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Terez
01-08-2013, 07:00 AM
I figured I'd start a thread for real time reactions to the book. Be sure to use spoiler tags for reactions and responses (like quote tags, but with spoiler instead of quote) and mark your page number. (or chapter if you're listening by audiobook) Please be good so no one gets spoiled past what they're reading, but also, enter at your own risk.

This is not a spoiler:

SNAPE KILLS DEMANDRED!!!!1

Davian93
01-08-2013, 07:06 AM
I reread the Rand/Mat pissing war conversation again last night and it was and will likely always be the worst WoT writing ever put on a page. It is completely out of character for both of them and neither one sounds anything like their actual voice. Its is pure Brandonism like most of his dumb "comedy" duos in his books and it completely destroyed that scene. In addition, the scene/resolution between Rand/Tuon was pretty forced and also pretty out of character.

I award him no points and may God have mercy on his soul.

Terez
01-08-2013, 07:10 AM
You didn't give a page number, dork. To help out people who might want to read it, he's talking mostly about chapter 17 which ends on p343.

Davian93
01-08-2013, 07:11 AM
You didn't give a page number, dork. To help out people who might want to read it, he's talking mostly about chapter 17 which ends on p343.

I'm at work and my book is 11 miles away at my house. Sorry. I just wanted to participate in the thread as that scene really pissees me off and actually pissed me off more the 2nd time around.

Terez
01-08-2013, 07:14 AM
For some reason it pissed me off less the second time. Which is not to say it's not still the worst thing ever written in a WoT book. I think my first reaction to it was just that bad. As I said to a friend at the time, "Why does Brandon hate us so much??"

But let's not focus on the negative. :p

Davian93
01-08-2013, 07:18 AM
Venting is healthy for the soul. Also, for that second time around, you must have been in the acceptance phase of the grief cycle.

On a positive note:

Page 431 (I think), I guess the VOICE at the end of tEotW was the Creator after all...I was right, I was right, I WAS RIGHT!!!

Terez
01-08-2013, 07:21 AM
You and every other idiot who ever read WoT. It was still dumb.

Davian93
01-08-2013, 07:23 AM
You and every other idiot who ever read WoT. It was still dumb.

I disagree. RJ always said the Creator wouldnt take an active role, he never said he wouldn't talk to his Champion briefly. Of all the "Let me prove this theory right or wrong moments in the books" this was one of the least obnoxious I'd say."

Terez
01-08-2013, 07:24 AM
It was dumb because it was unnecessary and pointless. And it was obnoxious on several levels.

Davian93
01-08-2013, 07:27 AM
It was dumb because it was unnecessary and pointless. And it was obnoxious on several levels.

Funny, if I were making a Top 10 obnoxious moments list, it wouldnt even be close to making it. I dont know if thats an indictment of the book or just that the scene wasn't really that bad.

Terez
01-08-2013, 07:30 AM
(Full book spoilers.)
It was just another instance where something that could have been interesting turned out to be trite. Almost as bad was the conflation of good/evil and free will, which gratefully was not the key to Rand's task for all it was written as if it were.

neurotopia
01-08-2013, 11:39 AM
OMG they killed

Dumbledore!!!! Oh wait wrong book. :p Please don't ban me, somebody had to do it...

Tedman
01-08-2013, 01:01 PM
Venting is healthy for the soul. Also, for that second time around, you must have been in the acceptance phase of the grief cycle.

On a positive note:

Page 431 (I think), I guess the VOICE at the end of tEotW was the Creator after all...I was right, I was right, I WAS RIGHT!!!

I choose BUSINESS ETHICS.

Anyways:
that clearly could have been written better, I thought that was the DO on page 431, and he is comforted by the fact that its time for the end, he knows the voice. If that really is resolution for the last chapter all caps in EOTW, then I don't get anything. The DO sounds exactly like the "creator". Hes not angry at Rand, he just wants what he wants.

I'm really happy I read that as the DO speaking to Rand before he entered, because its stupid as hell otherwise.

