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View Full Version : Initial thoughts on aDwD


Figbiscuit
07-05-2012, 07:41 AM
Firstly, I haven't finished it yet, so please don't go writing anything here which could constitute a spoiler. Also, I haven't read any of the other threads on the board here or at any of the fan sites yet, for the same reason. But I had to have somewhere to get this off my chest:

THOSE FIRST CHAPTERS ABOUT JON REALLY ANNOYED ME!! We've just had a whole book of Sam travelling to Oldtown, and then he starts this one with Sam back at the Wall again! I realise he wanted to tell the story from Jon's point of view, but really?? I see no reason as to why those first chapters couldn't have been included at the end of Storm of Swords (apart from overall book length).

Also, I'm not sure he did himself any favours by splitting the characters between this and FFC the way he did. I realise he didn't have these characters written at the time that was released, but it does make for swift returns to a POV - maybe it's just me, but I'm finding the characters are popping up a little frequently now. I know the second half of the book apparently takes the story forwards with all though, so I'll hold my breath on this now until I've finished.

SauceyBlueConfetti
07-05-2012, 10:12 AM
I read the first 11 pages after the book release and haven't picked it back up. Maybe I will now, you made me start thinking of it again.

rand
07-05-2012, 01:54 PM
Also, I'm not sure he did himself any favours by splitting the characters between this and FFC the way he did.
I completely agree. His reasoning is that it's supposedly better to "tell the whole story for half the characters than to tell half the story for all the characters" (or something along those lines). Honestly, I don't think anyone would have even noticed we were only getting "half the story for all the characters" if GRRM hadn't made a big deal of it himself.

Figbiscuit
07-06-2012, 04:37 AM
The more I hear about the kinds of things he says about himself and his work, the more and more I think he's a pretentious bag of hot air.

maacaroni
07-06-2012, 05:21 AM
I disagree. GRRM is a great storyteller but he's not the most organised of writers.

Still, he's the best thing in the genre currently! The book does get better, persevere.

utinbaho
07-06-2012, 08:39 AM
blame the editors on this one. they thought GRRM can whip up word after word in a reasonable amount of time. this splitting up of AFFC/DwD really backfired on them.

Figbiscuit
07-07-2012, 01:57 PM
I'm just not convinced that he had enough material for all characters when FFC was released, else why would it have taken so long to release aDwD?

Anyway, not going to spend my time bitching about that, despite it I am enjoying the continuation of the story. I've just finished the first half so looking forward to starting the second.

My only problem at the moment is that I'm finding Dany's story a little hard to follow. It's probably just me not concentrating enough, but the many similar but different character names and all the kerfuffle between Astapori and Meereen and the Yunkai'i and so forth is confusing me. Too impatient to get to the end to read it slowly enough. It will no doubt make more sense when I read it again.

Also I feel Dany is a weaker character in this book. All this 'I am but a young girl' business. She was much stronger in the first novels. I am very interested to see how the multiple suitor plot plays out tho, and I'm also liking the furthering of the Dorne side of things.

GonzoTheGreat
07-08-2012, 03:58 AM
Also I feel Dany is a weaker character in this book. All this 'I am but a young girl' business. She was much stronger in the first novels.
It is a well known fact that close contact with dragons scrambles women's wits.

utinbaho
07-08-2012, 11:09 AM
the problem with dany chapters is that it became just another place to play the game of thrones. you get new characters to play littlefinger, varys and their ilk. with half the wit of them. if dany landed on westeros by book 3, those chapters would be easier. too many characters too little material to work with.

Figbiscuit
07-09-2012, 07:57 AM
Yep, all the interesting things which I thought were going to happen there have been swiftly wiped out now with Dany getting married and then disappearing off on the back of her dragon.

Also, I forgot to say before that I did quite like the 'Reek' character, I thought it was good comeuppance. I have also been incredibly slow at realising who the singer at Winterfell was, shame on me. They have just dived over the wall, so I shall be interested to see what happens there.

Figbiscuit
07-11-2012, 05:11 AM
I've finished it. Obviously this post will contain spoilers.

