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Dom
01-06-2013, 10:52 PM
(NOTE FROM TAMYRLIN: This thread comes from a private forum I made available a few days before the release to those I knew had read the book. There are no spoiler tags, and a discussion of the entirety of A Memory of Light may follow. So expect full spoilers.)

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Has anyone found any clue in the book to explain the string of events that lead Alanna to become Moridin's captive?

I sort of assume Verin warned her that the Shadow knew of her bond and a Forsaken was keeping tap on her through Verin, thus Verin begged her to release it or go in hiding, but that like her warning for Caemlym it failed.

Perhaps quite wrongly, I concluded it's through his "bond" with Rand Moridin was able to locate her, and he simply captured the easiest of the four women he could use... as the other three would tip Rand something was up.

But there's so many other options... and questions.

The arc didn't really felt satisfying. Between all the tease about "ramifications", the talk that Verin's plan had redundancy measures and this was "a slight spoiler" to reveal it and Maria's festival of Verin RAFOs, I kinda had bigger expectations for small Verin reveals to play out, and it was a bit of a let down.

Galad's letter was never explained, making it sound like a red herring (was it even from Verin or was it, I don't know...a love letter from Berelain?), Mat didn't give one more thought to Verin's letter - it was a bit disappointing he never got to learn the price of his anti-AS paranoia this time around. The fact this raised no discussion since the prologue's release makes me think it was too underplayed, too subtle.

I saw nothing to explain the "redundancy" comment from Brandon.

I'm still puzzled about Rand's trick to spot DF... was this a ploy Verin's letter suggested to him... that he convinced DF he could spot them on sight to frighten as many of the hidden ones as possible to flee? Or did Rand think of that himself? It would have been nice for Rand to have some thoughts on Verin's letter.

And then there's Alanna, for which no back story at all is given, no more than the fact Rand didn't feel her capture is explained (did she choose to mask the bond?), no more than we have any clue why she didn't release the bond as soon as she got captured (didn't she think as long as Moridin thought he had her, she protected Min who isn't able to release the bond?), which with all the teases, made it look more like a badly plotted out arc than it probably should.

Another small disappointment is that Verin had left notes about what she puzzled out of the DO's plans, and that too was completely left hanging. Egwene never returned to that.

Any ideas or clues I've missed?

Terez
01-06-2013, 11:36 PM
You could say that things like Egwene knowing about Moridin, the title of the Green Ajah head, etc. came from Verin's notes, but I didn't notice anything explicit either.

I considered that Verin actually sent Alanna north on the Shadow's orders; she might have been trying to cover her tracks until she got to Egwene. But either way, the lack of resolution on any of those letters was disappointing, and takes a lot away from the awesome we assumed we were getting when we read TGS.

Dom
01-07-2013, 02:52 PM
You could say that things like Egwene knowing about Moridin, the title of the Green Ajah head, etc. came from Verin's notes, but I didn't notice anything explicit either.

Neither work well for me without an explicit mention it came from there. The BA hunters made it clear the Ajah secrets were not in the 13th depository either.

Rand not even showing a bit of surprise Egwene knows about Moridin was also a bit lame.

But Brandon sort of got me to his habit of breaking the knowledge barrier all the time at this point.


I considered that Verin actually sent Alanna north on the Shadow's orders; she might have been trying to cover her tracks until she got to Egwene.

You know, that would have been awesome, and add a dark twist, had Brandon actually found a way to reveal it.

Verin was still awesome though her side efforts failed or seemed to have failed. Her main contribution was massive - many less Dreadlords, many of those were still infiltrated and ready for Mesaana to lead... it would have been ugly.

Others whose contribution to the Shadow's defeat was truly massive is the Aelfinn and Eelfinn. Between what they gave Mat, Moiraine and Rand - even how it turned out with Lanfear, they made a major, major difference in the final outcome, in their own twisted way. They really screwed the Shadow all the way. We probably have to add "cutting Mat's tie to the Horn of Valere" to their deeds, though it's ambiguous.

fionwe1987
01-09-2013, 01:45 AM
Is it possible Alanna was simply kidnapped via a TP Gateway. No one felt her leave, and it was made out to be very mysterious. A TP gateway would have made excellent sense. Perhaps Alanna was planning to leave, per Verin's instructions, then got kidnapped before she could. That's the best explanation I can come up for the clues we do have.