Davian93
01-08-2013, 01:17 PM
Problem with it being the DO is that Rand had the dagger that blocked him from the DO's eyes...and the DO is surprised to see him a little bit later in the book. Why would he be surprised if he had just spoken to him?

Dom
01-08-2013, 01:20 PM
It's not as bad as that, if a bit trite.

In TEOTW, the Creator made it clear to Rand: he was chosen, but the choice was his to make. he told Rand that it was about a choice from the start. Rand has come to the time and place where the final choice was to be made. The Creator merely acknowledged that. RJ always hinted that the Creator's non-interference didn't mean he didn't care. The Dark One is about Chaos and compulsion of his servants, the Creator offers Creation a choice between going on or following Shai'tan, cyclically, through the Dragon soul. He didn't interfere, he didn't try to manipulate Rand. In the end he told Rand "I'm watching, and I'll abide by your final choice". I'm with those who always believed the voice had been the Creator's, so this wasn't really a surprise. It brought the matter it was Rand's choice all along full circle, that's all.

Tedman
01-08-2013, 01:31 PM
Reading over at DM about:

the finding DF trick. If it is a trick with the heartbeat, explain to me what all the watery eyes, and cannot look at Rand stuff was about then. Also the Maradon city leader plucking his eyes out during the battle.

When I read that, I thought he used the heartbeat in conjunction with other signs to spot them and then came close where his unique soul was too much for them, since the DO lays so heavily on the pattern now and his Ta'veren nature was almost purely good.

Ozymandias
01-08-2013, 02:35 PM
No spoiler here. But my real-time reaction to it after finishing it this morning (at work, natch)... dazed. Devoured it, gonna need a longer, more introspective reread, but I am literally walking around with a haze over my vision.

Which might be equal parts not sleeping last night? I'll go with the more romantic notion of a powerfully written story.

Jokeslayer
01-08-2013, 04:59 PM
My real-time reaction to this thread is that the page/chapter number should be outside the spoiler tags.

I reread the Rand/Mat pissing war conversation again last night and it was and will likely always be the worst WoT writing ever put on a page. It is completely out of character for both of them and neither one sounds anything like their actual voice. Its is pure Brandonism like most of his dumb "comedy" duos in his books and it completely destroyed that scene. In addition, the scene/resolution between Rand/Tuon was pretty forced and also pretty out of character.

I award him no points and may God have mercy on his soul.

Up to ch18

I feel like the spirit of the scene is fine, even if the execution is not that great.

I also thought the Merrilor resolution was pretty forced/convenient.

Up to p300/ch15

On a more positive note, I like Androl and that gateway trick.

WinespringBrother
01-08-2013, 06:26 PM
Prediction: (Average Rating: 2.5)

The Lord of Bashere, Tyr and Sidona is either a darkfriend or a dupe of Graendal's.


Predictor:
WinespringBrother
2010-08-10

rand
01-08-2013, 09:43 PM
Ch. 2, p. 104
I'm glad Ewan Finngar makes an important, if brief, appearance here. :p:D

connabard
01-08-2013, 10:38 PM
Dreadbane LOL. It didn't bother me, but wowwwwwwwwwww, corny. Cheesier than Cheetos.

yks 6nnetu hing
01-09-2013, 01:36 AM
I hadn't read the entire prologue, nor the released materials from chapters 1,2 and 11, so, some of this may already be discussed in length previously:

Prologue:
Sandip: isn't that the guy that took all those amazing photos at the last JCon?

up to page 180; random thoughts:
There's a lot of Androl and Pevara, and thankfully no Mat (yet). The double-bond mind read thing is weird, though in a way logical if we look at the strong bond between Elayne and Birgitte; and theirs is strong mostly because they're both female and thus understand each other's minds better.

Lind is Linda. Even *I* got that.

Moiraine's re-introduction to the group seemed awkward.

I don't like the way Egwene was written during the negotiations scene in Merrilor. Or rather, it felt like she and Rand kept talking past each other, both incapable of getting to the point; and so when the Seals question was resolved, it didn't feel like they actually agreed on anything (even though it was what they both wanted. The seals get broken and Egwene decides on the timing) but it felt more like Moiraine did a Jedi mind trick and suddenly all was good.

