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Licorice
01-13-2013, 06:05 PM
I'm the type of person who likes to have things spelled out for me, so any help you can provide is great.
1. Egwene gives instructions for the seals to be broken when the light is seen. How did she know this?
2. During the Last Battle, Mat sends a group to keep the river from being cut off. Grady sees them all die, then they come out of a gateway and die again. What's with that?
3. And finally, how did Rand get Moridin's body? How did the three know it was going to happen? And does he still have a bond with them even though he can't channel?

Thanks.

shownder
01-13-2013, 06:20 PM
I'm the type of person who likes to have things spelled out for me, so any help you can provide is great.
1. Egwene gives instructions for the seals to be broken when the light is seen. How did she know this?
2. During the Last Battle, Mat sends a group to keep the river from being cut off. Grady sees them all die, then they come out of a gateway and die again. What's with that?
3. And finally, how did Rand get Moridin's body? How did the three know it was going to happen? And does he still have a bond with them even though he can't channel?

Thanks.

1. I believe she deduces that there would be a light when she figures out the anti-balefire weave. As in when shadow is dispelled there is a light.

2. Those people are from the cursed village of Hindersnap where when the sun goes down they all turn into crazy psycopathic killers and the next morning they all wake up normal in their beds even if they died the night before.

3. I'm assuming it was Nynaeve and Moirane that traded their bodies using the sword and the control of Moridin. I would say that the bond is still intact because the 3 of them didn't go insane like other aes sedai do. It doesn't matter if he can't channel; they bonded him, not the other way around. Warders can't channel either.

Davian93
01-13-2013, 06:28 PM
It couldn't be Nynaeve because she thinks Rand is dead and is questioning Avi about it.

Rand had to do the swap himself...or transform his body to look like Moridin's and Moridin's to look like him with his super magic powers that he now has.

Dom
01-13-2013, 06:42 PM
1. Egwene gives instructions for the seals to be broken when the light is seen. How did she know this?

One of the early chapters. Egwene mentions a Dreamer from the past, the only Amyrlin who was before her. She wrote "wait for the light" as a note in a passage about the breaking of the seals.


2. During the Last Battle, Mat sends a group to keep the river from being cut off. Grady sees them all die, then they come out of a gateway and die again. What's with that?

They're Brandon's bloody Hinderstap people from TGS. They kill each other each night then return to life at dawn. You'd think after the near unanimous uproar about the whole episode in TGS Brandon would have known better than to shove them back down our throat again, but apparently he was in vindictive/smart ass mood "look, they had a purpose". :rolleyes:

probe907
01-13-2013, 06:44 PM
1) Some kind of prophecy? Rand being the Lord of the Morning and all. (Edit: Thanks, Dom!)
2) Those are the zombies from 2 books ago.
3) The switch happened through some kind of a Callandor shenanigan, I presume. Since it's such a unique event we can treat it as a miracle, anyway, and leave it at that. Also, Rand controlled the Dark One for a short while, and we know the DO has the power to issue new bodies to his goons. So, perhaps, Rand could have used that power to switch bodies with Ishy.
And I think that pipe in the Epilogue is a teaser/joke.

Davian93
01-13-2013, 07:17 PM
They're Brandon's bloody Hinderstap people from TGS. They kill each other each night then return to life at dawn. You'd think after the near unanimous uproar about the whole episode in TGS Brandon would have known better than to shove them back down our throat again, but apparently he was in vindictive/smart ass mood "look, they had a purpose".

That type of vindictiveness seemed widespread in this last book.

sleepinghour
01-13-2013, 07:27 PM
That type of vindictiveness seemed widespread in this last book.

No kidding; I don't think I've seen that many tempests before. And then...

If you used the words people expected, they grew bored.

Davian93
01-13-2013, 07:37 PM
It was a tempestuous storm of tempests that tempted me to tempestuously storm into a rage of tempestness.

Brutally bad.

probe907
01-13-2013, 07:49 PM
No kidding; I don't think I've seen that many tempests before. And then...

Yeah, BS totally "dominated" us with that Thom scene... Very post-modern, this BS, lots of winking at the reader and breaking the 4th wall. Sometimes it works, but he overdoes it.

Terez
01-13-2013, 07:52 PM
Not 4th wall. Fanservice. That scene mostly bugged me because Brandon apparently (literally) used it to work through his writer's block. Actually, I only realized that after. The first time it bugged me because it was just dumb, and also because he had Thom writing stuff on paper. Thom does everything from memory; he's never written anything on paper, not once in the entire series. I liked the fake Cadsuane part of the scene, but that was about it...

Davian93
01-13-2013, 07:54 PM
Not 4th wall. Fanservice. That scene mostly bugged me because Brandon apparently (literally) used it to work through his writer's block. Actually, I only realized that after. The first time it bugged me because it was just dumb, and also because he had Thom writing stuff on paper. Thom does everything from memory; he's never written anything on paper, not once in the entire series. I liked the fake Cadsuane part of the scene, but that was about it...

Also, why in the hell did he have paper/quill/ink with him there? He's not Loial for godsake...I highly doubt he carries that stuff in his pocket.

Also, on "fanservice"...how about actually respect us and dont pander to the lowest common denominator of WoT fans that flock the pages of DM?

Terez
01-13-2013, 08:06 PM
The lowest common denominator loves Brandon unconditionally. That's all he cares about.

Davian93
01-13-2013, 08:07 PM
The lowest common denominator loves Brandon unconditionally. That's all he cares about.

Sad but true.