But the complete absence of Verin was sad. Some hints here and there would have helped things along a lot, I think. And Mat not knowing about Caemlyn was just too bad.

Karistina
01-09-2013, 12:18 PM
Others whose contribution to the Shadow's defeat was truly massive is the Aelfinn and Eelfinn. Between what they gave Mat, Moiraine and Rand - even how it turned out with Lanfear, they made a major, major difference in the final outcome, in their own twisted way. They really screwed the Shadow all the way. We probably have to add "cutting Mat's tie to the Horn of Valere" to their deeds, though it's ambiguous.

That wasn't ambiguous at all. My husband took the book to work with him today, so I can't look up the passage, but one of the Heroes of the Horn tells Mat that he didn't die when he was hung from the Tree. It was something he didn't remember, something he had to thank Rand for... It was when Rand balefired Rahvin. Mat and Aviendha had both died under the wall that fell, until Rand burned Rahvin out of the Pattern before that happened.

Terez
01-09-2013, 12:22 PM
That wasn't ambiguous at all.
It was in the context of what Dom was actually saying.

My husband took the book to work with him today, so I can't look up the passage, but one of the Heroes of the Horn tells Mat that he didn't die when he was hung from the Tree. It was something he didn't remember, something he had to thank Rand for... It was when Rand balefired Rahvin. Mat and Aviendha had both died under the wall that fell, until Rand burned Rahvin out of the Pattern before that happened.
We know all that, and have known it for years.

Ozymandias
01-09-2013, 12:28 PM
I'm still puzzled about Rand's trick to spot DF... was this a ploy Verin's letter suggested to him... that he convinced DF he could spot them on sight to frighten as many of the hidden ones as possible to flee? Or did Rand think of that himself? It would have been nice for Rand to have some thoughts on Verin's letter.


I thought Moridin explained this? That he uses the Power to hear their heartbeats speed up, presumably out of nervousness? The weakness to it is obviously if someone is a consummate actor and quite confident, they won't be caught. But I believe its safe to say Weiramon and Anaiyella don't fall in that category.

Which means Roedran is still possible, since he didn't appear after the Sharans showed up!

Karistina
01-09-2013, 12:30 PM
We know all that, and have known it for years.

Well, it's been argued that Mat has actually died and lived again more than once. Mat himself wondered if hanging from the tree counted as dying. Now we have a Hero confirming that he wasn't really dead that time.

Back in the day when I blogged about LOST, I had so many theories about the character of Charlie and his parallels to Mat. I see now that Charlie died way more times than Mat before his final death. :)

Terez
01-09-2013, 12:35 PM
Well, it's been argued that Mat has actually died and lived again more than once. Mat himself wondered if hanging from the tree counted as dying. Now we have a Hero confirming that he wasn't really dead that time.
I say we've known it for years because RJ personally confirmed it multiple times.

Dom
01-09-2013, 12:47 PM
I thought Moridin explained this? That he uses the Power to hear their heartbeats speed up, presumably out of nervousness?

Yes, but part of the reasons why I would have liked to know the content of Rand's letter is that I wonder if it's a trick Verin came up with in her hunt for the BA - part of the same bag of tricks she came up with and wrote down in her notes (Egwene used another of those tricks with Sheriam).

It doesn't have to be Verin, I just would have liked to know what exactly she left to Rand, for that but primarly because I'm curious what kind of "last words" she left him, how she phrased it all, if something in there reflected what she told Egwene about Rand and the DO etc.

Brandon/Maria's teasings about Verin made me expect that sort of things were coming, so I built up expectations Brandon didn't meet.

Dom
01-09-2013, 12:48 PM
I say we've known it for years because RJ personally confirmed it multiple times.