I feel kind of weird about it. Although I enjoyed it, I see what people mean about the story not feeling like it went anywhere. Dany's whole storyline seemed a little pointless to be honest, I think it could have been brought to that point without taking a whole book to do it. Also I was disappointed with all the storylines which looked as if they were going to converge on her, only to end up going their own way. In fact, I'd go as far as to say there was too much Dany, and the whole slavers bay business shouldn't have even happened. It was BORING! Getting Tyrion and Mormont taken for slaves was ridiculous to start with, even before Dany buggered off on the dragon and ended up at the feet of a Khalasar.

I'm starting to get a little fed up with him killing everyone off now. It's been novel, for the first four books, to have an author who was brave enough to discard characters with no shame, but I seem to be losing interest in forming attachments to any of the new characters because they're probably going to die anyway (and to be fair, a lot of them have).

The only characters with any real interest to them IMO now are Arya, Sam, Bran, Jon & Jamie. Sam we saw nothing of in this book (and to be honest, the whole sending him off to be a maester things was a bit odd anyway, that takes YEARS). I refuse to believe Jon is dead, GRRM has played the apparently dead at the end of a chapter card too many times, and frankly, if he's killed Jon off then I think I'm just going to give up on it all completely. He's one of the few people that actually seems to be doing anything even remotely useful. I would have liked to have seen more of Bran's story - there were a lot of characters I would have liked to have seen more of, even Sansa and the Vale plotline, which I enjoy for Littlefingers machinations.

I quite enjoyed what had happened to Theon, I like how weak he had become, he deserves it for being a nasty piece of work. Also, am I reading between the lines correctly - has he had his bits chopped off? You know which bit I mean...

Anyway I'm losing structure and forme to my thoughts and feel like I'm rambling, so I will leave this here for now, and I can finally go and read what everyone else thought about it all. I don't want to sound like I'm nothing but negative, the book itself was still well written, but I do feel a lot of it was pointless, and I don't see how GRRM can wrap it up in one more book. How disappointing, cos I was determined to be all positive about it, and nay say all the haters, haha.

Terez
07-11-2012, 05:13 AM
Yeah, I think I am going to wait to buy the next one until I can get someone to confirm to me that Jon is still alive. I imagine I'm not the only one.

Davian93
07-14-2012, 07:21 PM
Yeah, I think I am going to wait to buy the next one until I can get someone to confirm to me that Jon is still alive. I imagine I'm not the only one.

I will bet you one billion, quadrillion zillion dollars that Jon is either still alive or will be brought back by the Red Priestess in short order.

Res_Ipsa
07-15-2012, 01:29 AM
I am waiting until the new one is available at my library this go around.

Figbiscuit
07-17-2012, 08:08 AM
I have no doubt I'll buy it, I am totally incapable of not finishing a series as far as I possibly can, but I won't be rushing out and buying the hardback the minute it appears in the shops.

Also, 2017?? Really?? That's a joke. The only time we had to wait for a WoT book for that long was KoD when RJ was poorly and then after he passed away :(

Anaiya Sedai
07-17-2012, 09:25 AM
2017?! Bah.
although there will be amol soon and another stormlight archive book next year - I bet brandon finishes that series before we get to see more from grrm on the book front.

I have to say I agree that the whole book felt like it didn't really go anywhere.. and when varys turned up at the end I got excited then realises it was the end.
interesting characters for me: tyrion, arya, Jon and sam. are we going to see more of Catlyn-the-water-logged-walking-corpse?
I'm a bit bored with bran. and dany.
and all the fat guys.

Davian93
07-17-2012, 09:38 AM
Spoilers....obviously






Bran's journey was the most agonizingly bad subplot of the last couple books. I was actually wishing that Theon had really killed him off...would have saved us all I think.

So Bran's a tree now...super.

Dany's storyline was almost as bad...especially with the completely needless Dorne subplot added in. We waste how many pages and chapters on getting him there all so he can burn to death in a pointless attempt to steal a dragon? Same with Mormont/Tyrion becoming slaves.


I've said it before but I really think GRRM has more fun just telling little vignettes in his universe than actually advancing his plot. He's basically playing with his little figurines rather than having a coherent idea of where he's actually taking the storyline. That's great for his imagination but its terrible for a book series.

