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View Full Version : Epilogue Thoughts (Major Spoilers Obviously)


Davian93
01-08-2013, 08:30 AM
So, here goes....

Lots of crazy stuff happened in the book and some of it is spoilery enough that I should add a meaningless paragraph to prevent mouse over issues (thanks T and sorry for this issue)...that said, its approximately 28 degrees today in Burlington with light SW winds coming in at around 5 knots. Its also mostly sunny and quite the picturesque day to be at work. I think I will make fajitas for dinner even though I went to Chipotle for dinner last night. Its okay though because they dont make fajitas and I had the soft taco meal with barbacoa which is about as far from homemade fajitas as one can get at an Americanized "mexican" restaurant that is really just an upscale Taco Bell. That brings an interesting point, what's up with Taco Bell being the only restaurant still around in Demolition Man and why was Demolition Man on cable approximately 1,238,304 times during the summer of 1996?

Rand can no longer channel now that he's in Moridin's old body...but he can apparently just do stuff magically like lighting his pipe by thinking about it? What the hell is up with that? Some sort of TAR walker in the real world, super mega Jesus powers? Thoughts

kcf
01-08-2013, 09:33 AM
So, here goes....

Rand can no longer channel now that he's in Moridin's old body...but he can apparently just do stuff magically like lighting his pipe by thinking about it? What the hell is up with that? Some sort of TAR walker in the real world, super mega Jesus powers? Thoughts

When Elayne and Avi go through the ter'angreal stash, is there a pipe ter'angreal that lights on it's own. My initial thought is that Alivia gave Rand a magical pipe so he could smoke all he wants. Otherwise, it could be that Rand has the power of the creator (of sorts) to weave the wheel as he wills it.

Terez
01-08-2013, 09:41 AM
Dav, everything in your OP shows up in the mouse-over for the thread. Can you try to add some things to the beginning of your post so it doesn't do that? Thanks.

Davian93
01-08-2013, 09:54 AM
Dav, everything in your OP shows up in the mouse-over for the thread. Can you try to add some things to the beginning of your post so it doesn't do that? Thanks.

Fixed it.

Dom
01-08-2013, 10:06 AM
So...

I think the idea is that with his experience "creating worlds" and standing at the threshold and deep in the mysteries of the cosmology, Rand has forcibly gained a unique, god-like understanding of the Pattern and yes, by the end he realizes this knowledge is still with him, and he can alter reality at will, no doubt to an extent only, as we saw that the global Pattern was beyond even the Creator's champion's mind to encompass. Basically, to Rand the real world is now like Tel'aran'rhiod to skilled Dreamwalkers. If he applies his will to it, he can change/create things.

fionwe1987
01-08-2013, 12:33 PM
My take

I had put up a theory that even Reality was only a folding of TAR. I think this has held up, with both the DO and Rand calling the alternative realities they weave "dreams". Where my theory was wrong was in assuming the Pattern and the Wheel were only parts of that one fold of TAR that is reality. It appears that's not true. That said, Rand learned to weave threads of the Pattern into whole worlds. Just like a Dreamwalker, he can now impose his will on the real world too. But I don't think he has the full range of abilities as a Dreamwalker would. He couldn't imagine a horse for himself, for example. He can't totally break the rules of reality, as unlike TAR, this folding is less malleable. Still, lighting pipes and other such small things are easy for him to do.

Davian93
01-08-2013, 12:43 PM
I wonder if he can Travel...or approximate something similar to Traveling...

I also wonder if he's going to get around to teaching anyone else the Song given that he obviously knows it and was using it throughout the book...kinda be a jerk move not to given the major food issues they'll have after all those farms/towns were destroyed and the DO spoiled so much of their remaining supplies.