But we'll never know sure if the Eelfinn brought him close enough to actual death to sever his tie to the Horn.

Dom
01-09-2013, 12:51 PM
That wasn't ambiguous at all.

Not what I meant. I know to die and live again happened with Rahvin, RJ confirmed that years ago.

Terez
01-09-2013, 12:58 PM
But we'll never know sure if the Eelfinn brought him close enough to actual death to sever his tie to the Horn.
Eh, I'd say actual death would be necessary. And RJ did say he hung there 'long enough to be almost dead'. Of course, there was a hedging argument for the balefire, too. Technically, Mat's death never happened.

Davian93
01-09-2013, 12:59 PM
I tend to think that Roedran and the Murandians stopped showing up after that simply because Brandon forgot about them.

Dom
01-09-2013, 01:07 PM
Eh, I'd say actual death would be necessary. And RJ did say he hung there 'long enough to be almost dead'. Of course, there was a hedging argument for the balefire, too. Technically, Mat's death never happened.

And that's what is ambiguous. Did Mat come close enough in Rhuidean to sever his bond to the Horn? Why didn't balefire undo the severing of the bond while it undid everything else? It's ambiguous but in this case I tend to think it's in a good way. I always believed it's not a bad thing at all RJ set limits like this to how much we could understand of the world's rules.

Dom
01-09-2013, 01:09 PM
I tend to think that Roedran and the Murandians stopped showing up after that simply because Brandon forgot about them.

Part of the arguments used in anti-Roedred theories was that it was foreshadowed the Murandians might sit out the Last Battle, like they remained in their corner for most of the series. Even Elaida was more concerned with how she'd go down in history as the one who triumped over the Shadow than anything else.

Terez
01-09-2013, 01:11 PM
Why didn't balefire undo the severing of the bond while it undid everything else?
Everything else except for memory. That's one of my favorite aspects of the balefire paradox.

Dom
01-09-2013, 01:13 PM
Everything else except for memory. That's one of my favorite aspects of the balefire paradox.

One of mine too.

LoialT
01-11-2013, 10:42 AM
I had assumed that this really was some newfound ability that Rand had post-epiphany. He does it through the fact that Darkfriends seem unable to look at him, he glows too brightly now or something, like we saw in Maradon where Tenobia's uncle (I forget his name) claws out his eyes and his wife commits suicide rather than suffer Rand's burning light.

Then with Weiramon it's his eyes that Rand looks at. It's also how he thinks to try to uncover Roedran as Demandred: by looking deep into his eyes, to see a resonance with his soul, I guess.

I saw Moridin's "No, impossible! But, yes, maybe there is some mundane explanation!" as the kind of rationalizing away impossibility, or greater power that RJ loved in the series. The powerful characters like the Forsaken could just never believe in their own inferiority.

Dom
01-11-2013, 02:17 PM
like we saw in Maradon where Tenobia's uncle (I forget his name) claws out his eyes and his wife commits suicide rather than suffer Rand's burning light.

If the fires of heaven seemed to fall on me like it's Judgement Day or something and I was serving the devil, and had heard what happened to Weiramon, I might have reacted that way too.

Rand made a direct allusion (in his thoughts) to his parlor "tricks" during a conversation with Elayne. One of those tricks is the Voice, another is the pretense he can spot DF on mere sight.

It's... extremely clever. What he did to Weiramon was meant to scare all the hidden DF away from him. It seems to have worked. What I would very, very much want to know is if Verin suggested the trick to Rand, because she's faced something like that testing herself once...

It didn't fool Moridin who is no stranger to those parlor tricks: he uses the very same trick to pretend he can read the mind of his DF pawns.

Grey Ajah
02-10-2013, 01:30 PM
(NOTE FROM TAMYRLIN: This thread comes from a private forum I made available a few days before the release to those I knew had read the book. There are no spoiler tags, and a discussion of the entirety of A Memory of Light may follow. So expect full spoilers.)

---

Has anyone found any clue in the book to explain the string of events that lead Alanna to become Moridin's captive?