Looks like the Pillars visions might not be solid future after all, though we kind of suspected that already. I'm really hoping that we find out if Bair 1) could go through them the way Aviendha could and 2) what she saw.

ETA: Pevara calls Androl "idiot" when she's frustrated with him. It's clear from the context that she doesn't think he's literally an idiot so this poses a dilemma: can AS curse and lie? Is she a Black? Or was it a mistake. I think it was a mistake.

Terez
01-09-2013, 05:46 AM
I hadn't read the entire prologue, nor the released materials from chapters 1,2 and 11, so, some of this may already be discussed in length previously:

Prologue:
Sandip: isn't that the guy that took all those amazing photos at the last JCon?
Yes.

up to page 180; random thoughts:

Pevara calls Androl "idiot" when she's frustrated with him. It's clear from the context that she doesn't think he's literally an idiot so this poses a dilemma: can AS curse and lie? Is she a Black? Or was it a mistake. I think it was a mistake.
I think it makes a difference that she's not actually speaking, but at the same time, sarcasm is allowed, so why not jibes? RJ said the intent to deceive is an important factor, and when he can feel her emotions, it would be difficult for her to deceive him.

yks 6nnetu hing
01-09-2013, 05:59 AM
Yes.
cool!

I think it makes a difference that she's not actually speaking, but at the same time, sarcasm is allowed, so why not jibes? RJ said the intent to deceive is an important factor, and when he can feel her emotions, it would be difficult for her to deceive him.

but she is actually speaking in that bit. However, as you asy, she's not intending to deceive, she's upset with Androl. I do wonder if she could express a lie in her thoughts though. They can write lies, can't they?

Terez
01-09-2013, 06:17 AM
Spoiler:
but she is actually speaking in that bit. However, as you asy, she's not intending to deceive, she's upset with Androl. I do wonder if she could express a lie in her thoughts though. They can write lies, can't they?
Moiraine implied that they can't write lies. That's probably why she mentioned Alviarin (and Verin) to Rand in her letter. She'd already caught Verin in one lie, when she told the boys that Moiraine had sent her, and she wasn't foolish enough to believe Alviarin's letter was sincere.

KilMichaelMcC
01-09-2013, 10:55 AM
Ch. 2, p. 104
I'm glad Ewan Finngar makes an important, if brief, appearance here. :p:D



Ewan Finngar? It's Evin, that's Evin Vinchova.

The Unreasoner
01-09-2013, 03:57 PM
So I just started, so trying to avoid reading too many comments. But I'm at the war planning scene w/Elayne post-Merrilor. Actually kind of pleased how that worked out) although there are tons of questions.


Not one person asked 'where the fuck is Mat?' when Rand wanted a leader?
Cadsuane (my favorite AS after Nyn) is just sitting there? Moiraine or Egwene didn't kidnap her on the spot to figure out her deal?
No one said: 'hey, lets just put a killing ward around Caemlyn with the channelers to maintain it, instead of trying to take the city (which is hard, according to urban warfare 101)
No follow up questions to the 'something' going on at the Black Tower? reported by Perrin? 'Hey, weapons, we could use your help! We're busy! BRB Oh, ok. ttyl...'
Huge fan-pandering with Rand checking out Roedran. I wanted to smack someone.

*deep breath*
/venting

Dom
01-09-2013, 04:12 PM
She'd already caught Verin in one lie, when she told the boys that Moiraine had sent her, and she wasn't foolish enough to believe Alviarin's letter was sincere.


Hmmm... Moiraine clearly didn't trust Verin much, but I really doubt she caught the lie. Her whole reaction suggests Verin had given a credible explanation to Moiraine, and Moiraine "knew" that the naive younglings didn't hear "the truth they thought they heard".. which Moiraine wasn't about to tell them straight out: you just got manipulated by an AS! She sounded exasperated, as if she would have preferred they didn't ask that.