Dom
01-08-2013, 12:58 PM
I imagine he will. Teach Singing to the Tuatha'an, that is. His thank you for the role they played in his epiphany. I imagine Rand will keep acting as "corrective mechanism" for the Wheel (he is a Hero of the Horn, despite not being ta'veren anymore), and develop a legend of his own. I think to begin with, farmers should expect a few miracles where this "stranger on the road" will pass, but I expect one day he'll cross path with the Tinkers, or return to Aviendha.

He became the "odd stranger" he saw in his first scene in the series... reality didn't seem to touch him like normal humans, and he disappeared magically. Was he a horse-thief or just some refugee from trouble, they wondered at the time. Should he be welcomed to Festival or is he the kind you don't want there? RJ had strongly linked Ishamael to that "stranger" (allegorically only, he was really a Fade), and now Rand with Moridin's appearance have become him... RJ brought things full circle brilliantly.

Davian93
01-08-2013, 01:05 PM
I imagine he will. Teach Singing to the Tuatha'an, that is. His thank you for the role they played in his epiphany. I imagine Rand will keep acting as "corrective mechanism" for the Wheel (he is a Hero of the Horn, despite not being ta'veren anymore), and develop a legend of his own. I think to begin with, farmers should expect a few miracles where this "stranger on the road" will pass, but I expect one day he'll cross path with the Tinkers, or return to Aviendha.

He became the "odd stranger" he saw in his first scene in the series... reality didn't seem to touch him like normal humans, and he disappeared magically. Was he a horse-thief or just some refugee from trouble, they wondered at the time. Should he be welcomed to Festival or is he the kind you don't want there? RJ had strongly linked Ishamael to that "stranger" (allegorically only, he was really a Fade), and now Rand with Moridin's appearance have become him... RJ brought things full circle brilliantly.

Little do we know that Rand will end up Speaking for those that died in the Last Battle and a new religion will spring up from his teachings of peace and non-violence. He will also write a biography of his good friend and symbolic brother "Perrin" called The Hegemon after Perrin's rule of the Two Rivers and Saldaea through his wife

Tedman
01-08-2013, 02:11 PM
Little do we know that Rand will end up Speaking for those that died in the Last Battle and a new religion will spring up from his teachings of peace and non-violence. He will also write a biography of his good friend and symbolic brother "Perrin" called The Hegemon after Perrin's rule of the Two Rivers and Saldaea through his wife

He will travel to the land of Madmen and discover a tiny in stature pig like race that worships the trees like the ogier... their kin but of madness.

As for:

The wandering aspect, I think it is appropriate since Mat and Rand more or less switch spots in the Odin mythology (in terms of roles) Odin wanders among the humans with a coat more like what Rand has taken to wearing but with the hat and the eye of mat.

It does seem like TAR is the true "reality". I did enjoy the flickerflickerflickerflicker at Shayol Ghul Seanchan as lighthaired as aiel etc.

I don't see why he couldnt conjure a horse, if he truly lit the fire with his mind I can only say "Size matters not".

Jalyn
01-08-2013, 10:11 PM
I thought either Aviendha or Elayne had lit it for him, actually. He thinks, it's lit and then all three girls are looking right at him.

kivo
01-08-2013, 10:17 PM
I look at this as the Pattern's thank you to Rand for saving it. It gives him something he has not had in years... freedom. Freedom from being ta'veren. Freedom from lack of what he needs through his new power. Now he can travel the world. Jump off some Sea Folk cliffs, teach the tinkers to Sing, or just do a whole lot of nothing and have it be everything he hoped it would be and more. It's the perfect thank you for a job well done.

TyranAmiros
01-09-2013, 04:47 AM
Just a quick thought on Rand's new body, but it strikes me that Moridin may not have been able to channel the One Power. We see Moridin channel the True Power quite a bit, but I searched the e-books and I don't know if we ever see him channel the One Power. I know Aran'gar seems to suggest otherwise, but is it possible that if a soul was put into a body without the genetic capacity to channel, he or she would lose the ability?

