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The Unreasoner
08-03-2012, 03:19 AM
IDK if this belongs here or not, but I thought it would be fun. Much of TL discussions fall into the groups of Idrien-esque (linear, pragmatic, deduction) or Herid-esque (open, theoretical, induction). But few operate in what I would call a Toverian fashion, something I will define here as 'hardcore theorizing with a lighthearted attitude, always regarding trivial matters.'

Very immediate results driven, less concerned with specific evidence or future applications.

Anyway, the idea of the thread is quite simple: post a simple theory regarding a trivial matter and a little blurb to back it up.

I'll start:

THEORY:
Peaches became poisonous during the Breaking of the World; the result of one or more mad saidin-wielding geneticists mutating the DNA's structure.

In less than 3000 years, peaches began to produce toxic compounds in the flesh as well as in the pit (though, thanks to Nynaeve, we know the concentrations are different). Given a lack of time and evolutionary motive, it seems unlikely that peaches did this on their own.

Therefore, some mutagenic event on a massive scale corrupted the peach plant directly. And since populations are generally smaller in times of crisis, it is entirely conceivable that one or more madmen developed an obsessive-compulsive behavior to crudely mutate peaches. The surprise of the Forsaken and the certainties of Nynaeve set a rough timeframe, and the single most likely event to mutate the peach population during this period is naturally the Breaking.

GonzoTheGreat
08-03-2012, 03:54 AM
Alternative theory: it was a cunning plot by the first Black Ajah. It succeeded, but because they all liked peaches, they ate their own produce and died. Which is why it took so long for Ishamael to gather the followers he needed to destroy the Compact of the Ten Nations.

Added evidence:
We have never seen a mad male channeler do anything remotely similar. But we do know that Aginor had research assistants, and it is entirely likely that some of them survived for a while after the Cleansing and passed on their expertise, as well as their allegiance.

The Unreasoner
08-03-2012, 03:24 PM
Alternative theory: it was a cunning plot by the first Black Ajah
I fail to see a motive. And eating their own peaches that they just poisoned? That's stupid even for AS, and straight up retarded for AoL AS.
We have never seen a mad male channeler do anything remotely similar.
We have not seen many mad male channelers at all.
But we do know that Aginor had research assistants, and it is entirely likely that some of them survived for a while after the Cleansing and passed on their expertise, as well as their allegiance.

I don't see why some of those assistants couldn't be men. And since Aginor wasn't always a servant of the DO (or the only decent genetic engineer) it stands to reason that there were male genetic engineers on both sides. Once they went mad (even among the FotD, as Taint protection is rare), motive becomes nonsensical, but opportunity and ability remain.

(And, you did mean Tainting, right?)

Anyway, this thread is more for posting your own frivolous theories for your own issues. Although I suppose competing theories are OK in a technical sense.

GonzoTheGreat
08-04-2012, 04:00 AM
(And, you did mean Tainting, right?)
There's a difference? :confused:
Anyway, this thread is more for posting your own frivolous theories for your own issues. Although I suppose competing theories are OK in a technical sense.
I don't have all that many suitable ideas lying around right now. And the ones that I do have are intended for another platform, and aren't sufficiently well worked out to be good enough yet, either.

Frenzy
08-07-2012, 12:49 AM
it could be that cyanide is a naturally-occurring chemical in peaches (almonds too), and the scientist in RJ just amplified it to poisonous in his stories for the hell of it.

Or, considering where RJ was from, it could be a dig at his southern neighbors.

/Idrian

Tomp
08-07-2012, 05:35 AM
On the peach thing.
The creator messed up a little.
When the creator was making it impossible for anyone but the dragon to draw Callandor out of the stone, he also made it deadly for anyone else to reach the stone (of a peach).

Zombie Sammael
08-07-2012, 05:55 AM
I've always thought it must just have been because RJ didn't like peaches.

Lupusdeusest
08-07-2012, 06:35 AM
I've the temptation to swing the other way (sorry honey) and go full Felix along the lines of the peach is actually a metaphor for the land and the Dragon Soul. Until the DS reaches full enlightenment, his peach is poisoned.

Zombie Sammael
08-07-2012, 08:14 AM
I've the temptation to swing the other way (sorry honey) and go full Felix along the lines of the peach is actually a metaphor for the land and the Dragon Soul. Until the DS reaches full enlightenment, his peach is poisoned.

That's actually not a bad idea. I want an essay on peaches as a metaphor in WOT on my desk for Monday morning.

yks 6nnetu hing
08-07-2012, 08:56 AM
ok, loony trivial theory:

Paaran Disen, which sounds a lot like paradise (and all sanity tells me this was a city that got the name Paradise but what was there before? Was it built on an empty spot or did it evolve from an already existing city?), and was the "crown jewel of all cities" was actually Paris. It contained the Hall of the Servants, a socialist notion in and of itself, and was a glittering gem of skyscrapers, wonderful architecture, culture and sophistication. It was completely destroyed, though fragments of elstone, which is metnioned in the description of the Hall of Servants, seem to have made their way into Tar Valon somehow. Now, elstone is described as glowing white which makes me think of marble, except marble is a well known building material in Randland and as elstone is decribed, it's clearly not marble. So, I'm thinking maybe some luminescent building material. And, voila! look at this (http://iopscience.iop.org/0957-4484/20/40/405601;jsessionid=49425F898C8C681444A4D836FEB651BE .c3), from the University of Nantes, France. Now, that's nanotechnology but who says it can't be scaled up to actual buildings, creating ferro-magnetic luminescence as a design element?

GonzoTheGreat
08-07-2012, 09:25 AM
So Ishamael was a French nihilist philosopher, and LTT, who beat him at the gates of Paris, was of course Bismarck. Interesting theory, that.

SauceyBlueConfetti
08-07-2012, 10:16 AM
On the peach thing.


I recall reading Mary Stewart's The Crystal Cave (1st of her Merlin trilogy, good tale) and a character was killed by eating a poisoned peach, so I always wondered if it was EASY to add poison to the fruit, or if something in the peach was nasty to begin with.

Anywho...years later, reading WoT and the peach thing comes up so I researched it a little. Peach pits have a bit of cyanide in them. Can be lethal to little ones if they actually bite through the hard shell.

See the wiki also: PEACHES ! (http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/Peaches)



Allergies to peaches are pretty common too.

GonzoTheGreat
08-07-2012, 10:37 AM
Allergies to peaches are pretty common too.
Ah, so now it is obvious. Nothing at all about the peaches changed during or after the Breaking. It is just simply the case that everyone without a peach allergy died, so that now all surviving humans have inherited this peach allergy.

Which of course raises the next questions:
Are peaches dangerous for Ogier?
And how about Trollocs?

The Unreasoner
08-07-2012, 10:43 AM
There's a difference?
Either there is or that's an Aran'gar joke that went way over my head.
it could be that cyanide is a naturally-occurring chemical in peaches (almonds too), and the scientist in RJ just amplified it to poisonous in his stories for the hell of it.

Or, considering where RJ was from, it could be a dig at his southern neighbors.

/Idrian
...thanks, Headmistress...
http://media.prefixmag.com/site_media/uploads/images/post/-/-/buzz_jpg_200x255_q85.jpg
On the peach thing.
The creator messed up a little.
When the creator was making it impossible for anyone but the dragon to draw Callandor out of the stone, he also made it deadly for anyone else to reach the stone (of a peach).
I love this idea. It makes one wonder what sort of underlying metaphysical structure would make such a bizarre error possible. Are peach pits indistinguishable from a specific man-made superfortress (as far as the Wheel is concerned)?

Also, is Callandor indistinguishable from cyanide?

But, this is Herid Fel territory, so let's get back on track.
ok, loony trivial theory:

Paaran Disen, which sounds a lot like paradise (and all sanity tells me this was a city that got the name Paradise but what was there before? Was it built on an empty spot or did it evolve from an already existing city?), and was the "crown jewel of all cities" was actually Paris. It contained the Hall of the Servants, a socialist notion in and of itself, and was a glittering gem of skyscrapers, wonderful architecture, culture and sophistication. It was completely destroyed, though fragments of elstone, which is metnioned in the description of the Hall of Servants, seem to have made their way into Tar Valon somehow. Now, elstone is described as glowing white which makes me think of marble, except marble is a well known building material in Randland and as elstone is decribed, it's clearly not marble. So, I'm thinking maybe some luminescent building material. And, voila! look at this (http://iopscience.iop.org/0957-4484/20/40/405601;jsessionid=49425F898C8C681444A4D836FEB651BE .c3), from the University of Nantes, France. Now, that's nanotechnology but who says it can't be scaled up to actual buildings, creating ferro-magnetic luminescence as a design element?
Is Elstone what Whitebridge is made of?

SauceyBlueConfetti
08-07-2012, 10:51 AM
It is just simply the case that everyone without a peach allergy died, so that now all surviving humans have inherited this peach allergy.

Which of course raises the next questions:
Are peaches dangerous for Ogier?
And how about Trollocs?

I dub this the Culled Peach Theory. We should work it all out and add it to the Loony contest at the next JordanCon.

GonzoTheGreat
08-07-2012, 11:23 AM
I dub this the Culled Peach Theory. We should work it all out and add it to the Loony contest at the next JordanCon.
And have it presented by some official peachologists.

Marie Curie 7
08-07-2012, 10:59 PM
it could be that cyanide is a naturally-occurring chemical in peaches (almonds too), and the scientist in RJ just amplified it to poisonous in his stories for the hell of it.

Or, considering where RJ was from, it could be a dig at his southern neighbors.

/Idrian

Indeed. It even could be that RJ sort of did in reverse to peaches in the world of WoT what was done to almonds in our world...

Interview: Oct 5th, 2005
Robert Jordan's Blog: YET ANOTHER, IT SEEMS (http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=213#4)

For Child of Lir, peaches being poisonous in the world of tWoT is one of the things I did to make the world different. Though peach pits do contain small amounts of cyanide, which was once manufactured through processing peach pits. Several other fruits with pits, such as apricots, also have trace amounts of cyanide in the pits. And almonds may be the first genetically engineered plant since humans bred the deadly, to humans, cyanide levels out of them to make them edible for people.

Lupusdeusest
08-08-2012, 07:25 AM
That's actually not a bad idea. I want an essay on peaches as a metaphor in WOT on my desk for Monday morning.

I assure you something will be there. You may or may not call it an essay.