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Davian93
09-09-2008, 02:18 PM
Can Obama Win Back Wal-Mart Moms?
By Karen Tumulty / Washington

It might be easy to dismiss John McCain's resurgence in the polls as merely a convention bounce, especially in light of the excitement generated by running mate Sarah Palin, but there's one startling shift that should be particularly worrisome to the Obama campaign. In the Washington Post-ABC News survey released Monday, McCain enjoyed a 20 percentage point turnaround against Obama among white women, going from an 8-point deficit before the Republican convention to a 12-point advantage after it.

McCain has reason to focus on these women voters. Going into the convention, surveys showed he was not bringing them aboard in the numbers he needed, particularly in the swing states that he must win in November. Pre-convention polls by Quinnipiac University, for instance, showed McCain with a huge "gender gap" in states like Ohio, Minnesota and Wisconsin, where his support among white women trailed his numbers among men by 20 percentage points, and in Colorado, where the spread was 30 points.

White women are always a key demographic in close races. Classic swing voters, they tend to be more pragmatic than partisan, and usually make up their minds late in the race. The ones who matter most, however, are not necessarily the same in each presidential election. In 1996, they were the "soccer moms" who responded to Bill Clinton's small-bore initiatives and rescued his presidency. The white female vote was crucial to George W. Bush's victory in 2004, a year that was marked by the post-9/11 political emergence of the so-called "security mom" — a term, interestingly enough, coined by Joe Biden, the man who is now Obama's running mate. But where 55% of white women voted for Bush in 2004, only 50% voted for Republican candidates in the 2006 mid-term elections, which was one of the reasons that the party lost both houses of Congress. And as much as the conservative base of the party, they were the real target audience that McCain was aiming at with his surprise pick of Palin. The campaign hopes female voters will relate to her thoroughly modern and complicated everywoman story, even if they don't agree with her on the issues. (See photos of Sarah Palin here.)

The women that pollsters are watching most closely this year are different in some ways from their "soccer mom" and "security mom" sisters of those earlier election cycles. For one thing, they are slightly older than the soccer moms (in their 40s and 50s) and are juggling another set of problems — how to pay for college for their kids, and how to take care of their elderly parents. They are also less upscale. Lacking college degrees, they are more likely to be feeling the brunt of an array of economic problems that now includes high energy prices, rising unemployment, soaring health care costs and housing foreclosures.

Democratic pollster Celinda Lake calls them "Wal-Mart moms, or Wal-Mart grandmas," and says they are not so much undecided as conflicted in making their choice this year. Geoff Garin, a Democratic pollster who served as chief strategist of Hillary Clinton's campaign in its final days, agrees: "Frankly, it's because they are conflicted on Obama. They'd like to vote for a Democrat, but they're not sure Obama is the one." The Democratic nominee has not yet made the sale with these women voters, in part because they have yet to be convinced he has the experience he needs, and in part because they are more culturally conservative than he is. And there could be another factor, one that is harder for pollsters to measure. "They are more racially sensitive, honestly," than younger and more educated women, says Lake.

With his choice of Palin, McCain "definitely caught their attention," Lake adds. But whether this is merely a blip or a real trend has yet to be seen. Obama strategist Anita Dunn predicts there will be "a settling effect" in the polls, as the Democratic campaign brings more scrutiny to Palin's record-drawing attention, for instance, to the fact that she once actively supported the now-infamous "Bridge to Nowhere" earmark that she now claims to have turned down. At a news conference Tuesday morning in Riverside, Ohio, Obama himself dismissed the latest polling numbers, and predicted that women's votes would shift again in the coming weeks, as they focus on which candidate is more likely to improve the education system, provide better health care and transform the economy. "Ultimately," he said, "those are the issues I think that are going to make the greatest difference in this race."

But just in case they don't, Obama has become increasingly aggressive in challenging the GOP ticket's efforts to co-opt his mantra of change. "You can't just recreate yourself," the Democratic nominee said Monday. "You can't just reinvent yourself. The American people aren't stupid." But if he is going to win over the Wal-Mart moms, Obama is also going to have to make a stronger case for himself.

Talk about tiptoeing around the passive racism there. Basically the gist is Obama's having trouble with this key demographic because he is black and now there's a woman on the GOP ticket. I'm beginning to think McCain's pick while pandering really played to a key demographic that he needs to win. I can't say that I like it though.

Ivhon
09-09-2008, 02:23 PM
Interesting possible news on the Palin front. Washington Post (I know, source is somewhat biased) reports that Palin billed Taxpayers travel and dining expenses for 312 days of her governorship where she was actually staying at home.

Also, the "thanks but no thanks" to the Bridge to Nowhere line is pure BS. Congress backed out of that bill before she did, and she took the money anyway.

Yeah, this woman is a real breath of fresh air.

Gilshalos Sedai
09-09-2008, 02:25 PM
Everything a candidate does in an election race is geared to win. If they could use a sneeze to their advantage, they would.

Davian93
09-09-2008, 02:26 PM
I actually read the full article on the per diem "issues" and its a bunch of BS...she actually charged far less than her predecessor and didn't take per diem for her kids as she was entitled too under Alaska state law. I was ready to jump on it too but it seems like she is actually being unfairly attacked on that issue...<------Yes I actually defended her...how's that for objectivity.

irerancincpkc
09-09-2008, 02:34 PM
Obama knew the racism thing would be hard to overcome, but I don't see it beating him here. He did beat Hillary, a woman on the top of a potential ticket, in the primaries; so if anyone is prepared to defeat a woman, it is his campign; they have had a lot of pratice.

