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Zombie Sammael
11-13-2012, 07:59 AM
To recap the concept:

There is no main thread. We are flying without any kind of safety net.

I’d like discussions to link back to any existing theories, threads and ideas, but this week we are discussing the French cover(s) of TEOTW, so I've got no idea how that's going to happen. This is less to do with whether we “like” covers and more to do with the sheer bat**** insanity of them – we are Theorylanders, and we are not vapid. If you want to be a Theorylander, practice thinking critically and objectively. Don’t worry, we’ll help! On the other hand, if you want to understand this cover, thinking at all will probably be detrimental.

This week, we're discussing the French cover to TEOTW. Well, one of them.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/427547_10150631499724429_1645544665_n.jpg

This is a picture of a spaceship with two naked men on it. Are they falling out of it? Running away from it? Who knows.

Anyway, the artist of this one has done a much better job than Whelan on AMOL and has managed expertly to follow the principle that the covers of Wheel of Time novels must have absolutely nothing to do with the books.

I rather like it.

GonzoTheGreat
11-13-2012, 08:27 AM
I suspect those are Rand and Gawyn, but I do not really know what they're doing either. Maybe there is a Life of Brian like interlude during their first meeting when they're kidnapped by aliens that was left out from all but the French version. I wonder what impact it is gonna have for the Last Battle.

Menthu
11-13-2012, 09:40 AM
I actually think the artist went out of his way and visualized the actual prison of the Dark One with the sealing surrounding it.

Clearly the persones are Ishi and one yet unknown Choosen (or maybe some split off envisioned personality of Ishi) which are caught at the very fringes of the sealing, as everybody knows.

The orange hue in the background, is the actual sealing painted in a human perceptible color range to help all non channelers to understand the true nature of the prison.

Zombie Sammael
11-13-2012, 09:56 AM
I actually think the artist went out of his way and visualized the actual prison of the Dark One with the sealing surrounding it.

Clearly the persones are Ishi and one yet unknown Choosen (or maybe some split off envisioned personality of Ishi) which are caught at the very fringes of the sealing, as everybody knows.

The orange hue in the background, is the actual sealing painted in a human perceptible color range to help all non channelers to understand the true nature of the prison.

Interesting idea. The two naked men could be Aginor and Balthamel, shortly before being released. That might explain why one of them is hiding his face. The spaceship still doesn't quite mark a lick of sense, but A for effort!

Dom
11-13-2012, 01:22 PM
Okay, this is sort of cheating since French is my mother tongue and I can go and read the art credits on the back cover, but there you go:

Cataclysme , acrylic on canvas with LSD, 1968 by Félix Lapaix

"As Mierin Aronaille loses control of the sho-wing Pattern driller, Dragon Lucca and his lover Dragon Cauthon are projected in the future of a Mirror World."

Sid
11-13-2012, 02:11 PM
Cataclysme

That... is hillarious :D

Terez
11-13-2012, 02:26 PM
"As Mierin Aronaille loses control of the sho-wing Pattern driller, Dragon Lucca and his lover Dragon Cauthon are projected in the future of a Mirror World."
:D

WinespringBrother
11-13-2012, 03:50 PM
Okay, this is sort of cheating since French is my mother tongue and I can go and read the art credits on the back cover, but there you go:

Cataclysme , acrylic on canvas with LSD, 1968 by Félix Lapaix

"As Mierin Aronaille loses control of the sho-wing Pattern driller, Dragon Lucca and his lover Dragon Cauthon are projected in the future of a Mirror World."

So you are saying Felix is the artist and Luca is the Dragon ? :eek::confused::cool::rolleyes:

yks 6nnetu hing
11-13-2012, 04:19 PM
Okay, this is sort of cheating since French is my mother tongue and I can go and read the art credits on the back cover, but there you go:

Cataclysme , acrylic on canvas with LSD, 1968 by Félix Lapaix

"As Mierin Aronaille loses control of the sho-wing Pattern driller, Dragon Lucca and his lover Dragon Cauthon are projected in the future of a Mirror World."

Wait... 1968?

Also Luca and Cauthon = lovers?

Thirdly, LSD kinda explains the whole thing...

Crispin's Crispian
11-13-2012, 05:50 PM
Wait... 1968?

Also Luca and Cauthon = lovers?

Thirdly, LSD kinda explains the whole thing...

They made very small versions of it that you could put under your tongue.

In seriousness, I think it probabaly is Balthamel and Aginor, and that thing behind them is the grinding Wheel of Time. No spaceship. Rather, they are floating in the "ether" and eavesdropping on conversations in order to learn the New Tongue.

