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Hopper
09-11-2008, 10:29 AM
I just wanted to remember the men and women that gave their lives this day 7 years ago.

tanaww
09-11-2008, 10:33 AM
Thanks for posting this Mr. Vice President. I can't help but think about exactly where I was and what I was doing when I found out about the first attack. The rest of that day is kind of burned in my head too.

When we're in charge, we'll get the day off since no one feels like working anyway.

Cary Sedai
09-11-2008, 10:37 AM
Great Idea, Tana. Could we possibly outlaw Mondays as well?

I was like this :eek: all day, that day, with a some of this :( mixed in

irerancincpkc
09-11-2008, 10:38 AM
Yeah thanks. It's hard to believe it has been seven years. Kind of scary to believe so much time has passed, and there is still so much emotion connected to it. I know I'll be praying for the families of all those who lost someone.

tanaww
09-11-2008, 10:40 AM
Great Idea, Tana. Could we possibly outlaw Mondays as well?

I was like this :eek: all day, that day, with a some of this :( mixed in

As much as I am not a fan of Mondays, they're hardly of the same magnitude. I'm discussion on another board giving up President's Day and Columbus Day and taking 12/7 and 9/11 as National Holidays instead.

Crispin's Crispian
09-11-2008, 11:30 AM
Thanks for posting this Mr. Vice President. I can't help but think about exactly where I was and what I was doing when I found out about the first attack. The rest of that day is kind of burned in my head too.

On that note, I figure I should post this (http://theoryland.yuku.com/topic/9222/t/This-doesn-t-look-good.html)while we still have it. It's unfortunate that so many of the names are gone, now (Unregistered as they are).

John Snow
09-11-2008, 11:50 AM
in the Convention Center Marriott reviewing grant proposals for the NIH. One of the clerks came bursting in to the conference room & told us about it after the first hit. We decided to carry on with our work, and went out & checked the TV broadcasts during our break. By then Verizon had gone down completely; nobody's cell was good for anything other than a paperweight. Shortly thereafter air flights were stopped, and within 15 minutes or so of that every rental car, bus ticket, and train ticket was gone. There were three docs from Omaha in town, and they got clever and rented a Ryder truck. Drove that back to Omaha, where their cleverness suddenly abandoned them, because they remembered that their cars were at the airport. So in their big yellow truck, they drove to the airport on September 13, and immediately found themselves the objects of great interest, including cocked rifles aimed at them.

I decided to wait things out - called home over the noon hour to let the family know all was well. Lovely Daughter was quite upset because a friend's parents had been vacationing in New York and were killed by glass falling from the WTC. I spent the week browsing the Smithsonian and seeing the sights - both the Smithsonian and the subways were open. I went to the National Zoo, up near Grosvener Square, one morning fairly early, and a trainer was working with some sea lions and a walrus or two. There was really no one else around and she explained what she was doing - finally got an understanding of how you get a walrus to 'roll over'. Seems it's a natural behavior anyway, and you just reinforce it.

I went out to Dulles Airport on Friday, and no go - huge lines, waits lasting forever, sleeping overnight in ther terminal. So I made a reservation for the next day, went back to the Marriott (NIH kindly paid for my whole stay), then went again in the morning. Again huge lines, long waits, missed my plane of course but eventually got on one and made it home. To be greeted very happily by my family.

Zaela Sedai
09-11-2008, 11:55 AM
today is rough cause we have to be sad about this and celebrate my Dad's birthday

tanaww
09-11-2008, 12:00 PM
today is rough cause we have to be sad about this and celebrate my Dad's birthday

Yeah. A friend on another message board has a son who celebrated (?) his first birthday on 9/11/01. That would be weird.

How long do you suppose it will be before we're no longer sad on this day?

Gilshalos Sedai
09-11-2008, 12:13 PM
Some are still sad on Pearl Harbor Day.

Davian93
09-11-2008, 12:25 PM
Some are still sad on Pearl Harbor Day.

You know...like the populations of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Booyah!

Gilshalos Sedai
09-11-2008, 12:27 PM
cute

Davian93
09-11-2008, 12:28 PM
cute

~innocently~

What? They had it coming.

Frenzy
09-11-2008, 01:04 PM
the population had it coming? i see you follow the teachings of General Sherman.

i'd be more worried if people DIDN'T feel sad on those fateful days.

Davian93
09-11-2008, 01:16 PM
We saved 1 million U.S. lives (and countless Japanese) by killing 250K Japanese. I'll take that any day of the week and twice on Sunday. The Abomb was much cleaner than a land invasion would have been...oh and they started it.

Brita
09-11-2008, 01:19 PM
But, I can't imagine anyone remembers fondly the picture of the little asian girl sccreaming with her skin peeling off. Terrible days, all of them. Terrible prices to pay.

