PDA

View Full Version : Just throwing this out there; WOT RTS game?


Rand al'Fain
03-21-2012, 10:10 PM
Kind of like the Total War series, you have the factions, the specialities, the varying types of troops...

I doubt it ever happens, even as a mod for a current game, but I just thought it would be interesting to command say, an army of Sheinarans beating back a horde of Trollocs and Halfmen. Or battling Illian as the commander of a Tairen army.

Anyways, thoughts on this? Just for opinions.

The Unreasoner
03-21-2012, 10:34 PM
A while back I made a custom Warcraft 3 map for wot. I made custom triggers and units and even found some custom models for some units. It was pretty cool, you could play as rand, siuan, Niall, or the Dark One (bubble of evil attack, infinite range, random effects in a selected area. Pretty cool, turns people into neutral hostile beetles, explodes friendlies, drains gold).

Anyway, I had some triggers to run the thing close to the book, but the balance was off (if rand builds the BT it's almost impossible to lose), but some things went off anyway. For example, Niall could become car'a'carn, and the DO almost always won (probably because the forsaken worked together). But it was like capturing command posts for victories. Each nation was represented by an invulnerable structure, and if a player could meet certain conditions, he would control it. Like Cairhien needs soldiers and a lot of grain, tear needs either rand or Niall.

But I'd be interested in doing this or something like it again. Especially if I have help. It took three months just to make all of the channeling moves and triggers.

final death
04-03-2012, 08:51 PM
A while back I made a custom Warcraft 3 map for wot. I made custom triggers and units and even found some custom models for some units. It was pretty cool, you could play as rand, siuan, Niall, or the Dark One (bubble of evil attack, infinite range, random effects in a selected area. Pretty cool, turns people into neutral hostile beetles, explodes friendlies, drains gold).

Anyway, I had some triggers to run the thing close to the book, but the balance was off (if rand builds the BT it's almost impossible to lose), but some things went off anyway. For example, Niall could become car'a'carn, and the DO almost always won (probably because the forsaken worked together). But it was like capturing command posts for victories. Each nation was represented by an invulnerable structure, and if a player could meet certain conditions, he would control it. Like Cairhien needs soldiers and a lot of grain, tear needs either rand or Niall.

But I'd be interested in doing this or something like it again. Especially if I have help. It took three months just to make all of the channeling moves and triggers.

That sounds so incredibly awesome. What kind of help would you need.

The Unreasoner
04-05-2012, 02:12 PM
I just played it today, I forgot how awesome it was. Buggy, and you can tell I spent way more time on some aspects than others (every regular soldier model was a footman or knight, for instance) but really very cool.

As for what help I need/could provide to others, it depends. If we got a few people taking it seriously with varied skillsets, we could put something together that is truly remarkable, and we could upload it to map/spell/model sharing sites so that we could get a decent few months of online multiplayer playtime before AMoL. If we just want to take what I've done and fix the bugs, maybe add a Tuon/Matt/or Fain, I could do it myself, and incorporate a few of all your ideas.

Part of it depends on what the actual gameplay will be like. Do you want it to play like a Warcraft Map? Or do you want to make it more like what I did (a sort of Diablo/Civilization/Star Wars Battlefront)? I really like the latter, especially how it really fits in with the way the books work nicely (theres no real construction/destruction of bases, its more capturing and defending Command posts and territories)

If we go my way, a player only directly controls a single unit. everything else is done by player units regulated by triggers. For example, Rand can have ashaman 'scout' by typing 'scout' as a chat message and then clicking on an area in the minimap. After he does this Ashaman will fan out a bit then each move forward in a zigzag pattern with the warden's 'blink' move (short range teleportation) to the selected point. Niall can 'pillage' an area by typing 'pillage' and clicking (he summons neutral hostile bandits that don't really do too much, but they roam around and attack what they can find in an area. they ignore Niall's troops though). 'Pillage' is like Carridin's dragonsworn, and it basically affects a region's capture properties for everyone but niall where it works.

But the gameplay itself is pretty simple: the whole map is divided into large regions, and each region has a neutral hostile structure (i pretty much used Arcane Tower for most of them, but Shayol Ghul is the Frozen Throne, and Andor is a castle). And each region has certain conditions that need to be met to take control of it. For instance in Cairhien you need twice as many troops as there are bandits in the region (except niall, of course) and the ten troops closest to the city need to be yours. (you also need grain, but thats a resource i made up, you get it by holding Andor or Tear without many bandits in the region).

Each 'main' player has unique moves, and some are really cool/cheap. Niall can assassinate rulers of cities (not the main characters, and not anyone you ever actually 'see'), but he can type 'dispatch assassin' and click on cairhien, and if there aren't enough troops in the region of the owner of the city, Cairhien becomes neutral again and bandits spawn randomly. The Dark One can dispatch a Forsaken to a city by typing the Forsaken's name then clicking on a city (it doesn't work on Rhuhidean though, or a city that Rand/Siuan/Niall is nearby) and can instantly gain the city. If Rand's there they fight, if Siuan or Niall's there they basically just become spies: you can see the area and spawn DFs from the city).


But yeah, I think that gives the gist of the idea. As for what help I'd need, for a really well done map the steps needed are:

1. Someone more artistically talented and patient than me to make the actual terrain (mine's pretty bland), and place the main structures.

