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Jalyn
12-13-2012, 12:22 AM
A few years back I tried to read The Gathering Storm and was utterly lost. This obviously meant that I had forgotten pieces of the story and had to reread from the beginning. Which I put off and put off and put off. Then, when I got to the end of CoT, I realized that that was the last bit that I remembered. Had I gone back to KoD at the original point, I probably would have been fine. *sigh*
(Yes, this is why I never left the non-TL board in my infrequent visits)

Regardless, I have now done both a complete reread and am caught up and I've read bunches of your theories. YAY. Some thoughts:

- I did books 1-9 using the audiobooks at triple speed because it was faster and I thought I needed to catch up, not that I was doing a comprehensive reread to find new things. And, I've only been through the last three once.

Starting from the end:

WTH Verin?? Are you a moron? Try this:

"Here's a letter. My price for taking you to Andor is that you hold off reading it for 20 days and wait in Camelyn until that point"
"Gee, Verin, that's a really long time, how about 5 days."
"10"
"OK"
10 days pass.
Mat reads letter. "Blood and bloody ashes! Where's Elayne?"

Or, you know, plan to have it delivered to Elayne at that point like ALL of the other letters you sent.

Speaking of which, do we believe Verin's tale about the Ta'vern swirls that brought her to Mat?

Ok, we'll just make this the Verin section.

Damn it, I'm never going to get the "Who was Verin's dad" question answered!

TITLE: Great Hunt
CHAPTER: 37 - What Might Be
As my father would have said, it's time to roll the dice."


This does, however, make

TITLE: Great Hunt
CHAPTER: 37 - What Might Be

Verin gave herself a shake and looked at him. "Does it surprise you that your life might go differently if you made different choices, or different things happened to you? Though I never thought I - Well. The important thing is, we are here. Though not as we hoped."

more than slightly interesting. She joined the BA in this life, what was so bizarre that she didn't think she'd do it? (Maybe turn to the dark in her heart as well?)

Extremely interested to see what other letters are hanging out there.
Allana

Towers of Midnight
CHAPTER: 12 - An Empty Ink Bottle
She's a tool. An important one." She reached over to the desk, holding up a sheet of paper that they'd found in the room. It had been folded with a blood-red seal of wax on one side.

Rand


Towers of Midnight
Chapter 3 - The Amyrlin's Anger

The woman pulled something out of her sleeve and proffered it to Rand. A small letter with a red seal.


Galad?!

Towers of Midnight
Chapter 44 - A Backhanded Request

Galad was tucking something into his pocket. A small letter, it appeared, with a red seal. Where had he gotten that? He looked troubled, though his expression lightened as he arrived.

But she had a stack of them. Who got one that we still haven't seen?

Also, damn, the BA really ARE morons. Until the hour of my death? For people that you are offering immortality? "So, you're BA. I'm executing you in 59 minutes. Anything you want to tell me?" Or even, "I'm so sorry, I can't heal you from that mortal wound, you'll die within the hour" "Hmm, they always say that anyone can return to the light. And I'm obviously not going to live forever like I was promised..."

Someone please tell me that Egwene is spending some time reading the rest of that book? And did Verin not mention the attack on Camelyn in it? WTF, once again, Verin?!

At the end of TGS I thought she was almost too awesome and that her storyline hit all the points that I never expected but loved. As of the epilogue of ToM, she's an idiot several times over.

Ok, moving the hell on...

~ Are we assuming that the guy that said Moraine was not the one he was looking for was Moridin?
Also, why the heck can Slayer go into the Tower of Ghenjei without issue back in tSR? I think I thought at the time that it was ok for major shadow players, but that doesn't make sense given that it obviously killed Lanfear (or at least trapped her.)

~Er. Loony theory? (Beware the run-on fragment ahead) Reading one of the ToM FAQ updates, regarding LTT, and then an older (I think pre-ToM) theory about him possibly being a dreadlord that hid in a stasis box and something else in the FAQ about Logain possible being Guaire reborn with the taint giving him those memories... What if Taim is one of the major dreadlords from the WoS reborn with the same issue? (I think the main theory now is that Taim is Moridin, but... I'm stubborn and I've been saying that Taim is Taim for an awfully long time.)