9/11 had a huge impact on us as well. Our whole day stopped as we were glued to the TV for 12 hours straight. We were horrified. You folks down south mean a lot to us and it hurt us to see you hurt. I mean that sincerely.

John Snow
09-11-2008, 01:28 PM
We saved 1 million U.S. lives (and countless Japanese) by killing 250K Japanese. I'll take that any day of the week and twice on Sunday. The Abomb was much cleaner than a land invasion would have been...oh and they started it.

Although the husband of one of my county maternal-child health workers when I was in Peace Corps in 71-74 was killed in Nagasaki - he was a med student at the time, up on a hill outside town, but contracted leukemia from the radiation. Another war, but my wife's father and his brothers, non-combatants, were nearly killed by american planes strafing the road they were on. Killing the civilians seems to have always been a part of wars, but maybe more so as our capabilities have increased.

Davian93
09-11-2008, 02:02 PM
Although the husband of one of my county maternal-child health workers when I was in Peace Corps in 71-74 was killed in Nagasaki - he was a med student at the time, up on a hill outside town, but contracted leukemia from the radiation. Another war, but my wife's father and his brothers, non-combatants, were nearly killed by american planes strafing the road they were on. Killing the civilians seems to have always been a part of wars, but maybe more so as our capabilities have increased.


I agree its horrible but how do you balance it all? Who honestly has that right?

Davian93
09-11-2008, 02:08 PM
But, I can't imagine anyone remembers fondly the picture of the little asian girl sccreaming with her skin peeling off. Terrible days, all of them. Terrible prices to pay.

9/11 had a huge impact on us as well. Our whole day stopped as we were glued to the TV for 12 hours straight. We were horrified. You folks down south mean a lot to us and it hurt us to see you hurt. I mean that sincerely.


Crazy day that I'll never forget. More so since I was in the Army at the time. We found out during PT (I was in Washington State) when the first plane hit but no one knew it was terrorism at that point...hell we actually were joking about it "How dumb do you gotta be to hit a building, etc etc?" Seems kinda morbid now. Then the 2nd plane hit and things became more real. Our commander interrupted PT and told us to go change into BDUs. I got up to my barracks room, turned on my TV and saw a replay of the 2nd plane crashing. The whole base was put on Threatcon Delta at that point and we went so far as to draw weapons and ammo. We also closed off all the exits to the base with Bradleys and M-1s (we still had an armor brigade on Ft. Lewis back then) and locked down our SCIFs as well. It was scary times to say the least. I, being an intel guy, went into work in full gear (including live chem gear, not training crap) that night and stayed on night shift for 2 straight months, went overseas, then went to Bosnia. and again overseas. It was fun, eh?

I'll never forget that day though. I couldn't begin to remember the 10th or 12th though.

ShadowbaneX
09-11-2008, 02:28 PM
I was sleeping when the first plane hit...and the second...and the other two as well. I was in my 2nd year of university and I had tuesdays off. So needless to say I had stayed up into the wee hours playing games and slept through most of the next day.

My mom called about 7 or 8 times, but I only finally work up at around 2 in the afternoon to this news. Then I remember rampant confused discusson here on TL. It was a horrible day, but when fighting happens on this scale all too often it is the civilians that die and not the soldiers.

There are theories on why you have to attack the civilians and the production of an enemy. It was questionable in all the wars in the 20th century, but it still happened. It was described to me like this: imagine two triangles. Those are two countries. Put them tip to tip (imagine a bow tie), that is war. Those two tips represent the martial side, the soldiers, the tanks, the plans, the fighting side. The rest represents the production and the civilians.

Ramming those two triangles, those two small points, together, won't result in much. The civilians and the governments will be safe and they'll call up more troops to the point to fight each other and the war will keep going on and on, until there's nothing left of either side.

This isn't a good solution, so the idea then becomes to attack the larger parts of the triangle, to attack the civilians and the production. Scare one and render the other incapible of supplying the tip, the armed forces. Render your foe unable to fight and you still win.

The Firebombing of Germany cities, the V2 rockets slamming into London, the utter ruin that was laid on Stalingrad. If armies just fight armies, then all that happens is that soldiers die, more are replaced and the war continues on.

To win a war, or so the theory goes, you have to make your enemy uncapable of fighting back. This involves civilians dying, not just those caught in bomb blasts, or shot by accident along a road, but by those dying in factories as they labour to keep the war machine running.

It sucks, it's horrible...it's war. The alternative is that the war continues on forever and then everyone dies anyway.

