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View Full Version : A somewhat gruesome Last Supper. (SPOILERS)


fionwe1987
02-01-2013, 01:59 AM
YADDA YADDA YADDA...











Chapter: To Die Well.

So I was going through random sections of the books, and came across something that I'm not entirely sure of. It could be foreshadowing for the death of Egwene and Gawyn, but some of it is fairly gruesome foreshadowing if so.

Rand has sneaked into Elayne's tent. He's waiting for her arrival, going through her plans:

Rand rifled through the pile of maps, notes and reports. He stood with his arm folded behind his back, a single lamp burning on the desk. Sheathed in glass, the flame danced as breezes eddied through the tent where he stood alone.
Was the flame alive? It ate, it moved on its own. You could smother it,
so in a way, it breathed. What was it to be alive?

This seems fairly straightforward to me. Its almost certainly a foreshadowing of Egwene's death, sheathed in glass-like crystal, dead, but helping the world live a little longer. We also have some further clues to another purpose her death will serve:

Here before him was a flame that lived, yet here were also men who
were dead. Now that he could not lead the war himself, he hoped to stay
away from maps such as this one. He knew seeing these preparations would
make him grieve for the soldiers he could not save.
The living flame is lighting reports of dead men, and its adding to his grief, his burden becoming heavier. When the Flame dies, conversation with her brings the wisdom to let go of that grief, lighting the way forward for Rand's battle against the DO.

Now comes the part I can't make up my mind about:

They talked tactics, and evening became night. Servants arrived with dinner, broth and wild boar.

Elayne’s dinner was half-finished—he had been making her speak a great deal.

Rand and Elayne eat boar, Gawyn's symbolic animal. Elayne's meal is only half-finished, and she benefits from Gawyn's death only to the extent that he provides a little distraction for Demandred. On the other hand, Rand gets much greater use from Gawyn's death, though indirectly.

What do you guys think? Stretching things too far, or a real little bit of gruesome foreshadowing?

Another thing: this was a surprisingly decent chapter. Yes, there were some absurd elements, but I felt it did a good job setting up the three major deaths/near-deaths of the book: Rand, Lan and Egwene, who are also the PoVs here. They all die well, or nearly die well, and for all, it means letting go of something. For Lan, it was literally sheathing the sword. Here, Agelmar reminds him of duty being heavier than a mountain. For Egwene, it was a more metaphorical sheathing of the sword, a burial of her hatred for the Seanchan. This is the chapter Egeanin swears fealty to her, and Egwene even asks her:
"You think I m not well protected?” Egwene asked. “You think that I
need another servant?”
As it turns out, she did need one, someone better capable of serving and saving her than her husband.

For Rand, it was letting go of his guilt about the deaths of so many on his behalf, but it was also about having hope for himself. Both are foreshadowed in his conversation with Elayne.

Lost One
02-01-2013, 10:56 AM
It could be foreshadowing. But I admit that I am too short sighted to tell. Good writers, who have notes and everything before they put every thing to pen, might use a subtle scene such as the flame sheathed in glass. One the other hand, it could just be something to help set Rand's mood for the current scene. The same with the Maps. The boar for dinner... I would say that would be reaching for it.. But then again, I chose the screen name Lost One because, in addition to story use, I have come to realize My life is a wreck and I don't know crap, so it fits..

David Selig
02-01-2013, 12:14 PM
Interesting stuff, didn't notice it even when I reread the chapter, partly because I am still shocked Rand and Elayne actually had a nice conversation like two adults.

I agree that the passage about the flame and the glass is a clear foreshadowing. The boar bit seems a bit far-fetched, but it's possible.

fionwe1987
02-01-2013, 12:48 PM
Interesting stuff, didn't notice it even when I reread the chapter, partly because I am still shocked Rand and Elayne actually had a nice conversation like two adults.
I'm not entirely surprised. The two people I expected to look at Rand+LTT and see Rand in were Elayne and Egwene. I forgot Moiraine, and I was not sure she wouldn't initially react like Cadsuane did. But I wasn't surprised by the way Elayne and Rand interacted. In fact, reading it I hoped for more like this, where characters who hadn't seen each other forever sat down with the recognition that both had changed a lot, and went on from there.
I agree that the passage about the flame and the glass is a clear foreshadowing. The boar bit seems a bit far-fetched, but it's possible.
Yeah... its also somewhat troubling foreshadowing if intended. Gawyn was meant to be cannon fodder. Here, his representative is actual fodder. Pretty chilling, if intended, and somewhat GRRM-esque.