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Lost One
01-16-2013, 01:31 PM
Since this the opening line of the thread I will blah blah blah blah blah.


Yada yada yada yada.. ineepso adentum enfinious.... Al Alora eh Venya ad asnaato

Is that enough?? The Voices don't like it when I speak the Language in public.

Was anyone dissapointed in what happened to Shaidar.. All these years I had visions of him being the target of one of our three swordsmen; Gawyn, Galad, or Lan. They seemed to be the same level of character (secondary)as well as matched. I never saw the three fighting a Chosen.

But then as important as Shaidar seems.. he just gets popped like an unwanted balloon after a birthday party.

mogi67
01-16-2013, 01:37 PM
I suspect that any one of them who challenged Shaidar Haran to a duel would have gotten rolled.

ShadowbaneX
01-16-2013, 01:38 PM
I wanted to see Perrin & the wolves vs the Super Fade, but yeah, that wasn't to be. I guess his essence was subsumed diverted into Moridin. It seems that a lot of the developing threads, Shadar Haran & Fain come to mind, were just dropped in favour of other things.

Crispin's Crispian
01-16-2013, 01:38 PM
Since this the opening line of the thread I will blah blah blah blah blah.


Yada yada yada yada.. ineepso adentum enfinious.... Al Alora eh Venya ad asnaato

Is that enough?? The Voices don't like it when I speak the Language in public.

Was anyone dissapointed in what happened to Shaidar.. All these years I had visions of him being the target of one of our three swordsmen; Gawyn, Galad, or Lan. They seemed to be the same level of character (secondary)as well as matched. I never saw the three fighting a Chosen.

But then as important as Shaidar seems.. he just gets popped like an unwanted balloon after a birthday party.
I get what you're saying, but I think it fits well. He had pointed out on a few occasions that his name should be taken as literally as possible, so he would have been redundant at this point.

Honestly, I never thought he'd be good target for a swordsman. He seemed almost invincible, really.

But...yes, it would have been nice to see him do some more stuff.

Lost One
01-16-2013, 04:32 PM
But it was still a scene/fight that I was looking forward to. Again, so much had been made of G & G and thier abilities, as well as Lan's. But again, we had been introduced to some of the other warders and they seemed destined for a greater role. Sleet, for example, it would have been a good fight, or Uno. I think SH in a duel would have been awesome.

eht slat meit
01-16-2013, 05:32 PM
I never really saw the point of SH other than to give us some insight into the thoughts of the DO itself. As such, being the DO's avatar, there's really no appropriate opponent for SuperFade other than Rand, because that's Rand's tailor-made fight. No point in a backstory, because it's just a jumped up Fade after all, and the rest of the character is all DO.

With everything else he had to deal with, I'm not terribly disappointed that SH was really nothing more than a discarded sock puppet.

Morsker
01-16-2013, 09:10 PM
The only thing that bugged me was that Shaidar Haran evolved into a boring wall of darkness (and time dilation). I always liked the imagery of the Pit of Doom, and its impossible sky, and was looking forward to seeing Rand's reaction to it.

Fourth Age Historian
01-20-2013, 06:32 PM
I used to wonder if SH had been constructed using the souls of one of the Chosen that the DO chose not to reanimate, but I don't think the timing works except for Asmodean, which doesn't make a on of sense.

Dom
01-21-2013, 05:30 AM
I've no problem at all with Shaidar Haran's last purpose being to illustrate what the DO is, nothingness, during the Pit scenes. It's very fitting, and I never really expected SH would get into any duel. He can stop any channeler and no non-channeler would even get close. Killing him was pointless, since it was always just a physical vessel for a little bit of the DO, a way RJ came up with to have the DO roam around a bit and interfere with the Chosen once in a while, from the mid-series to the end.

There was the chance Fain and him would destroy each other, Cleansing-style, but Brandon reminding us Fain's parallel to Gollum missed the point (many never saw beyond his few Tolkien touches in the early series, missing how different the themes and characters actually were) had ruled that out.

What I have problems with is that I'm still baffled by the fact Brandon chose to have Shaidar Haran cast his physical husk off-screen when it would have been far more impressive and meaningful to have Rand first see this too tall Myrddraal standing near the Pit of Doom, wondering what the heck is that ... then SH casts its husk (maybe even speaking a line to Rand first, making him realize it's the Dark One) and becomes this Nothingness that absorbs all the Pit. Rand is taken aback and Moridin steps out in front of the wall of nothingness and tells Rand his "my master doesn't need the physical vessel anymore".