Sei'taer
09-11-2008, 03:41 PM
I was on my way to work and the morning show people were talking about a commuter plane that had hit one of the towers. When I got to work i went to the office of one of the engineers, he happened to have a small TV/radio thing. Just as I walked in, Katie Couric was talking and the second plane slammed into the other tower. I had to go out do some work, but I actually spent most of the day listening intently to the radio. I remember them breaking in to announce what had happened to the other 2 planes. It seems surreal now thinking back on it.

SoE had a friend that was killed in the second tower (I think) and drinks a beer or whiskey in his memory every 9/11.

John Snow
09-11-2008, 03:45 PM
Not so sure of your logic, SB - infinite war supposes infinite resources, and even in days of yore people got fed up with perpetual battles. Taxes, young men from the towns lost, resources that could go to other places - And the wars weren't perpetual. Why are Agincourt or (god help us) Bannockburn significant? Or even Waterloo, or Gettysburg?

ShadowbaneX
09-11-2008, 04:42 PM
war with minimal losses can be sustained for a long time. Back a few centuries ago war could, and did, go on for decades, the two points solely meeting in arms.

Then war is changed. Rather then just meeting on the field of battle, you take out their supply lines. You take out their shipping, or their factories. Deny them critical components for building rocket engines, fuel for tanks, or food for soldiers. Make the war so horrible that the enemy doesn't even want to fight, scare them with propaganda. That is war as it evolved last century.

The battles (not wars, but battles) are significant for their own reasons. Agincourt was the introduction of a new weapon, Waterloo was the defeat of Napolean. War as it is today though is all about sapping the enemy's will to fight, for armies are so strong, so powerful that to fully engage in the technological terrors would see the world destroyed. Since we cannot use overwhelming force, we must make the enemy quit the field and the best way to do that is to either make them not want to fight, or unable to fight and the way to do that is to strike at the populus, the innocents, the civilians.

It's disgusting, but it works.

Birgitte
09-11-2008, 05:09 PM
I was in Social Studies class. First class of the day, trying not to fall asleep. Right towards the end, the teacher across the hall runs in and tells my teacher to turn on CNN and we've been attacked. My teacher turns it on and I remember absolute silence as we watched the planes run into the Towers over and over again for the next five minutes. In a middle school class, I'm sure you can appreciate the silence factor.

and Zae: http://skippyslist.com/2008/09/11/with-all-the-remembering-its-easy-to-forget/#more-230

Anaiya Sedai
09-11-2008, 05:19 PM
I can't believe that it has been 7 years. and that I was only 13 when it happened, because even in my mind, the memories still seem fresh.
It was our first day back at school, and everyone was obviously excited.. on my way home, I saw the first breaking news reports at the train station (it was around 3pm in germany). I didn't really understand what had happened, and couldn't quite grasp the scale of it, but I remember thinking that it must be bad.
so I got home, and told my parents that 2 planes had crashed into the WTC. I can still see my mum's face, draining of all blood. my parents put all 3 of our TVs into their office and put them on different news channels, where we watched the whole thing unfold, and then repeat more often than I could count, until late into the night.
One of my best friends, who i've known since we were both about 2 years old was in NYC at the time, but was thankfully safely tucked up in bed when it all started.

I really hope people will never stop being sad on this day that has left such a lasting effect on the world.

I raise my glass in rememberance of all the victims of 9/11, and their families.

Sarevok
09-11-2008, 05:29 PM
I can't believe that it has been 7 years. and that I was only 13 when it happened, because even in my mind, the memories still seem fresh.
Man... you're right! I just realised I must have been only 14 then... :|

Crispin's Crispian
09-11-2008, 05:49 PM
I was finishing my coffee, watching the Today Show, getting ready to go up to my home office. That was the day the Comcast guy was coming over the set up my Internet service, by which I could telecommute to Oregon from Syracuse (NY).

Matt Lauer was interviewing some guy about Michael Jackson when the first plane hit. Oddly enough, it took me a few years to remember what was on the Today Show at that moment--I remembere they didn't seem to have much urgency when they cut over to the WTC.

At first, they thought it was a small plane. I remember they interviewed a guy on the street who was convinced it was a missile, and was certain it wasn't a small plane. That was the first time I realized it might not be an accident.

As I mentioned in that initial thread I posted above, when the second plane I was in total shock. I saw it flying up, but my brain didn't even consider what it could be doing. I thought, "What's that plane doing? It must be a fire fighting plane or something."

Those first hours were just filled with misinformation, panic, and fear. You can see the reactions in that thread.

Oddly enough, Theoryland was my only real communication with the outside world (not counting the cable guy) until my wife got home from work. I didn't even consider calling my family or friends, for some reason...I guess I didn't feel that traumatized at the time.

Terez
09-11-2008, 06:11 PM
Yeah, I didn't feel traumatized either. I was just in shock.