Also, is that 2017 date official from anywhere or is it just an estimate from us? I dont doubt its real as he apparently hasnt even started work on Winds yet despite it being a full year after Dance came out.

What a lazy POS.

Terez
07-17-2012, 10:17 AM
He has started work on Winds; excerpts have already been released. But GRRM has always said don't believe a release date until he's actually done with the book and tells us so.

Davian93
07-17-2012, 10:18 AM
He has started work on Winds; excerpts have already been released. But GRRM has always said don't believe a release date until he's actually done with the book and tells us so.

Those are from the chapters he couldn't fit in Dance IIRC. He hasnt really done much beyond that from all reports.

Figbiscuit
07-17-2012, 01:21 PM
Spoilers....obviously

Bran's journey was the most agonizingly bad subplot of the last couple books. I was actually wishing that Theon had really killed him off...would have saved us all I think.

So Bran's a tree now...super.

Dany's storyline was almost as bad...especially with the completely needless Dorne subplot added in. We waste how many pages and chapters on getting him there all so he can burn to death in a pointless attempt to steal a dragon? Same with Mormont/Tyrion becoming slaves.


I've said it before but I really think GRRM has more fun just telling little vignettes in his universe than actually advancing his plot. He's basically playing with his little figurines rather than having a coherent idea of where he's actually taking the storyline. That's great for his imagination but its terrible for a book series.

Also, is that 2017 date official from anywhere or is it just an estimate from us? I dont doubt its real as he apparently hasnt even started work on Winds yet despite it being a full year after Dance came out.

What a lazy POS.

I think you just summed up everything I found wrong with Dany's plot line in two sentences.

And I've only got the 2017 release date from (I think) your good self talking on here, I haven't gone searching for any other information online.

2017?! Bah.
although there will be amol soon and another stormlight archive book next year - I bet brandon finishes that series before we get to see more from grrm on the book front.

I have to say I agree that the whole book felt like it didn't really go anywhere.. and when varys turned up at the end I got excited then realises it was the end.
interesting characters for me: tyrion, arya, Jon and sam. are we going to see more of Catlyn-the-water-logged-walking-corpse?
I'm a bit bored with bran. and dany.
and all the fat guys.

I had forgotten that once aMoL is out it releases me to be able to read Brandon Sanderson. I hope I don't come to regret that decision. Not because I think I may not enjoy it, only that I've tried really hard not speculate to myself who wrote which parts for the end of WoT. Or at least, any bits that weren't immediately obvious. Because I am a sad case :rolleyes:

Anaiya Sedai
07-17-2012, 05:09 PM
I actually didn't speculate at all.. but I did massively enjoy way of kings. especially towards the end it got REALLY good.

oh yes the dorne sub plot. booring. I liked dany. then she married hizdar. and had a fling with whatshisnameagain.. just didn't seem quite right. even tyrions story arc got a touch boring with the whole slave thing. penny is just annoying. or maybe that's just Roy dotrice and his weird accents...

Davian93
07-17-2012, 05:15 PM
I like Kings alot and I think Brandon is doing himself a huge disservice by putting off the 2nd volume to finish aMoL. He honestly should have put his own series as the first priority there as he might lose interest in his series due to the huge time lapse between the initial books.

rand
07-17-2012, 11:14 PM
I'm wondering how the tv show will affect the series. I haven't had time to watch it personally, but I've heard it's successful. Presumably this would be incentive to finish the book series before the show comes to an abrupt end with no continuation in sight?

Then again, GRRM doesn't seem to care much about the readers of his books, so upsetting millions of viewers of his show shouldn't bother him too much.

Just as a side note, I personally love aSoIaF. It's the author I don't like (odd and maybe disrespectful as that may be), and occasionally where he takes the stories. Personally I think the characters are the best-written of any fantasy series. It's just the fact that they don't do anything, and Martin spends 5+ years deciding exactly how they shouldn't do anything, that upsets me.

Figbiscuit
07-18-2012, 07:02 AM
I'm wondering how the tv show will affect the series. I haven't had time to watch it personally, but I've heard it's successful. Presumably this would be incentive to finish the book series before the show comes to an abrupt end with no continuation in sight?