Echo chambers arent exactly conducive to good writing.

probe907
01-13-2013, 08:08 PM
Fanservice is as bad... I accepted the Rand-Matt bragging contest, because it was kind of funny, and because it livened up an otherwise horribly written scene. But that Thom sequence toward the end was jarringly out of tone. It was such an obvious writer's joke, inserted at such a crucial moment in the narrative, that I skipped most of it. Not to mention the plot holes it opened - you covered some of them - imagine a Black Ajah sister approaching the mouth of Shayol Ghul. Let us examine her thinking process: "Ah, here is the Dragon Reborn's old companion, the lover of that bitch Moiraine, the killer of fades, etc etc. Hmmm. Should I balefire him, given that I've already used the OP to mask myself, or should I try to sneak by him pretending to be an Aes Sedai of his intimate acquaintance? Maybe I can send a masked darkfriend blademaster Warder of mine to massacre this Gleeman... Hmmm... I know, I'll try to sneak!" THUMP! "Oh no! I have been slain!" *DIES*. Then one hour later her black sister... Does the same thing! Ok.

Then there are the other blatant infodumps and in-jokes. Like when Rand shouts "I thought Demandred was the king of that Borderland Nation!" Or when Demandred keeps raving about Rand just before Lan's charge, and Matt says "That guy's getting annoying." Or when Matt addresses explicit questions on WoT mechanics to Hawkwing Infodump. There are many other examples. It's too much and too blatant. But what canya do...

Davian93
01-13-2013, 08:11 PM
Well, after 20+ years of reading the books, I can b!tch and moan on a book website and be heavily disappointed that he went out of his way to pander like that.

It was a disservice to the fans and the series as a whole and I'm somewhat shocked that Harriet allowed it as editor.

sleepinghour
01-13-2013, 08:17 PM
Echo chambers arent exactly conducive to good writing.

Reddit's WoT community seems to be the only WoT forum he regularly follows. They loved Androl, the Mat/Rand bragging contest, Mat's letter... I always feel like I'm visiting some strange alternate universe. Everything we hate, they love.

GonzoTheGreat
01-14-2013, 04:02 AM
Thom does everything from memory; he's never written anything on paper, not once in the entire series.
Didn't he pass notes to Rand detailing which Tairen High Lord was scheming with which Tairen High Lady?

KyleLitke
01-14-2013, 10:35 AM
I feel like half this message board is people shouting over each other bragging that they hate Brandon more than everyone else. It's like every bloody thread someone has to make sure to post how much they hate him. I get it. Personally I enjoy Brandon's writing well enough, it has its flaws and it isn't RJ, but its fine. If people don't like him that's obviously fine but it seems to be dominating practically every thread. It is what it is.

Anyway, I don't think the girls necessarily knew there would be a body swap, but they are still bonded to him and could feel him growing stronger. Also there were enough viewings, dreams, and prophecies for them to at least guess that it was possible he might survive. As to how, I'm not sure, but Nynaeve doesn't know and Rand was still himself when he carried Moridins unconscious body out of Shayol Ghul.

Terez
01-14-2013, 11:32 AM
I feel like half this message board is people shouting over each other bragging that they hate Brandon more than everyone else.
You might try certain other sites where everyone shouts over each other bragging about how much they love it and people who had issues with it are branded as fandom traitors. But this is TL; we say what we feel, and it's always been that way, and always will be. If you don't like it, then perhaps TL isn't for you.

Mort
01-14-2013, 11:55 AM
You might try certain other sites where everyone shouts over each other bragging about how much they love it and people who had issues with it are branded as fandom traitors. But this is TL; we say what we feel, and it's always been that way, and always will be. If you don't like it, then perhaps TL isn't for you.

He just said what he felt. He'll fit in fine. ;)

ShadowbaneX
01-14-2013, 12:02 PM
oooh, now that's meta.

Davian93
01-14-2013, 12:03 PM
I DONT GET IT...NOBODY HERE IS SHOUTING

ShadowbaneX
01-14-2013, 12:05 PM
I think it means: Theoryland is as Theoryland does.

GonzoTheGreat
01-14-2013, 12:29 PM
I think it means: Theoryland is as Theoryland does.
That's the theory, at least.

Anaiya Sedai
01-15-2013, 06:06 PM
Rep has been spread around. :D

Khoram
01-15-2013, 06:44 PM
I DONT GET IT...NOBODY HERE IS SHOUTING

Well, you know, GL HAS been resealed. He won't be able to talk to you as has been the norm throughout the series. ;)

akmarinov
01-17-2013, 07:05 AM
I have a question.

Before Rand enters the Dark One's cave with the women, he doubts if this is the right time and then a voice in captions says:

IT IS TIME. LET THE TASK BE UNDERTAKEN.

Rand mentions that he has heard that voice before and Moiraine is surprised.

Who is that? The Creator?
Where has Rand heard it before?

It's obviously not the Dark One, since he notices Rand only after he enters the cave later on.

GonzoTheGreat
01-17-2013, 07:17 AM
It's the Creator, and Rand heard the voice before in TEOTW, after he'd made his Tarwin's Gap appearance.
Come to think of it, TG was sort of practice for Maradon, which was practice for TG. Neat, that.

yks 6nnetu hing
01-17-2013, 07:29 AM
I feel like half this message board is people shouting over each other bragging that they hate Brandon more than everyone else. It's like every bloody thread someone has to make sure to post how much they hate him. I get it. Personally I enjoy Brandon's writing well enough, it has its flaws and it isn't RJ, but its fine. If people don't like him that's obviously fine but it seems to be dominating practically every thread. It is what it is.

FYI, not just to Kyle but also other posters here: as the book has been released such a short time ago, and the reactions are very fresh, we're being quite lenient on the Brandon criticisms, but as time goes on and this sort of thing continues to re-surface you will see all literary critique posts that have overtaken actual discussion moved to the literary critique thread. Same as we deal with Egwene discussions that derail other topics.