And then there's Alanna, for which no back story at all is given, no more than the fact Rand didn't feel her capture is explained (did she choose to mask the bond?), no more than we have any clue why she didn't release the bond as soon as she got captured (didn't she think as long as Moridin thought he had her, she protected Min who isn't able to release the bond?), which with all the teases, made it look more like a badly plotted out arc than it probably should.

I believe it was written at some point early in AMoL prior to the Last Battle chapter and Rands visit to SG that Rand felt through the bond that Alanna was in the far north. Although he may not have noted her capture - he did notice that she was in the SG area.

Doesn't respond to your other questions but perhaps Rand just assumed that Alanna as a Green sister fought with Ituraldes army and that would also explain why he didn't react to her wounds or feelings. Besides, Rand would feel similar sensations from all of the bonds when the Last Battle had begun.

I also had hoped to find more answers to Verins letter in AMoL.

Cortar
02-10-2013, 02:08 PM
Down they went. An odd sensation came to mind. One of the women was in trouble. Was it Elayne? Aviendha? He could not tell. The warping of this place affected the bond. He was moving through time differently than they, and he lost his sense of where they were. He could only feel that one was in pain.


Not that its much but Im pretty sure this is referring to Alanna.

Neilbert
02-10-2013, 04:29 PM
If the fires of heaven seemed to fall on me like it's Judgement Day or something and I was serving the devil, and had heard what happened to Weiramon, I might have reacted that way too.

....

It didn't fool Moridin who is no stranger to those parlor tricks: he uses the very same trick to pretend he can read the mind of his DF pawns.

This ignores too much I feel. While the parlor trick idea has definite merit, the fact that whatshisname clawed his eyes out while he could not even see Rand, and further had no reason to even believe that Rand was in the area is just too strange to ignore. Jumping out a window makes a sort of sense if you are a darkfriend and your chickens are coming to roost, clawing out your eyes makes absolutely no sense whatsoever unless something has shattered your sanity. When you factor in that matching Rands gaze seemed to cause Weiramon physical discomfort, something must be going on. The man is a darkfriend High Lord of Tear, looking someone powerful in the eye and lying with a straight face should not be difficult.

Cortar
02-10-2013, 08:14 PM
This ignores too much I feel. While the parlor trick idea has definite merit, the fact that whatshisname clawed his eyes out while he could not even see Rand, and further had no reason to even believe that Rand was in the area is just too strange to ignore. Jumping out a window makes a sort of sense if you are a darkfriend and your chickens are coming to roost, clawing out your eyes makes absolutely no sense whatsoever unless something has shattered your sanity.

He thought the battle was won and his side was victorious. The fact that Rand came and destroyed that notion is powerful enough to cause an emotional outburst that ended in him clawing his eyes out. Oedipus did when he learned what he had done.


When you factor in that matching Rands gaze seemed to cause Weiramon physical discomfort, something must be going on. The man is a darkfriend High Lord of Tear, looking someone powerful in the eye and lying with a straight face should not be difficult.

Keeping a straight face and keeping your heart beat even are completely different things.

Neilbert
02-11-2013, 12:00 AM
He thought the battle was won and his side was victorious. The fact that Rand came and destroyed that notion is powerful enough to cause an emotional outburst that ended in him clawing his eyes out. Oedipus did when he learned what he had done.

He was locked in his room the whole battle, and his window was facing the wrong direction. That he was not in any position to witness Rands megapwnage was brought up both in the scene itself, and the post that you quoted. You are making assumptions that are flat out contradicted in the texts.

Oedipus killed his father and had sex with his mother. That is a little more emptionally traumatizing than being on the losing side of a military conflict and facing certain execution. Hitler shot himself. Saddam hid in a hole in the ground. Being driven insane and clawing your eyes out is a completely unrealistic reaction to the circumstances.

Keeping a straight face and keeping your heart beat even are completely different things.

Standing on your head and doing jumping jacks are completely different things. Flowers and unicorns are completely different things. Rocks and caviar are completely different things. What's your point?