If Moiraine has such big doubts about Verin, she would not have trusted her with the Horn of Valere and would also have sent some warning to Siuan.

I'm sure Moiraine was convinced Verin was up to something, something that eluded her and worried her, enough to warn Rand to be cautious of her. But I don't think she suspected Verin was BA. I think she stood pretty much in the same spot we were: Verin was shifty enough, but then her actions known by Moiraine just didn't make much sense if she were BA.. so it had to be.. something else.

Terez
01-09-2013, 04:24 PM
Hmmm... Moiraine clearly didn't trust Verin much, but I really doubt she caught the lie. Her whole reaction suggests Verin had given a credible explanation to Moiraine, and Moiraine "knew" that the naive younglings didn't hear "the truth they thought they heard".
That's not what I got from her reaction at all. I think she was suspicious of Verin and didn't quite know what to do about it, so she relayed those suspicions to Rand in her letter.

I don't think she suspected Verin was BA.
I'm sure she suspected. But being certain is a different story.

Dom
01-09-2013, 04:37 PM
I'm sure she suspected. But being certain is a different story.

I can't see her letting the Horn of Valere go if she suspected. Too big a risk. She suspected Verin was up to something, but she didn't think she was BA. No more than Siuan did, but she also found Verin shifty.

Ahhh.. that makes a nice missing AMOL scene... Rand telling her about Verin's letter and Moiraine sharing her Verin suspicions.

Terez
01-09-2013, 04:46 PM
I can't see her letting the Horn of Valere go if she suspected. Too big a risk.
She didn't learn about the lie until after Verin was gone.

Ieyasu
01-09-2013, 07:18 PM
things that bugged me, in no particular order from all over the book:

i kept waiting for Demandred to be a bad ass... never saw that happen... this? this was the Shadow's ultimate bad ass? we waited 14 books for this?

kept waiting for the big 'High Ranking DarkFriend' reveal... fucking Aravine? really?

hinderstap zombies...hated every single appearance of them in both books.

hated mat actually asking if he was a hero... and receiving the answer.

double bond was lame... and magically breaking the system and allowing pevara to channel her own gateway while linked in a man controled circle... wtf was that?

Other than the eye patch, we never heard/saw Matt bitching about depth perception etc due to his eye loss

pretty much everything to do with pevara/androl

the 18 (exagerating) two sentence cut scenes with the trollocs reaching for olver... just blow the damn horn already!

why does everyone know everything about everyone?

im sick of ppl saying stupid battle plans are brilliant... no they arent.

so what were the questions/answers moiraine got or did they just not matter?

why the fuck is rand in moridins body? how?

i hated that there was so much fansite bullshit... pretty much everything with gateways pissed me off... the bodyswap pissed me all... rand thinking about demandred/murandy for the first time...

wtf was up with nikomi? utter retarded plot line... the whole future visions thing was gayer than emarin.

it bugged me how long it took fain to show up... but i loved his death

fucking elayne.. wanted her to die...

why did alanna wait so long to sever her bond?

hated the fact that every bad guy channeler was suddenly bad ass uber... even the secret ones

theres more but ill stop here for now...

things i loved:
moiraine walking in to the negotians.

unlike most ppl here, i liked the bragging fight.

i loved that rand survived, but hate that he just randomly swapped bodies with no reason or explanation or purpose explained... so what is he now? what is the magic he used to light his pipe?

pretty much every single thing about Lan.

loved the fact that the red aiel played very little part...hated that whole plot line

loved the tam/rand duel

theres more but im taking a break

Davian93
01-09-2013, 07:21 PM
I agree with everything you hated...you really summarized its utter crappiness well.

Have Rep!


Also, the bragging fight sucked donkey balls...sorry but it did.

Dom
01-09-2013, 08:01 PM
She didn't learn about the lie until after Verin was gone.

I see it differently. I'm sure Moiraine and Verin had long off-screen conversations, and "how the hell did you end up with them?" came up.