You would think so, wouldn't you. That's why I was a bit baffled when they began adapting it, you would think they would choose something which was, if not finished, then certainly nearly finished. Unless he's managed to convince them that it IS nearly finished.


Just as a side note, I personally love aSoIaF. It's the author I don't like (odd and maybe disrespectful as that may be), and occasionally where he takes the stories. Personally I think the characters are the best-written of any fantasy series. It's just the fact that they don't do anything, and Martin spends 5+ years deciding exactly how they shouldn't do anything, that upsets me.

Agreed.

Terez
07-18-2012, 07:41 AM
I'm wondering how the tv show will affect the series. I haven't had time to watch it personally, but I've heard it's successful. Presumably this would be incentive to finish the book series before the show comes to an abrupt end with no continuation in sight?
From what we've been told the producers have enough of the ending that they can finish the story with or without the books. Personally, I expect the show to pass up the books, and if they try to split up each book into two seasons like they're doing next season (in an attempt to give GRRM more time), then I expect casting crises in the meantime.

Davian93
07-18-2012, 10:41 AM
From what we've been told the producers have enough of the ending that they can finish the story with or without the books. Personally, I expect the show to pass up the books, and if they try to split up each book into two seasons like they're doing next season (in an attempt to give GRRM more time), then I expect casting crises in the meantime.

The show is already diverging from the books pretty significantly in a lot of ways...and GRRM has a long history as a screenwriter. Hell, at this rate, he might just not even bother finishing the books and just say "You want to know how it ends, go watch Seasons 6 & 7 on HBO" and then he'll wander off to the latest ComicCon and paint miniatures or something. I hear another copy of Wild Cards is coming out too for him to edit and did you hear that the Jets and Giants are going to training camp soon?

Figbiscuit
07-24-2012, 07:40 AM
The show is already diverging from the books pretty significantly in a lot of ways...and GRRM has a long history as a screenwriter. Hell, at this rate, he might just not even bother finishing the books and just say "You want to know how it ends, go watch Seasons 6 & 7 on HBO" and then he'll wander off to the latest ComicCon and paint miniatures or something. I hear another copy of Wild Cards is coming out too for him to edit and did you hear that the Jets and Giants are going to training camp soon?

Well that would be supremely crap. Way to upset ALL your fans.

Terez
07-24-2012, 01:38 PM
People keep saying the show is 'veering off' from the books as if it's on some trajectory of no return. There are changes, but those changes aren't carrying the story away from the important stuff. I'm really digging the show, in some ways more than the books. In some ways not as much. Most of the changes have been incidental; only a few really bothered me.

1Powerslave
07-24-2012, 01:45 PM
What Dav said. What Figbuscuit said, and others. Martin has been milking his series for a long time. I think he has a writer's block too.

Btw. Jon's not dead. But there is a great risk he the way he will be ressurected will make him less cool. Like if he were to shapeshiftjump to someone elses body and his own body would die. Like if he were to become a slave of the Red Priestess or something. Lots of stupid ways to play this out.

Davian93
07-24-2012, 02:51 PM
People keep saying the show is 'veering off' from the books as if it's on some trajectory of no return. There are changes, but those changes aren't carrying the story away from the important stuff. I'm really digging the show, in some ways more than the books. In some ways not as much. Most of the changes have been incidental; only a few really bothered me.

So, will Robb's GF/Wifey Talisa from Volantis end up as the one who betrays him on Lannister's orders? Seems a little bit more far-stretched than the setup that leads to the Red Wedding in the books.

Terez
07-24-2012, 03:59 PM
Well, we don't know yet. It's not necessarily far-fetched; I can think of a few explanations. But even if she doesn't betray him at all, I'll be happy; her betrayal wasn't necessary for the outcome.

Davian93
07-24-2012, 04:28 PM
Well, we don't know yet. It's not necessarily far-fetched; I can think of a few explanations. But even if she doesn't betray him at all, I'll be happy; her betrayal wasn't necessary for the outcome.

Well, her family being Lannister bannerman down on their luck was a far more likely explanation than what they'll come up with...IMHO.

Terez
07-24-2012, 05:31 PM
Anyone who knows they are together now can betray that to the Freys.