E: thought of a way to address this concisely. If Morridin was actually certain that Rand had listened for Weiramons heartbeat, then he wouldn't have asked the question.

Cortar
02-11-2013, 02:18 AM
He was locked in his room the whole battle, and his window was facing the wrong direction. That he was not in any position to witness Rands megapwnage was brought up both in the scene itself, and the post that you quoted. You are making assumptions that are flat out contradicted in the texts.[quote]

Contradicted? How so?

[quote]
Oedipus killed his father and had sex with his mother. That is a little more emptionally traumatizing than being on the losing side of a military conflict and facing certain execution. Hitler shot himself. Saddam hid in a hole in the ground. Being driven insane and clawing your eyes out is a completely unrealistic reaction to the circumstances.

In a land where Honor and Duty is everything. To come out as a darkfriend might be like finding out you had slept with your own mother...



Standing on your head and doing jumping jacks are completely different things. Flowers and unicorns are completely different things. Rocks and caviar are completely different things. What's your point?

Yes, and the two things I am comparing are not apples and oranges. Rand was listening to Weiramon's heartbeat to tell if he was lying or not. He was not watching for a facial tick like you suggested.


E: thought of a way to address this concisely. If Morridin was actually certain that Rand had listened for Weiramons heartbeat, then he wouldn't have asked the question.

As eloquent as it sounds, this was probably Brandon's way of settling the debate.

Neilbert
02-11-2013, 02:30 AM
Contradicted? How so?

Seriously dude?

Rand was listening to Weiramon's heartbeat to tell if he was lying or not.

Support your claim.

He was not watching for a facial tick like you suggested.

If you think that is what I suggested you have some serious reading comprehension issues. In fact, everything you have posted in reply to me has shown absolutely zero comprehension. I'm putting you on my ignore list now. Ta!

Cortar
02-11-2013, 03:09 AM
Seriously dude?
You say that my assumption that they clawed their eyes out because of the losing battle is contradicted... How? Just because they were in a room that wasn't facing that particular scene doesn't mean that its impossible for them to know how the battle is progressing. To suggest otherwise is just lunacy.


Support your claim.


I don't have the book with me, but he was bluffing that he could detect DFs on site. His conversation with Moridin confirms it.


If you think that is what I suggested you have some serious reading comprehension issues.

You are suggesting that Weiramon's ability or inability to keep a straight face has anything to do with his lying or not. And its irrelevant because Rand doesn't have some super magic ability to instantly detect DFs.

In fact, everything you have posted in reply to me has shown absolutely zero comprehension. I'm putting you on my ignore list now. Ta!

Then why even bother responding? Why even bother telling me? People always pull this as if its supposed to hurt the other person. Good, you ignore me, I win!

GonzoTheGreat
02-11-2013, 04:17 AM
Yes, and the two things I am comparing are not apples and oranges. Rand was listening to Weiramon's heartbeat to tell if he was lying or not. He was not watching for a facial tick like you suggested.
That is not the only possible way in which Rand could have done it:
Fain paced; he had to move. ... It was the most remarkable thing about Darkfriends. There should be nothing to single out a Darkfriend from anyone else, but of late he found he could tell one at a glance, even someone who had only thought of swearing to the Shadow, as if they had a sooty mark on their foreheads.
Can you prove that Rand could not possibly detect whatever it is that Fain can detect when he looks at a DF?

Terez
02-11-2013, 07:19 AM
Yeah, that's easy: Fain can tell them on sight, while Rand had to line up all the High Lords and Ladies, and clearly didn't know for sure Weiramon was a Darkfriend until he put him personally on the spot.

GonzoTheGreat
02-11-2013, 07:29 AM
So Fain is a bit better at it. Big deal.
I'm sure Rand could have learned too,if he had just crucified a couple of Myrddraal.

fdsaf3
02-11-2013, 01:19 PM
Then why even bother responding? Why even bother telling me? People always pull this as if its supposed to hurt the other person. Good, you ignore me, I win!

