again, why you'd need to use a scalpel when you can simply Heal someone renders the question moot.

Here's another question. What is the extent of Healing that can be done? Can someone be Healed if they are fat to make them skinny? Kind of like One Power liposuction? What about Healing things like cancer, congestive heart failure, or asthma? If Nynaeve can Heal madness, other issues should be a snap, no?

Zombie Sammael
03-03-2012, 06:26 PM
I wonder if Power forged surgical tools could be implemented. Seems like they could be. Then again, why you'd need to use a scalpel when you can simply Heal someone renders the question moot.

Here's another question. What is the extent of Healing that can be done? Can someone be Healed if they are fat to make them skinny? Kind of like One Power liposuction? What about Healing things like cancer, congestive heart failure, or asthma? If Nynaeve can Heal madness, other issues should be a snap, no?

You can get even more extreme than that. Could the OP be used to heal birth defects whilst the foetus is still developing, if caught early enough? What about later in life? Could it be used to mitigate the effects of a genetic condition, if not outright alleviate them? If so, could the One Power be used to change who people are?

What about tel'aran'rhiod? Could it be used for plastic surgery, or sex re-assignment, or other such procedures, if someone powerful enough fixes the idea of the way they or a patient wishes to be in their mind and they and/or the patient enter in the flesh?

fdsaf3
03-03-2012, 06:41 PM
Something tells me we're overthinking this. :P

GonzoTheGreat
03-04-2012, 04:09 AM
I wonder if Power forged surgical tools could be implemented. Seems like they could be. Then again, why you'd need to use a scalpel when you can simply Heal someone renders the question moot.
Maybe the Entmoot (Great Stump) would be interested in getting such implemented implements.
And the first AS to think of offering such a handy tool to Mat would probably get bonus points from all her Sisters, as he would and wouldn't want to have that both at the same time.