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SauceyBlueConfetti
05-08-2012, 10:17 AM
I loved this tidbit from Lupusdeuset's signing questions to Brandon (good job btw!): I think he felt a little sad about my Sorilea attempt and his inevitable RAFO, and thus offered the following tidbit:
"At least one of the named characters is an unrevealed Darkfriend."I know that this is pretty much a given anyway, but the way he said it - the way he <I> presented<I> it (with this gleam in his eyes and an invisible flourish) it suggests it is… not any old named character, but one with some importance. Of course, that is just my opinion and as such is… debatable.
But have we a list of second- and third-tier named characters who could possibly be Darkfriends?


With IvySedai's questioning whether Tenobia may be a DF, I think this deserves its own thread.

Who do YOU think may be a Darkfriend, and why? Let's try to limit the arguing on this one...maybe just a quick name and a brief explanation of why. Even if it is just a gut instinct, it will be interesting to see who pegs the DFs when the book finally reveals all.

What about Me? Me, you ask? Wellll, I always believed it was Siuan (http://theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=458&highlight=Siuan) (my argument starts at post 26 in the thread) But that was debunked when she helped "rescue" Egwene and retook her vows. Or was it? :D Her oaths were broken when she was stilled, so who knows what other oaths she HAD. Or HAS now. :p Sorry, I just cannot let go. EDITED TO ADD: I also predicted it on the YUKU boards 12/22/2003. Prediction: (Average Rating: 1)
I believe Siuan will turn out to be a darkfriend who has been working against Rand (and Moiraine) since the beginning (including her actions in New Spring)
Predictor:
SauceyBlueConfetti
2003-12-22

Davian93
05-08-2012, 10:19 AM
Rand is a Darkfriend.

Davian93
05-08-2012, 10:20 AM
Other potential DFs: Sorilea (really think she is) and/or Amys.

SauceyBlueConfetti
05-08-2012, 10:22 AM
Rand is a Darkfriend.

Play nice D or I will have to smack you repeatedly.

Davian93
05-08-2012, 10:23 AM
Play nice D or I will have to smack you repeatedly.

I was actually referring to the "Moridin is secretly controlling Rand" theory.

GonzoTheGreat
05-08-2012, 10:42 AM
Has the Dark Min theory been shot down, yet?
Rand may not ever have looked into her eyes, after all.

Another good candidate would be Rhuarc.

Davian93
05-08-2012, 10:50 AM
Has the Dark Min theory been shot down, yet?
Rand may not ever have looked into her eyes, after all.

Another good candidate would be Rhuarc.

Rhuarc is a good candidate.

I dont think Rand has ever looked Min in the eyes...just the back of the head for some reason.

Ishara
05-08-2012, 11:06 AM
Has the Dark Min theory been shot down, yet?
Rand may not ever have looked into her eyes, after all.

Another good candidate would be Rhuarc.

I LOVE this theory, and always have. I suppose though, that there are enough examples in ToM that show us Rand gazing at Min (or vice versa) to disprove it. Bleh.

SauceyBlueConfetti
05-08-2012, 11:11 AM
I LOVE this theory, and always have. I suppose though, that there are enough examples in ToM that show us Rand gazing at Min (or vice versa) to disprove it. Bleh.

Oh, don't give up so easily. While looking around for my full Siuan theory (still cannot locate it) I found a thread of discussion whether Sheriam was Black Ajah. And the arguments against it were pretty tight. And yet we were proven WRONG.

GonzoTheGreat
05-08-2012, 11:17 AM
I LOVE this theory, and always have. I suppose though, that there are enough examples in ToM that show us Rand gazing at Min (or vice versa) to disprove it. Bleh.
That's why she wears those tight breeches; to keep him looking not-at-her-eyes.

Davian93
05-08-2012, 11:24 AM
Serious potential Darkfriends (IMHO)

1. Sorilea
2. Amys
3. Rhuarc
4. 1-2 of Caddy's Aes Sedai followers
5. Tenobia (like this one)
6. Agelmar...that would be funny/sad.
7. Selucia (I have a feeling there's more than 1 major Seanchan Darkfriend)

Boli
05-08-2012, 11:26 AM
Alanna Mosvani - is my personal favorite; although I have a hunch this "unknown Dark friend" is like Intar and will eventually work for the light. I coudl see her bonding like 100 warders and going nuts at the shadow :P

Grig
05-08-2012, 11:30 AM
Oh, don't give up so easily. While looking around for my full Siuan theory (still cannot locate it) I found a thread of discussion whether Sheriam was Black Ajah. And the arguments against it were pretty tight. And yet we were proven WRONG.

