View Full Version : Mat and Talmanes

Lost One
01-25-2013, 07:44 PM
I realize that some do not like BS's variant of Mat, I do. I enjoyed his growing whimiscal attitude, which I truely saw as his growing desperation at his plight. He did not want to be a leader, now was stuck with the Band. He did not want to be a noble, but is increasingly mistaken and therefore has to act like a Lord, then finally not only becomes one, but the consort to an empress. In this, it is not even a lightly reigning government like Andor, but an extremely rigid one. He did not (or at least he claims) that he did not want to get married, but now he is. It is the irony of all of this that increases his dark whimsy.

I really liked the conversations on this with Talmanes such as "I am not going to stop gambling, going to taverns," ect..

And I loved how Talmanes finally got his own.. I guess pov is the correct term. I really enjoyed his part in AMoL.

Fourth Age Historian
01-25-2013, 08:00 PM
Talmanes! I freaking loved his scenes in this book as well.

With Mat, it isn't that I don't like Brandon Sanderson's Mat. BS's Mat is a perfectly fun character. The problem is that he isn't the same character. Even if you think Sanderson's Mat is superior to Jordan's Mat, it doesn't really work to change a character so drastically, without an in-story reason (and it would take a heck of an event) after 11 books (well, ten since he was absent from one of them).

I'm more or less a Sanderson apologist; I liked all three of his books in WoT a lot. But I don't think he got Mat right.

Rand al'Fain
01-25-2013, 10:50 PM
I liked the Sanderson Mat, but do agree he was not the same as Jordan's Mat.

But Talmanes was awesome, wouldn't have minded another POV or two from him, but still a good read to get to know Mat's 2nd in Command.

01-25-2013, 11:19 PM
That's my biggest qualm. Sanderson's Mat would be fine in other books, but it's WoTs Mat and his Mat doesn't fit.
Same thing with Rand and Mats pissing contest. I enjoyed it objectively, but that scene suited neither of those characters.

01-26-2013, 05:58 PM
I think he went from one extreme to the other.

He was off in TGS
Mat in ToM was rightish
He became a bit of a parody in aMoL

All told, he was above expectations

01-26-2013, 06:06 PM
RJ wrote the Ghenji scenes...which is why Mat seemed a bit more normal in ToM.

01-26-2013, 09:36 PM
I think he went from one extreme to the other.

He was off in TGS
Mat in ToM was rightish
He became a bit of a parody in aMoL

All told, he was above expectations

You have to take into account that Mat in those books is part of the Seanchan. The Seanchan are basically opposite of what Mat truly is. I think to be able to cope with the difference, he becomes a kinda crazy/extremely version of himself, especially in the last book.

Lost One
01-27-2013, 07:53 AM
I enjoyed that little scene between Rand and Mat. I think that for the most part, most everyone did, even though it does feel off. The reason it does so I think (other that the two different authors) is that through out the series, we see very little humor (or as you Brits put it, humour). I mean we hear tell of Mat's past pranks, but the only two pranks we see is in tEotW with him knocking out the stave, making the barrels role and the WhiteCloaks get muddy, and then in TGS where he meets Perrin and actually has a badger in a sack. I think that if we had seen some other scenes whith the byplay between them, it would have blended in better.

01-28-2013, 03:47 AM
And, actually, while we have not seen such bragging contests on screen, it is not at all unrealistic to suppose they might have occurred before the events in the main series, when Rand and Mat were still young and innocent enough to try to upstage each other (and others) with pranks.
Just as Mat caught the badger to refer back to those more innocent times, this too could have been such a case. The only difference is that we just barely saw a badger case on screen (sort of, at least), whereas we didn't see such a bragging encounter.

01-28-2013, 11:43 AM
I'll be honest. I loved every word. It made me stupidly happy.