Sinistrum
09-09-2008, 02:57 PM
so if anyone is prepared to defeat a woman, it is his campign; they have had a lot of pratice.

Ok, maybe this is just my subconscious looking for something to laugh about today, but I substitued the word "defeat" for the word "beat" in the above sentence. And then I though to myself Barack Obama must keep his pimp hand strong... :p

Cary Sedai
09-09-2008, 03:18 PM
hehehehehe ~ahem~ bad, Sini :D

I'm trying to think of women I know in that age group. Unfortunately, the ones I can think of are some of the most racist people I've ever met. Oh, not outwardly, but in a sneaky, hypocritical way... :(

That's not to say that means the majority of women in that age group are, just relating my own findings.

Davian93
09-09-2008, 03:19 PM
Ok, maybe this is just my subconscious looking for something to laugh about today, but I substitued the word "defeat" for the word "beat" in the above sentence. And then I though to myself Barack Obama must keep his pimp hand strong... :p

LOL...I so thought about making a comment about that same thing but restrained myself...

Crispin's Crispian
09-09-2008, 04:01 PM
Everything a candidate does in an election race is geared to win. If they could use a sneeze to their advantage, they would.
Hell, so would I.

I love sneezing.

Gilshalos Sedai
09-09-2008, 04:03 PM
Asneeze, son of Achoo.

Davian93
09-09-2008, 04:07 PM
Asneeze, son of Achoo.

~groans~

Cary Sedai
09-09-2008, 04:07 PM
I love sneezing.

Seriously? Cause I do love sneezing and everyone tells me I'm crazy. :)

Crispin's Crispian
09-09-2008, 04:20 PM
Seriously? Cause I do love sneezing and everyone tells me I'm crazy. :)
Yeah, seriously.


But you're still crazy.

Cary Sedai
09-09-2008, 04:31 PM
:p

irerancincpkc
09-09-2008, 04:36 PM
Ok, maybe this is just my subconscious looking for something to laugh about today, but I substitued the word "defeat" for the word "beat" in the above sentence. And then I though to myself Barack Obama must keep his pimp hand strong... :p
:rolleyes:

Terez
09-09-2008, 05:08 PM
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i111/Terez27/Obama.jpg

Sei'taer
09-09-2008, 05:28 PM
How Obama Blew It- Kirsten Powers (http://www.nypost.com/seven/09092008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/how_obama_blew_it_128132.htm). NY Post, I know ok. She is a Dem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirsten_Powers)though according to Wiki.

Also, from Snopes (http://www.snopes.com/politics/palin/bannedbooks.asp). OK, I know what you'll say. "But she asked about it!" But why did she? She never acted on it. Maybe she was going to try to ban some, but maybe she just wondered what the librarian thought...sort of a vetting process. Dunno, but the fact is that she didn't ban any books.

She is pro life and pro contraception (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-sexed6-2008sep06,0,5768481.story). It's been said she opposes contraception, when she said in a campaign debate that she is pro-contraception.

The NY Times had to run a retraction of her support for the Alaska Independence Party, after they found out it wasn't true. Read the correction at the bottom of this artcle. (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/02/us/politics/02vetting.html?_r=1&ref=politics&oref=slogin)

Trooper-gate I already talked about in another thread. What else is going around? I can't keep up with all of it.

EDIT: I forgot about the bridge to nowhere, which Biden and Obama both voted for, then when Senator Cochran asked that it be changed to fund the recovery of NOLA after Katrina, both of them both still voted for it. It's in the voting records. At least she came to her senses in time...flipflop or not.

tworiverswoman
09-09-2008, 05:47 PM
OK -- this is weird -- I was in my boss's car a little bit ago, to make a bank run, and his radio was playing Rush Limbaugh. What's weird is that Rush was hitting the EXACT same list of bullet points in the same order as ST, there...

Something you're not telling us, ST?

Davian93
09-09-2008, 05:54 PM
OK -- this is weird -- I was in my boss's car a little bit ago, to make a bank run, and his radio was playing Rush Limbaugh. What's weird is that Rush was hitting the EXACT same list of bullet points in the same order as ST, there...

Something you're not telling us, ST?

Well first of all you should report your boss for listening to hate speech...;)

oh and FTR, I was quoting "Blazing Saddles" not the faux book cover that Terez posted.

Terez
09-09-2008, 06:33 PM
Something you're not telling us, ST?
That he loves partisan sources? Anyone paying attention has known that for a long time. :p

Sei'taer
09-09-2008, 06:47 PM
That he loves partisan sources? Anyone paying attention has known that for a long time. :p


Not from Limbaugh. I read the article from Powers today and decided to look them up for myself. I listen to Glenn Beck, I don't much care for limbaugh...Something you're not telling us, oh hawaiian chickadee? A closet limbaughnite maybe?

Sei'taer
09-09-2008, 07:06 PM
Also, I don't think I've ever claimed to be anything other than partisan. I have two issues I disagree with conservatives on...other than that I'm as partisan as they come. Just like Ire, Sini, Bryan, Yuri, Snow and a lot of others.