There hasn't been a WHAM Darkfriend reveal since Ingtar, though (and even then there were hints, but they were subtle and very open to interpretation). There have always been strong arguments to make against certain people being Darkfriends (why does Verin help Rand, why is Sheriam so incompetent at doing evil, etc.), but it's always obvious in hindsight that they were indeed Darkfriends all along.. There's no way to make Min work on that level.

I still have Sorilea pegged. Or Bair, I guess, but Sorilea has more indicators.

although I have a hunch this "unknown Dark friend" is like Intar and will eventually work for the light. I coudl see her bonding like 100 warders and going nuts at the shadow :P

I hope not. Verin's reveal was awesome, but now it's been done.

Weiramon
05-08-2012, 11:37 AM
Burn my soul, that ancient Wise One is certainly no Friend . . . I mean Darkfriend. You might as well claim she unleashed chaos, forcing Wise Ones to use the One Power against each other, revealing secret weaves, and other ridiculous accusations.

No, the one to watch closely is this Ablar fellow. Stripped of his titles, it is no surprise he turned to the Shadow, sewing discord within the Black Tower and undermining the loyal Lord Taim. Now he has disappeared, no doubt fearing to be revealed for what he is. Best he be found and stilled or executed.

Tomp
05-08-2012, 12:17 PM
I think Dyelin might be a DF.

The reason she helps Elayne instead of seizing power is orders from your resident forsaken.

greatwolf
05-08-2012, 03:35 PM
Well there will certainly be more seanchan DFs. Suroth had accomplices. And who impersonated Tuon? Semi or Graendal? Who helped the impersonation succeed?

Mor was certain seekers had been corrupted. And its certainly Ishy's way to have a finger in every pie. He the control freak type.

WinespringBrother
05-08-2012, 03:47 PM
Oh, don't give up so easily. While looking around for my full Siuan theory (still cannot locate it) I found a thread of discussion whether Sheriam was Black Ajah. And the arguments against it were pretty tight. And yet we were proven WRONG.

Would that be this thread? (http://theoryland.yuku.com/topic/2943?page=1)

Searching on Yuku seems to be broken now :eek: But I found this thread mentioning Siuan, via google:

http://theoryland.yuku.com/topic/3386

Flinn Sedai
05-08-2012, 04:03 PM
I'm still pretty convince Leane is a DF. We have a bit of a pattern developed.

Duhara Basaheen - Keeper
Sheriam - Mistress of Novices, Keeper
Alviarin - Keeper

Merean Redhill - Mistress of Novices
Katerine Alruddin - Mistress of Novices

She always seemed a bit suspect to me, and she'd be an interesting one to be Black.

Landro
05-08-2012, 04:58 PM
Alviarin was part of the coup against Siuan. She knows all BA. Why have a black sister stilled?

maleshub
05-08-2012, 05:33 PM
For a while I suspected Alliandre to be a Darkfriend. She acted suspiciously in one or two scenes. She would be an interesting DF carefully placed close to Perrin and Rand to strike when they least expect.

SauceyBlueConfetti
05-08-2012, 06:21 PM
Would that be this thread? (http://theoryland.yuku.com/topic/2943?page=1)

Searching on Yuku seems to be broken now :eek: But I found this thread mentioning Siuan, via google:

http://theoryland.yuku.com/topic/3386

no, actually this one (http://theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=676&highlight=Siuan)

yks 6nnetu hing
05-09-2012, 03:00 AM
Are we certain that Berelain walks in the Light?
How about Aludra?
I know! Olver is a darkfriend!

Lupusdeusest
05-09-2012, 05:05 AM
I've always suspected one of the Sisters once with Mat (the whole weighing two Sisters thing, which has likely been done with Verin/Mo) and at least one of the Sisters with Perrin (via Shiny Dragon "Man" theory), although I have not thought on these two pets for a while.
I love the concept of Sorilea as DF (BS was a little too quick on the uptake with my qs on that one, lol). Dobraine I have also favoured, simply because he's so... dependable.

