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NobleHam
08-21-2012, 05:46 PM
Well, I don't know if this merits a thread of its own but there's not an active Androl thread right now. I've searched around and don't think anyone has mentioned this before... It seems pretty likely to me that Androl is Andric, the former King of Tarabon. He was presumed dead, but no one saw him die. It would make sense. Androl is from Tarabon, middle-aged, very well traveled and reluctant to reveal much about his past. Even if this is the case, it may not matter, but I thought it was worth mentioning.

Weiramon
08-21-2012, 06:48 PM
Burn my soul, young Felix must hear of this.

The Unreasoner
08-21-2012, 07:33 PM
I like it. Why not?

Terez
08-21-2012, 07:38 PM
I like it. Why not?
For starters, because he thinks it's odd that the other men look up to him as a leader.

NobleHam
08-21-2012, 07:46 PM
That's true, but it could just be that losing his throne, being used by Whitecloaks and crushed by the Seanchan, made him feel like an inadequate leader so it makes him feel weird that people would follow him now.

This is far from a solid theory, but I think Androl is too guarded about his past for him not to be someone significant.

The Unreasoner
08-21-2012, 08:02 PM
For starters, because he thinks it's odd that the other men look up to him as a leader.
Okay Negative Nelly. I like it. Do I think it will pan out? No. But I can still like it.

And your objection is ridiculous. He may doubt his track record, or find it an odd coincidence. Or he might have always questioned his right to his inherited powers, and be surprised that he really is a born leader.

It's not like we haven't seen this theme before.

Ieyasu
08-21-2012, 08:36 PM
Well, I don't know if this merits a thread of its own but there's not an active Androl thread right now. I've searched around and don't think anyone has mentioned this before... It seems pretty likely to me that Androl is Andric, the former King of Tarabon. He was presumed dead, but no one saw him die. It would make sense. Androl is from Tarabon, middle-aged, very well traveled and reluctant to reveal much about his past. Even if this is the case, it may not matter, but I thought it was worth mentioning.

I think Androl is Androl. A dude who's widely traveled interests has spilled over to his talent for gateways...

I am more concerned with Emarin and the theories around his identity.

Mostly I have a curiosity with Nalaam. I think there is quite a bit of truth in his exaggerated bragging. For instance, I think his father might have actually been trained on a two-rivers bow in Illian (by Tam.) I am also curious about his gibberish language. It strikes me as odd that Jain used expressions and a language that Mat did not recognize. We know it was not the old tongue that Nalaam used...I wonder if both Jain and Nalaam are speaking the same strange tongue...I suspect it might be Trolloc...

Terez
08-21-2012, 08:53 PM
I think Androl is Androl. A dude who's widely traveled interests has spilled over to his talent for gateways...

I am more concerned with Emarin and the theories around his identity.
There is only one theory: he's Algarin, who has taken the name of his brother Emarin, who was taken to Tar Valon to be gentled by Cadsuane.

Mostly I have a curiosity with Nalaam. I think there is quite a bit of truth in his exaggerated bragging.
That is the general consensus, but it's difficult to theorize about beyond the Tam bit.

NobleHam
08-22-2012, 12:37 AM
I think Androl is Androl. A dude who's widely traveled interests has spilled over to his talent for gateways...

I am more concerned with Emarin and the theories around his identity.

Mostly I have a curiosity with Nalaam. I think there is quite a bit of truth in his exaggerated bragging. For instance, I think his father might have actually been trained on a two-rivers bow in Illian (by Tam.) I am also curious about his gibberish language. It strikes me as odd that Jain used expressions and a language that Mat did not recognize. We know it was not the old tongue that Nalaam used...I wonder if both Jain and Nalaam are speaking the same strange tongue...I suspect it might be Trolloc...

You're probably right that Androl is just Androl, but then why does he seem hesitant to reveal much about his past, and why does Emarin(Algarin) seem suspicious/curious about him? I guess I'd like to see him have a more significant history, but I'll admit there's very little evidence to back it up.

As for Nalaam, I think he's mostly just a braggart. The bit about his father saving a Two Rivers man in Illian may be true and refer to Tam, but I think that's just a bit of "living world" filler and not something important. I didn't get the impression from the way that chapter was written that Nalaam was meant to be anything more than what he appeared, a young boastful man with a bit of taint-madness. As for his language, it did not seem phonetically similar to what little Trolloc we've seen to me, and Trolloc is supposed to be very difficult for humans to pronounce. It may be a real language, and it may be the same one Jain spoke, but if both are the case I'd suspect the language of Shara since we know Jain's been there, but we don't know if he speaks Trolloc.