Bryan Blaire
09-09-2008, 07:58 PM
I'm only "partisan" about issues, really, and then, it's based on what I feel and stand for concerning the issues. I don't like either of the parties. I like some of what each of them stands for, but I don't think that either of them has a rat's left testicle worth of adherence to those ideals, and both parties are basically only concerned with saying whatever they need to say to get into power so that they can consolidate more power for their own and their parties' use.

Terez
09-09-2008, 08:13 PM
I don't think I've ever claimed to be anything other than partisan.
Well, that was my point. :p But I was specifically referring to the sources you have a tendency to use for linkage...

Sei'taer
09-09-2008, 08:36 PM
Well, that was my point. :p But I was specifically referring to the sources you have a tendency to use for linkage...


Like the huffington post perhaps?

Terez
09-09-2008, 09:11 PM
Like the huffington post perhaps?
No, I don't think you use that one. :)

tworiverswoman
09-09-2008, 11:35 PM
Hehehe -- I was actually joking that ST might be Rush in disguise... (Don't hit me!)

And the only time I ever hear anything other than light rock is when I'm subjected to other people's radios (or TV).

The main reason I listened is because I had, for a couple of days, been silly enough to believe the "she banned books" crap. http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g7/tworiverswoman/Blush.gif I had used this argument with my neighbor to justify why I didn't like her. Oops. Snopes has put paid to that one, at least.

So, now I either need a new reason, or I need to re-examine my dislike. http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g7/tworiverswoman/axehunt.gif

Birgitte
09-10-2008, 01:00 AM
oh and FTR, I was quoting "Blazing Saddles" not the faux book cover that Terez posted.


I got it, Dav, and I must say, it was hilarious. I love that movie. :lol

Sinistrum
09-10-2008, 01:20 AM
oh and FTR, I was quoting "Blazing Saddles" not the faux book cover that Terez posted.


Um Duh. And for my next impression...Jessie Owens!

Yuri33
09-10-2008, 04:15 AM
...other than that I'm as partisan as they come. Just like Ire, Sini, Bryan, Yuri, Snow and a lot of others.

Can you please explain, using your definition of partisan, how one can take a position on an issue in a nonpartisan way?

Sei'taer
09-10-2008, 07:37 AM
I can't. Everyone is a partisan. It may be issue by issue, but everyone is. I happen to be very partisan on the conservative side...while, from what I've seen, you happen to be partisan on the liberal side.

Makes no difference to me how I feel about a person, i just don't talk politics with the ones who get real upset about the way I think.

irerancincpkc
09-10-2008, 07:44 AM
So, now I either need a new reason, or I need to re-examine my dislike. http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g7/tworiverswoman/axehunt.gif
Do you like Polar Bears? That might give you reason enough...

And I've never claimed to be anything but partisan, so... :D

GonzoTheGreat
09-10-2008, 07:58 AM
The main reason I listened is because I had, for a couple of days, been silly enough to believe the "she banned books" crap. http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g7/tworiverswoman/Blush.gif I had used this argument with my neighbor to justify why I didn't like her. Oops. Snopes has put paid to that one, at least.

Why did she not ban any books?
If it was because she herself was vehemently against banning books, then she had a good reason. Of course, in that case, when might wonder why she would have repeatedly asked for the procedure to be followed in doing something she did not want to do anyway.
If it was because she failed to achieve this purpose because of the resistance of others, then it would seem that banning books in general was not something she was opposed to, just something she failed to do. A failure to achieve her goals is not exactly a ringing endorsement, especially not if that failure is in a case where you are glad she botched it.

And the Snopes article main focus seems on dispelling the myth that she had succeeded in her banishment attempts. They say that she had not banned any books, which seems believable. They say that she had not given a list of books which she wanted to ban. which also seems to be believable. They do not say that the evidence shows she had never wanted to ban any books at all.
Can you please explain, using your definition of partisan, how one can take a position on an issue in a nonpartisan way?All humans are evil, therefor they all have to be exterminated. This means that all human parties have to be eredicated, thus it is non-partisan.

Of course, there's also a rather big flaw in it: it is an entirely logical position, and humans are not logical.

Davian93
09-10-2008, 07:58 AM
Speaking of which there's this great Army cadence that reminds me of Palin:

Way up north where the land is cold
People up there ain't got no gold
Sooooo the way we make our living
Is killing the Baby Seals!

Roast 'em, Toast 'em, Roto Till 'em
Kick em in the head and watch them squeal
That's the way we make our living
Killing the Baby Seals

One night while I was out walking
I saw a baby lying there.
Walked right up and bashed its brains in
I took the body but left its head.
Cause that's the way we make our livin.
Killing the baby seals.


Here's another version I found:

Way up north where the air gets cold

We're running out of money and we're running out of gold

So now I earn my living

Killing the baby seals



You can hit `em with a bat you can hit `em with a brick

You can poke `em in th eye with your eye pokin stick

That's how I earn my living

Killing the baby seals



You can slash `em in the head you can slash `em in the throat

Then throw `em in the back of your fishing boat

That's how I earn my living

Killing the baby seals.

There's more to it but I cant remember the rest.