I think Moiraine sounded more vexed about the Verin thing than worried. She knows Verin well, and Verin twists words with the best. It'd take more than a second hand report that "Verin said you sent her" to worry Moiraine. Moiraine'd be sure it's what Verin wanted them to believe and how she put it to make them believe that. Moiraine knows all the tricks in the book with the First Oath too well. If that worried her, she would have asked for her exact words.

We also don't know for sure that Verin flat out betrayed the First Oath saying that. She sounded smug (or rather smelled it IRRC) to have come out with that, and we know she has the habit of completing her train of thoughts in her head, letting half sentences be misunderstood. We know from later POV she plays it safe and tries to stick with the First Oath as if she's bound by it. Until that silly Mat scene in TGS anyway, but that's Brandon.

connabard
01-09-2013, 10:38 PM
On chapter 31 and maybe it's just me, but, it feels like a lot of things have happened and nearly none of it matters. Obviously everything winds up to something at the end of a WoT book but I'm really bored reading about the different battlefronts.
I am also glad about the few Gawyn PoV's so far.
Also Shaidar Haran turned out to be a dud? Kinda lame.

newyorkersedai
01-09-2013, 10:56 PM
And all of sudden, Balwer is being described like Wolverine, of all the fictitious characters. That same paragraph reads like something out of Arthur Conan Doyle, which made me laugh.

Then I got to learn that a lifetime farmer/sheepherer hadn't ever heard of the withdrawal method.

At one point 20 minutes ago, I wanted to look up (fist) to see how many were in a trolloc group. I nearly read the ending! HOLY SHIT THERE'S NO GLOSSARY

yks 6nnetu hing
01-10-2013, 02:17 AM
up to and including ch. 12 (p 266 IIRC)

Mat showed up and is as annoying and hypocritical as ever. crap. elaborate backstories? Every sane human being knows that the more someone chatters, the more bs it is. Unless that someone is 70+ years old, in which case it's usually dementia and they've forgotten that they already told you that 5 minutes ago.

I'm getting tired of all the fighting and the planning for fighting. However, I did enjoy the scene with Birgitte in the forest, and her musings/fears about the implications of her memory loss and being ripped out of T'A'R

I really liked the bit of conversation between Rand and Perrin, where Perrin asks what it's like to have LTT's memories and personality and Rand explains it as a really vivid dream. That tiny bit of conversation actually tied Rand, Mat and Perrin's memories/wolfbrotherness together in a really nice mirroring.

Sukoto
01-10-2013, 03:16 AM
I just finished the book. I don't have page numbers. I just want to rant about...
Mutha F-ing Knotai. What the F? Dumbest Sh*t Ever. So glad he didn't continue actually referring to Mat as Knotai after that first awful chapter. Fortuona is a dumb name, too. But I figured, hey, dumb character, dumb name. It's OK. But YOU DO NOT JUST GIVE MAT A NEW NAME! ESPECIALLY A STUPID ONE! And what's with the unexplained body swap? And how did Alivia even help with that beyond rounding up some provisions and money? Seriously, that was a let down. But at least we can rub it in the noses of those silly people who thought Rand was actually going to die. Not quite the faked death I expected, but it was close. I am sad that Cadsuane lived and Egwene died. I am sad that Moghedien was not killed by Nynaeve. I am sad that Egwene did not get to put a collar on Tuon. I am happy that it was Lan who killed Demandred. And Androl is pretty awesome. It feels SO good to be done with it. Like I was just released after a 20-year prison sentence.

The Unreasoner
01-10-2013, 05:03 AM
Just thought I'd say, (not done yet), but:
Holy Shit, Tarmon Gaidon is fucking boring. I know Jordan has a better grasp of thrilling battles (not surprising, considering), but this is like just going through the motions, with a healthy dose of 'special effects'.

And the whole thing feels like it's being dragged out, like filler or something. Tedious dialogue. Clumsy exposition. I can see why RJ wanted AMoL to be ONE book.

Terez
01-10-2013, 05:37 AM
I think that Brandon was attempting to convey some kind of large scope to the battle, and went about it in the wrong way. This has been a pretty common complaint about the book.