2. Deciding what main characters to make, what their abilities are, what kind of supporting units are needed

3. Actually making the abilities and the triggers to govern player units

4. Actually making the global triggers to enforce victory conditions, manage AI behavior, and the UIs

5. Making the units themselves, and choosing good (even custom) models for them and their abilities

6. Testing/adjusting the final stats to make it balanced and realistic


It may be that limiting control to a single player isn't ideal: for instance my DO is stationary, if powerful, but has to rely on computer controlled players to actually fight and whatnot. Maybe each major team can have a few, and you can switch your active and let the AI takeover the rest (so, the DO can switch to a Forsaken or SH, Rand can switch to Perrin or Mat, Siuan can switch to Egwene (or Elaida), Niall can go to Carridin or Balwer or Valda or Galad...maybe add Tuon/Suroth/Karede/Morr/Turak. It could get pretty cool.

final death
04-06-2012, 02:06 PM
I agree that you should be able to switch to another character for general mode or something to command troops which you can use to capture places with military power. Like i think the dark one should be able to switch to a general probably shadar haran or demandred and control Trollocs with horde like mechanics for example. Also random negative effects for using the forsaken to show how they don't cooperate perfectly. Like
1. take over random territory25% chance
2. nothing because other forsaken interfered 50% chance
3. weaken forces in the area you sent them to via a spell similar to death and decay.25% chance

Nazbaque
04-07-2012, 02:31 AM
I think this would work better if instead of the Shadow you'd have say four or five Forsaken players who all aim for becoming Nae'bliss. Ishamael, Demandred, Graendal, Sammael and Semirhage for example and the others would be recruitable characters for any of them if they meet certain conditions.

The actual victory of the Shadow happens if the DO breaks free before the forces of Light achieve victory conditions. At the beginning of the game there is a set time after which the DO breaks free. Every time a seal is destroyed it cuts a chunk out of the remaining time and the forsaken responsible gains DO's favour points. There can be several other ways to gain DOF points like simple control of the map and kill total and of course their more advanced forms of controlling key locations like the White Tower and eliminating hero characters like Perrin and Mat. When the DO breaks free the Forsaken with the most DOF points becomes Nae'bliss and wins the game.

Flinn Sedai
04-07-2012, 02:20 PM
I agree that you should be able to switch to another character for general mode or something to command troops which you can use to capture places with military power. Like i think the dark one should be able to switch to a general probably shadar haran or demandred and control Trollocs with horde like mechanics for example. Also random negative effects for using the forsaken to show how they don't cooperate perfectly. Like
1. take over random territory25% chance
2. nothing because other forsaken interfered 50% chance
3. weaken forces in the area you sent them to via a spell similar to death and decay.25% chance

Might be better to set it up so that the Forsaken are playable characters, and the Dark One can just incentivize them to do what he wants. His physical avatar would be SH, and maybe Moridin (although my friend is dead convinced that he's going to turn).

I'd definitely be interested in helping to set up abilities, supporting units, triggers, balance, victory conditions, etc... No artistic talent here.

I'm more used to working with Starcraft, but my understanding is that the extended map editors from SC are similar to Warcraft's.

An important question is where in the books, do we want the map to start? The beginning, books 3, 5, or 8? Those would seem to be the most logical breaking points, to me.

Darkdwarf
04-20-2012, 07:27 PM
This concept actually sounds really amazing. I hope you guys have the patience to actually make it whole, and not stop halfway. :)

Rand al'Fain
04-21-2012, 01:51 AM
This concept actually sounds really amazing. I hope you guys have the patience to actually make it whole, and not stop halfway. :)

I've heard of several mods for the Total War games, but they have all been abandoned part way through.

McCaber
04-22-2012, 02:18 AM
I don't know about a PC game, but I would love a pen and paper RPG that wasn't just a reskinned d20 and that actually used the cool things the setting and story have to offer.

Rand al'Fain
04-22-2012, 11:14 AM
I don't know about a PC game, but I would love a pen and paper RPG that wasn't just a reskinned d20 and that actually used the cool things the setting and story have to offer.

Actually, some mods, like a Lord of the Rings mod for Medival 2 Total War had created units, factions, and even an entire map for the mod. There are quite a few videos of it on youtube.

Oden
04-23-2012, 05:24 AM
I don't know about a PC game, but I would love a pen and paper RPG that wasn't just a reskinned d20 and that actually used the cool things the setting and story have to offer.

I have worked a lot on this (http://theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=170747#post170747). I'm not inclined to steer my friends too much so I have prepared many possible scenarios. It's a working progress and, if you're interested, I can share what I have made so far. Not today though, I have a test at medschool tomorrow and I need to study some more

McCaber
04-24-2012, 12:47 AM
I have worked a lot on this (http://theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=170747#post170747). I'm not inclined to steer my friends too much so I have prepared many possible scenarios. It's a working progress and, if you're interested, I can share what I have made so far. Not today though, I have a test at medschool tomorrow and I need to study some more

Interesting. I don't think I'd force them into being book characters, but I'd take what the players gave me and have them be the Big Damn Heroes of the WoT. I mean, on paper Rand is a Gary Stu of the highest level (son of a princess, half badass desert warrior, the reincarnation of the guy who saved the world, and can use exotic forbidden power doomed to end his life), and he turned out alright. So instead of a set plot for them I'd have NPCs with motivations the players can react to and a schedule of events that will happen if the players don't put a stop to them.

I haven't yet found a system that could do it perfectly, but Burning Wheel plus retouched combat styles plus a new magic system might be the closest. Maybe try to bolt on the one from Mage.

Oden
04-25-2012, 08:05 AM
Since my friends haven't read the books, most of my preparations has been making cheat sheets that are relevant for them in understanding the world and general AS's and WC's MO.