~Also, the Far Madding BS twist was actually just as WTF this time around on the reread. Wait, there's a city where it's not possible to channel, that has been mentioned several times and no one thought to mention that's completely unique? It apparently annoyed me so much that I completely blocked it from my memory. I read that section still with the "WTF. This is ridiculous. Why has no one mentioned this? (And a bit of, I know I read this book, this is where Rand cleanses the damn source, how do I not remember any of this?)

~The borderlanders. Are you kidding me? This would have gone REALLY well had Moraine not prevailed in tFoH and Rand had "turned into" LTT.
*Smack* Dead borderlander.
"Er. Maybe that's enough of that part. How did what's her name die?"
"Oh, WoS stuff, well she whatever the actual answer was..."
"Oh. OK, cool. What do you want the rest of us to do?"
*World screwed anyway*
At the very least there needed to be a caveat of "if the worlds hottest chick is hanging from his arm, just kill him"

You took THAT much of your force out of the borderlands for this? If you really thought you could kill him if he gave the wrong answer than you didn't need to strip your armies to do it! Seriously, you know TG is on the way, you don't think the Blight is going to get worse? Abdicate, now.

~Did anyone else feel like "All You Need is Love" needed to be playing on Dragonmount during Rand's epiphany? (BTW, much preferred watching that from Perrin's viewpoint and think it would have been much more stressful to have seen it that way first.)

~Asmo - glossary. Now that's high comedy. (Especially as, even knowing that beforehand, I still didn't connect 3 to Asmo because SH was berating her and there was no reason for him to be upset that she killed Asmo. Instead I was at Mesaana, Osan'gar. Does he mean Sammael? I suppose that could be kinda her fault.)

~Is the BA/Oath Rod combo Egwene's "Great Purge?" If so, shouldn't she be concerned that more BA had figured out Mesaana's trick, given that the indicated purge didn't catch lots and lots of people?

~Oh! Why does Egwene et all think that releasing the vows on another Oath Rod, and retiring to the Kin, would restore a persons lifespan? And why do they think AS have to be bound by the Oaths, but its perfectly OK to have people leave the AS, be known as ex-AS and be able to do whatever the hell they please?

~Where the hell is my Logain? And how is someone that was apparently with him being turned by a 13x13 ring? (Also? Seriously cool that this came back - with an explanation why the BA hasn't just been grabbing anyone that has a great deal of talent and using it.)

Possible aMoL prologue spoiler?
Um, speaking of turned, is Rand's biological father wearing a red veil?

(I haven't read the entirety of the aMoL prologue, but from the posts on the board, I think the red veiled Aiel might have been clarified there, so, spoiled this.

~I don't love Tuon nearly as much as I did at the end of CoT. I'm not sure I even like her at this point.

~Also, I'm not done with Elaida's POV yet. I need to see her understand how badly she screwed each and every foretelling that she had. I'm, kind of hoping that she's used in the attack on TV and a servant walks up with a red sealed letter that reads something along the lines of:

"Dear supposed Amyrlin,
Rand al'Thor is Tigraine's kid, making him of the bloody royal line of Andor and the key to TG. There were multiple people that could have told you that, if you'd bothered to ask.
By the way, Amyrlin is bloody title and anyone who holds it would be referenced so. The fact that you were considered such by a faction while you gave the foretelling doesn't mean it meant you. Sisters walking on the grounds of a broken BT doesn't mean that they broke it, and if they did, it doesn't mean the ones that you sent for that purpose.
Also, you might know this by now, but Egwene's a dreamer, if she warns you about something, you might want to listen to it.
Your keeper was the head of the BA. If you had any brains, you might have figured that out by the fact that everything she had you do was going to make the situation worse. Instead, you simply thought about how it affected you.
I hope in your next life, you are given a bigger capacity for understanding bloody anything.
Yours,
One of those non-existent members of the BA

Ok, it doesn't have to happen through a Verin letter, but I want to see her understand how badly she screwed up, the resolution of the WT story robbed me of that. (Also, bets that she still doesn't believe that Egwene's a dreamer?)