Gilshalos Sedai
09-10-2008, 08:42 AM
Nice. :rolleyes:

Sei'taer
09-10-2008, 09:27 AM
Partisan 1: a firm adherent to a party, faction, cause, or person
2 a: a member of a body of detached light troops making forays and harassing an enemy b: a member of a guerrilla band operating within enemy lines

Bi-partisan: of, relating to, or involving members of two parties ; specifically : marked by or involving cooperation, agreement, and compromise between two major political parties

nonpartisan: not partisan; especially : free from party affiliation, bias, or designation


I don't like the terms bi-partisan and non-partisan for quite a few reasons. The main one is that if you are being bi-partisan, then you are opposing or compromising your own ideals, which to me, even if I disagree with those ideals, is a bad thing. Take my stance on stem cell research (which I think needs to be done for those that don't know my stance). I can't be for and against it at the same time. So to be bi-partisan you have to go against what you believe. Just my opinion.

Gilshalos Sedai
09-10-2008, 09:34 AM
Bi-partisan also sorta means to me you can't really be FOR stem cell research and pro-life.

Crispin's Crispian
09-10-2008, 11:24 AM
Bi-partisan also sorta means to me you can't really be FOR stem cell research and pro-life.
I only think of bi-partisan in terms of projects or legislation, not in terms of people. A person can't really be bi-partisan, as ST pointed out, but can work on projects with the other party. There are many issues that both parties agree with.

I disagree that everyone is partisan, though. Everyone is biased to some degree or another, but partisan specifically refers to the group with which you identify.

I don't identify with any groups (politically), so I'm really non-partisan. Rather, I pay close attention to all the things I don't like about the parties which is what keeps me "non-affiliated."

Sinistrum
09-10-2008, 11:35 AM
Do you like Polar Bears?

No but I love Polar Bear BBQ! :D

Birgitte
09-10-2008, 12:37 PM
You know, Dav... I was trying to think of why you guys would be chanting that... All I've come up with is that either the Army really doesn't like Navy Seals or they don't like seals the animals.

Davian93
09-10-2008, 12:41 PM
You know, Dav... I was trying to think of why you guys would be chanting that... All I've come up with is that either the Army really doesn't like Navy Seals or they don't like seals the animals.

Both. ;)

Then there's "Sniper Wonderland"

On a hill there is a lady
In her arms there is a baby
I chamber a round
The kid hits the ground
Walkin' in a Sniper Wonderland


etc etc etc

The PC movment never really caught on in the army.

Birgitte
09-10-2008, 12:45 PM
lol... Oh, do I know it. It makes life more interesting for those who know them, though. More entertaining, anyway.



And, not to hijack but, Ihvon will you go look at the Newbie board? I'm pretty sure Spammer is blaspheming the Book of Ihvon. He hates coffee!

irerancincpkc
09-10-2008, 01:37 PM
And, not to hijack but, Ihvon will you go look at the Newbie board? I'm pretty sure Spammer is blaspheming the Book of Ihvon. He hates coffee!
Coffee is a vile substance. It increases your risk of getting ulcers by 72%!

Davian93
09-10-2008, 01:39 PM
~slaps~

Bad Spammer!

Gilshalos Sedai
09-10-2008, 01:39 PM
Whimp.

Brita
09-10-2008, 01:40 PM
But it may increase life expectancy! Overall- thousands of studies (http://men.webmd.com/features/coffee-new-health-food) have shown that coffee is more healthful than harmful. In fact- shame on you for not drinking coffee Spammer- it's the least you can do for you body- sheesh!

~~takes another big swig~~ My preciousssss!

Crispin's Crispian
09-10-2008, 01:42 PM
It increases your risk of getting ulcers by 72%!

So does being a liberal.

irerancincpkc
09-10-2008, 02:38 PM
Hey, yens can drink it all you want, if you want to be digesting such a toxic posion. It will turn your stomach into a stone. :D

Sinistrum
09-10-2008, 02:54 PM
Hey, yens can drink it all you want, if you want to be digesting such a toxic posion. It will turn your stomach into a stone.

As opposed to being a liberal which just turns your brain into mush. :D :p

Ivhon
09-10-2008, 03:27 PM
Yaknow, Spammer....I used to kinda like you.

But now? Dead to me.

Irewho?

Crispin's Crispian
09-10-2008, 03:29 PM
Yaknow, Spammer....I used to kinda like you.

But now? Dead to me.

Irewho?

Whenever I see his name, I think of "irepancake." Am I the only one?

Ivhon
09-10-2008, 03:33 PM
Whenever I see his name, I think of "irepancake." Am I the only one?

I dunno what you're talkin about. :cool:

Terez
09-10-2008, 03:44 PM
Whenever I see his name, I think of "irepancake." Am I the only one?
Yes.

Brita
09-10-2008, 03:57 PM
Whenever I see his name, I think of "irepancake." Am I the only one?

Not until you mentioned it......But now it's all I can see! :D

irerancincpkc
09-10-2008, 06:29 PM
Actually, irewho might be easy for people to handle... :D

But 'pancake'? Are you kidding me? :eek: :D

Look, I'm very people can drink/eat whatever they want; it's their bodies. I was just the Surgeon General Warning Label for today... :)

tworiverswoman
09-10-2008, 07:50 PM
"Irepancake" requires that you have a SERIOUS case of Dyslexia.

Which is not to say that "irerancincpkc" doesn't make my brain melt about five or six letters in. "Spammer" is MUCH simpler.



ETA: ~slaps~

Bad Spammer! Does this qualify as proof that Dav CAN'T be Spammer?

irerancincpkc
09-10-2008, 08:00 PM
YES!!! That is proof. What type of idiot would slap themselves? :D

Bryan Blaire
09-10-2008, 08:02 PM
Birgitte: Or it is a catchy tune you use to march or run to.