GonzoTheGreat
08-22-2012, 04:05 AM
Well, I don't know if this merits a thread of its own but there's not an active Androl thread right now. I've searched around and don't think anyone has mentioned this before... It seems pretty likely to me that Androl is Andric, the former King of Tarabon. He was presumed dead, but no one saw him die.
Are you sure of this?

What I've found does not quite explicitly say it, but it suggests very strongly that his death was witnessed:
"There are many things we must speak of, Morgase, yet I will be brief at this first talk. We Seanchan return to reclaim what was stolen from the heirs of the High King, Artur Paendrag Tanreall." Pleasure over the kaf became a different pleasure in her voice, both expectation and certainty, and she watched Morgase’s face closely. Morgase could not take her eyes away. "What was ours, will be ours again. In truth, it always has been; a thief gains no ownership. I have begun the recovery in Tarabon. Many nobles of that land have already sworn to obey, await and serve; it will not be long before all have. Their king - I cannot recall his name - died opposing me. Had he lived, in rebellion against the Crystal Throne and not even of the Blood, he would have been impaled. His family could not be found to be made property, but there is a new King and a new Panarch who have sworn their fealty to the Empress, may she live forever, and the Crystal Throne. The bandits will be eradicated; no longer will there be strife or hunger in Tarabon, but the people will shelter beneath the wings of the Empress. Now I begin in this Amadicia. Soon all will kneel to the Empress, may she live forever, the direct descendant of the great Artur Hawkwing."
In my view, Suroth is quite good when it comes to making sure those she wants dead are actually as dead as she assumes they are. If she doesn't succeed in getting them properly dead, she just tries again.

NobleHam
08-22-2012, 04:09 AM
Suroth was also a Darkfriend and accomplished liar who was trying to intimidate Morgase. Perhaps she even believed Andric died, but it seems unlikely Suroth would have been present at the time. What I meant is that there's no reliable witness or storyline viewpoint, and the "would have been impaled" line suggests to me that his body wasn't found.. He was kind of a weak King to begin with so I think it's possible he just ran off when things got tough. But, again, I don't have anything to back up this connection other than them both being Taraboners and a feeling, so I'm probably wrong.

GonzoTheGreat
08-22-2012, 04:25 AM
It's also possible that she just ordered his head stuck on a spike and was done with it.

The quote I gave suggests strongly that he's dead. If there is anything in the text to suggest otherwise, that would raise doubts, but without that, all you have is that two Taraboners (or maybe one) have Taraboner names.

Barry Manilow and Barack Obama aren't the same person either, despite having similar names and coming from the same country. I think, at least. Could be wrong, I'll admit.

NobleHam
08-22-2012, 04:33 AM
Well, that and Andric being secretive about his past. And like I said, I don't consider Suroth reliable about much. Aside from her being a darkfriend, everyone (character-wise) thought Alsalam was dead too, and Morgase, etc. Hell, if there's one thing consistent in these books it's that most of the characters are wrong about what's going on in the world. She specifically said he wasn't impaled so she didn't have his head stuck on a pike. It sounds to me more like he fought the Seanchan and when he vanished after a battle they assumed he was among the charred corpses killed by a damane, but his family wasn't found, so he at least managed to get them out of Tarabon.

Ivhon
08-22-2012, 04:41 AM
Four posts formerly found between #2 and #3 have been moved for moderator review.

And have been moved back

The Unreasoner
08-22-2012, 09:46 AM
What I've found does not quite explicitly say it, but it suggests very strongly that his death was witnessed:

In my view, Suroth is quite good when it comes to making sure those she wants dead are actually as dead as she assumes they are. If she doesn't succeed in getting them properly dead, she just tries again.
Alternatively, when you think about who Suroth is talking to (and how the Seanchan have no real care for the truth, few knew Tuon was kidnapped) this may be just a political tactic. She may actually believe Andric dead, but the point of her speech to Morgase seems to be to emphasize the futility in resistance.

finnssss
08-27-2012, 05:57 PM
My theory, since my first read of ToM, has been that Androl is actually a lot older than he appears because he has been channeling as a blocked Wilder for a long ass time.

Tollingtoy
08-28-2012, 05:49 PM
Do men slow the way that women do?

Weird Harold
08-28-2012, 06:00 PM
Do men slow the way that women do?
Yes. A bit "later" than women, but the same basic rules.

(By "later," I mean they look older)

finnssss
08-28-2012, 07:20 PM
Yes. A bit "later" than women, but the same basic rules.

(By "later," I mean they look older)


Women around 20, men closer to 30 and the rate of the slowing depends on their strength in the power.