I'm pretty sure there's more, but I'll leave it here for the moment.

Terez
12-13-2012, 03:19 AM
Speaking of which, do we believe Verin's tale about the Ta'vern swirls that brought her to Mat?
There has been some debate on it. It seems most believe it, but I have a tendency to not believe it.

She joined the BA in this life, what was so bizarre that she didn't think she'd do it? (Maybe turn to the dark in her heart as well?)
It may have been "I didn't think I'd ever be a hero" or some such.

But she had a stack of them. Who got one that we still haven't seen?
We don't really have any clues for others.

Are we assuming that the guy that said Moraine was not the one he was looking for was Moridin?
We were (mostly) assuming that. Some thought it might be Slayer. We got an answer in the prologue.

Also, why the heck can Slayer go into the Tower of Ghenjei without issue back in tSR? I think I thought at the time that it was ok for major shadow players, but that doesn't make sense given that it obviously killed Lanfear (or at least trapped her.)
Most of us agree that Slayer just stepped out of the dream when he reached the tower. He might have been trying to lure Perrin to Ghenjei for some reason or another.

I'm stubborn and I've been saying that Taim is Taim for an awfully long time.
We also got some resolution on this in the prologue.

~Also, the Far Madding BS twist was actually just as WTF this time around on the reread. Wait, there's a city where it's not possible to channel, that has been mentioned several times and no one thought to mention that's completely unique? It apparently annoyed me so much that I completely blocked it from my memory. I read that section still with the "WTF. This is ridiculous. Why has no one mentioned this? (And a bit of, I know I read this book, this is where Rand cleanses the damn source, how do I not remember any of this?)
Rand cleansed the Source in Shadar Logoth. They traveled directly there from right outside Far Madding. Other than that I'm not sure what the confusion is. :confused:

Asmo - glossary. Now that's high comedy.
Don't let bossman hear you say that. He's still angsting (http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=819#12) about it. :)

Is the BA/Oath Rod combo Egwene's "Great Purge?" If so, shouldn't she be concerned that more BA had figured out Mesaana's trick, given that the indicated purge didn't catch lots and lots of people?
The behavior of the Black Ajah during the Purge doesn't indicate that Mesaana shared that secret. All the ones in the Tower escaped, and none of the ones who weren't on the list tried to come back. And it appears that Verin didn't miss many, so Egwene need not be all that concerned. Besides, it was not in Mesaana's character to share her Age of Legends knowledge unless she thought it absolutely necessary.

Oh! Why does Egwene et all think that releasing the vows on another Oath Rod...
Wait...why another one?

...and retiring to the Kin, would restore a persons lifespan?
Probably because of what happened to Amico and Siuan and Leane.

And why do they think AS have to be bound by the Oaths, but its perfectly OK to have people leave the AS, be known as ex-AS and be able to do whatever the hell they please?
I think that, at the root of it, Egwene would like to get rid of the Oaths altogether. But she accepted Siuan's argument that it was an important identifying characteristic of the Aes Sedai. Presumably the retired Aes Sedai wouldn't be, for example, trying to get rulers to believe what they were saying was true.

Where the hell is my Logain?
No one knows, but we suspect he has a plan. :)

And how is someone that was apparently with him being turned by a 13x13 ring?
I suspect he sent Mezar in to check on things, and Mezar never came back.

(Also? Seriously cool that this came back - with an explanation why the BA hasn't just been grabbing anyone that has a great deal of talent and using it.)
Agreed on both points!

Um, speaking of turned, is Rand's biological father wearing a red veil?
Not a spoiler. When his story was told in TSR, it was implied that several people witnessed his death (at the hands of Luc).

I don't love Tuon nearly as much as I did at the end of CoT. I'm not sure I even like her at this point.
She was...problematic...in the Brandon books. Some think it was a slight misinterpretation of her character. Some didn't even notice a change.

GonzoTheGreat
12-13-2012, 03:50 AM
~Is the BA/Oath Rod combo Egwene's "Great Purge?" If so, shouldn't she be concerned that more BA had figured out Mesaana's trick, given that the indicated purge didn't catch lots and lots of people?
Egwene assumes there aren't any BA left in the Tower, and that's good enough for Egwene. Who are you to question the Amyrlin?

