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View Full Version : Who is the most competent villain in Wheel of Time?


Karak Norn Clansman
04-13-2012, 07:25 PM
Title says it all, although opinions may come to change with AMoL. Explain why you think so, and don't hesitate to name your favourite villain(s).

I find Semirhage to be the most competent one of the Forsaken, and thus probably the entire cast of villains, since she actually toppled a large empire. The Forsaken could have Traveled across the land, killing most of the high leaders and throwing every country into disarray or civil war, like Seanchan or Arad Doman. Whilst most Forsaken were content with petty plotting against each other and seizing little Wetland kingdoms for themselves, Semirhage sowed Chaos like none other.

Besides Semirhage, my favourite villains are mad scientist Aginor and anti-everything freak Padan Fain.

Davian93
04-13-2012, 07:36 PM
Demandred...his forces are ready.

frenchie
04-13-2012, 07:44 PM
I've said this to you before, Dav, but I hope you are right. They've spent the entire series bulding up Demandred. I just hope he's not a let down like most of the Forsaken.

As for me, Isha'mael almost converted Rand to his own philosophy, which would have allowed the Dark to achive his ultimate goal.

finnssss
04-13-2012, 07:45 PM
Ishamael/Moridin

Ran the Trolloc wars, raided the White Tower, created the Black Ajah, manipulated Hawkwing and his Kin just to name some of the more major things.

His influence on events is far ranging and still felt heavily today.



Fain is the most interesting but to say he's been successful at much to this point...no.

Davian93
04-13-2012, 08:41 PM
I've said this to you before, Dav, but I hope you are right. They've spent the entire series bulding up Demandred. I just hope he's not a let down like most of the Forsaken.

As for me, Isha'mael almost converted Rand to his own philosophy, which would have allowed the Dark to achive his ultimate goal.

I assume he'll be able to sneak up on Rand undetected during the Last Battle, he'll then prepare an inverted balefire weave only to stumble on rock and impale himself on a spear.

Kimon
04-13-2012, 09:08 PM
I assume he'll be able to sneak up on Rand undetected during the Last Battle, he'll then prepare an inverted balefire weave only to stumble on rock and impale himself on a spear.

Demandred seems reminiscent of Pyrrhus of Epirus. I'm guessing that in the closing stages of his sack of Caemlyn that some random old woman grabs a roof tile and chucks it at him.

As for the competency of villains, aside from Ishamael/Moridin, Taim really has been the most impressive and most accomplished. Hopefully his fatal showdown with Logain doesn't disappoint as much as Egwene vs. Mesaana did.

maleshub
04-13-2012, 11:21 PM
Aside from the Foresaken, Alviarin was doing a pretty good job for a while. The WT almost crumbled by under her leadership of the BA, even before Mesaana escaped and started giving her orders.

GonzoTheGreat
04-14-2012, 04:53 AM
Aside from the Foresaken, Alviarin was doing a pretty good job for a while. The WT almost crumbled by under her leadership of the BA, even before Mesaana escaped and started giving her orders.
Alviarin probably would have done even better if Mesaana hadn't send her off on some wild goose chase.

Considering his limitations, I think that Narg did well too.
But of course, the master of them all is the DO.

Tomp
04-14-2012, 06:18 AM
You've forgotten about Bela.

She's so far remained unnoticed by the protagonists. She will soon make her move against Rand with the information she's collected through the telepathic control she's established over those who's ridden her.

Bela will influence the decisions of Rand, Egwene and Siuan.

That is why Moiraine has to be there, she must use Balefire against Bela. Moiraine got the information on Bela's true nature in Finnland.

Oden
04-14-2012, 11:00 AM
You mustn't forget that Perrin rode Bela as well, though he did not like it (wolfbrother thingy?)

GonzoTheGreat
04-14-2012, 11:04 AM
You mustn't forget that Perrin rode Bela as well, though he did not like it (wolfbrother thingy?)
Elias didn't, but then, he was a more experienced wolfbrother at the time.