Once enough people do it, I think you're supposed to conclude that the style of posting you have adopted drives people to putting you on their ignore list. From this, you should (assuming you desire to be a contributing member to this rather isolated community) try and at least make yourself tolerable to everyone else.

Cortar
02-11-2013, 02:07 PM
Once enough people do it, I think you're supposed to conclude that the style of posting you have adopted drives people to putting you on their ignore list. From this, you should (assuming you desire to be a contributing member to this rather isolated community) try and at least make yourself tolerable to everyone else.

Only two people have ever said this to ME. (one was trolling and this guy doesn't want to believe what the book is telling him). Most of the time I see OTHER people saying it to OTHER people.

fionwe1987
02-11-2013, 03:45 PM
Once enough people do it, I think you're supposed to conclude that the style of posting you have adopted drives people to putting you on their ignore list. From this, you should (assuming you desire to be a contributing member to this rather isolated community) try and at least make yourself tolerable to everyone else.
Its pretty ridiculous. This line of reasoning implies that the person being ignored cares enough that you won't respond to him that he'll change the way he posts. Which requires whoever is doing the ignoring to have a pretty bombastic opinion of themselves. If you feel having a conversation with someone is too tiresome and not productive, just stop responding. It says nothing good about a person that he/she feels comfortable entirely closing off opinions from one source that irritates them.

fdsaf3
02-11-2013, 05:01 PM
Its pretty ridiculous. This line of reasoning implies that the person being ignored cares enough that you won't respond to him that he'll change the way he posts. Which requires whoever is doing the ignoring to have a pretty bombastic opinion of themselves. If you feel having a conversation with someone is too tiresome and not productive, just stop responding. It says nothing good about a person that he/she feels comfortable entirely closing off opinions from one source that irritates them.

And what does it say about a person if multiple people go out of their way to say "you're being so much of a jackass that I'm ignoring you" and the person in question doesn't change their behavior? Answer this straight up, without your usual nitpicking and contrarian "argue about everything" mentality. As far as I'm concerned, if you have someone like Cortar who continually makes the same kind of inflammatory posts and doesn't change despite being told that his posting is causing otherwise reasonable posters to ignore him, he's a troll.

There are good reasons to put someone on an ignore list. If Cortar has any notion to improve the quality of his posts, then knowing he's pushed someone to put him on ignore might incentivize him to clean up his act. And yes, at times the frustration of dealing with someone like that boils over. It's interesting to me that you rush to defend someone who is, at least in my opinion, a pretty blatant troll. Not surprising for someone who has to nitpick and argue everything to death, I suppose. Birds of a feather and all of that.

fionwe1987
02-11-2013, 06:08 PM
And what does it say about a person if multiple people go out of their way to say "you're being so much of a jackass that I'm ignoring you" and the person in question doesn't change their behavior? Answer this straight up, without your usual nitpicking and contrarian "argue about everything" mentality. As far as I'm concerned, if you have someone like Cortar who continually makes the same kind of inflammatory posts and doesn't change despite being told that his posting is causing otherwise reasonable posters to ignore him, he's a troll.

There are good reasons to put someone on an ignore list. If Cortar has any notion to improve the quality of his posts, then knowing he's pushed someone to put him on ignore might incentivize him to clean up his act. And yes, at times the frustration of dealing with someone like that boils over. It's interesting to me that you rush to defend someone who is, at least in my opinion, a pretty blatant troll. Not surprising for someone who has to nitpick and argue everything to death, I suppose. Birds of a feather and all of that.
Since when is arguing everything a vice? Its funny that what is expected of scientist and hoped for in politicians is something that's apparently reviled in messageboard posters of all things. When I believe something, I argue it, and yes, I'll nitpick little details. Because its the little details that can make me look at the entire debate from a new perspective.

Its hilarious that the childish practice of ignoring something you don't like is being promoted to some kind of lofty act by you. In the series, this excellent practice is the hallmark of such wonderful personalities like Elaida. What happened to saying "agree to disagree, and lets move on to other things"? Ignore list, indeed!

fdsaf3
02-11-2013, 06:32 PM
To my mind, the hallmark of a troll is the inability or refusal to answer or address a specific challenge and continue along a predetermined course of action. In this case, you ignore my simple question and make up some strawman-ish point about why it's good to argue about something...or something.