I doubt very seriously that any of us in the Army really wanted to do anything that actually put to deed: "Bury me in the leaning rest" or any of the other very odd things we used to "sing" about.

I need to get my cadence book out now. :D

Edit: Spammer, don't dare me to answer questions like that... ;)

Birgitte
09-10-2008, 08:10 PM
I dunno, Bryan. My step-dad used to regularly sing about how his co-workers were his heroes. They may not have actually been his heroes, but making twenty or so people say they were definitely has its upsides. (Imagine some of the reactions... hehehe) Cadences can make sense. It's happened. So I try to rationalize other ones for amusement.

I'm pretty sure I could come up some pretty good reasons for someone to want to be buried in the leaning rest. They might just find it really comfortable. Or maybe they think they'll be coming back as a zombie or some other form of undead and want to be prepared. It's very close to the position that runners begin in. (Note that I didn't say these were normal people.)

Davian93
09-10-2008, 08:21 PM
YES!!! That is proof. What type of idiot would slap themselves? :D

So I have some self-mutilation issues...sue me.

tanaww
09-10-2008, 08:47 PM
I dunno, Bryan. My step-dad used to regularly sing about how his co-workers were his heroes.

Ah yes... some of his best work:

"Sergeant King, you're my hero
pick up your gun and follow me.
11 Bravo infantry

Sergeant Skippy, you're my hero
pick up your laptop and follow me.
25 Mike (and something that rhymes... he's way better than I am at that army crap)..."

It was awesome. 1SG used to watch them go from confused to pissed or amused as appropriate as an entire section of WLC (formerly PLDC) students sang to them as they were marched along by the asshole I'm married to.

ETA: I think my favorite cadences are "Yellow Ribbon", "This is my weapon, this is my gun" or "I used to date a Cadillac". Special prizes awarded to anyone finishing all the words to any of them. There's just something awesome about a well led formation singing just about any cadence really.

"I want to be an Airborne Ranger, living a life of sex and danger..."

"C-130 rolling down the strip...."

Davian93
09-10-2008, 08:58 PM
"747 rollin' down the strip...
Chairborne ranger on a TDY trip"

Davian93
09-10-2008, 09:18 PM
Speaking of Crazy White Women: http://www.lasvegasnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=8973620&nav=menu102_2

So yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and call bullshit on this one, chief.

Cary Sedai
09-10-2008, 09:38 PM
Insane! Those two are insane! Also, stuuuupid! They should have come up with a better plan.

Birgitte
09-10-2008, 11:27 PM
LOL Cary... I'm guessing that isn't what you mean, but it definitely reads like you think they should have planned their kidnapping effort better.

tworiverswoman
09-11-2008, 01:35 AM
It reminds me of the idiot that proved to airport security how stupid they were. Riiiiight. Rather backfired on him, as I recall.


I believe the women were doing what they say they were doing -- proving something was screwed up -- as there's NO WAY a real kidnapper is going to arrange for media coverage when they return the victim.

Gotta love the "cover your ass" speech by the school police:
"There would be no school that would release a first grader on his own if he were ill or anything like that. That wouldn't happen. Parents would be contacted," said CCSD Lt. Ken Young.

Kids do the darnedest things...

irerancincpkc
09-11-2008, 06:47 AM
So I have some self-mutilation issues...sue me.
You're not helping...

Davian93
09-11-2008, 07:26 AM
I believe the women were doing what they say they were doing -- proving something was screwed up -- as there's NO WAY a real kidnapper is going to arrange for media coverage when they return the victim.

Sure they were...I really hope you're not on their jury.

tanaww
09-11-2008, 08:54 AM
Speaking of Crazy White Women: http://www.lasvegasnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=8973620&nav=menu102_2

So yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and call bullshit on this one, chief.

Ah, who doesn't love school security or lack thereof. This was a potentially huge misstep and schools make it every single day. Don't get me wrong these chicks are nuts but I can see trying to prove a point.

Reminds me of a tale from RS and B's youth. They were probably in third grade and first grade or second and 4th... I don't remember. The gist of the tale is that they were in an after school daycare program three days a week and walked to my grandmother's house two days a week. Well, one day they got their days mixed up and instead of walking the 200 yards or so to the daycare they went the other way and walked the three blocks to my grandmother's house. But the daycare never noticed that they hadn't shown up and never notified me or anyone else. By the time I got home, they could have been missing for about an hour and a half! I found out where they were because I'd called my grandmother's house since my aunt was in town. I was livid!

So being the diabolical bitch that I am, I called 1SG to explain the situation and asked him to go to the daycare to pick up the kids. Being the great actor that he is, he walks in looking for the kids and the staff finally freaked out because they realized they weren't there. I removed them from daycare the next day. The bastards even charged me for the supervision of my children when they were, in fact, clueless as to their location. The distance from the school to the daycare was literally half a small city block. No one at the daycare could bother to meet the kids at school for the walk and no one at school gave a shit once they left the door.

Davian93
09-11-2008, 09:04 AM
Don't get me wrong these chicks are nuts but I can see trying to prove a point.

Look at the photos Tana...They Crazy...THEY CRAZY!!!

On 1SG, do RS and B have to call him "Top"?

tanaww
09-11-2008, 09:19 AM
On 1SG, do RS and B have to call him "Top"?

Only when they see him spinning on his head.

StrangePackage
09-11-2008, 10:11 AM
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/184/446446539_78e731d723.jpg

tworiverswoman
09-11-2008, 10:04 PM
That book cover is starting to irritate the crap out of me.