Jalyn
12-13-2012, 09:37 AM
It may have been "I didn't think I'd ever be a hero" or some such.

But she was! More, I would guess that she already knew how it would go down, most likely.

We also got some resolution on this in the prologue.

*chants* I am not paying for a prologue to a book that I'm buying in less than a month. I am not paying for a prologue to a book that I'm buying in less than a month. I am not paying for a prologue to a book that I'm buying in less than a month.
OK, I'll pick it up later today.

Rand cleansed the Source in Shadar Logoth. They traveled directly there from right outside Far Madding. Other than that I'm not sure what the confusion is. :confused:
There's no confusion about what happened. I had a personal bit of confusion because I had completely forgotten about the Far Madding trip. (Probably because I hated it. When I went to look at some of my old posts, my response at the time was basically "WTF? Several different people have mentioned Far Madding and given us bits and pieces of their culture, but no one has bothered to mention that it's basically a man-made stedding? That's ludicrous and bad story-telling and annoying." That was also my reaction when I got to it on the reread, having forgotten it entirely.)

The behavior of the Black Ajah during the Purge doesn't indicate that Mesaana shared that secret. All the ones in the Tower escaped, and none of the ones who weren't on the list tried to come back. And it appears that Verin didn't miss many, so Egwene need not be all that concerned. Besides, it was not in Mesaana's character to share her Age of Legends knowledge unless she thought it absolutely necessary.
I actually agree with all of that. I guess I'm just annoyed that Egwene doesn't equate it back to her testing at all. Hmm. Maybe now that someone's thought of a way to defeat the oath rod, perhaps some of the sisters that were out but not caught by Verin will figure it out as well and come back.


Wait...why another one?
Probably because of what happened to Amico and Siuan and Leane.

Because I am not immune to typos.

I guess that just seems like a leap to me. Losing the agesless face doesn't mean that the natural lifespan was restored. (And I continued on originally, but there's probably a thread about it somewhere to hunt up. ;))

Not a spoiler. When his story was told in TSR, it was implied that several people witnessed his death (at the hands of Luc).
I was more thinking that what I was implying might be considered a spoiler for the prologue. (Which I have only read the beginning of, hence so many "it's in the prologue" responses. Regardless, damn you're right. And that SUCKS.

She was...problematic...in the Brandon books. Some think it was a slight misinterpretation of her character. Some didn't even notice a change.

I guess I can see how she would get from Tuon to Fortuona, the sul'dam revelation didn't phase her in the least. I do wish we'd seen her response to the sul'dam with the caravan learning to channel. I'm not sure which would horrify her more - one deliberately choosing to channel or the one that did it by accident. (Probably the latter, as it goes against her immediate response.)
Anyway, I hate to say it, but at this point, I kind of want Tuon collared for at least a bit.

Terez
12-13-2012, 10:24 AM
*chants* I am not paying for a prologue to a book that I'm buying in less than a month. I am not paying for a prologue to a book that I'm buying in less than a month. I am not paying for a prologue to a book that I'm buying in less than a month.
OK, I'll pick it up later today.
lol, for the price of a Big Mac. Not too hard to justify.

I actually agree with all of that. I guess I'm just annoyed that Egwene doesn't equate it back to her testing at all. Hmm. Maybe now that someone's thought of a way to defeat the oath rod, perhaps some of the sisters that were out but not caught by Verin will figure it out as well and come back.
Well, the problem with that is that they have known since the rebel Purging that Egwene has a list. So why would any of them risk coming back, knowing they might be on that list?

I guess that just seems like a leap to me. Losing the agesless face doesn't mean that the natural lifespan was restored.
Maybe not conclusively, but it is a fairly logical assumption to make. If it doesn't work, then oh well, but it's worth giving a shot.

I hate to say it, but at this point, I kind of want Tuon collared for at least a bit.
It's quite possible, considering Egwene's dream of a hard-faced Seanchan woman handing her an a'dam. Egeanin might propose that she force Tuon to channel; it fits with her themes since the whole point of her inclusion in the Tanchico plotline was for her to learn why sul'dam could be collared.

