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View Full Version : What ruined AMOL for me (spoilers)


tigercfa11
01-13-2013, 09:44 PM
I have read the series since 1998 and have read many books in the series at least 4 times. I have been with these characters for a big chunk of my life. So when I finish an epic 14 book series, I WANT TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENS TO EVERYONE AFTER!

Give me a LOTR type wrap-up. When I flipped ahead and saw that the Last Battle chapter ended with about 100 pages left to go in the book, I got very excited because I thought we would get 100 pages of wrap-up post Tarmon Gaidon. After 15 years, I need absolute closure on these guys. Tell me exactly what happens to everyone over the next 50 to 100 years.

Instead, we get a few measly pages of just the day after the battle and those were pretty awful. I mean the way Rand just abandons his 6 kids (assuming Avienda's vision was right and she is pregnant with quadruplets) and his wheelchair-bound girl (Avienda) is just pathetic. I absolutely hated the ending of Dark Knight Rises, and this is obviously very similar.

I give this book 2 stars out of 5 as a result of the lack of closure and successfully convinced my friend who is currently on book 8 to just stop reading the series. Very, very disappointed.

Terez
01-13-2013, 09:57 PM
I have read the series since 1998 and have read many books in the series at least 4 times. I have been with these characters for a big chunk of my life. So when I finish an epic 14 book series, I WANT TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENS TO EVERYONE AFTER!
RJ warned us for years that wouldn't happen.

I mean the way Rand just abandons his 6 kids (assuming Avienda's vision was right and she is pregnant with quadruplets)
He could have died, you know.

...and his wheelchair-bound girl (Avienda) is just pathetic.??

tigercfa11
01-13-2013, 10:02 PM
"He could have died, you know."

I would have preferred it.


Regarding the "wheel-chair bound girl" comment, it was clearly said that Aviendha's feet were ruined and she would not be able to walk for a long-time.

Terez
01-13-2013, 10:11 PM
And?

Toss the dice
01-16-2013, 03:37 PM
I knew going in that we wouldn't get a large "after LB" part at the end, but I too was very disappointed. It just...ended. Pretty much the most anti-climactic and boring ending of any book or movie ever made. Especially when you factor in the sheer epic scope and world that many of us have followed for DECADES.

I mean, what the fuck? Even the talk about what Rand actually did to the DO (sealed him away) was limited to like one sentence by one character in an offhand way. We received VASTLY more post-information after the Eye of the World conclusion in the first book! Out of the hundreds upon hundreds of pages devoted to the Last Battle fighting (which for the most part I enjoyed), why couldn't even a tiny fraction of it have been replaced with "after" content?

Hell, with the pathetic "after" we were presented with, even one single additional page would have been huge. Add 5 more pages and now we're starting to get somewhere for a small epilogue that leaves 99% of it to the imagination (which was the goal). I don't even care about X or XX years into the future. Just give us some brief fucking reunions, some dialogue, SOMETHING.

I don't care if it was RJ who wrote that last part. It was fucking terrible. It would be fucking terrible if it was the conclusion for ONE book, let alone 14 books that spanned over 20 years. I'm sorry, but I was very disappointed.

mogi67
01-16-2013, 03:41 PM
Funny how Rand riding off during his funeral is equated with him abandoning his wives, children, and father, never to see them again. A bit of an overreaction if you ask me

Toss the dice
01-16-2013, 03:57 PM
Funny how Rand riding off during his funeral is equated with him abandoning his wives, children, and father, never to see them again. A bit of an overreaction if you ask me

I agree with your take on this. However, I was a bit baffled myself why Rand decided to ride off alone (in secret) in the first place. Why not just tell the truth? I'm sure there would be a few advantages to the world as a whole thinking the Dragon Reborn is dead, but they just don't seem to stack up against the disadvantages, even in the short term, assuming that he eventually comes out to all of his family and friends.

What would be so terrible about everyone knowing Rand now inhabits another body? It's not like he couldn't just ride off and live on a farm somewhere either way. He doesn't owe any ruler or nation anything, and quite frankly deserves to live a quiet life of peace after what he did. Any and all "commitments" could be officially taken care of in short order, if he didn't simply tell those involved with said commitments to figure it out on their own. That he's done. Good luck. How hard is that? Who's going to argue with him?

Was there something (like a stipulation, etc) in the Dragon's Peace or some other document/policy that would benefit from Rand being "dead?"

Davian93
01-16-2013, 04:02 PM
Rand simply didnt want to deal with the responsibility so he "died". If he didnt, he'd be placed in a position of power and it would probably lead to more conflict in the end.

Terez
01-16-2013, 04:05 PM
Was there something (like a stipulation, etc) in the Dragon's Peace or some other document/policy that would benefit from Rand being "dead?"
"I call it the Dragon's Peace," Rand said softly. "And it is one of the three things which I will require of you. Your payment, to me, in exchange for my life."