I was driving home from Baton Rouge with my roommate Jay, when our other roommate's dad called us and told us to check the news when we got home. So, we went straight to my mom's, and turned on the TV just in time to see the second plane hit. We were glued to the TV till both main towers had collapsed.

Ozymandias
09-12-2008, 04:31 AM
We saved 1 million U.S. lives (and countless Japanese) by killing 250K Japanese. I'll take that any day of the week and twice on Sunday. The Abomb was much cleaner than a land invasion would have been...oh and they started it.

Debatable. You could say the US started it, or at least pushed them to it, through aggressive economic restrictions following the Japanese occupation of Manchuria.

I was in school, and was let out because my uncle was in the WTC at the time (got out alright, thank god... or had just left... close call, either way, but I forget).

Being a NYer, thats one image I'll never forget. My entire town was on the beach watching that huge column of smoke rise over the Manhattan skyline. We couldn't even see the hole in the skyline from the smoke until like 3 days later.

Gilshalos Sedai
09-12-2008, 08:13 AM
I remember one of the first things I did after they evacced downtown Houston was to call Bryan.

Bryan Blaire
09-12-2008, 08:25 AM
I remember 9/11/01 very clearly, because I was asleep after a long night of school work and then some video gaming. My room-mate, who was still in ROTC after I had dropped out after my second year and changing majors, was getting ready in his uniform to go to school.

I, oddly enough, had been dreaming about a nuclear weapon going off in either downtown New York or Chicago, and when I woke up to him shouting and pounding on my door about someone attacking New York City, I was cursing and was seriously worried that what I had just been dreaming about was actually going on (I didn't have a TV or radio in my room).

We then sat and watched the TV in horror when the second plane hit the second Trade Center tower.

irerancincpkc
09-12-2008, 08:49 AM
I must have been 11 years old that day, and I was home sick, propped up on the couch watching the news. I remember seeing the people on the Today show first mention it, and when I first saw the video of the tower I yelled for my mother. We stayed glued to the TV until they said a plane went down in Shanksville, which isn't that far away from where I live.

Sad day...

Ozymandias
09-13-2008, 02:56 AM
Then war is changed. Rather then just meeting on the field of battle, you take out their supply lines. You take out their shipping, or their factories. Deny them critical components for building rocket engines, fuel for tanks, or food for soldiers. Make the war so horrible that the enemy doesn't even want to fight, scare them with propaganda. That is war as it evolved last century.

It's disgusting, but it works.

Attacking factories and fuel supplies is traditional warfare, though. Thats by definition not attacking civilians. In fact, I think attacking civilians rarely works. Battle of Britain; effect totally backfired. The Germans were winning until they STOPPED attacking military sites and started going after civilians. Look at 9/11. Rather than dissuade the US from intervening in the MIddle East, it spawned two huge invasions and occupations, and numerous other political and diplomatic backlash.

Attacking civilians rarely seems to work. The only time it does is when its such a pervasive and widespread attack that it threatens to wipe out a population all at once; e.g. nuclear weapons, internal genocides like Rwanda, etc. Conventional military forces are incapable of this kind of widespread destruction.

Mort
09-13-2008, 04:22 AM
I just got home from school when my mom told me to come watch the TV. I can't remember if I saw the two planes hit for the first time or if they showed one of the reruns (there were alot of them). I sat through the whole afternoon and evening just listening and checking the internet for information.
I remember a few of the large USA news corporations in the states were more or less down because everyone were trying to access them at the same time.

I was shocked about the whole thing. What got me real mad were when I heard that a footage where arabs where dancing and cheering in the streets - apperently because of what had happened but later turned out that it was all staged by the journalists :mad: How anyone would want to spin something that much is beyond me.

Ozymandias
09-13-2008, 06:13 AM
I was shocked about the whole thing. What got me real mad were when I heard that a footage where arabs where dancing and cheering in the streets - apperently because of what had happened but later turned out that it was all staged by the journalists :mad: How anyone would want to spin something that much is beyond me.

I'm pretty sure the story was the Palestinians were dancing in the streets in the Middle East... which I seem to recall seeing footage of.

Mort
09-13-2008, 07:54 AM
I'm pretty sure the story was the Palestinians were dancing in the streets in the Middle East... which I seem to recall seeing footage of.

yeah it probably was. Stupid journalists.

pops taer
09-13-2008, 05:27 PM
I had just returned from having coffee with my friends and turned on the TV. The first plane had hit and as I was catching up on that the second plane hit. Needless to say it was a horrible situation that was absolutely spellbinding. I remembering thinking that although my Dad had died on March 19, 2001, and I really missed him, I was glad he wasn't here to see this disaster.


I can't help but wonder continuously about man's inhumanity to man as we consider war and the effects of war. It is absolutely sickening!!!!!