Cortar
07-25-2012, 02:03 AM
People keep saying the show is 'veering off' from the books as if it's on some trajectory of no return. There are changes, but those changes aren't carrying the story away from the important stuff. I'm really digging the show, in some ways more than the books. In some ways not as much. Most of the changes have been incidental; only a few really bothered me.

Well those people are silly, I have read the books a while back and I haven't seen anything in the TV show that even sticks out as different to me. (well except for Tyrion's wounds in B2)

So I consider that a job well done on GRRM's part!

Davian93
07-25-2012, 07:46 AM
Well those people are silly, I have read the books a while back and I haven't seen anything in the TV show that even sticks out as different to me. (well except for Tyrion's wounds in B2)

So I consider that a job well done on GRRM's part!

Well, for starters:

1. Robb marrying Volantis nurse Talisa instead of Jeyne Westering.
2. The Iron Islanders braining Theon instead of him being taken by Reek/Bastard of Bolton.
3. The elimination of fairly major secondary characters like the Blackfish, Edmure Tully, the Reed children, etc.

Right now, it looks as if the Red Wedding isn't going to happen...or at least it will be vastly different. There's also all the modifications they've done to Dany's storyline but she's so boring either way (both in the show and in the books) it doesnt really offend me.

Sarevok
07-25-2012, 09:33 AM
Well, for starters:

1. Robb marrying Volantis nurse Talisa instead of Jeyne Westering.
2. The Iron Islanders braining Theon instead of him being taken by Reek/Bastard of Bolton.
3. The elimination of fairly major secondary characters like the Blackfish, Edmure Tully, the Reed children, etc.


1.Probably done so it wouldn't seem so out-of-the-blue when he goes off and marries someone we've only known a short while. In the books, that "short while" is probably 100 or 200 pages, but that would translate to about 1 episode...
2. It puts him in the perfect place to wake up in a dungeon somewhere to be turned into Reek. :)
3. The Blackfish and the Reed children are in the cast for the next season. Nu idea about Edmure.

Like you said, Dany is boring anyway, and it seems even GRRM sometimes has trouble thinking of new ways to keep occupied that I can't really blame HBO for trying to keep het storyline at least somewhat exiting.

Davian93
07-25-2012, 09:37 AM
I will laugh my arse off if Talisa ends up being a Lannister spy the entire time. That would be absolutely hilarious.

Cortar
07-25-2012, 03:59 PM
Well, for starters:

1. Robb marrying Volantis nurse Talisa instead of Jeyne Westering.
2. The Iron Islanders braining Theon instead of him being taken by Reek/Bastard of Bolton.
3. The elimination of fairly major secondary characters like the Blackfish, Edmure Tully, the Reed children, etc.

Right now, it looks as if the Red Wedding isn't going to happen...or at least it will be vastly different. There's also all the modifications they've done to Dany's storyline but she's so boring either way (both in the show and in the books) it doesnt really offend me.

???? Huh, the girl is just slightly different, though he still broke his agreement with the Fey, so I don't see why the Red Wedding can't happen.

I admit its been a while, but I thought this was how it happened, his guys betrayed him and turned him over to the Boltons...

Im pretty sure they are going to introduce the Reeds later, and as for the Tullys, idk

SauceyBlueConfetti
07-25-2012, 08:48 PM
/hijack

According to Entertainment Weekly:

Nathan Fillion to GRRM at ComicCon: "Shouldn't you be writing?"

/hijack done


/2ndhijack

Firefly reunion special in October! SQUEEE!!

/2ndhijack done

Davian93
07-25-2012, 09:10 PM
/hijack

According to Entertainment Weekly:

Nathan Fillion to GRRM at ComicCon: "Shouldn't you be writing?"

/hijack done


/2ndhijack

Firefly reunion special in October! SQUEEE!!

/2ndhijack done

Han Solo ripping GRRM a new one...LOVE IT!

http://www.blindfiveyearold.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/misattributed-quote-meme.jpg

1Powerslave
07-29-2012, 03:51 PM
Nathan Fillion to GRRM at ComicCon: "Shouldn't you be writing?"[/B]

:D