Jalyn
12-13-2012, 10:35 AM
Well, the problem with that is that they have known since the rebel Purging that Egwene has a list. So why would any of them risk coming back, knowing they might be on that list?

If they can "disprove" the list, it's even better.

Maybe not conclusively, but it is a fairly logical assumption to make. If it doesn't work, then oh well, but it's worth giving a shot.
Except that she and Nyneave and anyone else that she "officially" raises are gambling their lives on something that they don't know or fully understand.

GonzoTheGreat
12-13-2012, 11:01 AM
Then again, when they learn (say, after a thousand years or so) that former AS are actually more trusted without the three oaths than with, they may possibly start to consider whether the theory behind them is valid.

Jalyn
12-13-2012, 11:06 AM
Then again, when they learn (say, after a thousand years or so) that former AS are actually more trusted without the three oaths than with, they may possibly start to consider whether the theory behind them is valid.

Or that the formerly fairly trusted Kin (in Ebou Dar, at least) are now just as "trusted" as the Aes Sedai that swear the oaths because they are lumped together and assumed to be just as bad as the AS. I need to find a thread on this, because, really, the whole idea's just stupid.
(And I don't normally consider Egwene to be stupid.)

GonzoTheGreat
12-13-2012, 11:29 AM
Don't worry, they'll start to think (and reconsider) in a hurry just as soon as they discover that the Oath Rod doesn't work on men.

Weiramon
12-13-2012, 01:52 PM
I guess that just seems like a leap to me. Losing the agesless face doesn't mean that the natural lifespan was restored. (And I continued on originally, but there's probably a thread about it somewhere to hunt up. ;))

Burn my soul, it would not be a surprise to hear some yellow-sashed Aes Sedai examined them and proclaimed them capable of bearing children.

Jalyn
12-13-2012, 02:23 PM
Burn my soul, it would not be a surprise to hear some yellow-sashed Aes Sedai examined them and proclaimed them capable of bearing children.

Do we know that they weren't still capable of bearing children before they were stilled? Neither Siuan nor Leane were particularly old before that point. Even with the cutting of an Aes Sedia life by the binding rod, they were naturally in their 40's! Given the still longer life of a bound AS, I would expect child bearing years hadn't yet passed them.

Terez
12-13-2012, 03:03 PM
Do we know that they weren't still capable of bearing children before they were stilled?
It was implied, otherwise there would have been nothing special about it.

Weiramon
12-13-2012, 03:08 PM
Do we know that they weren't still capable of bearing children before they were stilled? Neither Siuan nor Leane were particularly old before that point. Even with the cutting of an Aes Sedia life by the binding rod, they were naturally in their 40's! Given the still longer life of a bound AS, I would expect child bearing years hadn't yet passed them.

Aye, no doubt nothing to exclaim upon that pair of silverpike.

Jalyn
12-13-2012, 04:15 PM
It was implied, otherwise there would have been nothing special about it.

Or most people just forgot how young Siuan and Leane really were - perhaps because they were both in such powerful positions. A woman in her 40s, with very little chance of living until even 100 is still "capable of bearing children." I would suspect that child bearing years for someone that would live (naturally) into their 5th century would be at least 300. With the binding affect, that would probably be cut back as well, but it wouldn't make it shorter than it would be for someone with a standard human life span!

Davian93
12-13-2012, 06:17 PM
I wonder how much effect that Verin's trip through the Portal Stones in TGH had on her later decisions and how she went about betraying the DO? She had to have had many, many lives where she didnt betray him or did and it failed, etc etc.

Jalyn
12-13-2012, 06:34 PM
I wonder how much effect that Verin's trip through the Portal Stones in TGH had on her later decisions and how she went about betraying the DO? She had to have had many, many lives where she didnt betray him or did and it failed, etc etc.

Very good point. Too bad she didn't see how stupid it would be to tell Mat that if he opened something, he'd have to do what it said. Although, do we have any idea if Rand has retained any of those possible futures? We only saw the ones that didn't involve leaving with Moraine and Lan, but they were hinted at in the text, I believe.
Almost like he went through the WO circle terangreal, really...