Sure they were...I really hope you're not on their jury. Are you trying to tell me you believe she kidnapped him for vile purposes, then called the media to make sure they filmed her being arrested (probably on charges of humiliating the school police...)???

Every once in a while I wonder about you, Dav... you crazy. CRAZY!

Seeker
09-13-2008, 06:21 PM
Also, from Snopes (http://www.snopes.com/politics/palin/bannedbooks.asp). OK, I know what you'll say. "But she asked about it!" But why did she? She never acted on it. Maybe she was going to try to ban some, but maybe she just wondered what the librarian thought...sort of a vetting process. Dunno, but the fact is that she didn't ban any books.


Taer, what do you make of this part of the article?

Taylor Griffin, a spokesperson for the McCain campaign, said that Palin asked the head librarian, Marry Ellen Emmons, on three occasions how she would react to attempts at banning books. He said the questions, in the fall of 1996, were hypothetical and entirely appropriate. He said a patron had wanted to remove a title the year before and the Mayor wanted to understand how such deputes were handled.

Records on the city's website, however, do not show any books were challenged in Wasilla in the 10 years before Palin took office.

Palin notified Emmons she would be fired in January of 1997 because the Mayor didn't feel she had the librarian's “full support.” Emmons was reinstated the next day after public outcry, according to news paper reports at the time.

It's true, Palin did not ban any books, but this little ditty at the very end of the article paints two very creepy pictures.

1) Either Taylor Griffin, McCain spokesperson didn't know what he was talking about or he lied for Palin.

2) She fired a librarian for not having the librarian's "support?"

Isn't that creepy in and of itself?

Davian93
09-13-2008, 09:50 PM
That book cover is starting to irritate the crap out of me.

Are you trying to tell me you believe she kidnapped him for vile purposes, then called the media to make sure they filmed her being arrested (probably on charges of humiliating the school police...)???

Every once in a while I wonder about you, Dav... you crazy. CRAZY!


Nah...I just think they're nuts...I doubt they were "testing" anything. They just like attention.

Sei'taer
09-14-2008, 02:28 AM
Taer, what do you make of this part of the article?



It's true, Palin did not ban any books, but this little ditty at the very end of the article paints two very creepy pictures.

1) Either Taylor Griffin, McCain spokesperson didn't know what he was talking about or he lied for Palin.

2) She fired a librarian for not having the librarian's "support?"

Isn't that creepy in and of itself?


not really. Let's just look at a couple of things.

McCain actually limited free speech with McCain-Feingold (and many other things I don't agree with the list is too long to go down).

Biden voted no on Social Security Lockbox & limiting national debt (and many other things I don't agree with the list is too long to go down).

Obama voted to to teach kindergarteners sex education(and many other things I don't agree with the list is too long to go down).

Palin inquired about the process for banning books, but didn't act on it. (And probably other things I don't agree with, but I haven't found many yet)

Now, is it an issue? As an avid reader and a free speech guy, you bet your ass it is. I'm willing to see what comes of it though. Trust me, as October comes things will get hairy for both campaigns. There will be quite a few surprises this year though. I still haven't made up my mind about voting for the McCain ticket because the thought of him in the white house still turns my stomach. I'm sitting the fence and waiting to see what happens in the next few weeks.

Ivhon
09-14-2008, 03:15 AM
not really. Let's just look at a couple of things.

McCain actually limited free speech with McCain-Feingold (and many other things I don't agree with the list is too long to go down).

Biden voted no on Social Security Lockbox & limiting national debt (and many other things I don't agree with the list is too long to go down).

Obama voted to to teach kindergarteners sex education(and many other things I don't agree with the list is too long to go down).

Palin inquired about the process for banning books, but didn't act on it. (And probably other things I don't agree with, but I haven't found many yet)

Now, is it an issue? As an avid reader and a free speech guy, you bet your ass it is. I'm willing to see what comes of it though. Trust me, as October comes things will get hairy for both campaigns. There will be quite a few surprises this year though. I still haven't made up my mind about voting for the McCain ticket because the thought of him in the white house still turns my stomach. I'm sitting the fence and waiting to see what happens in the next few weeks.

The Obama voting to teach sex education is a misdirection bordering on lie. He voted to educate children on how to avoid sexual predators, which has been twisted into sex education in only the way that a Republican campaign can.

Infidel
09-14-2008, 09:43 AM
You can put lipstick on a female pitbull, but at the end of the day, it's still a bitch.

Sei'taer
09-14-2008, 10:27 AM
The Obama voting to teach sex education is a misdirection bordering on lie. He voted to educate children on how to avoid sexual predators, which has been twisted into sex education in only the way that a Republican campaign can.

Ok, well, then take his vote on abortion, or take his vote on the bridge to nowhere...it doesn't really matter which one you use...hell go look up his voting record and there are good and bad just like with the other three. Thats my point really. She asked about it....the other three actually voted for these things.

Ivhon
09-14-2008, 10:32 AM
On the sex education for kindergartners smear. Think, people. Are you really so desperate to view the man as a demon that you believe that a skilled politician with two young daughters actually thinks it appropriate that 5 year olds be taught a full sex ed class? Do you believe anything that is spoonfed to you by a politician?

