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mogi67
01-16-2013, 02:51 PM
Did we ever find out what this was? The bit with the dead tinkers and the message?

Terez
01-16-2013, 03:07 PM
Nope, though some have theorized since TOM it was red-veils. Which makes sense. I always thought Darkfriend Aiel were likely; Aiel don't like Tinkers, and Darkfriend Aiel would be more likely to actually kill them, red-veils even more so.

Sinistrum
01-16-2013, 05:13 PM
Nope, though some have theorized since TOM it was red-veils. Which makes sense. I always thought Darkfriend Aiel were likely; Aiel don't like Tinkers, and Darkfriend Aiel would be more likely to actually kill them, red-veils even more so.

As good a theory as any I've seen. I mean that discovery was followed up with a presumedly DF Aiel attempt to assassinate Mat, right?

Terez
01-16-2013, 05:14 PM
Yes, but they weren't wearing red veils.

kasper11
01-17-2013, 09:34 AM
Nope, though some have theorized since TOM it was red-veils. Which makes sense. I always thought Darkfriend Aiel were likely; Aiel don't like Tinkers, and Darkfriend Aiel would be more likely to actually kill them, red-veils even more so.

But how would the tinkers have known about the red-veils? As far as I know, the red-veils stayed deep in the blight where no tinkers would have gone.

Terez
01-17-2013, 09:38 AM
But how would the tinkers have known about the red-veils?
I don't think anyone suggested they knew anything about them before they showed up with their knives.

Dom
01-17-2013, 10:35 AM
I always thought they were the victims of one band, strays or not, of Carridin's bandit-for-hire fake Dragonsworn, one that probably strayed quite out of area Niall had ordered to target.

Carridin hates Tinkers, it's established in TGH, and slaughtering a whole caravan of them would fit his mission. Not that he necessarily give specific orders to slaughter any, his bandits with a few WC were looking for easy preys. People don't like Tinkers, but their senseless murders would horrify and terrorize travelers who didn't have guards. Niall wanted to spark popular outrage against the depraved Dragonsworn through the countryside so the Children could get involved as the people's saviors. He knew Ebou Dar didn't have the resources to act, that as the problem increased Tylin would have no choice to accept his help, and end up another Ailron. It was also a clever way to spin the whole Masema chaos north of Amadicia. Niall meant to end it (after he cleverly let it fester enough), deal with that first before moving his attention east, where he had created a similar problem, this time a wholly engineered one.

Dying Tinkers tried to write "Tell the Dragon Reborn Dragonsworn did this", IMO.

The theories it involved the Shadow no longer really make sense, most of them rested on speculation the Tinkers did have something to tell Rand, or that a Forsaken had foreseen some importance to the Tinkers etc.

None of that has materialized - the Tinkers's ways helped Rand a bit toward his epiphany, and the whole matter of Singing was a big red herring as far as Tinkers are concerned. It was all exposition to tie Aiel Blood to Singing/the Voice and thus explain the triple aspects of Rand (Channeling for the DR, Aiel Singing for the Car'a'carn, and his ability with the DO's Storm are thematically linked to the Coramoor). The resolution that the Coramoor was to hold back for the world the Father of Storms and the SF were meant to help him with the Bowl of Winds was overall poorly executed through the finale, leaving us to deduce all this from the series's themes without explicit exposition. Disappointing a bit, but it's still there.

SamJ
01-17-2013, 11:48 AM
I had also come to the conclusion it was Carridin or his agents as part of his overall dragonsworn/provocation strategy. This was after I asked Brandon about it when he was in London last year and he didn't recall the answer - so I figured it wasn't relevant to the last book! My only disquiet is whether the geography works as I think it might be a bit far out for Carridin's bands...

Dom
01-17-2013, 12:09 PM
I had also come to the conclusion it was Carridin or his agents as part of his overall dragonsworn/provocation strategy. This was after I asked Brandon about it when he was in London last year and he didn't recall the answer - so I figured it wasn't relevant to the last book! My only disquiet is whether the geography works as I think it might be a bit far out for Carridin's bands...

In my original theory I've suggested it might be a side effect of Carridin's campaign - emulation. Much like Masema's actions have sparked all sort of unsavoury types/brigands to become "Dragonsworn". There's never any lack of Coplin/Congar types who as they heard rumors of Carridin's campaign would have started to roam around and took on themselves to also rid the world of the "undesirable". I think it's something like this which happened, that or a band hired by Carridin that strayed out of its way.

I think RJ's point was to show it was spreading and getting out of control. It was always sort of obvious, to me anyway, that this was somehow linked to the whole corrupted/evil dragonsworn phenomenon in the south. Carridin's campaign was taking place much closer, so I find it more likely that rumors of Masema or rumors of Almoth Plain sparked this, but despite having different motivations and different players behind those events, they're still all part of the same amplifying phenomenon.

kabkaba
01-17-2013, 02:50 PM
I think it has to do with the same warnings that Rand and co receive in TEOTW that Baalzamon is going to blind the eye of the world and use that power to free the DO. They just appear in later books as not all Tinkers are supposed to know that Rand took care of that.