Davian93
01-09-2013, 08:14 AM
Just a quick thought on Rand's new body, but it strikes me that Moridin may not have been able to channel the One Power. We see Moridin channel the True Power quite a bit, but I searched the e-books and I don't know if we ever see him channel the One Power. I know Aran'gar seems to suggest otherwise, but is it possible that if a soul was put into a body without the genetic capacity to channel, he or she would lose the ability?

Yes it is possible and yes, that is why Rand can no longer channel now that he's in Moridin's body. Moridin never used the OP so there was zero need for his replacement body to use it. If anything, it made sense for the DO to give him a body that couldn't use the OP as it tied his champion to his cause even more than the other Chosen.

Terez
01-09-2013, 08:29 AM
You can't use the True Power if you don't have the ability to channel. Moridin's body was burned out.

Davian93
01-09-2013, 08:37 AM
You can't use the True Power if you don't have the ability to channel. Moridin's body was burned out.

That's right...totally forgot that. Thanks T.

~feels stupid now~

Landro
01-09-2013, 11:56 AM
You can't use the True Power if you don't have the ability to channel. Moridin's body was burned out.

IF he'd talked to Nynaeve she could have fixed that for him..............

Davian93
01-09-2013, 11:59 AM
IF he'd talked to Nynaeve she could have fixed that for him..............

I dont believe Nynaeve can heal Burning Out, just Stilling. There's a difference between them.

Karistina
01-09-2013, 12:12 PM
I dont believe Nynaeve can heal Burning Out, just Stilling. There's a difference between them.

Do we know that for certain? I've never quite bought that. I don't think Nynaeve or any of the others who could Heal stilling/gentling ever met someone who had been burned out... The only one we ever knew for any length of time was Setalle.

Terez
01-09-2013, 12:14 PM
Do we know that for certain?
Yes. Those who have been severed (stilled/gentled) can still sense the Source. Those who have been burned out cannot. It's like the difference between cut and cauterized, probably. Though I've compared it to the difference between tubal ligation and hysterectomy before...

kcf
01-09-2013, 12:16 PM
Do we know that for certain? I've never quite bought that. I don't think Nynaeve or any of the others who could Heal stilling/gentling ever met someone who had been burned out... The only one we ever knew for any length of time was Setalle.

Setalle could sense nothing through the a'dam. Leanne and Siuan could sense through it but not channel. To me that indicates the difference. For stilling/severing, the channeling ability is simply cut and can be reconnected in the way Nynaeve and Flinn do so. But for burning out, the material is simply burned away - like the loss of a limb. A missing limb can't be healed because it can't be regrown, which is how it is for burning out.

Terez
01-09-2013, 12:19 PM
Setalle could sense nothing through the a'dam. Leanne and Siuan could sense through it but not channel. To me that indicates the difference.
I usually stick with the fact that they can't sense the Source, since the Setalle bit was not in POV and people have (annoyingly) tried to argue that she could sense something, and just didn't say so.

Karistina
01-09-2013, 12:21 PM
Setalle could sense nothing through the a'dam. Leanne and Siuan could sense through it but not channel. To me that indicates the difference. For stilling/severing, the channeling ability is simply cut and can be reconnected in the way Nynaeve and Flinn do so. But for burning out, the material is simply burned away - like the loss of a limb. A missing limb can't be healed because it can't be regrown, which is how it is for burning out.

I had forgotten that Leane and Siuan had worn the a'dam bracelet before getting Healed. I think your reasoning has finally convinced me. :-)

Karistina
01-09-2013, 12:22 PM
I usually stick with the fact that they can't sense the Source, since the Setalle bit was not in POV and people have (annoyingly) tried to argue that she could sense something, and just didn't say so.

And then...you go and make me doubt again. :-)

Terez
01-09-2013, 12:35 PM
Fear not; we know for sure they can't sense the Source. That's why I say I stick to that argument; it's unassailable.