The McCain campaign has completely lost touch with reality. Factcheck.org has over twice as many incidents of the McCain campaign misrepresenting facts as the Obama campaign does and in much more exaggerated fashion. They even had to report how the McCain camp misrepresented Factcheck.org.

These guys are dirty dirty do anything to get elected liars who have NO stance on any issue. All they can do is smear and gimmick.

Ivhon
09-14-2008, 10:36 AM
Ok, well, then take his vote on abortion, or take his vote on the bridge to nowhere...it doesn't really matter which one you use...hell go look up his voting record and there are good and bad just like with the other three. Thats my point really. She asked about it....the other three actually voted for these things.


Ok. Im fine with checking votes. That is responsible self-education.

And yes, all three have votes that I disagree with. The only candidate that could possibly have a voting record that I 100% agree with is Ivhon for King.

Palin DID try to do something about the bookbanning. She fired the librarian and only reinstated her because she outraged Wasilla by firing her.

Palin ONLY questioned the bridge to nowhere when it became clear that it was becoming a scandal. She did keep the earmarks for other projects. For someone supposedly so rabidly anit-earmark and "reformer," she has a LOT of inconsistencies/hypocrisies on that count.

Cary Sedai
09-14-2008, 10:55 AM
Nah...I just think they're nuts...I doubt they were "testing" anything. They just like attention.

I think the crazy ladies did it for attention and used the excuse of "testing" to cover thier asses.

Oh, and B, no I didn't mean it exactly the way it sounded. If they were really trying to show how lacks school security is, they should have called the media as soon as they saw the boy, then just watched him and pointed him out to the media when they arrived. But, these crazy ladies, didn't really care about that. The wanted to be heroes, with out the work.

The pic of the second crazy, with that "smug-I-showed-you" look, is not my idea of a hero. Now, if she were smart, she would have at least shown false humility...

They DID kidnap the boy, regardless of thier reasons, they should be punished.

Sei'taer
09-14-2008, 11:31 AM
Ok. Im fine with checking votes. That is responsible self-education.

And yes, all three have votes that I disagree with. The only candidate that could possibly have a voting record that I 100% agree with is Ivhon for King.

Palin DID try to do something about the bookbanning. She fired the librarian and only reinstated her because she outraged Wasilla by firing her.

Palin ONLY questioned the bridge to nowhere when it became clear that it was becoming a scandal. She did keep the earmarks for other projects. For someone supposedly so rabidly anit-earmark and "reformer," she has a LOT of inconsistencies/hypocrisies on that count.

Y'know, I think a better way to go about this would be to say, is Joe Biden a racist for the remarks about Obama and the remarks about Indians and 7-11 stores? Is Obama a muslim for the 57 state comment, or the comment in the Stephanopolous interview when he said "My muslim faith?" Or was McCain telling a lie when he talked about meeting the christian in the POW camp in Vietnam? Did Biden mean it when he said Hillary would be a better vice than him, was Obama seriously involved with Bill Ayers, and on and on and on. Did McCain have sex with a lobbyist? Did Palin try to ban books? Did Palin fire a trooper illegally?

We can't know these peoples inner thoughts, but I don't think Biden is a racist, I happen to think his mouth gets the better of him a lot and he can't stop it from working, I don't think Obama is a muslim and I think McCain is sincere about what happened to him in Vietnam. I think Palin was asking a question and I think in october we'll find out what happened with the trooper. Until then we don't know, and on the other things, we will probably never know.

Frenzy
09-14-2008, 12:01 PM
UNCLE!!!!!!! ~hands Uncle a brew~

i have to admit i'm finally paying attention to the race, and i really don't like what i see. Obviously no candidate is going to be 100% perfect for me, but it'd be nice if one candidate was at least palatable. i have to decide which of my 'make or break' issues to ignore, in exchange for which of my 'i really want that to happen' policies to be enacted. Assuming they even will...

In other words, which parts of my soul do i sell to get what i want. Gotta love politics.

One of the things i'm most concerned about is the Supreme Court. There's a very good chance that Stevens, Ginsberg & Kennedy will retire, and Breyer isn't getting any younger either. That would be a HUGE shift in how the Constitution is interpreted.

Seeker
09-14-2008, 04:51 PM
Palin inquired about the process for banning books, but didn't act on it. (And probably other things I don't agree with, but I haven't found many yet)

Now, is it an issue? As an avid reader and a free speech guy, you bet your ass it is. I'm willing to see what comes of it though. Trust me, as October comes things will get hairy for both campaigns. There will be quite a few surprises this year though. I still haven't made up my mind about voting for the McCain ticket because the thought of him in the white house still turns my stomach. I'm sitting the fence and waiting to see what happens in the next few weeks.

I'm not talking about the inquiry as to book removal procedures, that's neither here nor there. I'm talking about firing a librarian for "not supporting the Mayor."

That and the fact that, according to the article you posted, the statement made by Griffin - a McCain spokesman - regarding a citizen who challeged a book in the Wasilla library was contradicted by the evidence.

Meaning that Griffiin, the spokesperson, either speculated or lied when he addressed that issue.

Sei'taer
09-14-2008, 09:09 PM
I'm not talking about the inquiry as to book removal procedures, that's neither here nor there. I'm talking about firing a librarian for "not supporting the Mayor."

As someone who weathered a storm of a new mayor in the city I work for (when her admin started, she fired over 100 employees, the city administrator and both of his assistants) that doesn't bother me at all. Thats what happens in small town gov't. When you don't like how the last admin was doing things, you get rid of the chaff and remake things the way you want them to be. So, as far as the firing goes, I could care less. I think if it had been me, when I fired her she, probably would have stayed fired regardless of public outcry.