Davian93
01-16-2013, 04:09 PM
"I call it the Dragon's Peace," Rand said softly. "And it is one of the three things which I will require of you. Your payment, to me, in exchange for my life."

There is that...the nations involved might not want to enforce it if the bastard didnt even die for them.

Though hopefully Rand was smart enough to avoid putting that part down in writing.

SauceyBlueConfetti
01-16-2013, 04:15 PM
Aes Sedai terminology...learnt well from Moiraine


in exchange for my life


I didn't hear Prince's "I would die for u" playing from the loudspeakers in his conjured circus tent :D

Davian93
01-16-2013, 04:16 PM
Aes Sedai terminology...learnt well from Moiraine


in exchange for my life


I didn't hear Prince's "I would die for u" playing from the loudspeakers in his conjured circus tent :D

I believe it was the accoustic version...maybe that's why you missed it.

mogi67
01-16-2013, 04:16 PM
I agree with your take on this. However, I was a bit baffled myself why Rand decided to ride off alone (in secret) in the first place. Why not just tell the truth? I'm sure there would be a few advantages to the world as a whole thinking the Dragon Reborn is dead, but they just don't seem to stack up against the disadvantages, even in the short term, assuming that he eventually comes out to all of his family and friends.



What disadvantages? The world wouldn't have been able to move on if it was known that he was still alive.

Toss the dice
01-16-2013, 04:19 PM
Rand simply didnt want to deal with the responsibility so he "died". If he didnt, he'd be placed in a position of power and it would probably lead to more conflict in the end.

Who says he would be placed in a position of power? What are they going to do? Make him? That's my point. Read my post again to see my take on this.

The "more conflict in the end" part of your post basically encapsulates all of the potential disadvantages of him remaining alive, minus (and/or including) the Dragon's Peace bit and any other possible documentation conflicts. But then, if he simply says "fuck you guys" and rides off to live on a farm or explore the world, what are they going to do about it? One would think he would be able to make his point clear in not a lot of time. That he's done with power and wants to relax in peace now. Voila.

"I call it the Dragon's Peace," Rand said softly. "And it is one of the three things which I will require of you. Your payment, to me, in exchange for my life."

Thanks for this. Verbally at least, there does seem to be a very big advantage to remaining "dead," although as was said, maybe it isn't in writing.

Toss the dice
01-16-2013, 04:26 PM
What disadvantages? The world wouldn't have been able to move on if it was known that he was still alive.

Move on how, exactly? I see no difference to the world acknowledging that the DO is sealed away and that it is a new Age, whether it thinks Rand is dead or alive. Sure, Rand's death fulfills the EXPECTATION that the Dragon Reborn was supposed to die to save the world, but realistically what difference does this make one way or the other?

And if some nobles or other nutjobs want closure on the whole thing (beyond the DO being sealed away, of course), then I would think Rand inhabiting another body, being unable to ever channel again, and possessing Matrix-like powers over the Pattern would suffice. If that doesn't suffice, well tough shit. Then again, I wouldn't see it being an issue in the first place, provided they know Rand has no aspirations of power whatsoever.

SauceyBlueConfetti
01-16-2013, 04:28 PM
Don't forget these:

Rand:
HI! No, it's me, really, RAND! The Dragon Reborn. I sealed the DO away. I did. No, really, it is me!


Tuon:
Oh, cool, the treaty is void. I get to collar EVERYBODY!

Elayne:
It is him.

All other rulers:
Why should we believe you. The White Tower is trying to control us again, using you as a puppet.

Black Tower:
Uhhhh, wait, who is in charge of us again? That guy can't channel. Or can he?

Moiraine:
Rand, can't you do ONE thing right?

Rand:
It IS me. It IS!

Whitecloaks:
He is a DARKFRIEND! Look at the fang in his eye! Kill him!

HCFFs:
ARE YOU FRICKING KIDDING ME?



Yeah, keeping him alive would've solved a lot of problems. :rolleyes:

Toss the dice
01-16-2013, 04:43 PM
Don't forget these:

Rand:
HI! No, it's me, really, RAND! The Dragon Reborn. I sealed the DO away. I did. No, really, it is me!


Tuon:
Oh, cool, the treaty is void. I get to collar EVERYBODY!

Elayne:
It is him.

All other rulers:
Why should we believe you. The White Tower is trying to control us again, using you as a puppet.

Black Tower:
Uhhhh, wait, who is in charge of us again? That guy can't channel. Or can he?

Moiraine:
Rand, can't you do ONE thing right?

Rand:
It IS me. It IS!

Whitecloaks:
He is a DARKFRIEND! Look at the fang in his eye! Kill him!

HCFFs:
ARE YOU FRICKING KIDDING ME?