Davian93
01-10-2013, 07:08 AM
I think that Brandon was attempting to convey some kind of large scope to the battle, and went about it in the wrong way. This has been a pretty common complaint about the book.

The battle was, how you say, Michael Bay-esque.


Yes, I think that's the harshest insult I can come up with for that.

newyorkersedai
01-14-2013, 12:35 AM
My poetry certainly has a very blunt sort of language to it, I guess; maybe it works better if you know my voice. And, as in music, there are a range of voices that can work - from Tom Waits to Robert Plant.

So it's not easy to criticize what is a hard job and has room for appeal, but I sometimes feel like I'm having a movie described to me, like I'm blind (which would be thematically appropriate, at least). It gets excessive, although large swaths of the book are very engaging, I keep getting a sense that I'm reading a "WTF moment" story....

And then there are moment when I think to myself "it's not a film being described to a blind person, it's an A&E history show with reenactment footage and an annoying voice-over narrator." Again, this might be without time to digest before I even reach the end of the book, but if RJ was often annoyingly clever, then this feels far too... "user friendly," to me.

"Shaking off his stupor, Grady gathered his power and destroyed the dam blocking the canyon.
And in doing so, he released the river."

yks 6nnetu hing
01-14-2013, 01:11 AM
I put the book down at the beginning of ch 37 yesterday. It's a long chapter and I want to read it in one go. So, thoughts up until then:

There's a lot of battle. Sadly, so far the only reprieve from battle has been bow-chicka-wow-wow or Mat scenes.

I like the idea of time speed varying depending on how far from the Bore people are.

Perrin kicks ass!

There's a continuity error where Perrin and Gaul state that one cannot Heal oneself while in T'A'R in the flesh; whereas in LoC Egwene did just that for the duration of her trip. Once she got out of T'A'R though, the injuries were back, so I suppose Perrin trying to imagine a bleeding wound away might have some dire consequences.

Alanna! what happened? I need to know!

NOT ONCE so far have I seen the word combination "she placed the weaves just so" I know BS is not trying to imitate RJ too much but I just realized, I miss that.

Bela makes an appearance. yay! Bela takes on the Blight. probably wins singlehoofedly.

I think I can spot the areas where Bernard Cornwell has had an influence. I might make a thread on this when I've finished the whole book.

probe907
01-14-2013, 01:22 AM
"Shaking off his stupor, Grady gathered his power and destroyed the dam blocking the canyon.
And in doing so, he released the river."
BS does that a lot... "Tell don't show." People criticize him. There are a lot of infodumps of the following type:
Matt: "Hawkwing! Am I hero of the horn?"
Hawkwing: "No."
Matt: "How come I'm not tied to the thing? Rhuidean?"
Hawkwing: "No. Rahvin."
Or:

Perrin chases Graendal, the master of compulsion, across T'A'R, from the tent of one great general to the tent of another. She teleports away.
Perrin: "What's this bitch up to?"
Lanfear, having surreptitiously teleported next to Perrin: "Oh, her? Why, she is mind-controlling the generals, of course."

But the above is not as bad as:

Fat ruler of Murandy King Roedran: "I'm not Demandred."
Rand, exclaiming vocally in the middle of the gathering of all rulers of Randland: "What the hell? Why are you not Demandred?"
The reader: "OK, I get it, Demandred is in Shara and will teleport on top of one of the armies... Sheesh.

All examples that have been mentioned earlier, I know... We also have Demandred dropping acid, but that's another story.

GonzoTheGreat
01-14-2013, 03:32 AM
We also have Demandred dropping acid, but that's another story.
Might have been Moridin, who had put "a little something in his wine", just to keep him out of the way of the serious people for a while.

newyorkersedai
01-14-2013, 07:38 AM
BS does that a lot... "Tell don't show." People criticize him. There are a lot of infodumps of the following type:
Matt: "Hawkwing! Am I hero of the horn?"
Hawkwing: "No."
Matt: "How come I'm not tied to the thing? Rhuidean?"
Hawkwing: "No. Rahvin."
Or:

Perrin chases Graendal, the master of compulsion, across T'A'R, from the tent of one great general to the tent of another. She teleports away.
Perrin: "What's this bitch up to?"
Lanfear, having surreptitiously teleported next to Perrin: "Oh, her? Why, she is mind-controlling the generals, of course."