Davian93
05-09-2012, 07:36 AM
Of course, Dobraine was nearly killed by Darkfriends looking for the Seals...that would be one hell of a way for him to prove his loyalty. He shouldn't have survived that attack.

Landro
05-09-2012, 08:08 AM
Of course, Dobraine was nearly killed by Darkfriends looking for the Seals...that would be one hell of a way for him to prove his loyalty. He shouldn't have survived that attack.

I agree. Dobraine walks in the light

Lost One
12-15-2012, 08:46 PM
I think it might be one of the non-allied AS that were with Perrin or Cadsuane, those withe borderlanders are not really named. I would not even list them as tertiary/third-tier. But when they get to Merrilor, they will all be pulled aside and re-sworn. I might guess Alanna, but too easy.

What about Timolin? Or is he not a high enough ranked character?

I might guess Elyas because his AS found out, but the wolves would have torn him apart.

Hope it is not Dobrain

What about Balwer? Deals in secrets, worms his way close to leaders, offers advice to them.. kept wanting Perrin to focus on the Children of Light.. Why. Because he was pissed at valda or.. maybe some Dark Prophecy indicates the CoL will be instrumental at TG. YEP I am going with Balwer

GonzoTheGreat
12-16-2012, 04:50 AM
What about Balwer? Deals in secrets, worms his way close to leaders, offers advice to them.. kept wanting Perrin to focus on the Children of Light.. Why. Because he was pissed at valda or.. maybe some Dark Prophecy indicates the CoL will be instrumental at TG. YEP I am going with Balwer
If it had been Balwer, then he would have eaten Perrin long since. And perhaps killed him too, somewhere in the process.

I don't think that Dark Balwer would be all that much nicer than Padan Fain, he would be smarter and consequently almost certainly a lot more effective.

Dom
12-17-2012, 10:13 AM
If it had been Balwer, then he would have eaten Perrin long since. And perhaps killed him too, somewhere in the process.

I agree on Balwer.

And given all the efforts put on killing Perrin and Mat, you'd think if the Shadow had an agent in either's inner circle, they would have used it by now.

It's especially true for the AS. Moridin seems to know or have a way to identify the BA.

There's also the fact the Borderlanders's thirteen, the sisters with Perrin, Cadsuane's group are all a Merrilor. Egwene won't lose much time before she's got them all tested with the Oath Rod. It's a bit pointless to have unrevealed BA in that lot, unless we're about to learn one or more of those sisters have suddenly vanished.

Terez
12-17-2012, 10:48 AM
1. Sorilea
2. Masuri
3. Would be surprised if anyone above those two in importance is a Darkfriend.

Annoura is another possibility but I can't make up my mind about her for some reason.

Lost One
12-17-2012, 10:53 AM
What abot him?

1. He is a new Character
2. As king, he would be someone of importance, especially with all the effort in finding him
3. Iturade will do whatever he says.

However, this does not work as he has been subjected to Rand-o-vision

Zombie Sammael
12-17-2012, 10:57 AM
What abot him?

1. He is a new Character
2. As king, he would be someone of importance, especially with all the effort in finding him
3. Iturade will do whatever he says.

However, this does not work as he has been subjected to Rand-o-vision

Rand-o-vision doesn't work the way you think it does. It is neither a new power, nor an infallible detector of Darkfriends.

frenchie
12-17-2012, 02:13 PM
Evidence points towards Alsalam not being a Darkfriend . Graendal doesn't use Darkfriends as her pets, and when Sammael commented that he was surprised Alsalam wasn't within her pets, she dismissed the suggestion, as she only used the finest looking, and he wasn't up to her standards.

Mimi
12-17-2012, 02:32 PM
What about Faile?

Dom
12-17-2012, 03:27 PM
What about Faile?

Faile had POVs proving she's not a Darkfriend.

Dom
12-17-2012, 03:48 PM
2. Masuri

Annoura is another possibility but I can't make up my mind about her for some reason.

Because of the dealings with Masema?

It's about something else than them being DF, I think.

It relates to the whole matter of whether Rand's orders regarding Masema should or shouldn't be obeyed.

