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Tomp
05-22-2012, 02:56 PM
I was driving to a job interview today (2 x ~430 km) and had a lot of listening time for KoD.

I have always thought that RJ became very boob oriented in this book.
I realised though that is probably because Mat has a lot of POVs compared to other books.

As soon as Mat meets women he first evaluates their breasts in comparison to other women.
It is almost an unconscious act.
As soon that he see a woman his eyes goes directly to their bosom.
It is a high rate of women who is described in the infamous way (arms folded beneath the breasts) when it's a Mat POV compared to other POVs.

When you compare it with Rand.
He almost never fixates on Cadsuane's or Alivia's funbags (struggling to come up with new words).

The funny part is of course when Mat gets irritated of Olvers ogling of womens breasts and wonders who has the bad influence on him.

Heinz
05-22-2012, 03:00 PM
When you compare it with Rand.
He almost never fixates on Cadsuane's or Alivia's funbags (struggling to come up with new words).


Not the word usage that comes to mind in reference to Cadsuane, no matter their size comparison.

But yes, I imagine Mat's personality does focus more on these than Rand or Perrin (or the girls).

Crispin's Crispian
05-22-2012, 03:56 PM
I think it's because breasts are more PC to discuss than other parts. Can you imagine the outcry if Perrin turned out to be an assman?

GonzoTheGreat
05-23-2012, 04:00 AM
Can you imagine the outcry if Perrin turned out to be an assman?
Faile folder her arms under her ...

Yeah, would be a bit awkward, wouldn't it?

Terez
05-23-2012, 04:24 AM
Hips.

yks 6nnetu hing
05-23-2012, 04:55 AM
Rand is always looking at the sway of Min's hips




just saying.

Terez
05-23-2012, 04:58 AM
I don't think RJ was an assman. All the supergirls have larger-than-average breasts and more-slender-than-average hips. You can tell by the borrowed dresses.

Zombie Sammael
05-23-2012, 05:29 AM
RJ obviously had a very complicated view of ass vs breasts. During the raising ceremony, every AS standing for the Amyrlin has to prove they have breasts. On the other hand, he named his group of male channellers the "ass-ha-man". Obviously his intention here was to state that the male and female channellers had separate goals that were nonetheless embodied in the same form, as it were.

Tomp
05-23-2012, 05:32 AM
Rand is always looking at the sway of Min's hips

just saying.

Yeah Rand looks at the woman he loves and find her attractive.
He does not leer at every woman he meets.

Mat does, more or less.

GonzoTheGreat
05-23-2012, 05:59 AM
He does not leer at every woman he meets.

Mat does, more or less.
So does LTT, of course. Who, according to some, is Rand.

yks 6nnetu hing
05-23-2012, 07:06 AM
Yeah Rand looks at the woman he loves and find her attractive.
He does not leer at every woman he meets.

Mat does, more or less.

lol, believe me, Mat's letchery ways are probably the least among his many, many, and I repeat: many character flaws.

Davian93
05-23-2012, 08:03 AM
lol, believe me, Mat's letchery ways are probably the least among his many, many, and I repeat: many character flaws.

Flaws? He's a 20 something year old guy, this is 100% normal. He just happens to be a breast guy while Rand tends to like a little more junk in the trunk and Perrin likes, um, well skinny big nosed women that verbally abuse him.

yks 6nnetu hing
05-23-2012, 08:10 AM
Flaws? He's a 20 something year old guy, this is 100% normal. He just happens to be a breast guy while Rand tends to like a little more junk in the trunk and Perrin likes, um, well skinny big nosed women that verbally abuse him.

as I said, his letchery ways are probably the least obnoxious bits about him as a character.

Davian93
05-23-2012, 08:12 AM
Yeah Rand looks at the woman he loves and find her attractive.
He does not leer at every woman he meets.

Mat does, more or less.

Rand also thinks its okay to date and sleep with 3 women at the same time...I think on the lechery scale, that ranks up above casually checking out women you meet with a passing glance.

GonzoTheGreat
05-23-2012, 08:45 AM
Rand also thinks its okay to date and sleep with 3 women at the same time...I think on the lechery scale, that ranks up above casually checking out women you meet with a passing glance.
I dunno. Sounds like an interesting research project. Now how to get financing for this?

Heinz
05-23-2012, 08:46 AM
Rand also thinks its okay to date and sleep with 3 women at the same time...I think on the lechery scale, that ranks up above casually checking out women you meet with a passing glance.

I'm not sure I'd call what Mat does 'casually checking out...with a passing glance', but I agree it ranks lower on the scale than bouncing around with 3 women at the same time with serious hopes/intentions with all of them.