Meaning that Griffiin, the spokesperson, either speculated or lied when he addressed that issue.

yes, probably so or maybe he was telling the truth but like I said earlier, we'll more than likely never know.

Seeker
09-15-2008, 01:40 AM
As someone who weathered a storm of a new mayor in the city I work for (when her admin started, she fired over 100 employees, the city administrator and both of his assistants) that doesn't bother me at all. Thats what happens in small town gov't. When you don't like how the last admin was doing things, you get rid of the chaff and remake things the way you want them to be. So, as far as the firing goes, I could care less. I think if it had been me, when I fired her she, probably would have stayed fired regardless of public outcry.

One fires an employee when one can cite a specific infraction of the code of conduct for that job, either of sufficient magnitude or sufficient repitition. One cannot fire base on personal dislike.

Moreover, the employer must show specific documentation of the employee's infraction or be sued under wrongful dismissal.

The fact that the librarian was reinstated proves no such documentation exists.

But, I also work under a different legal framework than you do.

Yuri33
09-15-2008, 02:17 AM
One of the things i'm most concerned about is the Supreme Court. There's a very good chance that Stevens, Ginsberg & Kennedy will retire, and Breyer isn't getting any younger either. That would be a HUGE shift in how the Constitution is interpreted.

This is the biggest issue that gets absolutely no coverage. The conservative interpretation of the law is now represented by a solid 4-person block on the Supreme Court, with each of those members having at least 10 years left. Kennedy (a moderate conservative) has had to drift to the left to provide the balance that O'Conner provided before she retired. With a single nomination, a McCain administration will create a long-lasting conservative majority that can and will overturn several long-established decisions.

For decades, Republican leaders have rallied the conservative base on the issue of judicial nominations. It's time that liberals start feeling the heat, and rally around the judicial issue as well.

Ozymandias
09-15-2008, 06:28 AM
This is the biggest issue that gets absolutely no coverage. The conservative interpretation of the law is now represented by a solid 4-person block on the Supreme Court, with each of those members having at least 10 years left. Kennedy (a moderate conservative) has had to drift to the left to provide the balance that O'Conner provided before she retired. With a single nomination, a McCain administration will create a long-lasting conservative majority that can and will overturn several long-established decisions.

Thats the way the judiciary works. Those long established decisions aren't immutable; they were formed by a liberal judiciary, the same as a new law will be formed or interpreted by a conservative one. There is nothing inherently wrong with that.

Its another example of Democrats taking the high road. The stupid, naive, road, but the high one. The judiciary is supposed to be the monitoring influence, the one with no political affiliation that isn't beholden to the masses. By introducing appointments as a way to motivate voters, your inherently disowning the system and making the Supreme Court a pawn of the other two branches of Congress.

Its sad but true. Its hilariously ironic that people like Justice Scalia are pushing for a literal interpretation of the Constitution when their idealogical allies sit on the Court in direct contradiction to that very system, and much more openly so than most questions of Constitutional law.

Davian93
09-15-2008, 07:49 AM
One fires an employee when one can cite a specific infraction of the code of conduct for that job, either of sufficient magnitude or sufficient repitition. One cannot fire base on personal dislike.


Sure they can. It's called "at-will" employment and many U.S states allow it. All probably. You dont need a reason to fire someone. The only caveat is it can't be based on something illegal like "I fired him because he's black" or "I fired her because she's a lesbian". Unless the individual is a member of a protectd group like that AND you fire them because of that specificness (race, age, gender, orientation, etc), you can't do a thing about it.

Sei'taer
09-15-2008, 09:14 AM
Sure they can. It's called "at-will" employment and many U.S states allow it. All probably. You dont need a reason to fire someone. The only caveat is it can't be based on something illegal like "I fired him because he's black" or "I fired her because she's a lesbian". Unless the individual is a member of a protectd group like that AND you fire them because of that specificness (race, age, gender, orientation, etc), you can't do a thing about it.


Thanks Dav. I was going to make almost this exact post. Tennessee is an "at-will" state, and from what I can find, Alaska is too.

Sei'taer
09-15-2008, 09:19 AM
Moreover, the employer must show specific documentation of the employee's infraction or be sued under wrongful dismissal.

A few years before I started here, they got a new mayor. He came into office on the first day and fired the city administrator, went to a council meeting and put forward a bill for an assistant mayor. It passed and the next month they picked an assistant mayor at the meeting. The next morning he resigned as mayor. He told the papers all he wanted to do was get rid of that particular city administrator and he was done. His total time with the city was about 3 months.

Davian93
09-15-2008, 09:22 AM
A few years before I started here, they got a new mayor. He came into office on the first day and fired the city administrator, went to a council meeting and put forward a bill for an assistant mayor. It passed and the next month they picked an assistant mayor at the meeting. The next morning he resigned as mayor. He told the papers all he wanted to do was get rid of that particular city administrator and he was done. His total time with the city was about 3 months.

That's awesome.

Sei'taer
09-15-2008, 09:27 AM
That's awesome.

Yeah, he was kind of a weird guy. A couple of years ago he celebrated his 50th birthday by swimming solo across the mississippi river. He nearly drowned because he "didn't know the river was that strong and it really didn't look that far." He was thinking maybe he should have practiced a little bit.