Annoura participated to that jointed WO-AS initiative in Berelain's back. Annoura thus placed other interests before Mayene's, as Berelain is convinced her interests lay in her service to the Dragon Reborn. Berelain probably didn't get a straight answer from Annoura, or got one of those "WT business" ones. Berelain can be very Paendrag at times. She seems to have seen this as a betrayal, and she's given the cold shoulder to Annoura since. Those two seemed fairly close, with Annoura having been before a loyal accomplice in Berelain's schemes. With her dealings in Berelain's back, Annoura ruined it.

It's still ongoing, Brandon referred to it again. We'll probably see before the end why it's relevant that Berelain distrusts Annoura now, and possibly this changed her favorable views on Aes Sedai in general. This has Hawkwing-ish overtones.

RJ set up a few things with Berelain that have not really played out yet.

*shrugs*. Now that they've "returned to civilization" and the WT leaders are close, perhaps Berelain will officially dismiss Annoura and tell the Tower she refuses to have another advisor. Berelain is throwing her lot with Rand, that's almost for certain. I guess it's well to remember that another thing RJ set up mid-series is that Egwene and Berelain really don't like each other much.

Terez
12-17-2012, 04:27 PM
Because of the dealings with Masema?
Yes, and mostly because we know that whoever was causing the visions was female. But also for some other reasons. Masuri's great knowledge of Darkhounds, for example.

Dom
12-17-2012, 05:06 PM
Yes, and mostly because we know that whoever was causing the visions was female. But also for some other reasons. Masuri's great knowledge of Darkhounds, for example.

Everything points to the visions having come from Cyndane/Lanfear, though - from how it originally began in TDR (where it all began with dreams) to Graendal's reference that Cyndane and Moghedien were mustering DF for TG but also occasionally busy south trying to accomplish Moridin's orders (almost certainly a reference to Perrin/Mat).

Moghedien was the one Moridin kept using in Caemlyn - and she doesn't know Perrin and we know she's not looked into Rand early on, so it's probably Cyndane who made an attempt with Masema, after the attempt in Amadicia failed. She's most likely the one who manipulated his dreams before, so she knew how to operate.

The one who sent the visions had to know how to manipulate Masema. She pretty much had to be a skilled dreamwalker and possibly one with a Dreaming talent if that's required to enter other people's dreams.

It's also not like Moridin much to let go. If Annoura failed with Masema, she'd have gotten orders to try again and not fail this time. Annoura/Masuri were involved in fairly chaotic events, they had plenty of opportunities to deal with Perrin.

As for the DH, it's not so surprising knowledge from a Brown from the Borderlands, and if she's BA she didn't have Verin's excuse to find ways to pass information to the Light like that. There's Sheriam who passed some, but Sheriam is a known blabbermouth who talked way too much when she was upset (and both times she blabbered about Shadow stuff to the girls, she was quite upset).

I'll be surprised if one of Perrin's three is BA. They've not been used much by RJ (like most of the other "hidden" BA were... Sheriam, Alviarin, Elza, Verin, Careane etc.) and coming to Merrilor they'd be about to be caught by Egwene if they're BA anyway. Egwene won't let an Aes Sedai advisor who's close to Perrin beside remain untested long. Cadsuane and her circle are others Egwene won't let long remain unproven.

Daekyras
12-17-2012, 08:47 PM
1. Sorilea
2. Masuri
3. Would be surprised if anyone above those two in importance is a Darkfriend.

Annoura is another possibility but I can't make up my mind about her for some reason.

Does Roedran count as a guess?? :D

anyway, as some of you know, from probably my first days on this site i've been behind the idea that both Rhuarc and Berelain are darkfriends. I would love at least one of them to be....

Also, T, maybe this is inappropriate to ask but have you a copy of the book? I kinda assume you do and therefor i'm taking your suggestiins with a grain of salt!

Also,

Terez
12-17-2012, 08:50 PM
Does Roedran count as a guess?? :D
Nah, he's Demandred, which is different from being a random sleeper Darkfriend. :)

Also, T, maybe this is inappropriate to ask but have you a copy of the book?Not yet. ;) If I get one early I will announce it. I won't continue to theorize.

Daekyras
12-17-2012, 08:54 PM
Nah, he's Demandred, which is different from being a random sleeper Darkfriend. :)

Not yet. ;) If I get one early I will announce it. I won't continue to theorize.

Class act as always T. :)