Yeah, keeping him alive would've solved a lot of problems. :rolleyes:

Well said on the specifics. There were a few of these I hadn't even thought about. Good point.

Birgitte
01-16-2013, 05:22 PM
Don't forget these:

Rand:
HI! No, it's me, really, RAND! The Dragon Reborn. I sealed the DO away. I did. No, really, it is me!


Tuon:
Oh, cool, the treaty is void. I get to collar EVERYBODY!

Elayne:
It is him.

All other rulers:
Why should we believe you. The White Tower is trying to control us again, using you as a puppet.

Black Tower:
Uhhhh, wait, who is in charge of us again? That guy can't channel. Or can he?

Moiraine:
Rand, can't you do ONE thing right?

Rand:
It IS me. It IS!

Whitecloaks:
He is a DARKFRIEND! Look at the fang in his eye! Kill him!

HCFFs:
ARE YOU FRICKING KIDDING ME?



Yeah, keeping him alive would've solved a lot of problems. :rolleyes:

LOL... Both delightful and true!

Now, I would have liked to have a bit more of an epilogue, some hint about what comes next for the world. However, I didn't expect it and it certainly does not ruin the book for me. If my ONLY complaint is that the book ends too soon (and it is), then you have a goddamn masterpiece on your hands (and I really think you do).

Lost One
01-16-2013, 06:13 PM
More epilogue would have been nice. While none of this ruins the books for me.. I would have like to see some direction for the others:

Lan, Nanaeve and the rebirth of the Malkieri.
Cadusanne taking the Amrylin Seat and Bitch slapping the traditionalist.
The lesson that above mentioned Amrylin teaches the Ashaman.
Mat adjusting to his role as Raven Prince.

There was just a sense of it being finished, just to be done with it.

eht slat meit
01-16-2013, 06:21 PM
I don't see a problem with the lack of epilogue - the reverse-catechism was just what I expected, and wraps it up nicely. As far as Rand is concerned, I think that Elayne already made it clear exactly how things are going to work out after: each has a high station, the Queen, the Doomseer and the Wise One, and they will come to him when they want him. That'll probably limit his access to his kids, but you can't have everything you want even when you're the post-TG Dragon Reborn, and obviously that includes sequestering three of the world's most powerful women in the world in a sheep-shack mid-nowhere.

The way it is is just the way he wants it, I think.

bigwil0024
01-16-2013, 06:36 PM
the two big problems i have with this ending.

One, what does happen to everybody? i agree 5-10 pages bringing closure to this part in a lot of our lives would have been nice.

Two, was this ending unique? Or did this happen exactly like this before, in the previous third age? It seems to me that the ground work for another age of legends has been set. No war, male and females channeling in peace. And people coming up with great new weaves of the one power, did anyone else catch with the aes sedai mentioned thinking she was on the verge of flying?
Is it all over or not, or just doomed to rinse and repeat again?

Sinistrum
01-16-2013, 06:51 PM
You need to also consider this Toss. Rand has literally had the weight of the world on his shoulders for 2+ years. That's an impossible and unfair burden for anyone to have shouldered. But he did it, and while it almost broke him, he did it with the end result being a resounding success by any measure. Part of the point of Rand "riding off into the sunset" was to give him a reward. A break from such soul crushing responsibilities and allow him to actually enjoy life for a change.

And I don't understand the "Rand is a deadbeat" argument either. I've seen deadbeats quite often through my job. Deadbeats don't have their baby momma's sign off on their plans to be a deadbeat or actively participate in them. And not one of Rand's harem objected to what he was doing. If he was being a deadbeat they would immediately have turned him in to the Aiel Wise One Peacekeepers for back child support and filed a criminal complaint.

Crispin's Crispian
01-16-2013, 06:58 PM
I see two important points, here.

1) Why would anyone think the world rulers will actually give a shit if Rand lives? If Illian wants to attack Tear, what's really to stop them? The Aiel?


2) Plus I just realized RJ's true motivation for the body swap:

http://content9.flixster.com/movie/25/59/255919_det.jpg

WoT II: Rand Lives!!

Alec
01-16-2013, 08:14 PM
Part of my problem with Rand riding off to sleep in a barn isn't that he does it, it is how he does it. It makes sense that he just wants to be totally free with no responsibility, but it also seems very out of character for him to not tell at least a few other people that he cares about and who care about Rand and not the Dragon Reborn (Tam at the very least).

Also dick move not giving Loial any book material!

Rand al'Fain
01-16-2013, 08:17 PM
Part of my problem with Rand riding off to sleep in a barn isn't that he does it, it is how he does it. It makes sense that he just wants to be totally free with no responsibility, but it also seems very out of character for him to not tell at least a few other people that he cares about and who care about Rand and not the Dragon Reborn (Tam at the very least).

Also dick move not giving Loial any book material!

Chuckled at that one myself. And Loial may never get to hear Rand's story, all things considered.