But the above is not as bad as:

Fat ruler of Murandy King Roedran: "I'm not Demandred."
Rand, exclaiming vocally in the middle of the gathering of all rulers of Randland: "What the hell? Why are you not Demandred?"
The reader: "OK, I get it, Demandred is in Shara and will teleport on top of one of the armies... Sheesh.

All examples that have been mentioned earlier, I know... We also have Demandred dropping acid, but that's another story.
I dunno, man, the quote I added felt <b>so much worse</b> to me. Because it's not even the two moments so far where Brandon describes a Matrix bullet-time scene for us. This is about excessively-obvious text.

Dams hold back water; I looked it up to be sure.

And the paragraphs before had talked about this dam holding back the water, Grady's POV stressing how much he'd wanted to destroy that dam, so the water would influence the fight with trollocs again.

So if Brandon thinks that people need that last sentence - that the water was now released because the dam had been destroyed - then he's writing to be read by like kids, or people with the mental sophistication of same.

Seriously, it reads like... like I when intentionally write something stupid for the purpose of making people laugh. The need to announce every single thing like that keeps little moments from having any emotional impact on me.

I think if this is his style, I'd rather he tell the story on video, playing with action figures. "So Demandred's all like 'I'm gonna get you, Rand.' And then a trolloc jumps on top of Gawyn. 'Raawwr!' said the trolloc. And then, like..."

GonzoTheGreat
01-14-2013, 08:26 AM
Well, it was of course also possible that Taim (or someone else) had added a little weave of Water (or Air, or whatever worked) in that dam, to keep the stuff from flowing through even if someone removed the physical barrier. But apparently I'm too smart to be a proper Dreadlord.

Weiramon
01-14-2013, 12:03 PM
So if Brandon thinks that people need that last sentence - that the water was now released because the dam had been destroyed - then he's writing to be read by like kids, or people with the mental sophistication of same.

Burn my soul, that's ridiculous. Why, you might as well criticize something like:

"Sound the Horn, Hornsounder."

probe907
01-14-2013, 01:56 PM
I dunno, man, the quote I added felt <b>so much worse</b> to me. Because it's not even the two moments so far where Brandon describes a Matrix bullet-time scene for us. This is about excessively-obvious text. Yeah, it's "tell don't show." Instead of "and the waters rushed" we have "he released the river." And I agree your example is more annoying than my examples, because mine grate only on the reader who has followed the WoT theorizing scene, while your example is just plain bad writing.

metaphor
01-14-2013, 02:27 PM
Yeah, it's "tell don't show." Instead of "and the waters rushed" we have "he released the river." And I agree your example is more annoying than my examples, because mine grate only on the reader who has followed the WoT theorizing scene, while your example is just plain bad writing.

I think the worst example was in a previous book when he described the White Tower as majestic and awesome.
That I think is Sanderson's biggest limit. He's too direct, he isn't really able to show or be subtle.
It's most evident with Mat and Talmanes, who are all about subtlety.

(btw, I wonder if RJ has ever used the word awesome. Someone who has all the series on ebooks could maybe check it?)

Davian93
01-14-2013, 02:32 PM
The word "awesome" was used 0 times in the first 11 books to include New Spring and The Strike.

It was used 6 times in TGS and TOM combined.

metaphor
01-14-2013, 02:47 PM
Thank you. :D

Terez
01-14-2013, 02:50 PM
It was only used once in AMOL, if that makes you feel any better. However, 'tempest' was used 29 times in AMOL. It was used 34 times in TGS-TOM, and RJ used it 4 times.

Davian93
01-14-2013, 02:51 PM
It was only used once in AMOL, if that makes you feel any better. However, 'tempest' was used 29 times in AMOL. It was used 34 times in TGS-TOM, and RJ used it 4 times.

Was it "only" 29? It sure as hell felt like more than that.