On first read, Brandon's scene as written made me feel like I took a bathroom break at the wrong time and missed the beginning of a very important scene. Frustrating. Something visually impressive in the vein of the scene with Mesaana/Alviarin when SH discarded his armor (and that was foreshadowing, it turns out) but even more ominous/momentous would have been far more satisfying than this whole "sorry guys, I brought you there too late and you've missed it" gimmick Brandon gave us.

GonzoTheGreat
01-21-2013, 06:10 AM
Having SH wait until Rand showed up would give the initiative for the timing to the Light, which is not what the Shadow wants to do if it can be avoided. This way, if Rand doesn't get there in time, there is a possibility that the DO could have broken free on his own, which shows that some urgency was actually called for.

Dom
01-21-2013, 06:21 AM
Having SH wait until Rand showed up would give the initiative for the timing to the Light, which is not what the Shadow wants to do if it can be avoided. This way, if Rand doesn't get there in time, there is a possibility that the DO could have broken free on his own, which shows that some urgency was actually called for.

With Moridin waiting there for Rand with Alanna, I frankly don't see the point beside making the scene lame.

Terez
01-21-2013, 10:49 AM
I've no problem at all with Shaidar Haran's last purpose being to illustrate what the DO is, nothingness, during the Pit scenes. It's very fitting, and I never really expected SH would get into any duel. He can stop any channeler and no non-channeler would even get close.
Fain could!

There was the chance Fain and him would destroy each other, Cleansing-style, but Brandon reminding us Fain's parallel to Gollum missed the point (many never saw beyond his few Tolkien touches in the early series, missing how different the themes and characters actually were) had ruled that out.I don't know if it had ruled it out, but it couldn't have been anything more than a distraction while Rand did his thing.

But then, I was happy enough with Fain's ending and Shaidar Haran's; once Shaidar Haran I knew Fain wouldn't do anything resembling importance, since that was the only possible role for him to play.

mogi67
01-21-2013, 11:12 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there an actual lake of fire in the middle of the pit of doom? It seemed to me like Rand and co didn't even make it all the way down out of the passage with the DO's teeth. I was a bit disappointed by that. It would have been cool if they ended up in that place in TAR with the impossible clouds and the horror-fireplace. I guess that place might one of Ishy's dreamshards...but I just assumed that there would be fighting or a showdown there for some reason.

Terez
01-21-2013, 11:22 AM
MOGHEDIEN DID NOT APPROVE OF MY FIERY LAVA TOILET, SO I REDECORATED. HOW DO YOU LIKE IT?

Demon
01-21-2013, 12:57 PM
^Haha. Made me laugh.

Terez
01-21-2013, 01:35 PM
source (http://pop.wheeloftime.org/index.php/topic,635.msg4692.html?PHPSESSID=120724f926b338948 22c44058275a185#msg4692)

Dom
01-21-2013, 02:42 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there an actual lake of fire in the middle of the pit of doom?

It's part of what Shaidar Haran absorbed into nothingness.

Rand noticed the pit itself was gone.

Davian93
01-21-2013, 03:16 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there an actual lake of fire in the middle of the pit of doom? It seemed to me like Rand and co didn't even make it all the way down out of the passage with the DO's teeth. I was a bit disappointed by that. It would have been cool if they ended up in that place in TAR with the impossible clouds and the horror-fireplace. I guess that place might one of Ishy's dreamshards...but I just assumed that there would be fighting or a showdown there for some reason.

Yes, its where the bad folk go when they die because they dont go to Heaven where the Angles fly.


Though odds are you'll see them again on the 4th of July.

Enigma
01-21-2013, 04:26 PM
The only thing that bugged me was that Shaidar Haran evolved into a boring wall of darkness (and time dilation). I always liked the imagery of the Pit of Doom, and its impossible sky, and was looking forward to seeing Rand's reaction to it.

Given that Rand has LTT's memories he may alreayd have seen it from the Sealing. We don't know exactly how far down LTT & co got but I gather it was only in the pit itself that the bore could be senses so presumably thats the point the seals had to be set.

Still might have been nice for Rand to look around see the lake of fire gone and say something like, "I see you redecorated."