WinespringBrother
05-23-2012, 08:54 AM
nothing wrong with this, I find it more suspicious that there is a lot of staring at ankles and ears...

Davian93
05-23-2012, 08:56 AM
I'm not sure I'd call what Mat does 'casually checking out...with a passing glance', but I agree it ranks lower on the scale than bouncing around with 3 women at the same time with serious hopes/intentions with all of them.

How is it not? He meets a female, checks her out and moves on with his life. He's a 21-22 year old guy...this is what 99.9% of heterosexual guys do at that age.

GonzoTheGreat
05-23-2012, 09:01 AM
nothing wrong with this, I find it more suspicious that there is a lot of staring at ankles and ears...
That depends on whatever is considered attractive by a culture. People are weird anyone, and on the topic of sex they often get weird deliberately. Small wonder that results in strange (to us) fetishes.

Davian93
05-23-2012, 09:08 AM
Personally, I'm more disturbed by Nynaeve's ogling of Valan Luca's calves...guess she's a leg-woman.


TITLE: Fires of Heaven
CHAPTER: 34 - A Silver Arrow

The man was certainly handsome- Stop that!-and he did have a shapely calf- What are you doing, looking at his leg?

Though, apparently this sort of behavior is common in Andor and is even practiced by her Queen:


TITLE: Fires of Heaven
CHAPTER: 56 - Glowing Embers

Tallanvor was a handsome man, his hands did look strong, and he had a well-turned calf, but he was young, and she was his queen.

confused at birth
05-23-2012, 12:56 PM
Personally, I'm more disturbed by Nynaeve's ogling of Valan Luca's calves...guess she's a leg-woman.

Well its the only upright you can normally see in public so its all she got to judge them on:p

It will give her a general idea how fit someone is and strong legs would probably be needed with her.


Dont really get the calves part of it but I look at girls legs all the time so this never seemed odd to me:confused:

Khoram
05-23-2012, 01:48 PM
How is it not? He meets a female, checks her out and moves on with his life. He's a 21-22 year old guy...this is what 99.9% of heterosexual guys do at that age.

Speaking as a 21-22 year old guy, it's very much true. But if a woman has nice legs, that's also very... um... well liked. Especially if they are runners. Or just in really good shape.

Davian93
05-23-2012, 02:12 PM
Speaking as a 21-22 year old guy, it's very much true. But if a woman has nice legs, that's also very... um... well liked. Especially if they are runners. Or just in really good shape.

10 years later, that doesnt really change.

FWIW

Heinz
05-23-2012, 02:19 PM
10 years later, that doesnt really change.

FWIW

This is true.

Khoram
05-23-2012, 03:53 PM
10 years later, that doesnt really change.

FWIW

I would certainly hope not!

Tomp
05-23-2012, 03:53 PM
My original point was this.

RJ didn't get that much more fixated on breasts in his writing.
It was the many Mat POVs that drove the number up in KoD.

maleshub
05-23-2012, 06:03 PM
My original point was this.

RJ didn't get that much more fixated on breasts in his writing.
It was the many Mat POVs that drove the number up in KoD.

We have Karede remembering how he liked to stare at Setalle's bossom; We have Thom and Riselle's memorable pillow; We have Olvar and his bossom affection; We have Selucia slapping the soldier that took her horse in the Band's camp; (in TGS), we have Talmanes appreciating Joline's cleavage; etc...

Davian93
05-23-2012, 07:01 PM
We have Karede remembering how he liked to stare at Setalle's bossom; We have Thom and Riselle's memorable pillow; We have Olvar and his bossom affection; We have Selucia slapping the soldier that took her horse in the Band's camp; (in TGS), we have Talmanes appreciating Joline's cleavage; etc...

So, men like breasts in Randland?

I think this requires a Faction.

maleshub
05-23-2012, 07:05 PM
So, men like breasts in Randland?

I think this requires a Faction.

Was trying to give other examples of that Faction so as not to single out Mat and blame him for all the bossomy references and scenes.

Khoram
05-23-2012, 07:27 PM
So, men like breasts in Randland?

I think this requires a Faction.

I don't know. I think it deserves Theory treatment. :rolleyes:

Terez
05-23-2012, 07:33 PM
Frivolous factions are punished, it seems.

Davian93
05-23-2012, 08:32 PM
Frivolous factions are punished, it seems.

There is nothing frivolous about boobys.

http://images.mudfooted.com/blue-footed-booby-dance.jpg

They are, afterall, beautiful creatures.