Edit: fix typo. Rand didn't set up house with Lan & Moraine, just left the Two Rivers.

GonzoTheGreat
12-14-2012, 03:52 AM
Neither Siuan nor Leane were particularly old before that point.
Not particularly old, no, but:
Leane, on the other hand, in true Aes Sedai fashion embraced what had changed. A young woman again - Egwene had overheard a Yellow exclaiming in wonder that both were prime childbearing age, by everything she could find - she might never have been Keeper, never have had any other face.
It seems to be the difference between women in their thirties* and women around twenty years of age. Both could have children, but only the latter are at prime childbearing age.

* A state AS would remain in for quite a while.

Jalyn
12-14-2012, 09:55 PM
Going through more slowly now...

Be forewarned.*Ilyena*will ask you so many questions you may end up telling her everything you know."

So, have we decided if one of Rand's harem is Ilyena?

Odd, based on the description of the dead, LTT had small children. At 400 years old, I'd have expected his children to be grown. I'm not sure if that means channelers waite a long time to have kids or if they have multiple cycles. Or maybe LTT was just weird.

I love the initial description of Tam and how solid he is.

Interesting that Rand was the last of the boys to see the Fade.

Huh, and Rand gets the first wolf reference.

Hee, the reference to Thom coming in the middle of the night reminds me that I once tried to prove he was a DF because our Tam asked which of the folk leaving EF could have been a Forsaken.

Jalyn
12-14-2012, 11:17 PM
I am going to hold firm to my belief that this series ends with Rand living in an obscure village, on their general council. I don't know how in the world this fits with the harem or why he would leave his 6! children behind, but the foreshadowing fits RJ perfectly:

"He'll follow you on the Village Council one day, Tam"

Ugh. An example of the RJ writing that I've never appreciated. I haven't combed through BS the same way to see if he does it.

(Cenn) was headed for the inn before he finished...

...At that time of the busy day before Festival, Rand expected to find the common room empty except for Bran and his father and the cat, but four more members of the village council, including Cenn, sat in high-backed chairs

Well, yes, Rand, you JUST watched Cenn walk into the inn, you SHOULD expect him to be there!

OK. Wait a second, Lan is wearing his distinctive Warder's cloak and Moraine is wearing her AS ring? Even given that they think that they are in the back of nowhere, do they think stories don't reach that far? Especially given that they came looking for someone who's father fought by TV, how could they not expect to be noticed as what they were fairly quickly? It's not a continuity issue, we're never shown Tam seeing and not recognizing them, I just don't buy that they'd take the risk.

This isn't like ghost hounds is it? Or the frogs?"
I want to know the story of the frogs!

She smiled, and Rand found himself wondering if there was anything he might do for her, somthing that would give her an excuse to stay near her

Did Moraine just use the minor compulsion of the blues.

For reference, I mean:

Embracing the Source, she wove Spirit in one of the Blue's secret weaves and touched the innkeeper with it. Slight anticipation became definite unease. "Are you certain the young woman meets my description exactly? she asked, and tightened the weave a fraction...
"Drink," Moraine commanded, tightening the weave to just short of panic...
Still staring into Moraine's eyes, the woman raised the mug unsteadily to her mouth...

Also, note that both Mat and Rand think that they shouldn't spend the coin that Moraine gave them, but Ewin doesn't think that until they say so.

OMG. If this double posts, I'm sorry, but I thought I posted it, went back and posted other things and then didn't see it. Somehow the iPad back button managed to preserve the entire thing!

Jalyn
12-14-2012, 11:36 PM
Damnit. Here's another of the "these paragraphs make no sense together" bits:

Cenn looked around defiantly, trying to stare down the glowers, and raised his voice. "I didn't hear Fain say this was a False Dragon...
it's bad enough to have Fain here talking about false dragons using the Power without this Dragon-possessed fool of a boy bring Aes Sedai into it...

There are lots of things in the "..." in the middle, but nothing that would move Cenn into assuming that he's a False Dragon. The most important was that Logaine could channel, after all.