And the Wheel turns ever on.

Great Lord of the Dark
11-13-2012, 08:21 PM
From all of the French sci-fi and fantasy covers I have seen, I lean towards the editors simply throw on some art they fancy, preferably whatever can be acquired cheaply, since the translation costs already push book prices through the roof. There are enough French conceptual artists to plunder to randomly decorate every cover, although for some reason many never get cover art of any sort, perhaps because text-based covers make it seem more like 'un grand oeuvre' and accord it respectability.

Tollingtoy
11-13-2012, 08:29 PM
Agreed.....it definitely seems to be the Wheel of Time imagined as a series of gears and threatening to grind up those poor naked fellows. I'm not sure they're meant to represent any characters in particular

Dom
11-13-2012, 09:10 PM
From all of the French sci-fi and fantasy covers I have seen, I lean towards the editors simply throw on some art they fancy, preferably whatever can be acquired cheaply

Yeah, I can confirm that.

All the books from the Fantasy and Sci-Fi collections in Pocket have those generic covers in the same vaguely surrealist, vaguely 70s style. They're not commissioned for the books, it looks like the publisher bought rights for cheap to a ton of such illustrations (not necessarily French, most of the names credited I've seen sound American).

The large format of WOT has another type of "generic" covers, either medieval tapestries or pictures from codexes, it's been a while and I can't recall for sure.


although for some reason many never get cover art of any sort, perhaps because text-based covers make it seem more like 'un grand oeuvre' and accord it respectability.

That may play a bit, though honestly Fantasy/SF have really no chance of being perceived as "respectable" lit. in France (those genres are maligned far more than they are in the US.). There's but one big publisher with a good SF collection going back to the 60s that takes good care of what it publishes. American series like WOT are dealt with very cheaply, usually with atrocious, rushed translations (and for the few pages I've read of it, WOT's no exception).

Most of all, it's traditional/classic for French books from several big publishers to have text-only or graphical covers without illustration, even in genre lit. Nowadays it's not so true, most books have illustrated covers, US-style (though usually more subdued, using less flashy colors, and you rarely ever see metallic or embossed lettering and stuff like that either. It's also typical for French paperbacks from a given publisher to all have the same graphic look. They rarely develop a look for a writer or a series as it's done here. Book marketing culture overall is really very different).

Zombie Sammael
11-14-2012, 05:29 AM
I was going to save this for a tongue-in-cheek follow up next week, but since we've actually got into a quite interesting discussion about the French covers and how they came to be, I'll go ahead and post it here:

http://images.wikia.com/wot/images/d/d8/WoT_French1.jpg

This one is a naked man (seriously what is up with all these naked dudes?) floating in a sphere. The sphere looks vaguely enough like a wheel, and vaguely enough like an eye, to be appropriate, in my opinion. The man looks like he has red hair, so I'm going to go ahead and suggest he is an extremely well-developed eighteen year old Rand. I think if this depicts anything (which, as people have noted above, it probably doesn't), it's a scene from the end of the book, with Rand having an experience with saidin. I should point out that it appears that this one is the first part of the book, and the one I posted originally is the second, so it's also arguable that this might be Lews Therin in the prologue or some such.

I guess I'll go with a Japanese cover next week. If I remember.

GonzoTheGreat
11-14-2012, 07:24 AM
I guess I'll go with a Japanese cover next week. If I remember.
Actually, I think that it might be appropriate (and within the time limits) to do one book per week, with (if available) multiple covers. So you could do both a Japanese and a Guatemalan* version of TGH next week.

* If you can find one. Not quite sure they exist. Not sure they'd be safe for TL if they do, either.

Zombie Sammael
11-14-2012, 08:57 AM
Actually, I think that it might be appropriate (and within the time limits) to do one book per week, with (if available) multiple covers. So you could do both a Japanese and a Guatemalan* version of TGH next week.

* If you can find one. Not quite sure they exist. Not sure they'd be safe for TL if they do, either.

Okay, well, there are a couple of ways of doing this. Either I could just pick my favourite cover for each book and we could discuss that, or I could post all the different versions and we could have a POLL. If I remember to do it at all. Which would people prefer?

Khoram
11-14-2012, 10:49 AM
Man. I haven't seen covers like that since... high school. Even in elementary school, french book covers had a similar feel, although minus the naked men.

God how I hated those covers. XD

Ils sont tellement dégueulasse. Tabernak.

Oh, and if you choose to remember, I think a poll would be pretty cool - getting to see all the different covers of the WoT. Although no more French ones. Please. I've seen enough French to last 3 Turnings.