Khoram
05-23-2012, 08:55 PM
There is nothing frivolous about boobys.

http://images.mudfooted.com/blue-footed-booby-dance.jpg

They are, afterall, beautiful creatures.

Very graceful creatures, they are. *nods head sagely*

codetoast
05-25-2012, 12:47 PM
Ugghh, every girl pov in the wheel of time at least once considers a man's well turned legs. And the way Galad and Gawyn are described by some of them, I think Mat is relatively proper in his observations of women.

Seeker
05-25-2012, 05:19 PM
It's also really a case of descriptive language. Believe it or not, most women fold their arms under their breasts. (I started typing this sentence and one walked around the corner doing just that. I'm sitting in the Starbucks of a book store. All she's doing is looking at books and she's got her arms folded under her breasts.)

And yes... she's hot.

But the point is this. The phrase "standing there with her arms folded under her breasts" creates an immediate mental image that tells you exactly what the woman is thinking without saying one word about. I don't you but I don't just picture the posture but also the expression on her face. The glare.

And Mat is more likely to get that pose from women then most of the other male characters just because he's Mat... So, it's not necessarily a case of RJ having a boob fixation as it is a case of him trying to be descriptive.

That said, this line has always reminded me of Mat.

ANYA:
Men like sports, don't they?

XANDER:
Yes, Men like sports... They eat of the beef and enjoy to look at the bosom. A 1000 years on this Earth and you haven't figured that out?

Davidus Tertius Rex
05-30-2012, 08:06 AM
Perrin likes, um, well skinny big nosed women that verbally abuse him.

Perhaps instead of the sa'sara, Faile should ask Mr Lehrer about a certain tango (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TytGOeiW0aE).

Lupusdeusest
05-30-2012, 08:42 AM
Perhaps instead of the sa'sara, Faile should ask Mr Lehrer about a certain tango (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TytGOeiW0aE).


Better that than the waltz (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kMY61W9tfc).

Res_Ipsa
05-30-2012, 10:12 AM
I am a breast, leg, and thigh man myself but then again I could be just be saying that I like all types of fried chicken.

Zombie Sammael
05-30-2012, 10:15 AM
I am a breast, leg, and thigh man myself but then again I could be just be saying that I like all types of fried chicken.

What about wings?

Res_Ipsa
05-30-2012, 10:19 AM
What about wings?

Ah, but I do not consider the wing a vital part of fried chicken culture. The wing is its own subspecies of culinary delight. I love wings, but do not like breaded wings as I feel it detracts from the sauce that is hot.

Davian93
05-30-2012, 10:26 AM
Ah, but I do not consider the wing a vital part of fried chicken culture. The wing is its own subspecies of culinary delight. I love wings, but do not like breaded wings as I feel it detracts from the sauce that is hot.

http://cdn.9laughs.com/files/2012/02/what-you-did-there-i-see-it-pelican.jpg

Res_Ipsa
05-31-2012, 12:59 PM
Imagine waking up with that thing staring at you. I am not sure what I would do after my heart started beating again.

jana
05-31-2012, 02:37 PM
He did eat 4 entire chickens in Tar Valon. That's a lot of breast meat.

Tomp
05-31-2012, 04:22 PM
He did eat 4 entire chickens in Tar Valon. That's a lot of breast meat.

And licked his fingers. ;)

Maesterbaevern
06-01-2012, 03:09 AM
How is it not? He meets a female, checks her out and moves on with his life. He's a 21-22 year old guy...this is what 99.9% of heterosexual guys do at that age.

I thought that applied to all ages? :eek: :D

newyorkersedai
06-10-2012, 12:30 PM
The phrase "standing there with her arms folded under her breasts" creates an immediate mental image that tells you exactly what the woman is thinking without saying one word about. I don't you but I don't just picture the posture but also the expression on her face. The glare.

And Mat is more likely to get that pose from women then most of the other male characters just because he's Mat...

I'm with Seeker here! Mat angers women, a pose that calls for arms folded or hands on hips. It's also a very easily-understood expression.

Remember also that Min's that rare woman who wears pants! This means that most women in Randland walk around with their hips, et al, covered up. What's visible? Face, hair, and bosom.

Mat is very sexual, and probably objectifies women, but doesn't otherwise disrespect women. That's better than I see in a lot of my fellow men, much less those over 21.

I enjoy looking at women and what they wear. Women's clothes are often so much more versatile than men's. And the female body is a home run of natural design.

But I don't go to strip clubs, and I don't fantasize about what I see because I'm not a scumbag. Just appreciating the view and evaluating fashion.

Lupusdeusest
06-10-2012, 10:28 PM
I'm finding the other side of this hilarious to read (the male side of ogling/viewing).