Jalyn
12-15-2012, 12:22 AM
Hmm. Interesting passage:


Perrin shook his shaggy head. "I don't want to see him. Somewhere else, maybe, but not in the Two Rivers. Not if it means war."
"Not if it means Aes Sedai here, either," Rand added. "Or have you forgotten who caused the Breaking ? The Dragon may have started it, but it was Aes Sedai that broke the world."

The only one of the three that ends up fighting battles in the TR, doesn't want the excitement if hurts their home.
And Rand is trying to push off the blame of the breaking from LTT!

Another interesting bit from this portion, Mat has told the "Dragon will save the world" story and Perrin replies:

"I suppose he claimed we'd all live in a new Age of Legends afterwards, too.

Woah!
"You think they're really Darkfriends?" Mat was frowning thoughtfully.
"Who?" Rand asked.
"Aes Sedai."
Rand glanced at Perrin, who shrugged. "The stories," he began slowly, but Mat cut him off.
"Not all the stories say the serve the Dark One, Rand."
I kind of love that, at the very beginning, Mat's the one that's willing to give the AS the benefit of the doubt.

Heh. As of this point, Rand's the only one that appears to have even considered marriage. As of ToM, he's the only one unmarried.

Oh, yes, the first "bloody annoying Egwene*" moment where she buts into a conversation with the three boys about seeing the Fade, Perrin & Mat tell her the story and she upbraids RAND for telling stories.

Ah, one of my favorite foreshadowing, oh duh, and wait WTF moments:

"The point is, you're an axe handle across the shoulders and as tall as an Aielman."

The WTF part is simply that everyone else that notes that Rand looks like he should be Aiel is startled by it, Thom just pulls it into his routine. (He does also note the eye color without equating it to the Aiel, though he doesn't mention the red hair.)

*Note: I do not hate Egwene, she does, however, have moments where she's bloody annoying.

OMG. I haven't hit page 50 yet. This reread is going to be much longer.

GonzoTheGreat
12-15-2012, 03:31 AM
So, have we decided if one of Rand's harem is Ilyena?
I think that RJ has decided none of them is. But all I can find in the interview database on that is this:
Random Crazy Lady
Is there any chance that Cadsuane might be Ilyena reborn?
Brandon Sanderson
I...wha?...First of all, I'm not going to answer that. Second of all...EWW! ... And you can quote me on that!

Odd, based on the description of the dead, LTT had small children. At 400 years old, I'd have expected his children to be grown. I'm not sure if that means channelers waite a long time to have kids or if they have multiple cycles. Or maybe LTT was just weird.
You mean, apart from being the maddest of the mad, he was also a bit weird?

But then, it is quite possible that some or all of those kids were his grand children or great grand children.

On the other hand, maybe Rand isn't the first Dragon incarnation with a harem.

Jalyn
12-15-2012, 11:26 AM
You mean, apart from being the maddest of the mad, he was also a bit weird?

But then, it is quite possible that some or all of those kids were his grand children or great grand children.

On the other hand, maybe Rand isn't the first Dragon incarnation with a harem.

Presumably he would have sired the kids before he became the "maddest of the mad." As for grandchildren:

His own sons and daughters, sprawled like broken dolls, play stilled forever"

GonzoTheGreat
12-15-2012, 11:50 AM
I dunno. Maybe he now and then stuffed the brats into a stasis box. That would seem a reasonable parenting approach, if one had stasis boxes available, and it would slow their aging enough for this purpose.

Jalyn
12-15-2012, 12:02 PM
I dunno. Maybe he now and then stuffed the brats into a stasis box. That would seem a reasonable parenting approach, if one had stasis boxes available, and it would slow their aging enough for this purpose.

Meh, you'd still have to deal with them when you pulled them back out. It totally defeats the purpose of "bury them in the backyard when they turn 13 and dig 'em up at 18." Er, I may come from a strange family.

GonzoTheGreat
12-15-2012, 12:21 PM
Meh, you'd still have to deal with them when you pulled them back out. It totally defeats the purpose of "bury them in the backyard when they turn 13 and dig 'em up at 18." Er, I may come from a strange family.
Yeah, but you have to make allowances. Both LTT and Ilyena were AS, and you know what those are like when it comes to common sense.