Keep on keepin' on, I guess.

fionwe1987
02-11-2013, 06:50 PM
To my mind, the hallmark of a troll is the inability or refusal to answer or address a specific challenge and continue along a predetermined course of action.
And what does one do when the challenge is specifically addressed, but someone is just not seeing it? The only challenge I could read in your post was "what does it say about a person if multiple people go out of their way to say "you're being so much of a jackass that I'm ignoring you" and the person in question doesn't change their behavior?"

You wanted me to answer that without my "argue everything" mentality, which I took to mean you saying that arguing everything is precisely the kind of behavior you want changed. I refuse to accept that premise, and explained it. I think it says nothing at all about a person that they don't take bombastic words from a random stranger on the internet to change anything about themselves. Seems completely healthy to me, and I'd encourage it if anyone came to me asking if they should alter their behavior because someone with a screen name said so.

In this case, you ignore my simple question and make up some strawman-ish point about why it's good to argue about something...or something.
A straw-man requires me to make your argument for you first. I specifically responded to this statement:

"without your usual nitpicking and contrarian "argue about everything" mentality."

Am I wrong in assuming that when you referred to my "usual nitpicking and contrarian "argue about everything mentality", you weren't complimenting it?

Keep on keepin' on, I guess.
Sure. And keep up with the theatrics. I can see an addition to the ignore list coming...

Marie Curie 7
02-11-2013, 06:58 PM
All the commentary regarding putting people on ignore, trolls, etc., is WAY OFF TOPIC. Please knock it off!

Let's get back to discussing Wheel of Time related stuff on this forum. Thanks.

Cortar
02-11-2013, 07:10 PM
Thank you fionwe.

Anyways back to the topic, well first back to the thread about Alanna that diverted from said topic. Does anyone else get the feeling that this:


Down they went. An odd sensation came to mind. One of the women was in trouble. Was it Elayne? Aviendha? He could not tell. The warping of this place affected the bond. He was moving through time differently than they, and he lost his sense of where they were. He could only feel that one was in pain.


Is actually referring to Alanna? I wasn't able to get a good timeline going so I don't know which of the Rand-harem could have been hurt at this time.

The Unreasoner
02-11-2013, 07:51 PM
I'll make a few quick points on the 'eyes' stuff, if I may.



Moridin probably has a very good idea of how Moridin picks DFs out of a lineup, and of how Moridin would find out if there are people in the area. Powers that he does not understand or anticipate likely don't come into his reckoning.
The Maradon DF didn't just pull his eyes out. He mentioned 'light' as a contributing factor, light with no obvious source (and it's not the battle, for those of you as narrow minded as Moridin.
Rand, while clearly using more than a few 'parlor tricks', does have other powers not easily put under the ta'veren/channeling/trick umbrellas.
Anyway, Rand confirmed nothing to Moridin. In fact, if it was as simple as Moridin thought, he had no reason to bring it up at all. Rand wouldn't have cared if he knew. The scene read more like Moridin was afraid he might be wrong, and was seeking reassurance. After all, if Rand does have some unknown powers, Moridin may be wrong in thinking that the Shadow's victory was inevitable, and would begin to have some serious anxiety and doubt.
As Rand and the DO both note, Moridin is not a Top Tier world-changer, but a pawn of greater powers.

Anyway, I think it was more than a parlor trick, but I've been proven right in so many TL debates now, I couldn't care less if people agree.

Dom
02-11-2013, 07:51 PM
Is actually referring to Alanna?

Obviously. We don't need the timeline. He had barely set foot in SG and that's when his timeline started to divert from the others (it corresponds to hours after the eclipse, maybe a day).

Who but Alanna was hurt this early?

Rand was walking toward the Pit and had just been spotted by Shai'tan, that has to be when Moridin or SH cut Alanna.