Tsofu
11-14-2012, 11:29 AM
The first cover is just ineffable. The second one raises some questions of an anatomical nature. Given the distance apart of Rand's legs? There ought to be some dangly bits visible unless he's hung like the proverbial stud canary, though with his hair streaming straight up like a kewpie doll, mebbe he's falling so fast, everything is, you know, caught in the updraft?

Also? What are those things rising from the viscous fluid in the background? the nearer one looks vaguely like a chambered Nautilus. Mebbe that's Aginor in one of his 'creations' escaping?

Thank you for these, ZS! They are wonderfully awful!:D:D

Tsofu

Zombie Sammael
11-14-2012, 12:14 PM
The first cover is just ineffable. The second one raises some questions of an anatomical nature. Given the distance apart of Rand's legs? There ought to be some dangly bits visible unless he's hung like the proverbial stud canary, though with his hair streaming straight up like a kewpie doll, mebbe he's falling so fast, everything is, you know, caught in the updraft?

Also? What are those things rising from the viscous fluid in the background? the nearer one looks vaguely like a chambered Nautilus. Mebbe that's Aginor in one of his 'creations' escaping?

Thank you for these, ZS! They are wonderfully awful!:D:D

Tsofu

Possibly it's actually a very heavily muscled woman?

Khoram
11-14-2012, 12:32 PM
Possibly it's actually a very heavily muscled woman?

There's probably cadin'sor floating around somewhere nearby. :/

Although I always thought Maidens of the Spear were (more or less) better looking than that. :(

Dom
11-14-2012, 01:58 PM
Man. I haven't seen covers like that since... high school. Even in elementary school, french book covers had a similar feel, although minus the naked men.

God how I hated those covers. XD

Ils sont tellement dégueulasse. Tabernak.

Oh, and if you choose to remember, I think a poll would be pretty cool - getting to see all the different covers of the WoT. Although no more French ones. Please. I've seen enough French to last 3 Turnings.

Et la couverture c'est rien comparé à la traduction qui est à vomir.

Jamais compris ceux qui se tape ça en français, surtout ici. Faut vraiment être masochiste.

Brita
11-14-2012, 02:17 PM
With covers like these we might need a NSFW warning :p Although the second cover looks a little like DaVinci's Vitruvian Man- so I may be able to get away with that...

Khoram
11-14-2012, 02:37 PM
Et la couverture c'est rien comparé à la traduction qui est à vomir.

Jamais compris ceux qui se tape ça en français, surtout ici. Faut vraiment être masochiste.

Les traductions sont absolument terrible...

Je pense que les Français, surtout au Québec, prennent tout ce qu'ils peuvent en français, même si c'est déplorable.

Clearly they're starved for French. Maybe WoT should be translated into Frenglish for the nation of Quebec. :rolleyes: That would be something.

GonzoTheGreat
11-15-2012, 03:58 AM
Possibly it's actually a very heavily muscled woman?
Moiraine?

Zombie Sammael
11-15-2012, 05:30 AM
With covers like these we might need a NSFW warning :p Although the second cover looks a little like DaVinci's Vitruvian Man- so I may be able to get away with that...

I apologise for this. I never even thought about the covers being considered NSFW as I didn't see them as sexual, merely book covers. I will try to do better in future. If a mod wants to add NSFW tags to the post, please do so.

Figbiscuit
11-15-2012, 07:15 AM
They made very small versions of it that you could put under your tongue.

In seriousness, I think it probabaly is Balthamel and Aginor, and that thing behind them is the grinding Wheel of Time. No spaceship. Rather, they are floating in the "ether" and eavesdropping on conversations in order to learn the New Tongue.

And the Wheel turns ever on.

Talk about picking the most random bit of the story to make a cover out of :confused:

And I now feel extremely sorry for the French and their boring book covers. Quite often illustrated covers are the reason I pick up a new book in the first place.

GonzoTheGreat
11-15-2012, 08:31 AM
And I now feel extremely sorry for the French and their boring book covers. Quite often illustrated covers are the reason I pick up a new book in the first place.
But from what we've heard, all French covers are equally boring, so it's still a level playing field.

Brita
11-15-2012, 09:11 AM
I apologise for this. I never even thought about the covers being considered NSFW as I didn't see them as sexual, merely book covers. I will try to do better in future. If a mod wants to add NSFW tags to the post, please do so.

I was mostly joking, but I guess a tag re: partial nudity might not be a bad idea :) If the bacon bra was scandoulous, then bare buttocks would be too I suppose.

Khoram
11-15-2012, 09:43 AM
And I now feel extremely sorry for the French and their boring book covers. Quite often illustrated covers are the reason I pick up a new book in the first place.