Tomp
04-14-2012, 11:59 AM
You mustn't forget that Perrin rode Bela as well, though he did not like it (wolfbrother thingy?)

We'll see if he was protected by the wolves or if he also will be controlled by the "beast of damnation".

Edynol
04-14-2012, 12:09 PM
Well for those that count Verin a villain, I would say her, as far as making an impact goes, though I don't consider her a villain. But I can see some would since she was part of an evil organization, even if only to ultimately betray them.

Anyways, I have to go with Ishy/Mori.

Davian93
04-14-2012, 12:44 PM
As for the competency of villains, aside from Ishamael/Moridin, Taim really has been the most impressive and most accomplished. Hopefully his fatal showdown with Logain doesn't disappoint as much as Egwene vs. Mesaana did.

If I had to bet, I would bet that Taim is killed by a sword...given his disdain for the weapon and his overall disdain for weapons training in general.

Weird Harold
04-14-2012, 03:23 PM
After a good deal of thought, I think Greandal is almost competent and that's the best anyone can say about any of the Forsaken.

Ishamael has accomplished a great deal, but he's had several thousand years to work with. His record since the beginning of the series hasn't been exactly sterling.

TankSpill
04-14-2012, 09:49 PM
My vote's been with Taim for awhile now, and after ToM, I feel even more strongly about it. Alvy did well for awhile, but like someone above said, Forsaken politics got in the way.

Fain certainly hasn't slowed down either, no telling what zombie-trollocs are going to be doing in the final book.

None of the Forsaken have impressed me, though Moridin at least doesn't disappoint me.

Frenzy
04-15-2012, 03:41 AM
Oooh, good question. i too have always been a fan of Semirhage. She brought the Seanchan to their knees, the other of the Chosen are honestly scared of her, and she managed to subdue Rand. Not many others can say that. She only lost because Rand cheated.

Has Fain been competent? I'm pretty sure all of his plots & schemes have failed, but he's survived thru all the books so far. That counts for something.

i think we can safely say that Elaida was the most incompetent villain.

Oden
04-15-2012, 05:14 AM
I would nominate Daved Hanlon, a.k.a. Doilin Mellar. He did become the captain of the queen's bodyguard, harassed Caemlyn, got an Aes Sedai "slave" and stole one of the silver medallions, hurting the queen in his sortie.

GonzoTheGreat
04-15-2012, 05:21 AM
i think we can safely say that Elaida was the most incompetent villain.
What has Slayer actually achieved?
He killed two members of the Keystone Coven, and that's about it, I think.

Seeker
04-15-2012, 04:10 PM
The most competant villain is...

Elayne. She's done more to bring down the Light from the inside than any of the Forsaken and Fain combined. If only her schemes to keep putting herself in danger so that our heroes must rescue her would pay off and get one of them killed. She'd be named Nae'Blis in no time.

Sarevok
04-15-2012, 04:27 PM
Hehe. I was about to suggest Elaida here, for about the same reasons. :)

Boli
04-16-2012, 05:51 AM
Most competent Villain?

Latra Posae Decume

(Who?).. the female Aes Sedai who was intrumental in the Fateful Concord.... an action which meant only men would be avialible for The Strike at Shayol Ghul. Which basically caused the breaking of the world, the taint on saidain and generally messed everything up.

ofc it remains to be seen if she did a "good thing" (no saidier taint) or a bad thing (it could have all been sorted 1,000 years ago).

I'm more on the side that she was a Darkfriend manipulating the light from within; which makes her tyhe most competant villain who is not the Dark One :)


My other alternative is Lanfear for the drilling of the bore in the first place :)

Grig
04-16-2012, 10:55 AM
(Who?).. the female Aes Sedai who was intrumental in the Fateful Concord.... an action which meant only men would be avialible for The Strike at Shayol Ghul. Which basically caused the breaking of the world, the taint on saidain and generally messed everything up.

