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View Full Version : Callandor and Wards


justin9e
08-06-2012, 12:52 PM
Hey so i was just reading and came across the part where Rand sent Narishma to fetch Callandor, when Narishma returned he claimed that Rand did not tell him of all the traps around Callandor and he nearly killed him, (that's also why hes late). Rand replies that that's impossible, why would he want to kill his own man (or something like that). and they just shrug it off for now. So i am wondering do they ever address this later on? if not do you guys think it was one of the forsaken laying a trap for rand?

Terez
08-06-2012, 01:08 PM
It's not addressed later that we know of, but we have been known to miss things, so be on the lookout. I theorized at one point that Moridin was able to do something to it because of his link with Rand, but the wards don't appear to have been keyed to Rand so that doesn't really make sense. And all that was to explain how the Aelfinn doorway was destroyed by the time TOM came around; I thought maybe Moridin had rescued Cyndane and escaped via the Stone, destroying the doorway behind him. But I'm not so sure that makes sense either. It could have been done with gateways, but why tf wouldn't Mesaana think of that? An inconsistency for which RJ must be blamed. In other words, it's not good theory territory because of those issues, and because it seems out of character for Moridin to risk himself in such a mission.

The Unreasoner
08-06-2012, 02:39 PM
Hey so i was just reading and came across the part where Rand sent Narishma to fetch Callandor, when Narishma returned he claimed that Rand did not tell him of all the traps around Callandor and he nearly killed him, (that's also why hes late). Rand replies that that's impossible, why would he want to kill his own man (or something like that). and they just shrug it off for now. So i am wondering do they ever address this later on? if not do you guys think it was one of the forsaken laying a trap for rand?
Well, while Terez has her theory, others propose that a Forsaken simply snuck into the Heart and threw some more inverted traps around Callandor. Their reasoning is simple enough: if they can't have it, deny Rand its use. Probably Sammael or Demandred, imho. Everyone and their mother knew Rand apparently abandoned Callandor, and for someone who sees people as expendable, it's easy enough to test the nature and limit of the wards.

Terez
08-06-2012, 02:58 PM
Well, while Terez has her theory, others propose that a Forsaken simply snuck into the Heart and threw some more inverted traps around Callandor.
Problem with that is that most such wards we've seen respond to the Power being channeled except in the prescribed way.

The Unreasoner
08-06-2012, 03:06 PM
Problem with that is that most such wards we've seen respond to the Power being channeled except in the prescribed way.
As I said: they could test the limits of the ward. If they threw wards up just outside Rand's (or even well outside), that would explain the scenario adequately.

Terez
08-06-2012, 03:25 PM
Testing the wards risks triggering the ward.

Jasin Natael
08-06-2012, 03:38 PM
Well, Callandor's traps didn't respond to Moiraine weaving balefire in the room, or Be'lal and Rand's swords, or Egwene directly probing Callandor with saidar in TDR. Or Rand fighting Ishamael in the same room. And who says the forsaken are wholly opposed to all risk? Taim could order an Asha'man to do it. Maybe the Forsaken have some knowledge of what wards were usually woven to protect powerful ter'angreal in the Age of Legends?

This had never occurred to me before, but it strikes me instantly as being a very clever move if true.

Terez
08-06-2012, 03:41 PM
Well, Callandor's traps didn't respond to Moiraine weaving balefire in the room
That ward was keyed to Rand's touch.

The Unreasoner
08-06-2012, 03:58 PM
Testing the wards risks triggering the ward.
So? Let it trigger. The Forsaken generally don't care about risking their people. As far as they're concerned, worst case scenario is that Callandor is destroyed. Which still denies it to Rand. All they need to know is how far out they need to begin weaving the new ward. That only seems to require one test.
Well, Callandor's traps didn't respond to Moiraine weaving balefire in the room, or Be'lal and Rand's swords, or Egwene directly probing Callandor with saidar in TDR. Or Rand fighting Ishamael in the same room.
This was a different ward.
And who says the forsaken are wholly opposed to all risk? Taim could order an Asha'man to do it. Maybe the Forsaken have some knowledge of what wards were usually woven to protect powerful ter'angreal in the Age of Legends?

This had never occurred to me before, but it strikes me instantly as being a very clever move if true.
This is good. Asha'man could be more convenient than BA, given the lack of real supervision (and questionable supervisors). And knowing something about wards in theory may let a person deduce the probable location of the wards in practice. As Lanfear tells us: she doesn't need to see a weave in order to mess with it.

Bill Door
08-06-2012, 04:37 PM
So? Let it trigger. The Forsaken generally don't care about risking their people. As far as they're concerned, worst case scenario is that Callandor is destroyed. Which still denies it to Rand. All they need to know is how far out they need to begin weaving the new ward. That only seems to require one test.

The Forsaken would never have risked destroying Callandor, they each saw it as a tool they could use to gain more power. Well, the male ones did at least and they were the ones most likely to have done anything to it. Also, while they didn't care about risking their people, they also wouldn't want one of their people to actually get the sword. They'd be too concerned that their follower would seize the chance to keep it for themselves, and use it against the Forsaken.

While it may have been in the shadow's best interests to destroy Callandor, the Forsaken were always too concerned about looking after themselves to think that way.

The Unreasoner
08-06-2012, 06:38 PM
I think you misunderstood. And anyway, the odds of destruction (as far as the Forsaken know) are slim, especially if they project their own selfishness onto Rand. And if they think it's out of reach anyway, that might lower their inhibitions enough to risk damaging it. Plus, there might have been some sort of Diffie-hellman thing going on, a backdoor way to get Callandor if Narishma wasn't so awesome.

As for trusting an underling: Compulsion comes to mind.

Jasin Natael
08-07-2012, 02:59 PM
Doesn't Rand state in TSR that he reset the original traps rather than creating new ones?

And they're not sending their people to take the sword, just weave a few extra traps for whenever someone comes to get it.

Terez
08-07-2012, 03:24 PM
Doesn't Rand state in TSR that he reset the original traps rather than creating new ones?
No.

Boli
08-13-2012, 03:58 AM
Personally I think it is foreshadowing of Rand's ever-increasing madness. I mean if you have a voice in your head shouting "kill them all!" every time you see an asha'man there may just be some part of Rand's subconcious which "forgot" to tell the whole part of how to retrive the sword.