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Seeker
03-03-2012, 01:55 PM
So, on Dragonmount, Rand remembered hundreds and hundreds of lives, right? And presumably one of those lives featured him acting as the Light's champion in a struggle against the Dark One? And if we assume this age (which I'll call 3a) is similar enough to the previous third age (3b), then doesn't Rand already know what he has to do in the Last Battle?

Zombie Sammael
03-03-2012, 02:23 PM
So, on Dragonmount, Rand remembered hundreds and hundreds of lives, right? And presumably one of those lives featured him acting as the Light's champion in a struggle against the Dark One? And if we assume this age (which I'll call 3a) is similar enough to the previous third age (3b), then doesn't Rand already know what he has to do in the Last Battle?

That's why a lot of people think he only has memories from his most recent past life, in the AOL as LTT.

Davian93
03-03-2012, 03:34 PM
That's why a lot of people think he only has memories from his most recent past life, in the AOL as LTT.

I tend to think he very briefly had access to all of his past lives during the epiphany but only retained the ones from LTT...kinda like how Aiel women going through the arches only retain a vague idea of what their various paths would be.

Seeker
03-03-2012, 04:31 PM
Or there's another fun theory here.

Did you ever think that Rand's memories might be a form of cheating?

Zombie Sammael
03-03-2012, 04:39 PM
I tend to think he very briefly had access to all of his past lives during the epiphany but only retained the ones from LTT...kinda like how Aiel women going through the arches only retain a vague idea of what their various paths would be.

I think I agree that that's probably how it happened. A human mind only has so much "storage capacity", after all - that's why even old people without degenerative disorders are sometimes forgetful. It would probably be impossible for him to contain all of his past lives, even given the assistance of the OP*, without going insane or breaking down - it would require an infinite capacity.

*OP assistance must be why Aes Sedai and people like that can still remember the names of their parents.

GonzoTheGreat
03-04-2012, 05:02 AM
So, on Dragonmount, Rand remembered hundreds and hundreds of lives, right? And presumably one of those lives featured him acting as the Light's champion in a struggle against the Dark One? And if we assume this age (which I'll call 3a) is similar enough to the previous third age (3b), then doesn't Rand already know what he has to do in the Last Battle?
There is a clear and very obvious counter to that: the DO has a memory too.

So if Rand does indeed remember 3b, 3c and 3d, then he'll also remember that each time he needed a somewhat (or very) different solution, because the DO had made sure that whatever he did the previous time wouldn't work out now.

Rand may or may not remember those previous encounters. The DO almost certainly does.

Zombie Sammael
03-04-2012, 06:46 AM
There is a clear and very obvious counter to that: the DO has a memory too.

So if Rand does indeed remember 3b, 3c and 3d, then he'll also remember that each time he needed a somewhat (or very) different solution, because the DO had made sure that whatever he did the previous time wouldn't work out now.

Rand may or may not remember those previous encounters. The DO almost certainly does.

Unless the DO has a specific weakness or vulnerability, which he possibly does; the Creator was able to bind him in the first place somehow after all.

GonzoTheGreat
03-04-2012, 07:30 AM
Unless the DO has a specific weakness or vulnerability, which he possibly does; the Creator was able to bind him in the first place somehow after all.
And would the trick which accomplished that work again, or wouldn't the DO fall for it this time?

Zombie Sammael
03-04-2012, 08:11 AM
And would the trick which accomplished that work again, or wouldn't the DO fall for it this time?

It depends upon whether that vulnerability was some manner of external "trick" which the DO would now be capable of guarding against, or if it is a weakness inherent to his nature. Some combination of the two may also be possible, but that would depend upon Rand's ability to figure out a way to exploit such a vulnerability in a manner the DO could not guard against, so essentially the same as the second.

ETA: for example, in the case of the first idea, if the Creator simply said to the DO, "Hey, check out this awesome prison I've built! It's totally inescapable!" and the DO walked in, looked around, and said "Yes, it certainly looks rather difficult to get out - drat", he'd be unlikely to fall for that again.

On the other hand, if within the DO's metaphysical self, there is some flaw or characteristic which leads to a tendency to be bound, then he'd struggle to guard against. For example, what if the DO has to remain linked to the prison itself in order to act on the outside world? If that were the case, it wouldn't matter if he got out so long as you could close the prison again, as closing it would cause him to be drawn back in.

GonzoTheGreat
03-04-2012, 08:33 AM
Of course, a (fairly serious) problem with the latter idea is that to all appearances, if the DO were to manage to gain enough freedom then he would obliterate the "outside world", thus removing his dependence on the prison too.

Zombie Sammael
03-04-2012, 08:50 AM
Of course, a (fairly serious) problem with the latter idea is that to all appearances, if the DO were to manage to gain enough freedom then he would obliterate the "outside world", thus removing his dependence on the prison too.

Only in the sense that he'd be permanently connected to the "core". If you could build another prison around it, you could trap him again. Admittedly, that's not a lot of help to the current (previous?) world.

Also note that this is pure speculation. I think there is a little bit of evidence for the idea that the DO needs the prison, but all of it can be explained in other ways.

The Unreasoner
03-05-2012, 12:40 AM
I saw a lot of these sort of thoughts right after ToM, but they disappeared as soon as they came, except from the Egwene-bashing threads.

Another random thought I saw tossed around for a time was the idea that Rand needed to use the TP (and not just for escape) so that he would be able to see the TP weaves when he goes up against Morridin (like Graendal does).

Sodas
03-05-2012, 01:10 AM
Or there's another fun theory here.

Did you ever think that Rand's memories might be a form of cheating?

Not myself, because the belief is that LTT's memories were placed by the Wheel on purpose inside Rand's mind. And it's not to so much "cheating" as it's planning in advance to setup advantageous situations.