If women were there and a SaSG type attack enacted, saidar would have been tainted too. Jordan has stated that clearly. That would have been much worse. Recall LTT's whole "something had to touch the DO" shtick. Women there would not have made a difference in that sort of attack, the fatal flaw with the plan would still be present.

Granted, LTT might have been planning something completely differently with the women. But that's not made clear anywhere.

Weiramon
04-16-2012, 01:56 PM
Burn my soul, no mention of this Logain Ablar fellow?

Allowed several dozen Sisters to infiltrate the Black Tower, and has almost succeeded in dividing the Black Tower and turn it against the loyal Lord Taim.

Edynol
04-16-2012, 02:14 PM
Burn my soul, no mention of this Logain Ablar fellow?

Allowed several dozen Sisters to infiltrate the Black Tower, and has almost succeeded in dividing the Black Tower and turn it against the loyal Lord Taim.
XD I think you'd be a lot of fun rp with. Just sayin. lol.

suttree
04-16-2012, 02:14 PM
Most competent Villain?

Latra Posae Decume

(Who?).. the female Aes Sedai who was intrumental in the Fateful Concord.... an action which meant only men would be avialible for The Strike at Shayol Ghul. Which basically caused the breaking of the world, the taint on saidain and generally messed everything up.

ofc it remains to be seen if she did a "good thing" (no saidier taint) or a bad thing (it could have all been sorted 1,000 years ago).

I'm more on the side that she was a Darkfriend manipulating the light from within; which makes her tyhe most competant villain who is not the Dark One :)


The plan was flawed and Rand knows this. In addition RJ has flat out stated the only difference if the women had been involved would have been for Saidar to have been tainted as well. LPD said the plan was too risky and she ended up being right, if not for the reasons initially thought.

As for her being a DF that is unlikely bordering on impossible. She was instrumental in helping the world get through the breaking and earned the nickname Shadar Nor(Cutter of the Shadow) for her efforts in the fighting.

GonzoTheGreat
04-17-2012, 04:36 AM
As for her being a DF that is unlikely bordering on impossible. She was instrumental in helping the world get through the breaking and earned the nickname Shadar Nor(Cutter of the Shadow) for her efforts in the fighting.
So she eliminated the competition (other DF) and at the same time convinced the rest of the female AS to give up on their attempts to combat the Taint. What makes you think she served the Light, precisely?

Nazbaque
04-17-2012, 05:23 AM
Hmmmmm is there such a thing as "the most competent" among completely incompetent people? I mean let's face it the Wheel has been turning for a VERY long time and the DO still hasn't managed to break free. But the least incompetent so far would be Asmodean who gave Couladin his dragon marks and forced Rand to reveal the truth to the Aiel crippling the most powerful army in the world who would probably have conquered all of the wetlands for Rand by book 7 or at least 9 then conquered the Blight in one or two books and after one more book Rand would have figured out how to remake the DO's prison and the heroes would have spent the remaining books happily gambling for their places in the history books eventually losing all their glory to Mat. Asmodean ruined it all!

maleshub
04-22-2012, 08:17 PM
BTW, Shadar Haran strikes me as a very competent villain.

GonzoTheGreat
04-23-2012, 04:41 AM
BTW, Shadar Haran strikes me as a very competent villain.
Maybe, but like a lot of seemingly competent supervillains, he has surrounded himself with a rather incompetent set of followers.

Jasin Natael
04-23-2012, 06:54 AM
Sammael. He's responsible for scattering the Shaido, almost killed Rand at the battle of Cairhien, and is I think one of the only forsaken besides Graendal that Rand actually spent a long time planning to defeat.

Bonus points for not fighting Rand in T'AR, where not having a clue what you are doing is an advantage, but goading your attacker into coming to a dangerous place where you have an army waiting.

And without Moridin, he even would have won that battle.