There's a reason why you don't judge a book by its cover, you know. ;)

GonzoTheGreat
11-15-2012, 10:25 AM
There's a reason why you don't judge a book by its cover, you know. ;)
I'm not sure that judging a book by the huge chunks of French text in it would turn out all that much more favorable, though.

Khoram
11-15-2012, 11:42 AM
I'm not sure that judging a book by the huge chunks of French text in it would turn out all that much more favorable, though.

Especially poorly translated French. :(

I'm all for a good French book (kinda), but they have to be well-translated good French books.

Figbiscuit
11-15-2012, 01:36 PM
There's a reason why you don't judge a book by its cover, you know. ;)

Ahem. By it's cover and the first page of text. Which would be French so still very boring. To me. :p

Tomp
11-15-2012, 02:39 PM
On the first cover.

Maybe it's a depiction of the wheel of time weaving the age lace and two of the ta'veren tied to the wheel.

Khoram
11-15-2012, 02:50 PM
Ahem. By it's cover and the first page of text. Which would be French so still very boring. To me. :p

Yeah, well, you're British. You're trained to hate the French. ;)

Dom
11-15-2012, 03:37 PM
Clearly they're starved for French. Maybe WoT should be translated into Frenglish for the nation of Quebec. That would be something.

Actually, if WOT had a Québec publisher there's only one choice for Fantasy (À Lire) and I guess the translation would be much better than those botched French ones. I don't read translations from English myself, but À Lire publishes several anglo-Canadian writers (the best known in Fantasy would be G.G. Kay) and its translations are done by writers in the field (Vonarburg for Kay, for e.g.) and regularly get kudos.

I don't know anyone above 14 who read Fantasy in French translation, but my circle of francophone Fantasy readers isn't that wide.

What I know is those WOT fans must be fairly rich, the books take forever to come out in Pocket and each volume of the large format is around 40$ (all the books split in at least two volumes, most are three and TSR is split in four, IRRC). That's one heck of a bill.

Khoram
11-15-2012, 04:09 PM
Actually, if WOT had a Québec publisher there's only one choice for Fantasy (À Lire) and I guess the translation would be much better than those botched French ones. I don't read translations from English myself, but À Lire publishes several anglo-Canadian writers (the best known in Fantasy would be G.G. Kay) and its translations are done by writers in the field (Vonarburg for Kay, for e.g.) and regularly get kudos.

I don't know anyone above 14 who read Fantasy in French translation, but my circle of francophone Fantasy readers isn't that wide.

What I know is those WOT fans must be fairly rich, the books take forever to come out in Pocket and each volume of the large format is around 40$ (all the books split in at least two volumes, most are three and TSR is split in four, IRRC). That's one heck of a bill.

Well, I always knew the French were crazy. ;)

Dom
11-15-2012, 08:13 PM
Well, I always knew the French were crazy. ;)


Crazy or lazy, or really not money-wise. :)



It baffles me despite everyone reaching a decent level in English in school so many people still read novels (of all things) in translation.

I've stopped doing that at around thirteen, the minute my English was good enough to manage. My savings have probably reached 10,000$.

That's especially stupid in Montréal itself where it's not like the far cheaper English books haven't been massively available even before Amazon and co.... Mind you, French bookstores in Montréal commonly offer the English original when the translation finally comes out, and reviewers bitching about the translation and advising those who can to read the original is "trendy" (reviewers have become utterly allergic to European translations of fiction set in north-America, even more when the writer is anglo-canadian. You listen to literature radio shows and they sometimes spend more time making fun of how the French translator messed up everything and ruined the book than speaking of the book itself).

Khoram
11-15-2012, 08:35 PM
Crazy or lazy, or really not money-wise. :)



It baffles me despite everyone reaching a decent level in English in school so many people still read novels (of all things) in translation.

I've stopped doing that at around thirteen, the minute my English was good enough to manage. My savings have probably reached 10,000$.

That's especially stupid in Montréal itself where it's not like the far cheaper English books haven't been massively available even before Amazon and co.... Mind you, French bookstores in Montréal commonly offer the English original when the translation finally comes out, and reviewers bitching about the translation and advising those who can to read the original is "trendy" (reviewers have become utterly allergic to European translations of fiction set in north-America, even more when the writer is anglo-canadian. You listen to literature radio shows and they sometimes spend more time making fun of how the French translator messed up everything and ruined the book than speaking of the book itself).

Note to the wise: don't buy French translations. ;)

I haven't had a solid conversation in French in a long time. And this coming from a guy who refs French coaches regularly. :rolleyes: